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#Post#: 10329--------------------------------------------------
God In The Holocaust
By: Olde Tymer Date: February 18, 2020, 7:42 am
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.[font=arial]
One has to ask, in point of fact there has been more than one
rabbi ponder: How is it that so many of Moses' people were
caught up in the Holocaust? Where was God during all that? Why
didn't He step in and do something to protect His chosen people?
To find an answer to that question one need look no further than
Ex 34:6-7, Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut 28:1-69. In
other words: the Jews, as a people, brought it on themselves in
accordance with the covenant that their ancestors agreed upon
with God as per Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
A covenant is essentially a contract. Well; if God were to fail
to fulfill His end of the agreement; then He would be in breach
of contract; which is not only unethical, but also uncivil. Long
story short: the covenant requires Him to lower the boom on His
people for failure to honor their end of the agreement; and you
can see the extent of the damage for yourself in the scripture
references in the above paragraph.
There are numerous blessings that God is contractually obligated
to fulfill too; so the covenant isn't all one-sided; viz:
compliance with the covenant accrues blessings; while breaching
the covenant accrues curses. Anybody who has read the Old
Testament can attest that God came down on His own people quite
often for breaching the covenant; and just as often quite
cruelly. The curses that Lev 26:3-38, Deut 27:15-26, and Deut
28:1-69 list are very disturbing; and when examining them, one
cannot help but realize they're reading a synopsis of the Jews'
history.
The status of God's chosen people has its advantages; but also
its disadvantages; viz: the status of God's chosen people is not
something to be proud of; but rather, something to be afraid of
because the covenant's God is not the kind of judge influenced
by favoritism. No; if anything, Moses' people run the risk of
being judged even more severely than Gentiles because of their
privileged position and the insider's knowledge they were given
of His likes and dislikes.
● Amos 3:1-2 . . Hear this word that Yhvh has spoken
against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family
which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying: You only have
I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will
punish you for all your iniquities. (cf. Luke 12:42-48)
_[/font]
#Post#: 10343--------------------------------------------------
Re: God In The Holocaust
By: Olde Tymer Date: February 19, 2020, 7:22 am
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.[font=arial]
FAQ: Is the world supposed to believe it was the Jews' own fault
that they were rounded up like cattle, stripped of their
dignity, their property, their wealth, and their possessions,
enslaved, starved, deprived of basic human necessities,
tortured, subjected to Frankenstein medical experiments, worked
to death, and gassed, shot, and incinerated by the millions?
A: If the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God is
binding; then yes; the Jews, as a people, are definitely at
fault for what happened to them. There's really no mystery to
this: it's all laid out in black and white at Lev 26:14-38, Deut
27:15-26, and Deut 28:15-69.
FAQ: God caused an event whose collateral damage led to the
deaths of all those other people too besides the Jews?
A: We're not saying God engineered the Holocaust. All we're
saying is: He stood by and did nothing to prevent a number of
His own people being taken in it. In other words: the essential
thing that Moses' people brought upon themselves was the loss of
God's providence. I think God took advantage of Hitler's agenda
as an opportunity; viz: a convenient means of throwing His
people to the wolves like He did in the Old Testament with
Nebuchadnezzar.
The covenant Moses' people agreed upon with God obligates Him to
protect them from misfortune when they're compliant with it; but
the same time the covenant also obligates God to lower the boom
on them when they're not compliant with it. If there is only one
good thing to come out of the Holocaust is that it proves to the
world that God is reliable, viz: He can be trusted to honor His
commitments.
_[/font]
#Post#: 10364--------------------------------------------------
Re: God In The Holocaust
By: Olde Tymer Date: February 20, 2020, 8:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
FAQ: Supposing there is no one to blame for the loss of Jewish
life in the Holocaust but the Jews themselves? If so; then how
many of them would've had to breach the covenant to put them all
in so much danger?
A: It's surprising how few Jews it takes to ruin it for all the
rest. For example the incident at Ai in the 7th chapter of
Joshua. The insubordination of one insignificant Jewish man--
just one --caused God to stop assisting Joshua's army in battle.
As a result, 36 men were needlessly killed in action; and
ultimately capital punishment was inflicted upon not only the
insubordinate man himself, but also his sons and his daughters.
God's accusation? "Israel has sinned" (Josh 7:11)
See that? God didn't accuse the perpetrator; no; He accused
Israel. In other words: in that particular incident; the sin of
just one Jew under Joshua's command became the sin of all the
Jews under his command; viz: the whole kit and caboodle-- lock,
stock, and barrel; and Israel could proceed no further with its
conquest of Canaan until the guilty man was executed.
And then there's this incident:
● 2Sam 21:1 . . Now there was a famine in the days of
David for three years, year after year; and David sought the
presence of the Lord. And the Lord said: It is for Saul and his
bloody house, because he put the Gibeonites to death.
Joshua agreed to a non-aggression pact with the Gibeonites
during the conquest of Canaan (Josh 9:3-16). Saul, when king,
dishonored the pact. He apparently got away with it; but not his
countrymen, no; God slammed them for what Saul did; and that
posthumously.
In another Old Testament incident; God lowered the boom on
70,000 Jews. What did they do to deserve it? Absolutely nothing.
The insubordination of just one Jewish man caused their deaths.
King David breached the covenant that Moses' people agreed upon
with God by taking an unwarranted census. As a result; those
70,000 Jews went to their deaths through no fault of their own;
it was all on David.
I can't imagine what just one Jew would have to do in order to
bring about the deaths of six million of his fellows; but if a
whole bunch of them throughout the world were breaching the
covenant all at the same time, I guess that could become a sort
of force-multiplier.
