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#Post#: 1499--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: GSP Date: August 4, 2014, 6:11 pm
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with PC5 it dont matter what the dealer loaded, the OEM 02
sensor will no longer have any control,,, significantly cooler
and very noticeable at idle:
Here is my Autotuned fuel map, use it, however it is for a
slip-on and modified air box:
www.finitesite.com/partong/KTMEnduroAutoTune1Aug2014a.pvm
#Post#: 1536--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: dasklein Date: August 11, 2014, 7:59 pm
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Thanks Again GSP. I've been waiting for a good FI solution!
Installed my PC5 over the weekend – way smoother mapping and
slightly cooler temps (so lean from the factory!). I still may
be slightly on the lean side (open air filter and exhaust mods).
The extra timing also makes mid range awesome. Bike pulls very
well through the full RPM range.
Hope to get it on the DYNO soon, and interest to see how auto
tune shapes up.
#Post#: 1537--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: GSP Date: August 11, 2014, 8:36 pm
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Cool, remember, since it is fly by wire, you must set the
throttle position sensor while the engine is running in neutral,
push the button to re-calibrate TPS in the PCV software and just
very quickly pop the throttle to 100%, this is clearly evident
when you compare 100% throttle voltage displayed by PCV, engine
off vers engine on...
#Post#: 1540--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: dasklein Date: August 11, 2014, 9:04 pm
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BTW, for those installing, the PC5 fits neatly under the OEM ECU
cover.
[URL=
HTML http://s24.photobucket.com/user/dasklein/media/KTM/2014-08-08-191117_zpse7f95124.jpg.html][IMG]http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c31/dasklein/KTM/2014-08-08-191117_zpse7f95124.jpg[/img][/URL]
#Post#: 1541--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: dasklein Date: August 11, 2014, 9:45 pm
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[quote] could you elaborate on the relationship between octane
and spark advance? [/quote]
Higher octane fuels help prevent preignition, allowing for
advancing timing and/or more compression. For us out in CA and
AZ, the increased methanol requires a bit more fuel and slightly
different timing or higher octane... So these bikes often run
especially lean in CA!
[quote]I had the dealer re-map my ECU to the EU maps. [/quote]
It's likely that the dealer installed the Akropovic map, not an
EU map. The akro map was a good step on both my old SMC and my
new ER, but still pretty conservative for opening exhaust and
intake. My SMC ran waaay too lean with only the Akro map.
[quote]with PC5 it don't matter what the dealer loaded, the OEM
02 sensor will no longer have any control,,, [/quote]
All due respect, this may not be entirely true... The PC's add
more (or less) fuel + timing to whatever the base parameters
(map) are. Since the PC's (in our case) don't directly interface
with the ECU tables and we remove the O2, we're essentially
turning a closed loop system into an open loop system (unless
you run auto tune). I'm not 100% sure what the Akro map changes,
but I'm guessing it changes the both the open and closed loop
tables. Moreover, since we're "fooling" the ECU into thinking
there is an O2, the bike's ECU goes into closed loop anyways
once normal operating temp is reached.
[quote]Cool, remember, since it is fly by wire, you must set the
throttle position sensor while the engine is running in neutral,
push the button to re-calibrate TPS in the PCV software and just
very quickly pop the throttle to 100%, this is clearly evident
when you compare 100% throttle voltage displayed by PCV, engine
off vers engine on...[/quote]
Great reminder GSP. This is important for ALL FI installs, not
just Fly By Wires. The TPS should always be calibrated. In my
experience, idle is usually fine, but WOT is slightly off based
on the base voltage... Usually TPS calibration does not need to
be done with the engine running since it's just calibrating the
voltage range.
#Post#: 1545--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: GSP Date: August 12, 2014, 2:09 pm
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On this 2014 KTM 690, if you calibrate TPS with engine off it
will not be correct,,, try it,,,, engine off in neutral, engine
off in gear and you will see a TPS voltage limit, like 3.xxx
volts max in neutral and less in gear at WOT, fire it up watch
the TPS output voltage when you twist the throttle and you will
be surprised... power commander stipulates on paper that fly by
wire motorcycles should be running for TPS calibration and is
the case for this bike...
#Post#: 1546--------------------------------------------------
PC5 Map with Stock Air Filter and Exhaust
By: Maribo Date: August 12, 2014, 5:39 pm
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My PC5 came today so I am ready to rock! I would like to change
things one at a time, starting with stock air and exhaust, but
with PC5 added. Then add my Wings muffler, changing the map
accordingly. Then, with a opened-up air box, and appropriate
map. My question is, what map to use with the stock air and
exhaust. I understand that the PC 5 comes with a map for stock
air and exhaust already loaded, so I theoretically don't have to
change anything for step 1. However, I noticed that while the
stock air and exhaust map (M18-016-001.pvm) adds fuel in a a lot
of places, it also leans it in others. Since the idea is to
lessen the overly-lean factory settings, leaning it still
further seems to be doing the opposite. Should I change the
negative values to zero, or are they there for a good reason?
