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DIR Return to: EVANGELISM & THEOLOGY
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#Post#: 16125--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest116 Date: August 12, 2020, 11:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on
who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.
Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry
about them and give guidance when asked. If they are passed,
nothing I can do to change there status.
However, it is a great topic for discussion. Do you really
feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas? I mean there
was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of
them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for
Christ to die for usand save us from sin.
Just courious on that part.
#Post#: 16132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: August 13, 2020, 5:29 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg16124#msg16124
date=1597292036]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg12800#msg12800
date=1589029529]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg12798#msg12798
date=1589006294]
The Great Tribulation is the end time persecution that Jesus
warned us to expect. The root of the word tribulation is
trouble. As when Jesus was born in Bethlehem and Herod was
greatly troubled and all Jerusalem with him. Troublation comes
from man, the picture is Jacob fleeing in great fear back to his
homeland with Laban in hot pursuit and with meeting Esau who had
vowed to kill him in prospect. But God was protecting Jacob.
Until you distinguish between the prophecies that deal with
Israel's FALL and the prophecies that deal with Israel's RISE
you will continue to jumble up prophecy.
[/quote]
So you are basing your salvation on a theory that GOD will save
all ISrael, all those Jews who have lived....Does this include,
Esau, Ishmael, etc...
Blade
Whatever "ALL" means it certainly doesn't mean only a 1/3rd. I
am happy to let the Lord decide about Esau and Ishmael, I don't
believe they are damned. On the other hand it is certain that
Judas Iscariot was not saved, he is called the son of perdition.
Paul's statement "ALL Israel will be saved" is difficult to
weigh.
[/quote]
God said He stated Esau. I doubt that He is saved.
Blade
[/quote]
God says we must hate our mother and our father ... even our own
life.
The statement simply means Jacob was preferred over Esau for the
BLESSING not for salvation. Election is to be conformed to
Christ, to be a blessing to the world, not unto salvation per
se. Though of course we must be saved in order for that to
happen.
... but it does not exclude anyone else from being saved.
#Post#: 16133--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: August 13, 2020, 5:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=879.msg16125#msg16125 date=1597292615]
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on
who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.
Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry
about them and give guidance when asked. If they are pasted,
nothing I can do to change there status.
However, it is a great topic for discussion. Do you really
feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas? I mean there
was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of
them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for
Christ to die for usand save us from sin.
Just courious on that part.
[/quote]
My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from
judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new
creation. Everyone else will be judged.
.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats.
And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign,
AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven
and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.
#Post#: 16151--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest8 Date: August 13, 2020, 8:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=879.msg16125#msg16125 date=1597292615]
Maybe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on
who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.
Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry
about them and give guidance when asked. If they are pasted,
nothing I can do to change there status.
However, it is a great topic for discussion. Do you really
feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas? I mean there
was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of
them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for
Christ to die for usand save us from sin.
Just courious on that part.
[/quote]
Hi. Mark, must have missed this post.
First, what do you mean by "pasted" just wanted to know.
Second, Judas killed himself preventing any salvation. For after
death there is no salvation until maybe the White Throne
Judgment.
Caiaphas on the other hand did not change and did not lead His
people to Jesus. I doubt very seriously if He was saved.
Pontius Pilate did suspect or Know that Jesus was the true
Messiah of Israel. He wrote in three languages on the Name plate
of Jesus at the cross, Jesus the Nazarine, King of the Jews. He
also according to scripture does not appear to be surprised that
Jesus would not and was not there after three days. I believe He
will be one in Heaven, I will get Pontius Pilate to see.
Blade
#Post#: 16152--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest8 Date: August 13, 2020, 8:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg16133#msg16133
date=1597314841]
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=879.msg16125#msg16125 date=1597292615]
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on
who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.
Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry
about them and give guidance when asked. If they are pasted,
nothing I can do to change there status.
However, it is a great topic for discussion. Do you really
feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas? I mean there
was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of
them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for
Christ to die for usand save us from sin.
Just courious on that part.
[/quote]
My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from
judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new
creation. Everyone else will be judged.
.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats.
And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign,
AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven
and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.
[/quote]
Billy.. who is the WE that have been passed over....Your sins
will be accounted for and judged unless you accept Jesus Christ
as you Lord and Savior.
The White Throne Judgment is the last judgment. The Sheep and
Goats are those people in those nations that befriended Israel
or NOT! It takes place prior to the Millennium. Those Sheep will
the the gentile nations that will live through the millennium.
The goats will have been killed and thrown into Hell...to await
another 1,000 years for judgment.
Your having a problem getting things in order where before you
had no problems in this area. Are you OK!
Blade
#Post#: 16227--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest116 Date: August 14, 2020, 1:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I meant passed, as in passed away, note paste. Sorry failed to
proof read.
#Post#: 16230--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: August 14, 2020, 4:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg16152#msg16152
date=1597326513]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg16133#msg16133
date=1597314841]
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=879.msg16125#msg16125 date=1597292615]
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on
who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.
Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry
about them and give guidance when asked. If they are pasted,
nothing I can do to change there status.
However, it is a great topic for discussion. Do you really
feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas? I mean there
was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of
them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for
Christ to die for usand save us from sin.
Just courious on that part.
[/quote]
My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from
judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new
creation. Everyone else will be judged.
.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats.
And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign,
AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven
and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.
