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#Post#: 5310--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Gordon Christie Date: May 7, 2020, 2:33 pm
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Not a problem. I'm beginning to wonder slightly about dropbox
and caching but lack the technical skills to investigate this in
any meaningful way. Last night felt very strange as both Andrew
& I were definitely reading a different document though we both
went into dropbox & (we thought) looked at the same 03 May pdf
timestamped 09:40. Bizarre....Andrew hadn't previously opened
the latest version as I'd done the setup & I was pretty sure he
had the more up to date version though I couldn't open it
despite several attempts.
Anyway I like the current version much better:-)). Pity I didn't
write the AAR around it.....doh!
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 5313--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Al Cannamore Date: May 7, 2020, 8:39 pm
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Looks like I should update the playaid in the extension. I'll
get this done asap.
#Post#: 5315--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 8, 2020, 1:43 am
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I suspect that opening files in dropbox to view them might bring
on the caching issues. Perhaps if you downloaded the files and
opened them locally this might not be an issue?
Again, sorry to clump around with my size nine boots. I can be
excessively rude sometimes. The data, particularly on bombing
results and losses, was vital. I think another play with the
rulebook and OOBs that I drop tomorrow will help enormously.
#Post#: 5316--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Al Cannamore Date: May 8, 2020, 2:17 am
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The extension (draft 03) has the May 3 play aid. If you need the
previous playaid it’s in draft v02 which is in the inactive
folders.
#Post#: 5320--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Gordon Christie Date: May 8, 2020, 4:47 am
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I’m pretty certain you’re right about caching & this may well
have caught me out before. I’ll switch to downloading & opening
locally. Every days a school day:-))
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 5369--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Gordon Christie Date: May 11, 2020, 5:51 am
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Last night Andrew & I finished our third campaign
correctly:-))...we hope!
Final scenario was DOK 07 Last Gasp. LW left with OB3 (not ideal
against unarmored targets) VVS with OB 4 (probably not ideal
against anything...). We both liked the idea of being forced to
go with what was available rather than desirable at the end of
the game. Adds another layer to the choices of OB earlier
knowing that you may need all 3 offensive/ defensive OBs
depending how it plays out.
Perhaps unsurprisingly the LW fighters had the better of it. 7
kills to 2 losses & only a couple of bomber stragglers (though
the Soviets were unlucky as 2 unopposed attacks on Hs129s netted
no kills). Bomber cohesion held top well against the flak &
strafing yielded 4 hits on one artillery unit (success) & 2 on
the other without any bomber disruptions or losses for a solid
german win (-2 CVP for success -1 CVP for bonus effects on both
artillery units) Bizarrely 4 Fw 190s fell to freakish flak rolls
while strafing or engaging VVS fighters in the flak zone.
Final outcome
German decisive victory (-7). The way it plays out german
success didn't feel unreasonable to us.
Final losses were VVS 40 LW 18 (6 or 7 to flak)
Observations:
Works smoothly. I think we've now used very scenario & every OB.
Everything seems to fit together well.
Overall fits my sense of the historical narrative. LW high
quality but outnumbered & has a lot to do. Kill:loss ratios felt
better this time with no bomber massacres for the Germans though
they are perhaps slightly overpowered.
Suggestions to restore a bit of balance:
Reinstate the 3rd Yak-9 squadron in OB5.
Consider another Yak -1 Squadron in OB4 (not sure if this causes
countermine issues) . An La 5 or Yak-9 flight would be better
but I think doesn't fit in the available space.
I think the quality balance, although hard on the Soviets, fits
the historical narrative (my interpretation of Bergstrom's slim
Kursk volume is that the Germans held the edge until mid battle
when fuel supply;ies & the need to transfer units against the
Soviet Orel operation really weakened the Germans over Kursk).
I'd be reluctant to shift that but it does mean that German
successes will probably outnumber Soviet.
I'd be inclined to shift the draw threshold to perhaps -2 so the
Germans have to do better to win. i'd be incline dot say that is
taking us into beta test territory.
We'll give it another go but we're both pretty happy & it's very
nearly there at alpha.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 5371--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 11, 2020, 6:11 am
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Some thoughts for the next iteration:
(1) If we restore the 3rd Yak-9 to Soviet OOB #5, do we restore
the -1 CVP mod too?
(2) We need to consider the situation where one side or the
other achieves three raid missions. As they are forced to take
all three raid OOBs, one of those should be weak.
We already have this with the VVS OOB #3 (with the Pe-2s). I
can’t help feel that one of the German raids needs to be
weakened. Should Luftwaffe OOB #2 be restored to its previous
state with three rather than four escort flights? This should
give us a naturally ‘weak’ Orbat for the late game.
(3) We can certainly shift the draw threshold asymmetrically
against the Germans if we feel they are getting the better of
the campaign.
Another play of the campaign would be good, but let’s thrash out
a list of all the changes first and I’ll implement them this
weekend.
#Post#: 5373--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Gordon Christie Date: May 11, 2020, 7:04 am
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I'd leave an enhanced OB 5 as 0 CVP- I think the Soviets need
the break if it comes to that.
A weaker OB2 isn't unreasonable. The Ju88s aren't necessarily
easy targets.
Agree with 3.
The other thought we had that i should have mentioned is to
shift the CVP shift for LW losses down significantly back to 4
fighters for offensive scenarios & maybe 6 aircraft (total, all
types) offensively. The LW were qualitatively reasonably good at
this point but outnumbered & at the tipping point. They couldn't
afford losses & I think force conservation is an interesting
aspect of all of the campaigns we have had. This introduces an
element of it here. The Soviets can be significantly more (but
not completely) tolerant of losses.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 5374--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: Gordon Christie Date: May 11, 2020, 8:10 am
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Sorry last post should have been 4 LW fighters when defending &
6a/c when raiding.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 5375--------------------------------------------------
Re: Kursk Campaign
By: pilotofficerprune Date: May 11, 2020, 8:36 am
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Let’s look at the German losses for a moment:
Raids (bombers) - 1 + 10 + 6 + 9 + 2 + 2 + 0 = mean 4.4
Raids (fighters) - 0 + 6 + 4 + 2 + 2 + 2 + 2 = mean 2.57
Defender - 0 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 4 + 1 = 2.0
So, for German defensive scenarios we can certainly tip the
losses threshold down to 4. On the offensive the mean German
losses are 7. I’m debating whether to keep the threshold as one
or other of these:
(1) +1 CVP for 5 German bomber losses, OR
(2) +1 CVP for 8 German losses (all types)
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