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#Post#: 2134--------------------------------------------------
Changed triple clamp setting.
By: Guymcfly Date: November 24, 2014, 6:00 pm
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I just had some time on my hands so I stripped off the triple
clamps and reversed them. They are now set to 22 degrees as
opposed to the 24 the bike was delivered with.
I try it out and see how it handles and report back.
#Post#: 2137--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: mcnut Date: November 25, 2014, 2:23 am
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Alright, looking forward to your results.
Bruce
#Post#: 2215--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: mcnut Date: December 17, 2014, 12:01 pm
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Any update on how this worked out?
I've had an issue of my 09 front end wanting to knife/plough at
the first sign of an even slightly soft surface, soft sand is
outright horrible. My brain is trying to tell me that moving the
axel back (reducing the offset), closer to the steering pivot
(24mm to 22mm) should ease this tendency @ the cost of losing
some steering lock angle.
Bruce
#Post#: 2217--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: Mcridr Date: December 17, 2014, 4:01 pm
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There are lots of variables here. Make sure the sag, front and
rear, is set correctly for your body weight first. If either end
is off your bike can push or knife into corners. Changing the
triple clamp setting can/will add to this problem. I like my
enduro bikes to handle a little quicker when trail riding but my
street bikes need to be neutral. All of this can be changed with
spring settings, fork placement in the triple clamps and stuff
you have loaded on the rack or tank. Your suspension the most
important part on your bike and is also the most overlooked. So
Rather than get into some long explanation here is a link that
explains it with very little pain to the brain.
HTML http://bikearama.com/theory/motorcycle-rake-trail-explained/
#Post#: 2224--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: mcrider Date: December 18, 2014, 2:42 pm
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I have set my rear, but cannot find the recommended range for
the front. What is it?
#Post#: 2225--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: mcnut Date: December 19, 2014, 2:18 am
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The OP was about changing the fork offset by reversing an
eccentric mount the steering stem uses. Doing so changes the
offset by 2mm (not degrees) which moves the fork tubes 2mm
closer to the centerline of the steering stem. In theory this
should slow the steering, add stability and I hope reduce the
tendency for the front to knife on soft surfaces. The negative
is with the tubes further back they will interfere with the
frame sooner which means less steering lock, something the 690
is already shockingly short of.
Sure suspension setup plays a huge roll but the variable being
discussed here is fork offset.
Bruce
#Post#: 2494--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: Guymcfly Date: March 1, 2015, 7:10 am
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Sorry about the delay in posting my results about this. West Oz
get shockingly hot over summer and hit about 115 in the shade,
so I did what any self respecting rider does....put the bike in
the shed and went to Japan for 3 months and spent my time
snowboarding.
Ok, so today was my first ride back. What did I find?
I always find 1st ride back I'm not up to race speed, so I took
it easy but still went out on my usual enduro type terrain. Baja
rocks, the famous west Oz ball bearings (pea gravel) and sand.
Big wash out gravel beds with jutting rocks, and nothing flat
other than a couple of washboard gravel roads. I neglected to do
any single track today tho.
I should again point out, apart from short bitumen sections to
trails, I only use the bike the way the factory intended...as a
big thumper in the vein of the big Honda's and other desert
bikes. I think it would by crap as a dual sport, but each to
their own as I know many people do happily dual sport them.
Whatever floats your boat I always say.
Tires were run at 20 psi front, a Pirelli scorpion mx mid hard.
Rear an Ed 78 also on 20psi. The front is halfway to its use by
date, rear is new. Tub lists up front, UHD behind.
Bike ecu is set to wild, open Airbox, O2 censor disconnected,
15/45 gearing. Wings can, Suspension is Ohlins rear and Sxf
closed cartridge front (16mm push thru). I was a little
concerned about the geometry of the bike having changed the
triple position. I may try some subtle changes with the mm of
the forks thru the clamps, but that's for later.
I found the bike initially did feel a little different. Strange
to say it, but it did feel more compact. I noticed a faster
response when steering, I guess became it now just a little
shorter. It was easier to turn the bike via locking the rear
wheel in gravel and weight shifting to thro the rear out before
grabbing the gas to finish the 180. Fun, but I was well used to
it turning on its old clamp setting so the difference was well
evident. More 'flick able' was what I felt.
Riding fast on (very) rutted and rough gravel roads, I found no
feeling of the front end pushing into corners or feeling
unpredictable, other than the fact my front rubber is getting
worn and its not a tire I'd run again. It's ok, but not my fav.
I'll go back to a battle cross next time. Some rocky hills gave
things a good trial, with some nice gravel beds and washouts as
well. A little pogoing between front and rear wheels was noticed
as I launched a bit off rocks but that's more my lack of riding
in the last few months ( not getting my butt into the correct
position) or a suspension tweak. Small stuff but I was trying to
by very analytical for the write up. Same for a couple of series
of whoops, but by the second set I'd slid back a bit and no
control issues were noticed.
What else? Turning the big orange beast...I always get on the
noise to spin the rear around so any loss of turning ability is
not really a big thing. No feelings of rear end swapping over
whoops, felt like it was a little easier to lift the front wheel
when I wanted, or maybe I just forgot how easy that is on the
big girl.
To try to sum up the general feeling of change I noticed with
this, I'd say it felt a bit more nimble for such a bike on hard
terrain (mind you, I think the 690 is an easy bike to ride even
on very harsh terrain. I always say, try a 500cc two stroke, a
kick only xr650r that you've dropped and flooded, on a steep
hillside) and you realise how well mannered and set up they are.