[/quote]
Billy.. who is the WE that have been passed over....Your sins
will be accounted for and judged unless you accept Jesus Christ
as you Lord and Savior.
The White Throne Judgment is the last judgment. The Sheep and
Goats are those people in those nations that befriended Israel
or NOT! It takes place prior to the Millennium. Those Sheep will
the the gentile nations that will live through the millennium.
The goats will have been killed and thrown into Hell...to await
another 1,000 years for judgment.
Your having a problem getting things in order where before you
had no problems in this area. Are you OK!
Blade
[/quote]
Hi Blade, I'm OK, a cooler cat than yesterday thankfully the
temperature has dropped.
I've been saved for more than 40 years Blade. I will be judged
as to works but my eternal home is heaven.
Your order of events is skew whiff, the GWT judgement is the
final judgement after every single person to have ever lived
will be raised. The sheep are awarded an inheritance, the goats
eternal punishment.
... cannot possibly happen before the Mill ... no way possible.
#Post#: 16231--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest8 Date: August 14, 2020, 9:07 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg16230#msg16230
date=1597397530]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg16152#msg16152
date=1597326513]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg16133#msg16133
date=1597314841]
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=879.msg16125#msg16125 date=1597292615]
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on
who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.
Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry
about them and give guidance when asked. If they are pasted,
nothing I can do to change there status.
However, it is a great topic for discussion. Do you really
feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas? I mean there
was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of
them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for
Christ to die for usand save us from sin.
Just courious on that part.
[/quote]
My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from
judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new
creation. Everyone else will be judged.
.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats.
And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign,
AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven
and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.
[/quote]
Billy.. who is the WE that have been passed over....Your sins
will be accounted for and judged unless you accept Jesus Christ
as you Lord and Savior.
The White Throne Judgment is the last judgment. The Sheep and
Goats are those people in those nations that befriended Israel
or NOT! It takes place prior to the Millennium. Those Sheep will
the the gentile nations that will live through the millennium.
The goats will have been killed and thrown into Hell...to await
another 1,000 years for judgment.
Your having a problem getting things in order where before you
had no problems in this area. Are you OK!
Blade
[/quote]
Hi Blade, I'm OK, a cooler cat than yesterday thankfully the
temperature has dropped.
I've been saved for more than 40 years Blade. I will be judged
as to works but my eternal home is heaven.
Your order of events is skew whiff, the GWT judgement is the
final judgement after every single person to have ever lived
will be raised. The sheep are awarded an inheritance, the goats
eternal punishment.
... cannot possibly happen before the Mill ... no way possible.
[/quote]
don't know where you are getting your Eschatology but your
timelines are all wrong and this puts your salvation in
jeopardy.
Blade
#Post#: 16276--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: August 15, 2020, 3:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg16231#msg16231
date=1597414026]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg16230#msg16230
date=1597397530]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg16152#msg16152
date=1597326513]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg16133#msg16133
date=1597314841]
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=879.msg16125#msg16125 date=1597292615]
Matbe I am missing something, but I am really not concerned on
who in the Bible or history that is saved and God will chose.
Beyond me and my family and friends like I have here, I worry
about them and give guidance when asked. If they are pasted,
nothing I can do to change there status.
However, it is a great topic for discussion. Do you really
feel Judas is beyond saving, how about Caiaphas? I mean there
was no Christian religion at the time, so not sure how both of
them can be condemed when they both had to play there parts for
Christ to die for usand save us from sin.
Just courious on that part.
[/quote]
My understanding has always been that WE are passed over from
judgement into life, we are saved, already part of the new
creation. Everyone else will be judged.
.... but in the last judgement we see sheeps as well as goats.
And this judgement takes place AFTER the 1,000 years reign,
AFTER the rapture. We will have reigned with Christ in heaven
and the Jews will have reigned with Him on earth.
[/quote]
Billy.. who is the WE that have been passed over....Your sins
will be accounted for and judged unless you accept Jesus Christ
as you Lord and Savior.
The White Throne Judgment is the last judgment. The Sheep and
Goats are those people in those nations that befriended Israel
or NOT! It takes place prior to the Millennium. Those Sheep will
the the gentile nations that will live through the millennium.
The goats will have been killed and thrown into Hell...to await
another 1,000 years for judgment.
Your having a problem getting things in order where before you
had no problems in this area. Are you OK!
Blade
[/quote]
Hi Blade, I'm OK, a cooler cat than yesterday thankfully the
temperature has dropped.
I've been saved for more than 40 years Blade. I will be judged
as to works but my eternal home is heaven.
Your order of events is skew whiff, the GWT judgement is the
final judgement after every single person to have ever lived
will be raised. The sheep are awarded an inheritance, the goats
eternal punishment.
... cannot possibly happen before the Mill ... no way possible.
[/quote]
don't know where you are getting your Eschatology but your
timelines are all wrong and this puts your salvation in
jeopardy.
Blade
[/quote]
You will read in Revelations 21 that the GWT judgement which is
the same as the sheeps and goats follow the resurrection of the
quick and dead and is the last judgement.
Somebody's view on eschatological matters does not affect their
salvation. What a strange thing for you to believe.
It DOES have a great bearing upon the gospel message we preach.
#Post#: 16280--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest116 Date: August 15, 2020, 11:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Before I comment and make a statement that causes unnecessary
discussions, are you using eschatological as it apply's strictly
to an individual or as originally used in theology as it relates
to mankind and end times?
For me it makes a difference, but then I am just a strange
person on theology I have been told.
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