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#Post#: 1216--------------------------------------------------
V17 Nemesis
By: Gordon Christie Date: January 26, 2019, 8:43 am
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Nemesis playtest report; Gordon (Luftwaffe), Andrew (RAF)
Run one using the currently printed version of the scenario.
The Luftwaffe had the better of the air to air combat. 6
Hurricanes were lost against only 2 bombers and 1 Me 109 however
the flak managed to down 4 bombers and 2 Me 110s. The Luftwaffe
managed only a disappointing 6 hits on the port for 6 victory
points.
Final result was a clear RAF victory (which it also felt like,
although probably more of the honours went to the flak than the
fighters).
RAF +16 VP (kills)
LW +12 VP (6 kills, 6 hits on port)
-4 VP final total
We felt that the Do 17s & their escort were not going to play
any real part in the scenario & removed them for subsequent runs
leaving only the Ju88s, the 2 109 sweep squadrons & the low 110
squadron. Flak had far too great effect on the outcome (probably
once again the result of underestimating the effects of flak
early in the scenario design process). We deleted the targets &
relied on exit VPs for the subsequent tests.
Run 2 was a tidy LW victory-RAF combat die rolls were appalling
(I don’t think Andrew rolled greater than 6 throughout) although
the cohesion rolls were good enough to leave the unfortunate
Hurricanes to be beaten up repeatedly. 6 Hurricanes went down
against only 1 109 although one bomber was disrupted.
Final score was:
LW 21: Exit 15 kills 6
RAF 1 (kill)
+20 for solid LW victory (which it felt like)
For run 3 we modified the setup fixing the 109 sweep in N10,
011, moving the bombers up to J7, K7 & L7& fixing the low 110s
in F4 which prevents them getting to the bombers before the low
Hurricanes. We moved the high Hurricanes to K11 & the low
Hurricanes to M5. We gave the RAF a +1 cohesion roll to reflect
the historical level of (near suicidal) determination shown.
Again RAF die rolls were poor but this felt better
Final scores
LW: 18 exit VP 8 Hurricane kills, 1 flight eliminated: +28
RAF 1 bomber kill -2
Final +26 for a convincing LW win. RAF die rolls were again
dreadful & this result definitely flattered the LW although we
felt we were iterating towards a setup which gave both sides a
chance & a narrative far closer to the history.
Run 4 I’ve managed to lose my notes for but was a bloody draw
with (IIRC) 8 or 9 Hurricanes lost, 1 flight eliminated but 6 or
7 LW losses & 1 or 2 bombers disrupted
We tweaked the setup again slightly bringing the low Hurricanes
to L5 where they are in a position to catch the bombers on GT2 &
the 110s to G4 where they have a remote (6 if not veteran) tally
chance on the low Hurricanes on GT1 but are very likely to tally
on GT2
Run 5 saw 4 bombers lost together with 1 109 against 7
Hurricanes. 2 bombers were disrupted.
Final score
LW: 12 exit +7 kills- 19
RAF 9 (kills)
RAF win (which it felt like) with +10
We felt reasonably happy at this point.
Final suggestions:
Setup:
Hurricane squadron in J11, flight in L5
Bombers in J7,K7, L7
110s in G4
109 sweep in N10 O11
109 escorts in escort parameters
Remove everyone else & ground targets in current setup
SSRs:
RAF determination +1 to cohesion rolls throughout.
RAF can split Hurricane squadron into flights in Tally phase of
GT1 & allocate tallies to each flight without DRs
Delete SSR requiring RAF experte in low Hurricanes.
If flight eliminated+3 VP to LW, +6 if squadron eliminated.
No voluntary beak for RAF
Victory:
LW +18 or more
Draw: +14 to +17
RAF +13 or less
Premise here is that AtA VP will be pretty balanced. The RAF
should get enough attacks on the bombers that 1 disruption is
likely. Better than average bomber kills or disruption will need
to be offset by destruction of a Hurricane unit if the Germans
are to win. If the RAF run away the Germans win. If the RAF want
to win they need to go for the bombers.
There are some interesting dogfight choices here-the Hurricanes
are quite handy with edge rating & may well give as good as they
get so dogfights are risk for the LW *but* they need to drag
the RAF away from the bombers & avoid bomber cohesion rolls &
fix the RAF in place to minimise chances of escape.
We think this works reasonably well & offers some reasonable
choices for both sides:
RAF:
High Hurricanes: Can allocate tallies to escorts & lead bombers.
If escorts fail to try & tally Hurricanes & wait to react (or
try & tally & fail) they can be bounced by one Hurricane flight
(if the RAF splits) while the other flight (probably with the
experte) goes for the lead bombers unmolested on GT1. If the
escorts tally the Hurricanes they split & both go for a bomber,
again ensuring they are attacking on GT1.
Low Hurricanes:
Will tally the trailing bombers & catch them on GT2. 110s will
likely tally on GT2 (low odds on GT1) & arrive on GT4. High 109s
have low odds tally rolls on GT1 (but higher priority & higher
probability against high Hurricanes) so going after the low
Hurricanes may not be the best strategy. If high 109s come down
with nearly tally they may be able to support the bombers when
the low Hurris attacks on GT2
High 109s-have tally options both ways. A lucky tally might
allow an attack on the low Hurricanes on GT1 but the likelier
outcome is tallies on the high Hurricanes & engagement on GT2.
Failed tallies will be redeemed by the ability to close on the
escort squadron (which will be engaged on GT1 whatever happens)
which is on the same radio net bringing them closer to their
prey with better odds for tallying.
