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#Post#: 48--------------------------------------------------
E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 6:51 am
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Date: 4 Apr
Playtester: Elias Nordling
I played three games of Operation Rädda Danmark. The scenario
plays fast, the Swedes will take a beating, but will deliver the
bombs. It provides a good narrative, and since there are no
historical results to correct for, it can be whatever we want it
to be, and I guess we just have to worry about balance.
The Swedish are a bit lacking in both aircraft quality and pilot
quality in the scenario, and the fighters are numerically
inferior too, which gives them a hard time getting a positive VP
result. The fact that the Swedes overall have just ok protection
and the Germans are more or less all experten gives them a
buther's bill. But the J22 does a surprisingly good job at
keeping the German fighters busy.
This is one of the few scenarios I've played where it not only
makes sense to bomb the flak, but it is probably the key to
success as I discovered in my third playthrough. This also means
the front dive bomber can go into "dive immunity" already by
turn 2. This might be considered a problem in that there is a
puzzle to crack that changes the scenario, and it will give the
Germans very little time and thus reason to attack the dive
bombers. Also the B18 is where all the German points are.
In all the games I put the Swedish veteran in one of the dive
bombers.
Game 1:
A lucky German tally meant combat on turn 1. Head-on. Swedish
fighers were more or less able to contest bomber attacks.
The dive bombers suffered cohesion hits and went for the bunker.
Dive bomber 1: +1. 10%
Dive bomber 2: +3. 50%
7 hits on bunker
The B18s used glide bombing from alt 2 on the artillery:
Med bomber 1: -1: 10%
Med bomber 2: 0: 10%
4 hits on Art
Final score
Swedish points:
2 Ger ftrs shot down, 8 pts for bombing: 10
Ger pts: 2 B18, 4 B17, 2 B22: 10
Score 0, Ger massive victory.
Results seemed average, possibly a bit too many cohesion hits
against the bombers.
Game 2:
The Germans once again get a head-on on turn 1, but in an epic
moment, the Germans fail to score a hit, while the B17 rolls
boxcars at -4(-2), score a kill and break the Germans.
The bombing pattern is the same as the first game, except that
the B18s bomb from higher altitude in hopes of suffering less
from the late arriving fighter.
Dive bomb 1: +2: 50%
Dive bomb 2: +3: 50%
Glide bomb 1: -1: 0%
Glide bomb 2: -3: 0%
Unfortunately 2 Ger ftrs are left when no Sw ftrs are. This cost
the Swedes dearly.
Swedish pts: 5 bombing, 4 Ger ftrs: 9
Ger: 6 J22, 2 B17, 6 B18: 20
Final score -11, German massive victory
Game 3:
Realizing the flak is worth as much as the artillery and the
dive bombers can dive one turn earlier, I go for the flak and
artillery and ignore the bunker.
Dive bomb 1: +2: 25%
Dive bomb 2: +4: 50%
Both the dive bombers had to bomb the Flak to silence it.
Glide bombing was once again done from altitude 2.
Glide bomb 1: 0: 10%
Glide bomb 2: +1 50%
Swedish losses were notably down this game, due to a combination
of
neutralized flak and poor German cohesion rolls.
Score:
Bombing 12, 4 Ger ftrs: 16
Ger: 1 J22, 1 B17, 1 B18: 4
Score 12
This is probably as good as it possibly gets for the Swedes and
12 points should definitely be a Swedish victory.
Possible changes:
As mentioned, I see no urgent need to change anything in the
scenario, but if you feel the Germans should have a chance to do
something about the B17:s, they should be pushed back at least
one square. The CAP should then probably also go one square
right to have a chance of a turn 1 tally.
If you feel the Swedes suffer too much losses from the German
fighters, making it too hard for them to get positive points, I
think you should cut down on the German experten.
#Post#: 49--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 6:52 am
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The current VP outputs for plays are:
Elias 1st = 0
Elias 2nd = -11
Elias 3rd = 12
Average = 0.3
#Post#: 94--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 14, 2018, 1:27 am
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There were 2-3 more playthroughs reported, i believe.
#Post#: 95--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 14, 2018, 2:43 am
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[LBW: Here's the reports that were missing. I had to hunt for
these]
Date: 17 Jun
Playtester: Elias Nordling
Played Rädda Danmark again, with the revisions.
The Germans failed to tally the B17:s that got through to bomb
the Flak and artillery. The Flak was silenced, but the attack on
the artillery failed to hit. The Germans concentrated on the
B18:s instead, and the Swedish fighters mostly broke early,
allowing the Germans to score a lot of hits. The B18 bombings
were still fairly successful.
Final score: Swedish bombing: 12 pts + 3 Ger ftrs: 15
Ger: 4 J22, 1 B17, 8 B18: 21 pts
Final score: -7
The basic narrative is sound. The Swedes will take a beating,
but are able to sting back, and they will deliver the bombs for
some real damage. There are still some fine points (in addition
to the ACTUAL points) that could need some adjustment.
