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DIR Return to: Christian Theology
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#Post#: 9285--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 22, 2019, 8:40 am
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.[font=arial]
● Luke 2:8. . . And in the same region there were some
shepherds staying out in the fields, and keeping watch over
their flock by night.
To hear Jacob tell it; a shepherd's life would not be my career
of choice. (Gen 31:38-40)
● Luke 2:9-11 . . And an angel of the Lord suddenly stood
before them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them; and
they were terribly frightened.
. . . And the angel said to them: Do not be afraid; for behold,
I bring you good news of a great joy which shall be for all the
people; for today in the city of David there has been born for
you a savior;
The Greek word for "savior" is soter (so-tare') which basically
means a rescuer. Common examples of this would be lifeguards,
firemen, cops, emergency medical teams, Coast Guard units, snow
patrols, and mountain rescue teams. Rescuers typically save
people who are facing imminent death and/or grave peril and
utterly helpless to do anything about it.
Saviors in the Old Testament were what we might call knights in
shining armor, i.e. they were ordinary men and women called upon
by God to liberate their people from things like slavery and
oppression. (Neh 9:27)
This one born in Bethlehem wasn't an ordinary savior. He was/is
a divine being. (John 1:1-14)
● Luke 2:11 . . which is Christ the Lord.
The Greek word for "Christ" basically refers to anointing; which
is how Jewish kings were installed back in the Old Testament;
for example David (1Sam 16:1-13). So then, calling someone
"Christ" is all the same as calling them a king; regardless of
their ethnic identity. For example: the Old Testament equivalent
of Christ is mashiyach (maw-shee'-akh) which the Bible applies
to a Persian king named Cyrus. (Isa 45:1)
In that respect, there have been many Christs, but none like
this one because he will not only rule his people, and not only
rescue his people from their normal woes, but also the one woe
that all men fear most.
● Matt 1:18-21 . .This is how the birth of Jesus Christ
came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph,
but before they came together, she was found to be with child
through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was a
righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace,
he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
. . . But after he had considered this, an angel of The Lord
appeared to him in a dream and said: Joseph son of David, do not
be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is
conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to
a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will
save his people from their sins.
Jesus is the Greek equivalent of the Hebrew name Joshua; which
in Hebrew means: Jehovah-saved, i.e. saved by Jehovah. Now when
Jehovah saves people from their sins, then they need not ever
again fear the sum of all fears. Surely no one would dispute
that kind of news as justifiable cause for the "great joy"
announced by the angel to the shepherds.
_[/font]
#Post#: 9297--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 23, 2019, 1:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● Matt 2:1 . . Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of
Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise
men from the east to Jerusalem.
The Greek word for these particular wise men is from magos
(mag'-os) from which we get the English word magician. But back
then, the word indicated a variety of disciplines, e.g.
philosophy, religion, science, politics, and medicine, etc. In
other words; these men were intelligent and they were educated.
Now before we assume that these guys were all ethnic Persians we
need to be aware that the Jews and their converts were spread
out all over the world at this time; for example on the day of
Pentecost:
"Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every
nation under heaven. A crowd came together in bewilderment,
because each one heard [the disciples] speaking in his own
language. Utterly amazed, they asked: Are not all these men who
are speaking Galileans?
. . .Then how is it that each of us hears them in his own native
language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of
Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and
Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors
from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and
Arabs-- we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own
tongues!" (Acts 2:5-11)
I think it's pretty safe to assume that ethnic Persians would
not be interested in the Jews' religion so I posit that the wise
guys were either Jewish men or converts; and thus knowledgeable
of the Old Testament prophecies that speak of a very important
successor to David's throne.
● Matt 2:2b . . for we have seen his star in the east, and
are come to worship him.
So; how did the travelers know to follow that star? Well; first
off we have to realize that their star wasn't a celestial object
because it was low enough in the sky to direct people to the
exact house were baby Jesus was lodged (Matt 2:9). In other
words: their star was an apparition.
During the holidays, planetariums here and there put on shows
that theorize the wise men's star. They typically neglect to
take into account that stars, in their normal motions, never
move to the north or to the south; they always move from the
east to the west. Well, Bethlehem is south of Jerusalem and
Nazareth is north.
Plus, they seem to always forget that the wise men's star stood
right over the place where little Jesus was lodged. Well; stars
in their motions never take a time-out to hover; and even if one
were to do so, they are so high in the sky that it's nigh unto
impossible without special instruments to tell the exact spot
where any one star is directly over something.
But how did they know their star was related to the newborn
king? Well; according to Matt 2:12, they were in contact with
God. In other words: the men weren't acting on their own
initiative: they were on a mission; directed and supervised by
divine oversight.
_[/font]
#Post#: 9298--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 23, 2019, 1:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● Matt 2:3-4 . . And when Herod the king heard it, he was
troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And gathering together all
the chief priests and scribes of the people, he began to inquire
of them where the Christ was to be born.
