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#Post#: 43--------------------------------------------------
E08 Bad Landfall
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 6:39 am
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Date: 4 May
Playtester: Ian DeArdo/Elias Nordling
Elias and I finished a much delayed playthrough of this with the
allies having a massive +26 score.
I (Allies) split my interceptors during escort tally. They did
some damage, but both flights broke immediately. Elias was able
to get his interceptors into my bombers and disrupted 3 sqns I
believe. The remaining two rolled well (disrupted must abort)
and got exactly to fatal damage on the airport.
IIRC 4 German fighters were downed, 4 twin engined bombers were
downed and 30VP for fatal airfield damage.
It's hard to say how this would be changed. Elias feels that the
bombing will really shift the victory conditions and, at best, 3
sqns of bombers can be affected. He feels halving the bombing VP
might be worthwhile to try.
Except for great bombing rolls for the Allies, everything went
well for the Germans. The escorts didn't manage anything but
knocking down a few planes. If they survive, given the aircraft
quality with gyro sights, the interceptors may face a much
tougher time and more bombers get through. The bombers will do
damage with the rocket mods and have the added strafing FP.
I'd really have to see a few more playthroughs before I could
give a definitive answer as any outlier results can really have
a snowball effect.
#Post#: 44--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 6:44 am
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Date: 1 Mar
Playtester: Peter Wagner
First off, it looks like the Mustang III should be underlined as
it is a variant of the P-51B Mustang (it has Gyro capability
added). Also in the 3rd sentence of the second paragraph of
Background, there is a double/triple space between “making” and
“landfall.”
Second, I’m confused on having the ‘Tsetse’ variant included.
The difference is that it has the AT Gun 5 capability and its
firepower is reduced to 1. Was the intent for the ‘Tsetse’ to
have a stronger firepower in this scenario or a weaker one;
because the AT Gun cannot be used against the Airport since the
rules say AT Gun ability only affects Tank, Truck, Train, and
Ship targets. So effectively, the ‘Tsetse’ is the WEAKER of the
two Mosquito squadrons in this scenario since its firepower is
only 1 whereas the other has a firepower of 3. Don’t get me
wrong, I would completely understand why the ‘Tsetse’ came along
since the Background says they were originally going after
shipping . . . just wanting to verify if the intent for this
scenario was for them to only have a firepower of 1 against the
Airfield (cool, we get to strike the airfield . . .but our huge
gun isn’t very effective at leveling buildings. More effective
at penetrating a ships hull).
Third, concerning Special Rule 4. What happens to bombers who
fire their Rockets in the same turn they are attacked (fighters
engage them after they have moved and dropped ordinance). They
have already fired their rockets and so have nothing to
Jettison. But by Jettison do you mean they must RTB regardless
of whether they have ordinance to Jettison? Would “being”
attacked include Small Arms fire from the Airfield or just enemy
fighters? This rule could use some clarifying.
For my first playthrough attempt, I had the ‘Tsetse’ use a
firepower of 1 when strafing and I allowed the bombers to
continue to strafe up to depleted ammo even after they were
attacked. This was due to my confusion about Special Rule 4 from
the start. I’m thinking the intent was for them to RTB at the
conclusion of the first air-to-air combat.
After Action Report
I realize now that the only hope for the Germans is to split
into flights ASAP and engage as many bomber squadrons as
possible. This should be pretty easy for them to accomplish and
that’s 4 of the 5 bomber squadrons out of the picture
potentially before they reach the airfield.
For my playthrough, I failed to realize this at the beginning
and the Germans stayed as squadrons the whole way through. They
were easily able to tally and cause two bombers to RTB before
reaching the Airfield. But due to the delay caused by engaging
then spending another turn to set themselves up to tally a
different bomber two turns later, the other three squadrons
easily made it to the Airfield and smashed it.
On their opening attack, the bombers (x2 Beaufighers x1 Tsetse)
combined their strafing and rocket attacks and managed 10 hits
on the Airfield. They then were able to turn around and take a
2nd strafing pass to add four more hits. Before their 2nd pass,
the 109s managed to engage one of the Beaufighters but I did not
enforce Special Rule 4 since I figured that they couldn’t
Jettison if they didn’t have anything to Jettison. But had I
enforced the rule it wouldn’t have changed anything since the
Beaufighter that was engaged did not managed to score any hits
anyway.
