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#Post#: 50--------------------------------------------------
E11 Things to Come
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 8:10 am
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Date: 2 Aug
Playtester: Elias Nordling
I like this scenario! It is a bit like a Japanese version of
those Force on Force scenarios where the Germans get to try to
use all their toys against a heavy bomber raid.
There is some interesting maneuvering going on, and the Japanese
do get through to the bombers. I had some good storytelling in
that the first attack against the bombers turned into a ramming
downing a B29, after which the Japanese squadron got drawn into
a dogfight and its ace was shot down.
Balance is another matter. As usual the Japanese fall from the
sky while having trouble scoring any hits themselves. It is fun
trying but they need the incentive. We've done this before, and
having the same +1 point per attack, double the points for shot
down B29s as in The Last Samurai ought to work here too.
The final result in my game was:
US:
Exiting bombers 24
10 Ki61
10 Ki44
All 8 Ki45
Total: 56
With The Last Samurai mods, the Japanese would have scored 12
points for shot down bombers +8 points for attacks on bombers,
for a total score of 36.
I'm OK with this still being an US victory. The Japanese
suffered horribly without much to show for it. Given 8 cohesion
rolls on bombers they should be able to expect 1-2 disruptions,
and a few less fighter losses would put the score around 26. It
would be even better if we called 24 the lowest level for a US
victory, as that would mean the US wins if the Japanese run away
without a fight.
I'd like to see something done to reduce the Japanese losses a
little, preferrably without making the Japanese more deadly
against the bombers. I'm thinking that the historical note about
escort pilot fatigue could be taken into account either by a)
using fuel limits or b) removing the veterans. Removing the gyro
sights and the experte would probably be even more efficient at
reducing Japanese losses without increasing bomber losses, but
would be harder to justify.
Other notes:
The Japanese are unalerted, US alerted. Should be other way
round, right?
Reading the rules for Heavy Guns, I honestly have no idea how
they are supposed to work.
3. 3 says
Heavy Gun (value). The squadron is equipped with heavy guns. The
value is the firepower applied to hits [13.5.2].
13.5.2 is about long range attacks, which kind of suggests the
firepower is only used in these attacks, and the regular
firepower is used otherwise. I feel like I'm stretching the
interpretation, but If the Heavy Guns firepower was used in all
cases, I can not think of why you would need to have a separate
firepower value for the heavy guns to begin with. The KI-45 KAIb
instructions are unmistakable in that you have a regular
firepower value and a heavy gun firepower value.
Another possible interpretation is that the heavy gun value is
used for air combats but not for strafing. This is actually what
a literal reading tells me if I meditate over it long enough.
But a) heavy guns sound like they would be extra useful for
strafing, and b) why not just say so if that's what the rule is
about?
#Post#: 125--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 15, 2018, 11:09 am
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Heavy guns have undergone some changes recently that hopefully
clarify their use.
I’ve shaded down the number of American veterans and experten,
as suggested. Plus I’ve added fuel limits and the Last Samurai
bomber attack modifier.
Let’s see how v0.3 tests when I publish it tomorrow.
#Post#: 160--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 17, 2018, 2:32 pm
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I have a second Things to Come playtest report coming up. I
don't have the time to type it up tonight, but I thought I'd
send my recommendations right away in case someone else is about
to start it. I think the Japanese were lucky, but I also think
we tipped the scenario a bit too much in their favour. So my
recommended changes from version 0.3 is to add another US
veteran and reduce the points for shooting down B29:s to 4
instead of 6.
I still like this scenario quite a bit.
#Post#: 161--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 18, 2018, 3:07 am
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Scenario: Things to Come
Version: v0.3
Playtesters: Elias Nordling (solo)
Report:
The adjustments I suggested last time seems to have tipped the
balance a bit too much in favour of the Japanese. Then again,
they also rolled 6 on 5 of 5 hit confirmation rolls against the
bombers, so I'm not sure this result is entirely representative
either.
It is a fun scenario, a Japanese version of those 8th AF
scenarios where the Germans get all the toys to try to stop the
4 engined bombers. The escorts felt really nerfed this time
round, probably a bit too much so. They broke off earlier and
caused fewer Japanese losses, with the result that the escorts
ran out while there were still 2 active Japanese fighter
flights.
There is some interesting manoeuvering needed for both sides.
The Japanese want to get on top of the bombers and preferrably
past the sweep and escorts while the defenders have to run
between threats from multiple directions. I used return to base
with sweeps just to catch the reinforcing Japanese coming up
from the back.
The result was a massive Japanese victory, mostly thanks to the
freakisk casualty rolls, and some really poor US rolling for
bomber cohesion. They got 8 attacks on the bombers just like the
last game, but with slightly better odds thanks to thinner
defenders.
