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#Post#: 4201--------------------------------------------------
L04 Spring Offensive
By: pilotofficerprune Date: December 31, 2019, 3:01 am
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This is a thread stub.
#Post#: 4291--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: Gordon Christie Date: January 12, 2020, 11:34 am
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Andrew & I have now had a run through this as an alpha test.
It is a well crafted scenario on an interesting campaign with an
intriguing mix of aircraft including late biplanes & early war
monoplane fighters. Consistent with the history both sides are
sweeping so the initial merge pretty much runs on rails with the
first tally rolls largely determining the shape of the initial
combats, particularly with rigidity on both sides advantaging
the attacker. The British numerical inferiority is offset by the
greater opportunity to get to the bombers as the attacker early.
Once again Andrew's Italians were at the mercy of superior enemy
air combat die rolling technology losing 5 bombers and 4
fighters against RAF losses of 1 fighter and 1 bomber. A solid 7
hits for 4 VP on the troops compensated but the final outcome
was 13 RAF VP (all AtA) vs 7 Italian for what felt like a
British win. The AtA results flattered the British with
astonishingly good cohesion rolls (the Gladiators survived 8
cohesion rolls without breaking) and dreadful Italian combat
dice, somewhat compensated by good bombing rolls.
We chatted about this one for quite a while afterwards. It is a
good scenario on an interesting topic but intrinsically limited
by the history. My reading of the Greek campaign based largely
on Shores and Cull is of small scale clashes over the front
lines with the British having a qualitative advantage offset by
Italian numbers. No one had effective GCI (I think) and the
scenario models what happened pretty well. It is difficult to
see many plausible changes which would radically change the
situation but it does leave the disadvantage that the setup runs
on rails until the initial tallies drive the action. That said
it is a good vehicle for the Z1007 (otherwise without a scenario
for an important- if relatively large- aircraft in the Italian
ecosystem) together with the Br20 and Gladiator.
In alpha test terms we're happy as it stands.
In terms of historicity I wonder if the RAF should be rigid. The
squadrons in Greece seemed more effective than might have been
expected given their equipment and were a long way from
Whitehall and possibly somewhat freer to develop their own
doctrine. It is a minor question (but for the complete WL geek
by the time of the Nemesis scenario in Victories set a month
later the same units aren't rigid...) though & doesn't
materially affect our view of the scenario although it might
influence final testing for balance.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 4293--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 12, 2020, 11:50 am
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Okay, we can certainly try to limit the doctrine to the Italians
only. (The issue of doctrine is an odd one, as new doctrine
didn't really bleed out into the wider RAF until mid-41.
However, point taken about the improvisation that happened away
from the metropole. I don't get the impression that the RAF in
Greece was especially skilled, beyond the odd individual like
Pattle, but they certainly could have been less rigid by this
point.)
Point taken on the limits of the size of the scenario and the
on-rails nature of raid-on-raid scenarios. It's really hard to
get anything of a decent size for Greece and the vanilla nature
of this scenario might just have to be something we eat to get
the important Z.1007 in the game.
I shall move you guys off this scenario and on to Bismarck Sea,
if that's okay.
#Post#: 4295--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: Gordon Christie Date: January 12, 2020, 12:03 pm
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Agree on doctrine. It is really difficult to pin down when and
where changes seemed to happen. I have a sense of parallel
adaptation going on in different theatres though interestingly I
came across a comment recently (possibly in Ehler's The
Mediterranean Air War) about Tedder requesting "experienced
fighter leaders" from the UK to improve the DAF fighter
squadrons performance as late as 1942 though whether that
relates to doctrine at this level or to wing leading/ wing
operations wasn't clear to me. Given that RAF ME went on to do
at least some of its own pilot training/ operational conversion
there is an interesting lacuna in my knowledge & understanding
about doctrine being codified & disseminated. My impression (no
more) is that in the UK a lot depended on individual wing
leaders until 1942-43 though I don't know whether natural
selection of wing leaders or formal doctrinal development was
more important in doctrine stabilising....