6 km of tar to get home fast, I think the trade off became
apparent. Not so nice for the black top...I noticed more bounce
via the rim lock up the front. But having spent years on exc's
and xr650r's which occasionally got a run down the highway it
was not a big issue considering how close I am to trails.
A good change? For my type of riding, definitely, it was a good
noticeable difference.
#Post#: 2497--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: mcnut Date: March 2, 2015, 1:47 pm
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Thanks for taking the time to write the review so others can
benefit.
Still a little unclear if going from 24mm to 22mm would help my
complaint of front kniffing and then plowing on soft (sandy)
surfaces. My 690 (24mm) is not anywhere near as
stable/predictable in soft sand at medium speeds as my 04 525EXC
for example.
Any thoughts on this after the change to 22mm?
Bruce
#Post#: 2499--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: Guymcfly Date: March 2, 2015, 8:06 pm
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Firstly I don't find my 690 as stable in deep soft sand as
either exc of Sxf bikes were, until I really crank the speed.
Then I think the greater rolling mass helps to stabilise the
bike. It's always going to plough a little more in corners
because of the nature of the surface and the greater mass will
have an effect on pushing a bike thru a soft surface. I'm going
to try to get out onto a nice deep sandy area I know of this
week and do some hands on testing for you. I did noticed when I
first hit the deep gravel (very soft ball bearing shaped crap) I
was on a fair downward trail and had to do a fairly hard up off
camber turn.
With trail junk there was every opportunity of the bike to push
thru the turn but noticed nothing. I always felt the bike had
wanted to drop into corners a little, but just cornered it in
the mx way...hard weight to outside peg, shift butt to upper
side of tank, get well over the bars and gas/clutch control. I
do notice I can front brake skid easier...more weigh directly
over the front axle perhaps? Note in the below section from Emig
Racing his use of the term 'chopper end out'.
In the interim, this is from Gary Emig of Emig Racing, and is
one of the best explanations on offset I've read.
"KTM produces a line of excellent motorcycles, however, there
are a few steering geometry problems. Changing the offset of the
triple clamps can have a tremendous effect on the bike. However,
to rely on this solely is naive. I lend my opinion to our
customers everyday regarding what is the "right" offset to use.
Well, the answer is always different and affected by many
factors.
Things to consider when changing offset:
BIKE: This is not too significant, but, a lot of riders notice a
dramatic change in steering when changing from a 2 stroke to a 4
stroke for the first time. The 4 stroke has to be ridden
entirely different, which takes some time.
SAG: We have noticed that the new KTM's come with around
115-120mm of sag. With that much sag, it gives the bike a very
slow steer feeling. It is a reason why a lot of riders say the
bike doesn't turn. It creates a sluggish feeling to the bike.
When you get the sag set properly, (no more than 100mm is
plenty), you get the attitude of the chassis correct and it
helps it to turn. With too much sag, it makes the front end
"choppered out" or too much outward angle in the fork. It can be
adjusted and with various suspension settings the bike can have
a totally different feel to it.
TRAIL: Some opinions are that trail creates stability. If that
were a true statement and trail is what helps stability, why
wouldn't we all use 10mm offset clamps? If trail is the most
important factor, than why do the Japanese bikes all run 22 -
24.7mm of offset? Keeping in mind that they all, including KTM,
have around the same degree of steering angle in the frame
(approx. 26 degrees.)
Let's take a KTM450 with 18mm clamps on it, switch it to 22mm,
why is there a noticeable increase of chassis stability and
handling characteristics? Example: For years and years, Kawasaki
has had 22mm offset clamps and nobody complained about the
handling. It was always a great turner and had great straight
line stability. Then in 2003, they made a slight change in their
steering angle degree and went to 24.7mm offset. Immediately the
bike still turns fantastic and has great stability. No one
complains about the chassis of the KX. I'm trying to show a
comparison in the relation of offset clamps to having the
chassis set right.
FRONT TIRE: With the wrong tire on the front, it creates many
bad habits that get blamed on the offset. KTM's like a more
aggressive front tire, to help reduce the knifing effect, that
is commonly attributed to less offset. The wrong tire makes the
bike wash out easier, not giving it good stability. Washing out
also gets blamed on offset.
I realize some people disagree with these opinions, but being
both riders and in the clamp business, these are points we have
found to be of real significance. Factors vary with many chassis
setups, suspension, and riding style. Every rider demands a
different response from the bike. There is an appropriate offset
for every style. Each rider need to know his style, type of
riding and what he is looking for his bike to do. Here at ER,
you can be assured we can help you to get the offset that suits
you and your individual style.
And in closing, Emig Racing rides KTM's, too. We have tested on
our own 250MXC, 300 EXC, 380 EXC, 400EXC, 450EXC, 520EXC and
525EXC. In every condition" Motocross, Woods, Desert and Trail.
Sand, Tight Woods and Extremely Rocky.
I thoroughly enjoy my KTM and want you to, also. Give us a call,
we're here to help."
#Post#: 2500--------------------------------------------------
Re: Changed triple clamp setting.
By: Guymcfly Date: March 2, 2015, 8:10 pm
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By "front brake skid" I mean as a control exercise to relearn
its lock point...moving forward with the front wheel skidding
across a loose surface. It's something I do for every tire or
suspension (or bike) change.
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