German losses – x5 Fw-190s, x1 Bf-109 (6 VPs)
Airfield Damage – Crippling Damage (20VPs)
British losses – x3 Beaufighters, x1 Mosquito, x2 Mustangs
(10VPs)
British Total 26 – German Total 10 = 16 (+4 above the British
Victory margin)
Considering how I made it harder for Germans by not splitting
their squadrons and messing up Special Rule 4, I would have
thought that this would not have been so close.
Going to play it a 2nd time now with better strategy on Germans
part and see how things change.
#Post#: 45--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 6:45 am
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Date: 1 Mar
Playtester: Peter Wagner
The Mosquitos have VERY impressive performance ratings and a
whopping 3 Firepower. That’s a lot of incentive NOT to tangle
with them. A 109 or 190 flight at best is going to get a +1/-1
differential against them. They are “light bombers.” But they
will mess you up if your attack them. Thankfully all you have to
do in this scenario is attack them period, and they go home
(which is good for Germans).
So the German strategy this time was to split into flights and
try to each engage a bomber squadron to keep it from bombing
(avoiding losses was not the strategy).
The Mustangs positioned themselves directly above the 2nd to
last bomber squadron to cover all bombers.
End result . . . Mustangs did an excellent job of reacting and
tying up both Fw-190 flights. The 109 flights managed to engage
three bomber squadrons and send them packing before they could
attack airfield. But the two bomber squadrons that DID make it
through were all the British needed to secure victory. The first
combined strafing/rocket attack was a flop (double ones). But
the second (a Beaufighter) scored 50% hits (3 firepower + 8 ATGR
= 6 hits) which secured 10 VPs right there for the British. The
Mustangs triumphed over the German fighters scoring 5 kills at
no loss to themselves.
British Losses – x1 Mosquito (2VPs)
German Losses – x1 Fw-190, x4 Bf-109s (5VPs)
Airfield Damage – Heavy Damage (10VPs)
British Total 15 – German Total 2 = 13 (just one over threshold
for British Victory)
The Mustangs seem a little too powerful with their Veteran
marker giving them +2/-2 differential in most combats against
German flights. Maybe take away the Veteran Marker?
In both playthroughs, the German Small Arms flak from the
Airfield consistently scored hits and negative bombing
modifiers, but the 4-5 protection ratings made most hits
ineffective and the +3 rocket/strafing modifier negates the flak
effects. Perhaps adding a Light or Heavy Flak marker for support
would add a few more Bomber losses and help balance it in
Germans favor. I don’t see how the Germans could have done much
better with their strategy. And since only two bombers made it
to target (one a complete miss), I feel like this should have
been a draw at least.
So I’m not sure what to recommend here. Would adding a flak unit
for Germans make it too non-historical? Were the Poles really
that good to deserve a Veteran marker (I really don’t have input
here just asking)? Maybe giving an expert to Germans would help
some. The victory margins seem solid since 10VPs from damage to
Airfield seems VERY doable (I did it in both plays). 20VPs from
Airfield seems unlikely so factoring in a few German losses
makes +14 a reasonable victory threshold for British. So maybe
simply taking away Veteran status and adding a flak unit and
expert would be all that was needed.
I REALLY like this scenario idea.. There is really good strategy
here with the Germans trying to “tag-your-out” as many of the
Bomber squadrons as possible.
#Post#: 46--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 6:47 am
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Date: 10 Sep
Playtester: Elias Nordling
I saw an easy way to move one more scensrio to its good category
by 2 quick plays of Bad Landfall.
The scenario is extremely scripted with little decision making,
it almost plays itself. I'm OK with that, as it plays really
fast. I think there is a place for this kind of scenario that
doesn't exactly overtax the player with decisions too.