On an unrelated but pedantic point the Z1007 was relatively rare
rather than large (auto correct working its magic again:-)).
We should have something on Bismarck Sea by the weekend.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 4322--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: ScottKey Date: January 22, 2020, 2:45 pm
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Scenario:Spring Offensive— January 22, 2020- PLAY #1
Version: 0.2
Playtesters: Scott Key, solitaire
Report:
- Game lasted 5 turns
- British veterans and experten were assigned to the fighter
units
- The Regia Aeronautica veteran was assigned to the Z.1007 sqn
- Cr.42 sqn flew escort one band above the Z.1007s
- The MC.200 Sqn attacked the Blenheims and which was defended
by the Gladiators who were, in their turn attacked by the MC.200
flight. 1 Blenheim was lost and the M.200 sqn broke. Dogfight
between the Gladiators and the M.200 flt.
- Dogfight resulted in the Gladiators breaking.
- The MC.200mflight strafed and was broken.
- The Hurricane squadron strafed and was broken by flak.
Flak Summary:
- British direct flak scored one cohesion hit on a friendly
Hurricane flight breaking it
- British small arms barrage scored one cohesion hit on the
M.200 flight which broke it.
- Italian Direct flak was ineffective vs Blenheims
- Italian small arms barrage was ineffective
Bombing Summary:
- Italian bombing scored 10% hits for 2 damage to the Infantry
in M0
- One MC.200 flight strafed the infantry in M0 with 10% hits for
no effect
- British bombing vs infantry in O/0 scored 0% hits
- British strafing scored 50% hits for 1 damage vs infantry in
O/0
RAF: -1 vp Infantry slight damage
Regio Aeronautica: +2 vp fighters downed, +2 vp Bomber downed ,
+1 vp Infantry minor damage= +5 vp
Victory: Draw
Total: +4 VP
Recommendations:
- VP seem right
ONE MORE PLAY TO BE POSTED FOR TODAY
#Post#: 4323--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: ScottKey Date: January 22, 2020, 4:18 pm
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Scenario:Spring Offensive— January 22, 2020- PLAY #2
Version: 0.2
Playtesters: Scott Key, solitaire
Report:
- Game lasted 8 turns
- British veterans and experten were assigned to the fighter
units
- The Regia Aeronautica veteran was assigned to the Z.1007 sqn
- Cr.42 sqn flew CLOSE escort with the Z.1007s
- The Gladiator and MC.200 squadrons tangled and entered a
dogfight in turns 2-3 with the Gladiators scoring 7 hits/4
kills. The MC.200 sqn then broke.
- The MC.200 flight tallies and attacked the Blenheim sqn. The
Blenheim lost two stragglers(= 1 loss) and the M.200s lost a
straggler over three turns at the end of which the Italian
flight broke.
- The Gladiators then attacked the Br.20 sqn for two turns with
the Falcos coming to their defense. One bomber and one Falco
were downed.
- The Falcos successfully initiated a dogfight which lasted two
turns. The Gladiators lost a plane and had one straggled.
- The Hurricane flight climbed after strafing and tallies the
Z.1007 sqn as it tried to escape. In the last turn the
Hurricanes caught the bombers (who repeatedly failed escape
attempts) but took a loss from the defenders and broke.
Flak Summary:
- British direct flak was not used before bombing due to risk of
hitting friendly sqn then was suppressed.
- British small arms barrage was not used.
- Italian Direct flak scored an ineffective cohesion hit against
the Blenheim sqn and 1 hit against the Hurricanes which did no
damage.
