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#Post#: 1851--------------------------------------------------
Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 23, 2019, 2:40 am
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Note: I originally posted this on the ADC thread, but thought
better and deleted that post and broke it out to this separate
thread. Original post is below.
[hr]
So, while editing the ADCs, some comments Karl made on the B-29
ADC has prompted an interesting question.
For me the ADCs have been designed so that they do not extend
beyond August 1945. It's the current shut-off date for the game.
The one exception to this has been the B-29 card which cheekily
includes the Tu-4, and that prompted Karl to suggest I add a
note on the British Washington B Mk.I. It was a fair comment.
Now, I have purposely been avoiding a can of worms here, because
I'm not sure I really want to extend the game to 1950-53 and
start making Korean scenarios. The existing Jet ADCs already
come close to breaking the game, and Korea is both the twilight
of the piston-engined fighter, and takes the game to a point
beyond where I'm comfortable. However, we have previously talked
about a potential Wing Leader project focussed on a world war
between the Atlantic Allies and the Soviets in 1948, sparked by
the Berlin crisis, and with theatres in Germany/Baltic, Far
East, Iran/Gulf and Black Sea/Eastern Med/Israel, etc. Such a
war would take place at a time where jets are still a novelty
(for example, the RAF had only one squadron of jets in RAFG at
this time) and most of the air fighting would still be between
piston-engined types.
So my question is this: if we built an expansion around this
idea, what existing Supremacy and Eagles ADCs would be required
for it, and what changes (such as post-war variants) would need
to be supported on those cards? For example, would the Spit XIV
card be sufficient for the late-model Spit 24s (or would those
need a new card?), and would they need to be included as a
variant note on the Spit XIV?
Essentially I am talking about taking existing ADCs and moving
the cutoff date from 1945 to 1948.
To clarify: I don't know if I have the stomach for such a
scheme. It might never happen. But I don't want us to one day
decide it would be a cool project and then discover that many
existing ADCs are unready for it.
#Post#: 1852--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 23, 2019, 2:55 am
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I need to clarify what I’m aiming at here. I’m NOT asking what
new ADCs would we need for a 1948 expansion. What I’m asking is
what existing Supremacy and Eagles ADCs would be used in such an
expansion, and what variant data would need to be added to them?
For example, off the top of my head:
(1) The Tempest V would probably need to support the Tempest II.
(2) The Spitfire F XIV may need to support the F Mk.22 and F
Mk.24.
(3) Does the P-51H require its own ADC or would it need to be
incorporated into the P-51D ADC?
(4) Does the Yak-9U need to support the Yak-9P?
(5) The Yak-3 would need to encompass the Yak-3P.
And so on. Are there any other suggestions?
#Post#: 1854--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: Elias Nordling Date: February 23, 2019, 3:24 am
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Not my area of expertise, but the Swedish aircraft soldiered on
into the 50s. The B18 especially received an engine upgrade with
the B18B. That might make it a new ADC, I guess. There was also
the ground attack version T18B. The J22 was upgunned in the J22B
variant but I assume you already checked into that and it wasn't
enough for firepower 2.
#Post#: 1855--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: Vincent Lefavrais Date: February 23, 2019, 3:36 am
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The Firefly F Mk.I ADC refers to versions that "would serve into
the Korean War and beyond" so it might be a candidate (don't
know squat about post-war aircraft, though...)
#Post#: 1857--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 23, 2019, 4:25 am
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[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=114.msg1854#msg1854
date=1550913890]Not my area of expertise, but the Swedish
aircraft soldiered on into the 50s. The B18 especially received
an engine upgrade with the B18B. That might make it a new ADC, I
guess.[/quote]
Yes, the later B 18B was a much faster aircraft and would
probably rate its own ADC.
[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=114.msg1854#msg1854
date=1550913890]The J22 was upgunned in the J22B variant but I
assume you already checked into that and it wasn't enough for
firepower 2.[/quote]
Yes, the armament combinations are that distinct from each
other.
