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#Post#: 11650--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: April 7, 2020, 6:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg11598#msg11598
date=1586124578]
The great end-time persecution stops when Jesus returns for the
great persecutor will be slain and the devil locked up.
This is Paul's description of the Rapture.
"the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and
remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in
the clouds"
He doesn't say a thing about any left behind nor does any other
scripture.
[/quote]
If you had been able to gather all the Jews in Germany together
in 1930 and you had warned them of all that was about to befall
them within the space of a very few years time they would not
have believed you.
The church similarly is sleepwalking.
When the Great Persecution starts it will start suddenly,
suddenly the most hated thing in the world to be will be to be a
bible believing christian. The devil has been creeping up on the
church for years, laying his trap, the trap will spring
suddenly.
I believe a false prophet is to arise in Israel, doing great
[pretended] signs and wonders and proclaiming the soon arrival
of Messiah. The whole world will be amazed and will believe him.
This will be the cause of the hatred poured upon the true
church. The WHOLE church, the most prominent denominations will
be the first to bear the brunt.
#Post#: 11651--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest8 Date: April 7, 2020, 6:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg11650#msg11650
date=1586301275]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg11598#msg11598
date=1586124578]
The great end-time persecution stops when Jesus returns for the
great persecutor will be slain and the devil locked up.
This is Paul's description of the Rapture.
"the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and
remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in
the clouds"
He doesn't say a thing about any left behind nor does any other
scripture.
[/quote]
If you had been able to gather all the Jews in Germany together
in 1930 and you had warned them of all that was about to befall
them within the space of a very few years time they would not
have believed you.
The church similarly is sleepwalking.
When the Great Persecution starts it will start suddenly,
suddenly the most hated thing in the world to be will be to be a
bible believing christian. The devil has been creeping up on the
church for years, laying his trap, the trap will spring
suddenly.
I believe a false prophet is to arise in Israel, doing great
[pretended] signs and wonders and proclaiming the soon arrival
of Messiah. The whole world will be amazed and will believe him.
This will be the cause of the hatred poured upon the true
church. The WHOLE church, the most prominent denominations will
be the first to bear the brunt.
[/quote]
wow!
#Post#: 12512--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: May 1, 2020, 4:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg11619#msg11619
date=1586218347]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg11598#msg11598
date=1586124578]
The great end-time persecution stops when Jesus returns for the
great persecutor will be slain and the devil locked up.
This is Paul's description of the Rapture.
"the dead in Christ will rise first then we who are alive and
remain will be caught up together with them to meet the Lord in
the clouds"
He doesn't say a thing about any left behind nor does any other
scripture.
[/quote]
Ah, you are using the Post Trib Rapture....It can be taken apart
piece by piece, that is if by chance you read Rev. Literally.
Blade
Read the gospels literally
Jesus said "after [that is post] the tribulation of those days
.... they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds with
great power and glory and He will send forth His angels to
gather the elect from the four corners of heaven ..."
[/quote]
#Post#: 12558--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest8 Date: May 2, 2020, 9:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Billy You sound more like a Catholic everyday.
Jesus did say that in Mat 24:30.(KJV).."Immediately after the
tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the
moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from
heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: v30..And
then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then
shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the
Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great
glory.[ Notice that everyone can see him at His second coming!!!
But Jesus also said:
1 Thes 4:13-18..(KJV).."But I would not have you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not,
even as others which have no hope. v14..For if we believe that
Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in
Jesus will God bring with him. v15..For this we say unto you by
the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto
the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
v16..For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of
God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: v17..Then we which
are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in
the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be
with the Lord. v18..Wherefore comfort one another with these
words".
Here we meet him in the Clouds...He does not come to earth and
he does not tell us that the whole earth sees him.
Jesus also tells us that we should take comfort in these words.
Yet, it would be hard to take comfort if we are told that we
will have to get beat up, possibly tortured and beheaded, etc.
before we can go out to a bride's elect dinner. (Rev 19:7-9)
Rev 19:7-9.." Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to
him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath
made herself ready. v8..And to her was granted that she should
be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is
the righteousness of saints. v9..And he saith unto me, Write,
Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of
the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of
God."
Billy "the Church" (His church, His body, His Bride Elect) will
not go through Daniel's 70th week.
In Rev 3:7, Jesus is speaking to the Church at Philadelphia and
he tells them..
Rev 3:10..(KJV).."Because thou hast kept the word of my
patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,
which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon
the earth."
