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DIR Return to: BIBLE STUDY - From The Late Lori Bolinger
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#Post#: 12314--------------------------------------------------
What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest24 Date: April 23, 2020, 7:28 am
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In another thread, it was pointed out that some believe that
Judas was not a true believer....this got me wondering when and
if the 12 disciples were saved. If no one was saved before the
death and resurrection of Christ, what were they (salvation
wise) while disciples? If they could only be saved after Christ
rose, where is the proverbial sinners prayer that would let us
know they got it?
As I see it, we have three options.
1. they were true believers the moment they believed that Christ
was the Messiah....which I am leaning towards given that Abraham
for example had his belief counted as righteousness.
2. they were not saved until after Christ rose from the dead,
but would that mean they were saved the moment He rose and what
do we do with the thief on the cross beside Christ?
3. They had to say the sinners prayer like so many churches
believe today and I don't see that in scripture.....
What do you all think?
#Post#: 12335--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest8 Date: April 23, 2020, 11:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=908.msg12314#msg12314
date=1587644915]
In another thread, it was pointed out that some believe that
Judas was not a true believer....this got me wondering when and
if the 12 disciples were saved. If no one was saved before the
death and resurrection of Christ, what were they (salvation
wise) while disciples? If they could only be saved after Christ
rose, where is the proverbial sinners prayer that would let us
know they got it?
As I see it, we have three options.
1. they were true believers the moment they believed that Christ
was the Messiah....which I am leaning towards given that Abraham
for example had his belief counted as righteousness.
2. they were not saved until after Christ rose from the dead,
but would that mean they were saved the moment He rose and what
do we do with the thief on the cross beside Christ?
3. They had to say the sinners prayer like so many churches
believe today and I don't see that in scripture.....
What do you all think?
[/quote]
Rem, the Gospel of Christ did not happen until His death, burial
and Resurrection. His Half Brother James did not believe in Him
until He was on the Cross.
Lori, They believed in Jesus and I am sure they were saved yet
they did not receive the Holy Spirit until Acts 2. Like in the
OLD Testament, until the Church was born resulting in the
indwelling Holy Spirit, the believers in God (Jesus) received
His Grace with the Holy Spirit teaching, guiding and protecting
them from the outside.
Abraham received God's Grace because He believed? The same tune
with a twist in the New Testament.
I don't believe in the sinners prayer. It only is used to help
the pastor count heads which is bad unto itself.
Blade
#Post#: 12344--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest24 Date: April 24, 2020, 8:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Not sure why you brought the HS into the discussion but yes,
thank you
Maybe you will enter one of my many discussions about the HS
sometimes.
#Post#: 12345--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest8 Date: April 24, 2020, 9:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=908.msg12344#msg12344
date=1587733519]
Not sure why you brought the HS into the discussion but yes,
thank you
Maybe you will enter one of my many discussions about the HS
sometimes.
[/quote]
I did not figure it would answer your question...I really am not
sure what you are seeking?
God is and was present at all times by the HS and is a huge part
of the salvation you ask about?
Blade
#Post#: 12346--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest24 Date: April 24, 2020, 10:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=908.msg12345#msg12345
date=1587740362]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=908.msg12344#msg12344
date=1587733519]
Not sure why you brought the HS into the discussion but yes,
thank you
Maybe you will enter one of my many discussions about the HS
sometimes.
[/quote]
I did not figure it would answer your question...I really am not
sure what you are seeking?
God is and was present at all times by the HS and is a huge part
of the salvation you ask about?
Blade
[/quote]No clue what you are going on about now...but such is
life.
#Post#: 12740--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest116 Date: May 7, 2020, 9:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My belief has always been that the minute the disciples accepted
their mission to learn from Jesus and follow him on his mission
they were saved. It is hard for Mr to believe they could serve
Jesus if they were not also saved by and through that service.
But that is just how I view it looking at the totality of it.
#Post#: 12748--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: patrick jane Date: May 8, 2020, 4:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=908.msg12740#msg12740 date=1588905639]
My belief has always been that the minute the disciples accepted
their mission to learn from Jesus and follow him on his mission
they were saved. It is hard for Mr to believe they could serve
Jesus if they were not also saved by and through that service.
But that is just how I view it looking at the totality of it.
[/quote]I agree
#Post#: 12751--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest24 Date: May 8, 2020, 10:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
The question arose because of someone in the OSAS crowd
declaring that Jesus could "lose" Judas because he was never
saved in the first place because Jesus had not yet died and rose
again...something I wholeheartedly disagree with according to
how the passage is written.
#Post#: 12752--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest8 Date: May 8, 2020, 10:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=908.msg12751#msg12751
date=1588950711]
The question arose because of someone in the OSAS crowd
declaring that Jesus could "lose" Judas because he was never
saved in the first place because Jesus had not yet died and rose
again...something I wholeheartedly disagree with according to
how the passage is written.
[/quote]
questions for you to narrow down your thoughts.
1. The disciples: is this in reference to the twelve Apostles or
does it consider the thousands of disciples that followed him?
2. If it is for the first eleven (for Judas was not saved at any
time), do you have a preference in a particular
Apostle.....(i.e. Jesus Half Brother (James) did not believe
Jesus was the messiah until the day of his death)?
3. Does your question accept "belief in Jesus CHrist" as being
Saved or are they two different events?
Hope you get to feeling better.
Blade
#Post#: 12755--------------------------------------------------
Re: What and when were the disciples saved?
By: guest125 Date: May 8, 2020, 10:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps not many people look at it this way, but there is a
duality to all things in that there is a physical element to
everything around us, and then there is the spiritual reality-
which offers a broader understanding. Hidden within the mystery
of this duality, there exists a polarity. Some people think of
this as symmetry which isn't entirely wrong, but you have to
understand that it is symmetry in opposition. I don't want to
distract from your conversation beyond an example of what I
mean...
Without fear, courage doesn't exist.
What I mean is that if you are not afraid, then to act is
nothing more than action or response. However if you are filled
with fear, then to act is truly courageous. It's bravery. And
bravery doesn't ever appear absent of fear. Do you understand?
It is the same with faith. Faith without fear is no faith at
all. Another way of saying being afraid within this context is
'doubt.' It's not an oxymoron to say that faith doesn't exist
without doubt. Faith is acting despite your doubt-- it is the
same as courage (acting despite your fear).
The disciples were saved the moment they were called, not by any
act of their own beyond 'turning.'
It's like the proverbial man who fell off the cliff's edge and
who is clinging to the branch--- utterly without hope unless
someone comes to his aid. The Search Crew arrives looking for
him, calling.... and when the man cries out-- "Here! Down here!
--he is saved.
He 'hearkens' to the call. He turns toward his salvation... and
this is the beginning of repentance. Turning and tuning.
Yes, he must now learn to obey the instructions he is given
(grab the rope, secure the harness, trust the Rescuer) but his
salvation had come the moment he hearkened the call and cried
out.
The disciples were ordinary people in every way. Full of doubt,
prone to error and 'saved' not because of what they were, but
despite what they were.
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