- Italian small arms barrage scored an ineffective cohesion hit
against strafing Hurricanes
Bombing Summary:
- Italian bombing scored 50% hits against Lt. Flak in M0 causing
Crippling damage and suppressing flak
- British bombing vs Lt. flak in O/0 scored 0% hits
- British strafing scored 0% hits vs Lt. Flak in O/0
RAF: +5 vp fighters downed; +2 vp bombers downed; +0 vp bombing=
+7 vp
Regio Aeronautica: +2 vp fighters downed, +2 vp Bomber downed ,
+4 vp Lt. flak Crippling damage= +8 vp
Victory: British
Total: +1 VP
Recommendations:
- VP seem right as a better bombing roll by the Br.20s could
really bump up the Italian vp. Of course the same the same be
said of the Blenheims but the dame they inflict at 10/25/50% is
significantly less than the Italians and not totally
counterbalancing.
- I think my use of the Hurricanes as strafers is ultimately
futile and more vp are to be had IF they can get a tally on the
bombers (it’s a big IF).
- This seems fine as is, I wouldn’t mess with it unless repeated
play shows that VPs need fine tuning.
- I was frustrated by this scenario during the first play but
after the second it seems to be a nice short puzzle that rewards
repeated play.
#Post#: 4324--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 23, 2020, 3:03 am
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Quick tabulation of combat results so far:
Italian bomber loss VP: 10 + 0 + 2 = mean 4.0
Italian fighter loss VP: 4 + 0 + 5 = mean 3.0
Italian bombing VP: 4 + 1 + 4 = mean 3.0
RAF bomber loss VP: 2 + 2 + 2 = mean 2.0
RAF fighter loss VP: 1 + 2 + 2 = mean 1.67
RAF bombing VP: 0 + 1 + 0 = mean 0.33
Mean Italian VP = 6.67
Mean RAF VP = 7.33
Mean VP score = -0.66
Based on this I'm almost tempeted to change the victory
calculation to subtracting the italian from the RAF and then
setting the draw windown closer to zero.
I'm tempetd to say that this scenario has completed alpha and
move you on somewhere else, Scott. Can you please start to look
at L12 Army Day?
#Post#: 4325--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: ScottKey Date: January 23, 2020, 12:27 pm
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Can do
#Post#: 5222--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: Forrest Speck Date: May 1, 2020, 2:19 pm
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Game 1
Assigned Italian Veterans to Z.1007. British veterans went to
the Blenheims and Hurricanes.
FLAK was ineffective for both sides.
Bombing
Blenheims totally missed for 0 VP.
Italians netted 5 hits on troops for 2 VP.
Losses
Italians didn't shoot down a damn thing.
Brits downed 2 Z.1007, 1 BR 20, 1 CR 42 and 2 MC 200's for 9 VP.
Brits 9 VP
Italians 2 VP
Net +7 for British win, felt like a British win despite whiffing
on bombing.
I made a tactical mistake putting the Falco escort too close to
the bombers giving the Hurricane a +2 mod for tallying. One
MC200 squadron kept blowing decent tally rolls. I think VP
conditions at this point are close to where they need to be.
Game 2 results following.
#Post#: 5223--------------------------------------------------
Re: L04 Spring Offensive
By: Forrest Speck Date: May 1, 2020, 2:29 pm
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Game 2
Assigned Italian vets to Z.1007 squadron. Brits had their vets
in the Blenheims and Hurricanes.
FLAK was again ineffective netting 1 hit but not a loss, despite
my bringing down Italian bombers to altitude of 4.
Bombing
Italians rolled well putting 10 hits on troops to net 6 VP.
Brits scored a hit, gaining 1 VP.
Losses
Italians lost 6 Z.1007's, 1 CR 42, and 2 MC 200.
British lost 1 Blenheim and 1 Gladiator.
Italian losses are inflated a bit as the Italian CR 42 squadron
broke in 1st combat leaving the Hurricanes free reign on the
bombers with Hurricanes rolling box cars on 1 attack for 4 hits.
Net
Italian 9 VP
British 16 VP
Net +7 British win
Felt like a British win. Still think VC's are close, want to run
this through one more time.
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