For in Mat 24:24..(KJV).."For there shall arise false Christs,
and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very
elect."
If it were possible::::::The only way it would not be possible
for the false Christs to deceive the "VERY ELECT" is for the
"VERY ELECT" not to be there.
There are many other verses that say the same thing.....
Have a good evening Billy
Blade
#Post#: 12568--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest73 Date: May 3, 2020, 5:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.
#Post#: 12569--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: May 3, 2020, 5:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg12558#msg12558
date=1588472270]
Billy You sound more like a Catholic everyday.
Jesus did say that in Mat 24:30.(KJV).."Immediately after the
tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the
moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from
heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: v30..And
then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then
shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the
Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great
glory.[ Notice that everyone can see him at His second coming!!!
But Jesus also said:
1 Thes 4:13-18..(KJV).."But I would not have you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not,
even as others which have no hope. v14..For if we believe that
Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in
Jesus will God bring with him. v15..For this we say unto you by
the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto
the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
v16..For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a
shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of
God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: v17..Then we which
are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in
the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be
with the Lord. v18..Wherefore comfort one another with these
words".
[i]Here we meet him in the Clouds...He does not come to earth
and he does not tell us that the whole earth sees him.
Jesus also tells us that we should take comfort in these words.
Yet, it would be hard to take comfort if we are told that we
will have to get beat up, possibly tortured and beheaded, etc.
before we can go out to a bride's elect dinner. (Rev 19:7-9)
Rev 19:7-9.." Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to
him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath
made herself ready. v8..And to her was granted that she should
be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is
the righteousness of saints. v9..And he saith unto me, Write,
Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of
the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of
God."
Billy "the Church" (His church, His body, His Bride Elect) will
not go through Daniel's 70th week.
In Rev 3:7, Jesus is speaking to the Church at Philadelphia and
he tells them..
Rev 3:10..(KJV).."Because thou hast kept the word of my
patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,
which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon
the earth."
For in Mat 24:24..(KJV).."For there shall arise false Christs,
and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders;
insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very
elect."
If it were possible::::::The only way it would not be possible
for the false Christs to deceive the "VERY ELECT" is for the
"VERY ELECT" not to be there.
There are many other verses that say the same thing.....
Have a good evening Billy
Blade
[/quote]
There is only one coming in the clouds with great power and
glory for the gathering of the elect by the holy angels. The one
spoken of in Matt.24 is certainly the same as the one spoken of
in 2.Thess.2. Paul does not say every eye shall see Him but
Jesus does and so does John. So every eye SHALL see Him, the
secret Rap is a myth.
And Jesus said it will be "AFTER the tribulation of those days"
that is POST tribulation.
"The dead shall rise first ..." THIS is what Paul said we should
take comfort in, the Thessies had worried that folk who had
fallen asleep in Christ would miss the boat.
You cannot take Christ's message to the church of Philidelphia
and apply it to the end-time church, Jesus said that many would
be deceived by false prophets and false Christs, He said many
will fall away, brethren will betray each other. The hearts of
many will grow cold.
... but the elect will not be decieved.
Many saints have already been beat up and tortured and beheaded,
look into what is happening to the Chinese church. The
Reformation in Britain was sealed by the blood of martyrs,
burned at the stake rather than adore the communion bread. "Take
heart they cried to each other, we shall light a candle in
England today which will never be extinguished..." One woman
went to the stake dressed in her wedding dress for she said
"Today I will meet my Bridegroom"
#Post#: 12570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: May 3, 2020, 5:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Jesus Truth link=topic=879.msg12568#msg12568
date=1588500834]
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.
[/quote]
That's ok.
Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are
still friends.
#Post#: 12575--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest8 Date: May 3, 2020, 7:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg12570#msg12570
date=1588502490]
[quote author=Jesus Truth link=topic=879.msg12568#msg12568
date=1588500834]
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.
[/quote]
That's ok.
Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are
still friends.
[/quote]
Of Course we are, but I am going to keep trying to get you to
see the pretrib theology....
Blade
#Post#: 12598--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: Billy Evmur Date: May 4, 2020, 4:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg12575#msg12575
date=1588550641]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg12570#msg12570
date=1588502490]
[quote author=Jesus Truth link=topic=879.msg12568#msg12568
date=1588500834]
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.
[/quote]
That's ok.
Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are
still friends.