Escorts: Also have interesting choices. GT1 tally on the high
Hurricanes is likely. Prevents the bounce but allows both
Hurricane flights to go after the bombers (maximising the number
of bomber cohesion rolls). A tally by the escorts does provide
insurance against the high 109s completely fluffing their tally
rolls over several turns as they can dive towards the escorts
(who are on the same radio net)-this is probably the optimal RAF
situation but it doesn’t prevent the high 109s engaging- it
likely only delays them by a turn.
110s: Will have to climb but will probably get there & may well
be handily placed to catch broken Hurricanes trying to dive away
from the battle. German player needs to bear this in mind- the
110s can be dangerous chasing down broken Hurricanes with their
speed & firepower.
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 1237--------------------------------------------------
Re: V17 Nemesis
By: pilotofficerprune Date: January 26, 2019, 3:24 pm
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Magnificent.
For the newcomers, Gordon and I have been engaged on a
side-project to fix two of the most broken Victories scenarios:
Malta Recce and Nemesis. We have now done a round of testing on
the 'fixed' versions of the scenarios. I shall post the latest
versions of these on Sunday. At some point in the future I will
ask for some additional validation tests on both of these, but
they are low priority at the moment.
#Post#: 1705--------------------------------------------------
Re: V17 Nemesis
By: Elias Nordling Date: February 13, 2019, 2:24 pm
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v2.0
Player: Elias Nordling (Solo)
The setup is pretty nifty. It scripts the scenario a bit, but it
is a fairly good script. The Hurricanes will get through to the
bombers and will get a punch or two before the escorts catch up
and it is time to bug out. Then the Hurricanes try to get out as
the Germans try to reverse the score.
The scoring is just right for the reasons Gordon posted above,
but I am concerned that the British initial punch is too weak
and the German riposte too strong. In my game, only one bomber
was downed despite 6 attacks on them, because most of the
attacks were pretty poor. Also, the German fighters will have a
pretty easy time forcing the British into dogfights, which is
potentially disastrous for the British. Then again, all this
basically happened in my game and it was still a draw, although
with a narrow margin. One of the British flights came within 0,5
losses of being wiped out, but 4 of the British losses came in
two 11-rolls by the Germans. I'll have to try again to see if
the rolls were skewed in favour of the Germans, they certainly
might have been. I'm thinking that a German veteran can be
removed to adjust balance, if needed.
As a suggestion right away, however: If you set up the Hurricane
squadron split from the start (and add a veteran), you can
remove about half of the special rules. Rule 1 can be crossed
out. Rule 2 can be shortened. Half of rule 6 is removed, and you
don't have to answer the ambiguity that is currently in the
rule. Which is, if the squadron splits, do you get points for
destroying the flights, or only the original flight?
Turn by turn below in brief, I don't have the time to clean it
up but hopefully it's useful anyway:
Score at start: 18-German victory
T1:
2 head-on attacks on bombers.
1st attack bust. 1 straggler on 2nd. Bomber Disr. Now 15 draw.
T2: German Escort reacts late. All 3 bombers now attacked, bu
last one by climbing ftr. Other two protected by Bf109s.
1st attack, 1 Hurri lost. Dogfight.
2nd attack: Another straggler=bomber lost. Dogfight.
3rd attack: Straggler on bomber
Now 14 draw
T3:
2 dogfights, one attack on bomber protected by climbing Bf110
Bomber attack: 1 Hurri lost. Hurris break.
Dogfight 1: 1 Bf109, 2 Hurris lost. Hurris break, Germans Disr.
Dogfight 2: Hurris 1 loss, 1 straggler. Germans Disr.
Score: 17, Draw
T4:
1 Dogfight, 2 pursuits
Pursuit 1: 1 Hurri lost, 1 Straggler. 0,5 hurri left in flight.
1 Bf109 shot down. Bf109 break.
Pursuit 2: 1 Hurri lost, Bf109, Bf110 disrupt.
Dogfight: 1 Bf109 lost, both break. British escape.
T5: Remaining 2 Hurris exit map.
Score:
Germans: Exit 15, 7 Hurris shot down
British: 1 bomber, 3 Bf109
17: Draw
#Post#: 1710--------------------------------------------------
Re: V17 Nemesis
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 14, 2019, 2:37 am
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Okay, I'll look at the set-up at the weekend.
#Post#: 1715--------------------------------------------------
Re: V17 Nemesis
By: Gordon Christie Date: February 14, 2019, 8:09 am
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I suspect Elias is right that the Hurricane squadron can set up
as flights cutting down rules overhead though I seem to remember
there was a reason I decided against this though I can’t
remember what it was...and hence whether it remains valid:-((
Cheers
Gordon
#Post#: 1752--------------------------------------------------
Re: V17 Nemesis
By: pilotofficerprune Date: February 16, 2019, 12:06 pm
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I've implemented the set-up and special rule changes and will
post them up later this weekend.
#Post#: 1993--------------------------------------------------
Re: V17 Nemesis
By: Elias Nordling Date: March 2, 2019, 1:26 pm
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v2.0 revised
Player: Elias Nordling (solo)
Tried Nemesis again in its revised version. The Hurricanes got 4
passes on the bombers before they were tied up in dogfights.
They failed to disrupt any bomber, but managed to get a net
point gain in air combat due to downing a bomber and 5 Bf109s to
6 Hurricanes. The end result was a draw.
Suggestions: With the RAF set up split, they need another
veteran to make up for it. Other than that, I think the scenario
is fine now.
#Post#: 1994--------------------------------------------------
Re: V17 Nemesis
By: pilotofficerprune Date: March 3, 2019, 1:35 am
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Roger that. I'm going to make your proposed change.
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