Victory:
US bombers exited: 16. 5 Ki61, 2 Ki44 shot down. Total: 23
Japanese: 5 P51D, 5 B29, 8 attacks on bombers: 43
Score -20, Japanese victory.
With more representative rolls, I'd expect the US to get 19
points for exiting, and the Japanese down 3 bombers. That would
put the score at 26-31: -5.
Recommendations: I like the US fuel limit, but together with
removing most veterans it made them a bit too brittle, with a
little too few Japanese losses. On the other hand, the US being
stressed was part of the fun. I suggest adding one more US
veteran, which might be enough to make the difference.
As for scoring, we probably need more test and see what
difference this veteran does. We might want to dial down the
VP:s for B29:s lost too, but I guess that can be decided once we
have more result numbers.
#Post#: 163--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 18, 2018, 3:17 am
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Note that since adding the VP modifier for attacking bombers we
now have two incentives for bomber attacks in play. We are
doubling-up the incentives. On reflection, I think this is a bad
idea.
Looking at the number of bombers going down I agree that we
could probably drop the 'double B-29 loss VP' special rule
entirely. Without it you would still have been at -5 VP, a
comfortable Japanese win. And even if we were to halve the B-29
losses, to allow for your 'freakish rolls', I reckon you'd still
have a good Japanese victory. However, as you note, cohesion
rolls explain a lot of the Japanese victory here.
#Post#: 169--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 18, 2018, 5:46 am
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I think droppping the doubling will be fine. Unlike the Last
Samurai, the Japanese will get several attempts here. I'd like
to see what happens with another US veteran to losses on both
sides.
#Post#: 170--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 18, 2018, 7:39 am
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Agreed. I'll adopt your suggestion.
#Post#: 174--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 18, 2018, 2:37 pm
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Things to Come, 3rd playtest
Version: v0.3 (modified by the discussion above)
Playtesters: Elias (Solo, the putting kids to bed-routine :-)
Report:
This time, the Japanese weren't so lucky in reaching the
bombers. I don't think it was because of the additional US
veteran (after all they did better in the first playthrough when
the US was even tougher) as much as lucky US cohesion rolls. On
the other hand the Japanese had one lucky attack where a head-on
caused 2 downed B29s. By turn 5, both sides were starting to run
out of fighters, and by the end of turn 6 it was over.
Victory:
US: Bombers exiting: 15. Kills: 5 Ki61. 6 Ki44. 2 Ki45: 29
Japanese: 2 B29 shot down, 3 attacks on bombers, 4 P51:s: 13
Final score: 16
Draw. From the feel of the result, should possibly have been an
US win, but I'm not sure.
Recommendations: I think we got the gameplay right now. The US
are thin enough that they feel the stress, but good enough that
a disastrous result because of everyone breaking early is less
likely. The Japanese take a beating but will get their shots on
the bombers. That additional veteran felt just right for
balance. Now we just need to calibrate the score with a few more
playthroughs.
#Post#: 300--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: Okmed Date: October 5, 2018, 7:08 am
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Scenario: E11 Things to Come
Version: v0.3
Playtesters: Dave Demko solitaire
Report: This represents a playing and a half, with the full
scenario played according to v0.3. The Japanese followed the
prompts to go after bombers. The P-51s tried to make the most of
escort reaction, even re-forming one squadron as escorts for a
second pounce. Only one P-51 squadron split into flights; they
were wary of setting themselves up for blown cohesion rolls. The
US fighters had one turn of poor tally rolls. The Ki-45s knocked
down a B-29 with a standoff/heavy gun attack. The Americans did
an average job of using dogfights and escort reaction to keep
the interceptors off the bombers, but the Japanese still managed
some attacks against unaccompanied bomber squadrons. At the end
of 8 turns, when all fighters were broken, the bombers were all
still undisrupted.
Victory:
Japanese 12 for B-29 kills, 2 for other kills, 10 for bomber
attacks = 24 VP
US 24 for bombers exited, 13 for kills = 37 VP
net 13 VP for a close Japanese win
Recommendations: The standard 3 VP per heavy bomber (not doubled
as in v0.2) seems right. The outcome felt like a draw while the
outcome was only 1.5 VP from a draw. The rules for Japanese
entry on turns 3 to 5 keep things interesting. The P-51s face a
dilemma about using their tactical flexibility. This version is
an improvement over v0.2. I plan to try again and do more splits
with the P-51s for comparison's sake. The scenario seems good
now; maybe I'll catch something I've missed so far.
On the wing display, I use gun pod markers to represent gyros
and Japanese fighters with heavy guns or extra firepower.
#Post#: 301--------------------------------------------------
Re: E11 Things to Come
By: Elias Nordling Date: October 5, 2018, 7:23 am
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"On the wing display, I use gun pod markers to represent gyros
and Japanese fighters with heavy guns or extra firepower."
So do I.
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