[/quote]
Of Course we are, but I am going to keep trying to get you to
see the pretrib theology....
Blade
[/quote]
It is a modern doctrine, Jesus said "after the tribulation of
those days ... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the
clouds" after means post.
Darby's interpretation was thrown out by British theologians so
he took it to America. It is a lie.
#Post#: 12628--------------------------------------------------
Re: Is the church ready for the great tribulation?
By: guest8 Date: May 4, 2020, 9:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg12598#msg12598
date=1588583476]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=879.msg12575#msg12575
date=1588550641]
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=879.msg12570#msg12570
date=1588502490]
[quote author=Jesus Truth link=topic=879.msg12568#msg12568
date=1588500834]
I have to agree with Blade, Billy Boy.
[/quote]
That's ok.
Blade and I have a history of disagreement but I hope we are
still friends.
[/quote]
Of Course we are, but I am going to keep trying to get you to
see the pretrib theology....
Blade
[/quote]
It is a modern doctrine, Jesus said "after the tribulation of
those days ... they shall see the Son of Man coming in the
clouds" after means post.
Darby's interpretation was thrown out by British theologians so
he took it to America. It is a lie.
[/quote]
Billy.....Mat 24:29 starts out with your words.."Immediately
after the tribulation of those days" Yet, you are forgetting the
context of the previous verses that Jesus is speaking of...
Starting in Mat 24:15, Jesus is telling us about the AoD that
will take place and He warns people to flea Judiah immediately.
The in Mat 24:21, His words should jar the teeth of all
humanity....(KJV).."For then shall be great tribulation, such as
was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor
ever shall be."
This "Great Tribulation" is the same as 'Jacob's Trouble'
spoken by Jeremiah 30:7.
And then Jesus speaks of something unrealistic in Mat
24:22.."And except those days should be shortened, there should
no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be
shortened." What would cause an earthly catastrophe that would
kill all life on earth....Could this be Nuclear War?
It could not have been thought of in the 1860. a musket would
/could not kill the whole world.
I regress,the context of your verses Mat 24:29-30..specifically
Verse 29 starts out with "Immediately after the tribulation of
those days" Yes, immediately after the "Great Tribulation" where
2/3 of the Jewish Nation will die and 1/3 of them will become
the Remnant of all Israel.
Yes, this is the second coming of Christ as prophecy has
foretold.
YET, Jesus is speaking to the Jews of the time...His Church had
not even started at this time.... He was telling the Jews what
was going to happen to them specifially.....Later in Acts 2, the
Church is born and those who believe in His Gospel will be
spared the horrors of Daniel's 70th containing "the Great
Tribulation/ Jacob's trouble.
Billy, If you are in Christ totally, then you will not have to
live through this time period. You and I will watch it from the
Messinine of Heaven.
Darby did not interpret "that Lie" as you call it.....for it was
taught prior to 1800's.
I found this in the Koinonia house archives: Grant Jeffrey has
found an ancient citation from a sermon ascribed to Ephraem of
Nisibis (306-373 a.d.), which clearly teaches that believers
will be raptured and taken to Heaven before The Tribulation
(The citation was found in a footnote in Paul J. Alexander's The
Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition, University of California Press,
Berkeley, CA, 1985, p. 210. Dr. Paul Alexander is probably the
most authoritative scholar on the writings of the early
Byzantine Church. )
Ephraem of Nisibis was the most important and prolific of the
Syrian church fathers and a witness to early Christianity on the
fringes of the Roman Empire in the late fourth century.
This sermon is deemed to be one of the most interesting
apocalyptic texts of the early Middle Ages. The translation of
the sermon includes the following segment: (The English
translation of the Latin text in C.P. Caspari's Briefe,
Abhandlungen und Predigten aus den zwei letzten Jahrhunderten
des kirchlichen Altertums und dem Anfang des Mittelater
(Christiania, 1890, pp. 208-20) was provided by Cameron Rhoades,
instructor of Latin at Tyndale Theological Seminary, Ft. Worth,
TX. )
"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to
the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest
they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of
our sins."
Billy, I ask you,...there are all kinds of proof that the
Rapture was preached back to Paul's days....FoDO you really
doubt the WORD of JESUS that much?
It is worth saying again.:Ephraem of Nisibis did NOT doubt.
Again a part of His sermon in the fourth century (300s)..,
"For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the
tribulation that is to come, and[b] are taken to the Lord lest
they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of
our sins[/b]"
Blade
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