Also, there are no ignition changes in the stock air and exhaust
map. Is it OK to advance the timing 2-3 degrees, or should I
wait until I add the Wings exhaust?
And thanks for bringing up the subject of spark advance and
octane relationship. I researched it and learned a lot!
Best,
#Post#: 1548--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: dasklein Date: August 12, 2014, 10:33 pm
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[quote]On this 2014 KTM 690, if you calibrate TPS with engine
off it will not be correct,,, try it,,,, engine off in neutral,
engine off in gear and you will see a TPS voltage limit, like
3.xxx volts max in neutral and less in gear at WOT, fire it up
watch the TPS output voltage when you twist the throttle and you
will be surprised... power commander stipulates on paper that
fly by wire motorcycles should be running for TPS calibration
and is the case for this bike...[/quote]
Yeah, GSP. I noticed that. Very interesting. I wonder if the air
is metered somehow (like MAF). These are new TB's, so I don't
much about them. I also saw that they want you to only test on a
dyno... Maybe they want the motor under load too.
#Post#: 1550--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: dasklein Date: August 12, 2014, 11:13 pm
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[quote]My PC5 came today so I am ready to rock! I would like to
change things one at a time, starting with stock air and
exhaust, but with PC5 added. Then add my Wings muffler,
changing the map accordingly. Then, with a opened-up air box,
and appropriate map. My question is, what map to use with the
stock air and exhaust. I understand that the PC 5 comes with a
map for stock air and exhaust already loaded, so I theoretically
don't have to change anything for step 1. However, I noticed
that while the stock air and exhaust map (M18-016-001.pvm) adds
fuel in a a lot of places, it also leans it in others. Since
the idea is to lessen the overly-lean factory settings, leaning
it still further seems to be doing the opposite. Should I
change the negative values to zero, or are they there for a good
reason?
Also, there are no ignition changes in the stock air and exhaust
map. Is it OK to advance the timing 2-3 degrees, or should I
wait until I add the Wings exhaust?
And thanks for bringing up the subject of spark advance and
octane relationship. I researched it and learned a lot![/quote]
Hey Maribo,
Yeah, that should be easy to do.
For stock intake/exhaust: For the most part, since the PC's are
"piggy back" systems, you should be able to hook it all up and
just zero out all the tables in on a base map. And if you leave
the O2 hooked up, it's likely that the bike won't be any
different than OEM. In essence, you're not changing anything
from oem. (just make sure to terminate the O2 with the provided
resistor plug if you alter tables, or it will fight the PC with
FI duty cycle changes)
Based on how it looks, it's likely that dynojet's "stock map" is
just a very small tune (like "chipping" a stock car). A little
timing and fuel really does help. It's hard to say why they
removed fuel in area. The Duke's do have different air boxes and
exhaust systems, so maybe DJ noticed something on the dyno that
day (off throttle condition, maybe?). Most companies test a few
of the same machines and average out a conservative tune for
of-the-shelf. As I think GSP mentioned, any experience with
these bikes would probably make me want to take the negative
values out of the "stock" PC map and see how she feels.
Adding timing will likely increase EGT's, so I'm not sure I'd go
there with that huge heat box of an OEM cat/muffler. Who knows,
maybe I'm being too conservative... There may be folks here with
more 690/thumper experience that can chime in. You could always
bump it 1-2º, and check with an infrared temp gauge to see how
much it increases. Or if it pings, you'll also know.
For the other mods, you may want to check out the auto tune. It
won't get you the most HP, but that wideband O2 should certainly
help the PC keep A/F in check. I think GSP's map is a great
place to start. I made a few guesses and tweaks to it, but for
the most part, the bike ran awesome during a 80-100mi ride last
weekend. (btw, I only lost about 1-2mpg)
Personally, I'm excited to see what the 14's do on the Dyno. And
in my experience being around tuners for a number of years,
there is no magic map to download. There are way too many
variables (temp, humidity, elevation, etc), and I've seen the
same machine with basically the same mods react differently to
tunes. You just can't beat the dyno to find where the limits
are.
Hope that helps.
#Post#: 1559--------------------------------------------------
Re: New Slip On and PC5 on 2014
By: Maribo Date: August 14, 2014, 4:11 pm
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I installed the PC5 this morning with the map it came with; that
is, the one for stock muffler and air box. I couldn't tell any
difference in performance, or much in temperature. This riding
is put-putting around town - a lot of stop and go. Then I
loaded a version of the same map with the negative numbers
changed to zeros. Maybe a little lower running temperature.
Then I added the 3% fuel close to idle, so I now have GSP's
original fuel map with no timing advance. I think somewhat
cooler running, maybe. The fan doesn't come on as often at
stoplights, but it still comes on at various times. It is about
80 degrees F ambient temperature.
So now I have put the wings muffler on. I am wondering if I
still have to do the 15-minute idle. Went for a ride, anyway: a
bit more pull in the mid-range. Runs hotter, if anything. Then
I added 2 degrees spark advance according to GSP's first map. I
think it definitely is running hotter. The fan comes on more,
sometimes not even sitting at stop-lights. Steady on the tenth
notch out of 12 on the temperature gauge. Does this make sense?
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