In the first playthrough, all fighters but one German flight
broke at first combat. In the other, the Escorts did much better
and were able to hunt down broken German fighters. In both, 3
bomber squadrons were aborted before bombing. In the first one,
the bombing rolls were more successful than in the second.
Score 1st Playthrough:
British: 20/2 for bombing +4 Ger ftrs: 14
German: 3 bomber, 1 ftr: 7
Final score 7. German victory by 1 point.
Score 2nd Playthrough:
British: 10/2 bombing + 9 German fighters: 14
Germans: 1 bomber, 2 fighters: 4
Final score 10: Draw
Including the game I played with Ian, I've had one British win,
one German win and a draw. I have a feeling it might be harder
for the British to win, but I don't really mind that. Let's go
with what the game results tells us. i think this one is fine.
#Post#: 47--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 12, 2018, 6:48 am
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The current VP outputs for plays are:
Elias 1st = 7
Elias 2nd = 10
Peter 1st = 16
Peter 2nd = 13
Ian/Elias 1st = 26
Average = 14.4
#Post#: 122--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: pilotofficerprune Date: September 15, 2018, 10:21 am
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Notes in no particular order:
Pete’s comments on the Tsetse are reasonable. They did shoot up
the airfield and so far as I can make out they were ineffective,
but there you are. . .
With regards to Pete’s RTB comment, I’m going to try and clarify
the wording regarding RTB and bomb load.
I think instead of halving the bombing against the airfield I’d
like to cap it at 10 VPs. I think this might lead to some
interesting (and historical) behaviours, such as jettisoning
bombs once the VP cap for the airfield is reached, and
encouraging bombers not to hang around for long.
I calculated the VP outputs from the played scenarios with the
VP cap on the airfield and it gave us a mean VPs of 9, which is
slap bang in the middle of the draw window.
#Post#: 785--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: Gordon Christie Date: January 4, 2019, 9:39 am
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Andrew (LW) & I (RAF) have tried this one.
Played quickly (30 minutes) & felt fine with the only minor
concern being VP thresholds (see below)
The escorts did well reacting successfully against both flights
of the 109 squadron which had split scoring 2 kills for no
losses. The 190s also split & engaged the rear 2 Beaufighter
squadrons. The rear squadron lost 3 for 1 190 kill but the
Mustangs were able to drive off the other 190s for no losses on
either side. The lead Mosquitoes handily strafed the airfield
for an excessive 25 hits however final result was:
RAF 3 fighter kills 10 VP for airfield (capped)---> +13
LW 3 Beaufighter kills ----> +6
Nett +7 for german victory.
In terms of VP balance I think 10 VP for the airfield are
(almost) a given as even with splitting & failed or late escort
reaction one bomber squadron will hit the airfield with
favourable modifiers unless the (weak) barrage flak rolls
exceptionally well & can come back for another cannon strafing
pass with a firepower of at least 3 if the first run fails to
inflict 6 hits. I agree the VP cap is sensible as otherwise the
AtG outcome becomes very volatile & the VP swings dependent on
the level of airfield damage will heavily outweigh the AtA
outcome.
Our concern was that it is difficult to see an outcome where the
LW fail to come out ahead in VP AtA given the 2 VP for each
bomber shot down. For the RAF to win they need to hit the
airfield (straightforward) for 10 VP then get an AtA exchange
ratio of (I think) 3:1 or better to outweigh the VP differential
for the bombers. I think this is likely to need a lot of luck &
I'd suggest moving the VP thresholds down to +5 or less for
german victory, +6 to +9 for draw & +10 or more for an RAF win.
the 190s coming in from astern will be hard to counter for the
RAF & the 3 FP will do significant damage to the Beaufighters
especially if the escort fail to react (not unlikely as the
germans are coming in behind & below).
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 787--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 4, 2019, 1:29 pm
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Okay, we can look at dropping the draw window by 2.
#Post#: 1042--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: Gordon Christie Date: January 20, 2019, 11:16 am
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I think Andrew & I would be happy to sign off on this one too.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 1044--------------------------------------------------
Re: E08 Bad Landfall
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 20, 2019, 11:31 am
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Was that based on a new test or your previous one?
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