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#Post#: 638--------------------------------------------------
Proposed changes to Slows
By: GM-Reaver Date: March 4, 2019, 5:29 pm
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So the staff team was talking last week about slow spells across
the board, and one idea came up that we'd like community input
on.
Currently, most slow spells are magic-based, with a couple
specialized exceptions being disease-based.
From a design perspective, this leads to us having to make mobs
with higher magic resists -- or nearby friends who buff them --
to make slows landable and still somewhat challenging. This has
an unintended consequence of making all other magic-based spells
harder to resist as well, including other debuffs and damages
(DoTs and nukes)
So, the thought we had was to make each class that is capable of
casting a slow spell, focused on a particular resist type. For
example:
Enchanter - magic based
Shaman - disease based
Beastlord - poison based
Cleric/Pal/Necro - either poison or magic based (undetermined at
this time)
ALL slow spells for these classes would be based on that resist
type. The thought behind this is that it helps each of the
classes stand out a bit more in this field, and gives the
design team some more interesting options by making certain mobs
more resistant to a particular type of magic class. This would
have the effect of making certain kinds of slower classes more
beneficial in certain circumstances, as their slows would land
easier than other types.
This is not to say that other slower classes are useless -- just
they would have a somewhat increased chance of slow being
resisted (against certain mobs only) compared to the other
slower-types.
So, what do you all think? Would you like to see each class who
can cast slows specialize in a particular kind of slowing?
#Post#: 645--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: Peete Date: March 4, 2019, 6:14 pm
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I like this idea. I would ask that you also consider that if the
class casting slow can debuff that they can't debuff the stat
they can cast slow. For example, shaman lower disease resist s
make their slow poison based, chanters can lower magic resists
so make theirs cold based... something along those lines that
way other debuff classes are needed.
#Post#: 650--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: GM-Reaver Date: March 4, 2019, 6:23 pm
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[quote author=Peete link=topic=296.msg645#msg645
date=1551744880]
I like this idea. I would ask that you also consider that if the
class casting slow can debuff that they can't debuff the stat
they can cast slow. For example, shaman lower disease resist s
make their slow poison based, chanters can lower magic resists
so make theirs cold based... something along those lines that
way other debuff classes are needed.
[/quote]
In a raid setting, absolutely. For a single group, I'm not so
sure.
#Post#: 651--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: Dolmir Date: March 4, 2019, 6:37 pm
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I don't see anything wrong with this proposed change except for
the overlap of slow spells available to Beastlords and Shaman.
I'm assuming that the Shaman/Beastlord slows would be restricted
to Shaman as part of the changes.
That said, I think this is not addressing the core problem that
existing slows present to the game: if you design encounters to
be difficult while mobs are slowed by 50% then they will become
impossible without slow and probably trivial with 75% slow. On
the other hand if you design them to be merely difficult without
slow it then then will be trivial with even a modest slow. This
is why in original EQ they eventually resorted to slow
resistance or outright immunity. I think this did not go far
enough: my recommendation is to reduce the effectiveness of all
slows to a maximum of 30%. I believe this would make slow still
very good but not totally game-changing.
Here's a question about damage and tanking:
For every 1000 damage taken by a Warrior, how much should a
Knight take?
Chain class?
Monk?
Leather class?
Cloth caster?
I don't know what my exact numbers would be, but here are some
that I feel are reasonable
Knight: 1100
Chain/Monk: 1400
Leather: 1600
Cloth: 2000
If you agree that these numbers seem reasonable, then even 30%
slow should still feel too strong because it rivals the
Warrior's entire advantage in damage mitigation compared to a
second-rate tank. More-or-less the entire point of the class
that is being rivaled by a single spell available to another
class.
#Post#: 652--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: GM-Reaver Date: March 4, 2019, 8:07 pm
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Slow %'s have already been adjusted, and should be a bit more in
line with the intended content difficulty. We expect to be done
with the large changes, and any future changes will likely be
small tweaks, in this area.
#Post#: 653--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: Dolmir Date: March 4, 2019, 9:22 pm
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I didn't think that the slows had been changed because my
character window still shows 25% haste when I have Turgur's
Swarm/Insects on. Will an update to spells file fix this?
I did a quick test and found that Turgur's Insects most likely
applies 50% slow now. I think this is a good change but I fear
that even at this level slow will have the same polarizing
effect on enemy damage output.
#Post#: 655--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: whoopinstik Date: March 5, 2019, 11:49 am
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I dont think the balance of WHO can slow is an issue. With a
small population and a 2box limit, shamans became popular. I
would keep the slowing classes the same. Chanter/Sham/Bst/Brd
for everything and necro for undead. They all have kits unique
to their class and that isnt broken. Just the diversity of the
classes because of how the server developed.
With that said, I think dividing the element of the slow is a
good idea.
Enchanter - magic based
Shaman - disease based
Beastlord - poison based
Necro - undead only (consider event bosses immune to all but
necro slows.)
Bard - jack of all trades slow but 20-25%.
AA Slow - stay instant/unresist and across the board like Bard
OR just a spell gem replacement AA to save room and mana (like
Live).
This would stimulate diversifying alts for those that have been
around a while since the server will still continue to see
growth favoring a slower/healer over other choices.
#Post#: 657--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: Nefemunia Date: March 5, 2019, 2:10 pm
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[quote author=Dolmir link=topic=296.msg653#msg653
date=1551756136]
I didn't think that the slows had been changed because my
character window still shows 25% haste when I have Turgur's
Swarm/Insects on. Will an update to spells file fix this?
I did a quick test and found that Turgur's Insects most likely
applies 50% slow now. I think this is a good change but I fear
that even at this level slow will have the same polarizing
effect on enemy damage output.
[/quote]
the UI tools lie, if you die a timed parse via log you will see
the difference
#Post#: 662--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: Goraug Date: March 6, 2019, 12:20 am
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I like the idea of giving each class that can slow a unique
certain resist that they can slow. But also think say if
Enchanter slow is magic based they should have a magic debuff to
try to help land it. Depending on where you go npcs will have
higher resists to certain saves. So in the end it will take care
of itself and i do not think you need to handicap classes with
not allowing them to cast a debuff for their specific resist
class.
#Post#: 663--------------------------------------------------
Re: Proposed changes to Slows
By: GM-Reaver Date: March 6, 2019, 7:42 am
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[quote author=whoopinstik link=topic=296.msg655#msg655
date=1551808140]
AA Slow - stay instant/unresist and across the board like Bard
OR just a spell gem replacement AA to save room and mana (like
Live).
[/quote]
Picking out a piece of the comment for side-discussion and
clarification. (This is off-topic of this thread)
Regarding AA slow, the vision for this ability is to provide a
kind of pre-slow for difficult encounters, such as raid bosses
or tough group bosses. The purpose was to have some kind of
minor slow in place while the players work to land a 'real' slow
such as turgur's or similar. Knowing the intent of the AA may
help explain why the ability had to be modified in such a
drastic way.
That said, I don't think we're going to see an AA like described
by whoopinstik. The intent here is not to replace a spell gem,
but to augment a group or raid's capabilities for taking down
tough encounters.
Like it or not, the limit on number of spell gems forces players
to prioritize their combat role. Overall, I think this is a
good thing. Adding AA's that can replace critical spells on the
spell gems bar is part of what leads to class homogenization
like we see in WoW and all the other clones.
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