That's pretty scary when you think about it because more than
fifty percent of the Jews living in the State of Israel right
now today are [I]hiloni[/I] (secular). In my estimation, that's
easily enough insubordinate Jews all in one place for God to
justify bringing down the whole country; and then if you combine
those with the number of insubordinate Jews around the rest of
the world, including the USA; now you can appreciate just how
insecure Israel's future really is.
Another possibility is that the generation caught by the
Holocaust, was caught not only due to their own breaches of the
covenant, but also due to breaches committed by generations
preceding them.
● Ex 34:6-7 . . Then Yhvh passed by in front of Moses and
proclaimed: Yhvh, Yhvh God, compassionate and gracious, slow to
anger, and abounding in loving-kindness and truth; who keeps
loving-kindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity,
transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty
unpunished: visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and
on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations.
That statement is included in the covenant, so God is morally
obligated to honor it lest He be found in breach of contract.
But it just goes to show that sins have a way of snow-balling
from one generation to the next till the snowball is so big that
it triggers an act of God; which is disturbing because it tells
me that it's not impossible that the Jews of today are
endangering the Jews of tomorrow by their current breaches of
the covenant-- breaches that according to Ex 34:6-7, God will by
no means sweep under the rug.
Wouldn't it be awful if the next Holocaust took place right
inside the Jews' own homeland? I sincerely believe that Saddam
Hussein's SCUDS were a wake-up call. Next time; incoming
missiles just may contain nuclear warheads instead of high
explosives; and Jacob's people will be poisoned to death with
radiation instead of pesticide.
The upside to the Holocaust is its value as historical evidence
for the existence of the covenant's God. It is also valuable as
historical evidence that the covenant was still in force for
Moses' people as recent as the middle of the last century. True;
the covenant is obsolete where Christians are concerned; but
that old dog can still bark.
I believe it's okay to pity the Jews as per Lam 1:12; but I do
not believe it is appropriate to let them get away with playing
the victim all the time. That's just a red herring diverting
attention away from their own chronic failure to honor the
covenant in a manner consistent with their God's requirements.
_[/font]
#Post#: 10379--------------------------------------------------
Re: God In The Holocaust
By: guest58 Date: February 20, 2020, 12:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=775.msg10343#msg10343
date=1582118576]FAQ: God caused an event whose collateral damage
led to the deaths of all those other people too besides the
Jews?
A[font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]: We're not saying
God engineered the Holocaust.[/font]
[/quote]
Why not?
We know GOD punishes HIS own people for breaking the covenant
and we know HE punishes the nations most severely:
Isaiah 34:1 Come near, O nations, to hear! Listen, O people!
Let the earth and all that is in it listen, the world and all
that comes from it. 2 For the Lord’s anger is against all the
nations. And His anger is against all their armies. He has
destroyed all of them. He has given them over to be killed. 3
Their dead will be thrown out. Their dead bodies will give off a
bad smell. The mountains will flow with their blood. ...etc,
etc.
Where's the problem?
#Post#: 10390--------------------------------------------------
Re: God In The Holocaust
By: Olde Tymer Date: February 21, 2020, 7:59 am
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.[font=arial]
FAQ: If true that the Jews, as a people, brought the Holocaust
upon themselves in accordance with the language of the covenant
that their ancestors agreed upon with God; then why don't they
own up to it instead of always going about playing the victim
and acting so indignant?
A: Well; sad to say: the Jewish people, on the whole, are famous
for their obtuse attitudes; not only in the Bible; but in real
life too. It's so common and so chronic that we're forced to
conclude that their attitudes are actually quite systemic.
Finding a Jew who will admit they are wrong— wrong about
anything —is like searching for the Loch Ness monster and the
lost city of Atlantis.
The average John Q and Jane Doe Jew is so defensive, so
reactive, so stiff-necked, so adamant, so self-righteous, so
arrogant, and so infected with a chosen-people superiority
complex; that they simply cannot tolerate criticism; not even
criticism coming straight from the mouth of the very God with
whom they boast an elite association; for example:
● Zech 7:11-12 . . But they refused to listen; and they
turned a rebellious shoulder; and they made their ears heavy,
not to hear. And they made their heart [as hard] as a shamir,
[in order] not to listen to the Torah and to the words that the
Lord of Hosts sent, through His spirit by the earlier prophets.
And there was great anger from the Lord of Hosts.
● Dan 9:5-6 . .We have sinned and have dealt iniquitously;
we have dealt wickedly and have rebelled, turning away from Your
commandments and from Your ordinances.
● Dan 9:10-11 . .And we have not hearkened to the voice of
the Lord our God, to follow His teachings, which He placed
before us by the hand of His servants, the prophets. And all
Israel have transgressed Your teaching, turning away, not
heeding Your voice, and the curse and the oath, which are
written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, have befallen
us, for we have sinned against Him.
Jews have been playing the victim card for decades, and getting
away with it too; so it really riles them whenever somebody
dares to suggest that the misfortunes that have overtaken them
down through the years, as well as the problems that plague them
now, are due to exactly what Daniel and Zechariah said. For
example:
The covenant that Moses' people agreed upon with God requires
Him to preserve peace in the land of Israel when His people are
compliant. Well; the land has been in a state of war since the
day of its inception in 1948 and nobody is safe over there; and
were Israel not allied with the USA and Britain, I fear the Arab
world would crush it practically overnight.
The covenant also obligates God to restore Israel's borders when
they are compliant. Well; the State of Israel doesn't even have
control over the Temple Mount let alone its covenanted borders.
The covenant also obligates God to provide the State of Israel
with abundant rain when the people are compliant. Well; if not
for ground water, Israel wouldn't have much of an agriculture.
Alas, the historical Jordan River has been reduced to a toxic
trickle of its former self because so much water is pumped out
of it for irrigation.
_[/font]
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