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#Post#: 4184--------------------------------------------------
L21 Budapest Besieged
By: pilotofficerprune Date: December 31, 2019, 2:53 am
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This is a thread stub.
#Post#: 4861--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 22, 2020, 3:17 am
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Just talked to Gordon, who says he and Andrew got one play in.
It was an Axis triumph, with the fighters proving too powerful.
Gordon will post later, but he recommends the following changes:
- Remove one Axis Veteran marker
- Add one Axis Green marker
- Remove one Axis Experte
- Drop Stukas starting altitude to alt 6
- Remove Lt Flak A
- Move Flak B to J0
#Post#: 4871--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: Gordon Christie Date: March 22, 2020, 9:51 am
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Andrew & I (Axis) have now had a run through this. Overall a
good scenario with an interesting mix of aircraft and
fascinating to see Stukas in 1945 opposed by Bf 109s!
The Axis definitely had the better of this one. 5 Soviet
fighters were shot down, against only 2 Axis. Flak got 2 Pe2s,
possibly 1 Ju87 but overall 10 Ju87s fell, overwhelmingly to
fighters. 4 hits were scored on the bridge for +5 VP.
Final VP were Axis 21 & Soviet/ Rumanian 7 for a very solid Axis
win.
The Axis probably had the better of the dice but not
dramatically so.
We felt the Axis were possibly a bit over powered. In terms of
quality we'd be inclined to lose 1 Axis veteran & substitute 1
Green. 50% veterans felt pretty generous for this lat in the
war, particularly in comparison to other late war scenarios. For
similar reasons we tough a second veteran for the Allies seemed
reasonable.
The light flak B is probably overkill & we'd be inclined to
remove it. Similarly we'd move ,the light flak B to J0.
Moving the Stukas down to alt 6 makes the cloud a bit more
influential & makes for some more complex setup decisions. We'd
move the Pe2s to R4/S4 which allows them to attack on the same
turn without too much fine tuning (I've a bias towards making
bomber setup such that someone playing the scenario as their
first scenario wouldn't be overly disadvantaged by non optimal
bomber setup; advanced bombing tactics are fun but we shouldn't
make outcome too dependent on this).
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 4872--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 22, 2020, 12:13 pm
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I think in the latest release I did not make the change to the
Pe-2 set-up. I'll do that now but you won't see it until next
week's release.
#Post#: 4921--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: Gordon Christie Date: March 26, 2020, 5:27 am
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As the slightly unreal waiting period continues up here Andrew &
i have managed another run through this one with the
modifications previously discussed.
Final result was another solid Axis win though we were happy
with the changes & felt it was more balanced.
Axis losses were 4 fighters with 3 hits on the flak against 4
fighters, 2 Pe2s & 3 Stukas for the Allies
VP totals: Allies +5.5
Axis +11
Again solid Axis win, which it felt like.
The Allies were unfortunate with bomber cohesion, which probably
shifted the outcome a bit, as did generally poor bombing rolls.
That said flak may still be a bit overpowered so tuning it down
to Light Flak C (L1(2)) might just defang it a bit without
negating it. We debated removing the troops but they provide a
small arms barrage at alt 0 which complicates the Allied dive
bombing a bit, especially if the flak is suppressed (which might
well be a key outcome here) & on balance we felt it was probably
better to keep them in. The either thought was allowing veteran
fighters tactical flexibility, perhaps with split limits of 4
for the Soviets & 2 for the Axis. There looks to be page space
for this & it offers some interesting choices for the Soviets in
particular about where to put the veterans. I'm beginning to
wonder if the optimal placement of at least 1 veteran is in a
Pe-2 to see if the Allies can nail the flak suppression. Equally
sending a veteran Yak sweeper down to strafe the flak offers
another interesting option for the tactical toolbox, especially
if splitting into flights is a possibility.
I like the scenario a lot-there are plenty of options & some
interesting choices so a lot of replay value. It's an
interesting collection of late war aircraft with the slightly
incongruous (but still potentially very dangerous-if they
survive) Stukas. Great fun.
We aim to test again tomorrow with the tweaks above but I think
this one is nearly there.
I'm open minded about VP. We need to see a run where Allied
bombing get a fair shake to make a judgement I think. Overall my
feeling is that the median outcome should offer the Allies a
reasonable chance of 10 VP for the bridge-given a reasonable run
the Stukas should get that if the Peshkas can silence the flak
& the Yaks can hold off the German fighters. I think we're
basically tuning the scenario towards this outcome-which would
reflect the history.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 4923--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 26, 2020, 7:45 am
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Great! I'll hold off changes until after the next play.
#Post#: 4950--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: Gordon Christie Date: March 27, 2020, 4:16 pm
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Budapest run 3 complete.
Very much a game of 2 halves with excellent German AtA rolls
balanced by a devastating attack on the bridge (DR 11, 100&
hits) by a veteran Rumanian Stuka squadron. Again the Soviets
were unfortunate AtA and, to a lesser extent, with bomber
cohesion but overall the die rolls effectively balanced.
Axis lost 5 fighters, Allies 8 fighters, 3 Pe-2s and 6 Stukas
1 hit on the flak (1VP) but 14 on the bridge (20 VP)
Axis 20 (all AtA)
Allies 26
Final score +6 for a draw, which felt right.
We played with veteran fighters having tactical flexibility
which introduced some new choices together with the other
changes already noted.
So final change list from version posted last weekend:
Pe-2s start in columns R & S (1 column left of current position)
Change flak to Light Flak C (L1(2)). I think that's in the
Supremacy box?- it's certainly in the ground targets manifest in
the dropbox.
Veteran fighters have tactical flexibility.
This is definitely ready for Beta, and probably needs only a bit
of VP balancing. It is a really good scenario with a lot of
moving parts, plenty of options & a great deal of replay value
despite a relatively small OOB. Really open ended with many
options. Certainly doesn't feel like a puzzle with solution.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 4956--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 28, 2020, 2:05 am
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I have just checked and Lt Flak C appears on none of the
countersheets! I am trying to decide what to do here. I have one
counter slot remaining. I could use it to put a new flak unit
into the game. Alternatively, would the scenario stand having
the Lt Flak B changed to 2 x Lt Flak A in J0, K0?
#Post#: 4957--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: Gordon Christie Date: March 28, 2020, 2:10 am
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I did wonder about Light Flak C. I think 2 Light Flak A,
possibly 1 in K0 which allows it to open fire earlier in the
approach is the best available option. Our tests have I think
suggested that the Axis need to be tuned down a bit overall so
this should. work.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 4959--------------------------------------------------
Re: L21 Budapest Besieged
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 28, 2020, 4:58 am
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Thinking about it, let's go with your plan of the Lt Flak C and
I'll add the counter to the countermix. I'll use the reverse for
the railhead counter, which is used in another Legends scenario.
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