#Post#: 1861--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: Agm84ssm Date: February 23, 2019, 6:35 am
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The Arab - Israeli War of 1948 would be a interesting situation
and the most of ADC are made
#Post#: 1865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 23, 2019, 10:44 am
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Thoughts on 1948 for the British:
Regarding BAFO in Germany, 84 Group comprised Tempest Vs,
Tempest IIs (many intended for ground attack), Spit F.24
(arrived Jan 48), Mosquito B.XVI and FB.VI, Vampire F.1 (arrived
April 48)
Vampire FB.5s to replace the Tempest IIs did not arrive until
late in Dec 48
RAF home defence mainly comprised Meteor F3 and F4; Vampire F1
and F3; Hornet F1 and F3; Spitfire XIV, F.21 and F.22.
Bomber Command was primarily equipped with a mix of Lancaster Is
and IIIs, along with a number of Lincoln B.2s.
RAF Middle East had a number of Tempest VI squadrons.
RAF Far East had some ground attack Beaufighter X, with Spit
F.22.
I don’t have a fleet air arm orbat for 1948. In 1946 a chunk of
the force was Seafire III, XV, XVII; Hellcat II, Firefly FR I
and Corsair IV. There were a few Sea Hornet squadrons available
in 1948, and the earliest sea Fury squadrons were becoming
available.
ADC notes:
Tempest. The Tempest V might need to also represent the Tempest
VI, which mostly seems to have served in the middle-East and
India. However, the Tempest II might requires its own ADC with a
slightly improved climb rate. (Lowest band 0 - 6)
Spitfire. Spit F XIV may need to represent the Spitfire Mk.22
and Mk.24.
Mosquito FB.VI. I may just meed to make sure there were not
notable equipment additions to the aircraft above the ones
currently on the ADC.
Firefly. The Firefly FR.4 probably needs its own ADC.
For the Soviets:
Yak-9U may also need to represent the Yak-9P.
Yak-3 may need to represent the Yak-3P with heavier armament
#Post#: 1866--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: Elias Nordling Date: February 23, 2019, 10:52 am
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Pondering the issue, British and Soviet aircraft are probably
the ones that need to be checked. The US piston engined fighters
seem to not have been developed beyond 1945, and they seem to
have ben content in using the surplus of already existing medium
bombers until jet bombers were available.
#Post#: 1867--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 23, 2019, 11:49 am
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[quote author=Elias Nordling link=topic=114.msg1866#msg1866
date=1550940761]Pondering the issue, British and Soviet aircraft
are probably the ones that need to be checked. The US piston
engined fighters seem to not have been developed beyond 1945,
and they seem to have ben content in using the surplus of
already existing medium bombers until jet bombers were
available.[/quote]
I suspect that the Americans would require all-new ADCs. For
example, we already cover the P-51D/K, but the P-51H is such a
hot bird that it would need its own ADCs. The P-47M and N are
shipping with Eagles. The only other major USAF fighter type
available for 1948 is the P-80, for which we'd build an ADC.
For the Navy we already have the late-model Corsairs as a
separate ADC. For the Navy and Marines, the Bearcats would be an
all-new ADC.
I'm unclear what medium bombers would have still been available
in 1948. I don't know of all the Marauders were scrapped by
then. There may have still been B-25Js in reserve.
I could really do with an order of battle for the USAF for that
date.
#Post#: 1868--------------------------------------------------
Re: Future-Proofing ADCs to 1948
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 23, 2019, 11:52 am
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So far the only ADCs that seem to need modification are:
Tempest V (Supremacy) - Add Tempest VI
Spitfire XIV (Supremacy) - Add Spitfire F.18, F.21, F.22, F.24
Yak-3 (Eagles) - Add Yak-3P
Yak-9U (Eagles) - Add Yak-9P
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