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#Post#: 476--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 5, 2018, 3:44 am
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Question for Dave and Elias: do we have a problem with this
scenario of incentivising players to go for the Pe-2s rather
than other aircraft, because of the VPs?
#Post#: 477--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: November 5, 2018, 3:59 am
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I didn't think so. First, because the Pe-2:s are speed 5, low
drag, they are much harder to kill unescorted than the Il-2:s.
Second, though this might be perception, the Il-s2:s are more
likely to cause damage to the airfields.
It might be that the VP cap to airfield damage changes this
dynamic. I liked the open-ended VP:s for the airfield in this
scenario, as it gave the Finns some urgency in getting results
against the bombers. If the Soviets can just pile on more
bombers on the target, then there isn't much need in attacking
them before they bomb. If we feel the bombing VP:s make the
scenario too swingy, perhaps halving the value of bombing gives
better incentives than a cap?
#Post#: 478--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 5, 2018, 5:43 am
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It seems to be easy to bomb targets. Just check these results
from the playtests:
Elias 1: Airfield 17 hits; Flak 4 hits
Elias 2: Airfield 15 hits; Flak 4 hits
Elias 3: Airfield ? hits; Flak 1 hit
Dave 1: Airfield 14 hits; Flak 4 hits
Dave 2: Airfield ? hits; Flak 2 hits
I don't have a lot of data here, but I get the impression that
achieving twice the damage value is very achievable. The problem
I have is that if we calibrate to this, then any failure NOT to
achieve a double results in a Soviet loss, making the scenario
super-swingy (i.e. a 10 VPs differential that would need to be
made up somehow). Given that Soviet successes in the air are
very low, I think that means the entire scenario hinges on the
bombing dice.
Halving the bomb outputs has much the same problem, though the
swing differential halves to 5 VPs.
I think I'd rather keep the cap on and keep the emphasis on the
Finnish ability to inflict hurt on the Soviets.
#Post#: 479--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 5, 2018, 5:59 am
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Actually, there may be an alternative that would allow us to
drop the cap. That might be to set the base VP value of the
Airfield to 3 VPs. This would give us the following:
Slight Damage = 1 VP
Minor Damage = 2 VPs
Heavy Damage = 3 VPs
Crippling Damage = 6 VPs
Fatal Damage = 9 VPs
Now, bear in mind that bombing is the primary way the Soviets
can score, as their air-to-air success rate is so low. This
would mean the likely bombing VPs would be in the vicinity of 9
VP against Airfield and Flak. If we were then to set the draw
window to +2 to +4, the Finns would need to score a net +5
aerial VPs to draw, and +8 to win.
However, should the Soviets drop the ball on bombing and only
score Heavy damage, then at least the Finnish route to victory
only drops to +2 for a draw or +5 for the win.
Any thoughts?
#Post#: 480--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 5, 2018, 6:40 am
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Okay let's run with this plan for a moment.
(1) Drop the VP cap on the airfield.
(2) Instead, reduce the Airfield printed VP value from 10 VPs to
3 VPs.
(3) Reduce the draw window to +2 to +4 VP.
What effect would this have on the playthroughs we've had so
far?
Elias 1 = -6 VPs Finnish Victory (perception: Finnish Victory)
Elias 2 = +8 VPs Soviet Victory (perception: Soviet Victory)
Elias 3 = -2 VPs Finnish Victory (perception: Finnish Victory,
but the Soviets could have salvaged a draw)
Dave 1 = +7 VPs Soviet Victory (perception: Soviet Victory)
Dave 2 = +1 VP Finnish Victory (perception: Finnish Victory)
What's interesting here is that further good die rolls on either
side could have turned some of these results in a way that might
not have been possible before.
#Post#: 482--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: November 5, 2018, 7:24 am
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I like the sound of that.
#Post#: 483--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 5, 2018, 8:23 am
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Me too. I'll update the scenario at the weekend.
#Post#: 633--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: Okmed
Date: November 30, 2018, 1:53 pm
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Scenario: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
Version: v0.4
Playtesters: Dave Demko solitaire
Report: The Russian plan was to arm the IL-2Ms with ATGRs and
give priority to the Airfield. The Finns sent all interceptors
against the Pe-2s (more valuable when killed), splitting one
squadron and leaving the flak to deal with the Illyushas. When
the Russians saw the Finnish plan, the low Yaks abandoned escort
duty and climbed into the fight. Despite the cloud modifier and
having all three squadrons Disrupted, The Pe-2s bombed well
(50%), and the rocket attacks were 25%, 100% and 100% (Fatal
damage). The IL-2Ms then strafed the Lt Flak, unopposed by
fighters (Heavy damage). The Finnish fighters rolled very well
for both gunnery and cohesion. Of the 13 Pe-2s killed, 10 of
them fell in air-to-air combat. So the Finnish hope to score
points with shootdowns went very well.
Victory:
Finns: 1 VP for a Yak + 3 VP for IL-2Ms + 26 VP for Pe-2s =
30
Russians: 11 for bombing + 3 for kills = 14
net: -16, crushing Finnish victory
Recommendations: I agree my Finns underperformed in my last
reported test. They were stellar this time. Both sides
accomplished their plans, with the Russians fairly ruining the
ground targets while the Finns slaughtered medium bombers. That
seemed like it should have come out as a close Finnish victory.
With a 10 VP Airfield the result would have been +5, just barely
a Soviet victory. With a 3 VP Airfield and more nearly average
bomber kills (say 8 Pe-2s knocked down), the result would have
been -1, a close Finnish victory. So I agree with the reduced VP
value for the Airfield.
#Post#: 634--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: pilotofficerprune
Date: November 30, 2018, 2:21 pm
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That's a heck of a lot of Pe-2s getting the axe.
I realise you haven't had exactly balanced results, but are you
ready to sign off on this, or do you feel you need another
playthrough?
#Post#: 646--------------------------------------------------
Re: E07 Red Star, Blue Swastika
DIR By: Elias Nordling
Date: December 2, 2018, 1:08 pm
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--- Quote ---
> That's a heck of a lot of Pe-2s getting the axe.
--- End Quote ---
Did you remember that they are low drag, and thus fight with
strength 5 even with bomb load?
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