There is a strong incentive for the Germans to ignore the B17:s
and focus on the B18:s exclusively. The B17:s set up close to
the target and the Germans would need to be lucky to cause them
serious damage before they drop their bombs to begin with. And
they are only 1 point each compared to 2 points each for the
B18:s. The B17:s will be able to silence the Flak, giving the
B18:s a lot better bombing score, but there is no bombing result
that the Germans can't make up for by killing B18:s. Again, we
have the problem of the scenario with mixed single- and double
engined bombers.
Moving the B17 back even further will partly help. doubling the
points for bombing might put an incentive for the Germans to not
just ignore the B17:s. Other suggestions welcome. We've seen
this problem in every scenario with mixed size bombers now.
#Post#: 96--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 14, 2018, 2:44 am
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Date: 12 Jul
Playtester: Elias Nordling
Played Rädda Danmark with the latest changes. Both the pacing
and balance now felt right, and the Wilkensson sight does indeed
give the scenario some special flavour and unusual bombing
behavior from the Swedes.
The Swedish fighters had some really poor cohesion rolls giving
the German fighters a distinct numerical superiority. In the
end, they were somehow unable to translate this into Swedish
losses, and the Swedes got a few lucky shots too (like the
boxcars downing 3 German fighters).
For the Swedes, I found myself picking glide bombing over steep
angle bombing twice just to get to the target one turn earlier
avoiding a turn of attacks before bombing.
The game now had enough time to develop without the bombings
being something that happens after the game is over (well, the
last bombing happened after the last fighter left, but only just
and it could have been different).
The bombings:
B17 1: Glide bombing v Flak: +2 total. 2. 0%.
B17 2: Steep angle bombing vs Flak. +1. 9: 50% 6 hits
B18 1: Glide bombing vs Flak: +2: 6. 4 hits.
B18 2: Steep angle bombing bunker: +4: 7. 8 hits.
Final score:
Swedish: 11 pt bombing
4 German ftrs shot down.
15 pts.
Germans:
1 J22, 3 B17, 3 B18: 7
Final score 8.
A Swedish victory, and it felt like it. The Swedes could have
lost lots more aircraft, but with the new bombing mods could
also probably have scored a few more points from bombing.
It looks balanced to me now, but it could probably need a few
more tests in the current configuration for sure. In any case I
see no reason for further changes now.
#Post#: 97--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 14, 2018, 2:46 am
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Adding in the additional two playthroughs, the current VP
outputs for plays are:
Elias 1st = 0
Elias 2nd = -11
Elias 3rd = 12
Elias 4th = -7
Elias 5th = 15
Average = 1.8
#Post#: 107--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: Elias Nordling Date: September 14, 2018, 3:03 pm
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For this one, I'd discount the point results from the first two
trys, as I found the right tactics by the third try.
#Post#: 123--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 15, 2018, 10:48 am
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I just recalculated Elias’s 3rd and 4th playing with the reduced
B 18 VP, as being:
Elias 3rd = +12
Elias 4th = +1
Elias 5th = +8
That gives us a mean of +7.
The +1 is clearly a German victory. However, I feel as if the +8
that Elias ‘felt’ was a hard-won victory should be our bottom
bound for a Swedish win. This would shift the ‘draw window’ by
one to +4 to +7, putting our mean score at the upper bound of a
draw.
#Post#: 681--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: Elias Nordling Date: December 6, 2018, 2:36 pm
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v0.4
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
I am playing through the scenarios where bombing is a
significant factor to the final score to see if balance has
shifted significantly by the new disr/broken mods.
This time round looked like aSwedish disaster. The B17:s only
managed 3 hits in total on the flak thanks to good flak firing,
which also meant flak suppression failed. The J22:s did a decent
enough job keeping the German interceptors busy, but the Germans
rolled hot and losses were heavy.
Then the first B18 rolled boxcars against the bunker, scoring 10
points for the Swedes. The second also rolled decently against
the artillery, despite being disrupted.
The final score then was:
Swedish:
Bombing 15 + 1 German fighter: 16
German: 3 J22, 2 B17, 3 B18: 8
A Swedish victory, by the least possible margin. It also felt
like a hard won Swedish victory.
After noting this, I read Lee's comment:
[quote]I feel as if the +8 that Elias ‘felt’ was a hard-won
victory should be our bottom bound for a Swedish win. [/quote]
I had forgotten about this, but it was exactly how it felt this
time round too.
So, no suggested changes, the scenario is still fine.
#Post#: 683--------------------------------------------------
Re: E09 Operation Radda Danmark
By: pilotofficerprune Date: December 7, 2018, 2:59 am
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Sweet. I'm still hoping someone else tests this and validates
it.
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