The Greek word for "Christ" basically refers to anointing; which
is how Jewish kings were installed back in the Old Testament;
for example David (1Sam 16:1-13). So then, calling someone "the
Christ" is all the same as calling them a king; regardless of
their ethnic identity. For example: the Old Testament equivalent
of Christ is mashiyach (maw-shee'-akh) which the Bible applies
to a Persian king named Cyrus. (Isa 45:1)
Right about here I got a bit curious. Why would Herod think that
the king the wise men sought was predicted in the Bible? It
seems to me that in order for Herod to be thinking that way,
he'd have to be aware of Daniel's famous seventy-week prophecy.
(Dan 9:24-27)
Well, after a bit of checking, I discovered that Herod took an
interest in the Jews' religion and was somewhat learned in it.
In point of fact, Herod at this time was upgrading the Temple.
The chief priests and scribes, being Old Testament experts, were
for sure aware of Daniel's prophecy and I'll just bet that they
and their forbearers had been keeping track of Daniel's timeline
all along and thus probably not all that surprised when rumors
of a Christ started cropping up in their day.
Well; anyway, Herod asked the wrong question. According to Matt
2:2, baby Jesus was already born; in fact, born even before the
wise men left their country. So then, knowing where Israel's new
king was to be born was a long shot that he'd still be there.
The question Herod should have asked is: Where might the boy be
now?
After an audience with Herod, the wise men departed; still
guided by their star.
● Matt 2:9 . . After they had heard the king, they went on
their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of
them.
And then it stood right over the very address where Jesus was
lodged.
● Matt 2:9 . . It stopped over the place where the child
was.
The place was a house rather than a stable.
● Matt 2:11a . . On coming to the house
It's difficult to calculate the boy's age when the wise men
arrived; however one thing we know for sure it was their
understanding that the king they sought was already born even
before they left home to seek him. We know that because their
inquiry contains some past tense grammar in Matt 2:2.
There's no telling how long after Jesus' birth that the men
departed their country to search for him. Plus, there were no
motorized conveyances back then; and people normally didn't
travel at night because their artificial lighting was pretty
much limited to torches, candles, and oil-fired lanterns.
_[/font]
#Post#: 9332--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 24, 2019, 9:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● Matt 2:11b . . They saw the child with his mother
When Jesus was lodged in the stable, the Greek word for his age
is given as brephos (bref'-os): an infant. In the house, the
word for his age is given as paidion (pahee-dee'-on) which
refers to any underage kid from infancy to adolescence but
usually always refers to young children rather than infants.
I won't hazard a guess as to Jesus' age by the time the men
arrived to see him, but I'm thinking he was at the very least no
longer in a bassinet.
● Matt 2:11c . . and fell down, and worshipped him:
The Greek word for "worship" is proskuneo (pros-koo-neh'-o).
It's kind of a funny word because it basically pictures a dog
licking its master's hand; i.e. homage, reverence, and/or
adoration; viz: definitely subordination.
Now if these guys knew their stuff-- I think we can safely
assume so --then they didn't come all the way from the east
seeking another run-of-the-mill king of the Davidic dynasty,
rather; a very special potentate that would one day rule not
just the land of Israel; but the entire planet, viz: everybody.
● Dan 7:13-14 . . In my vision at night I looked, and
there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the
clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was
escorted into His presence.
. . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all
peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped him. His
dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and
his kingdom is the one that will never be destroyed.
Well; let the record show that the wise men were the very first
to begin fulfilling that scene; viz: "all peoples, nations and
men of every language worshipped him".
_[/font]
#Post#: 9333--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 24, 2019, 9:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
POST DELETED
Reason: Duplicate Post
_[/font]
#Post#: 9334--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 24, 2019, 9:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● Matt 2:11-12 . .Then they opened their treasures and
presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.
Those were not only appropriate tributes in that day, but also
valuable commodities that Joseph could put to use in financing
his family's pending sojourn in Egypt. (Matt 2:13-14)
It would've been fun if Matthew had told us the weight of the
gold so we could put a dollar figure on it according to today's
precious metals.
● Matt 2:11-12 . . And having been warned in a dream not
to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another
route.
That was a safety measure to prevent Herod from knowing where to
find the lad because rulers in that day were typically
Machiavellian-- they didn't just crush potential threats to
their power; they utterly annihilated it; and as subsequent
events demonstrate, ol' Herod had neither conscience nor concern
for child welfare.
● Matt 2:16a . .Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked
of the wise men, was exceeding wroth
There's really nothing in the story to even remotely suggest
that the wise men made a fool out of Herod. It was all in his
own mind, i.e. his own perception of the events. In other words;
Herod was under the impression that they had mocked him; thus
his reaction was stimulated by a false premise.
● Matt 2:16b . . He sent forth, and slew all the children
that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two
years old and under, according to the time which he had
diligently inquired of the wise men.
The Greek word for "coasts" is a mite ambiguous. It technically
indicates borders, but can also indicate regions and/or environs
and surrounding areas.
That verse is commonly appropriated to calculate Jesus' age
relative to when the wise men visited him and his mother. But
the verse merely indicates the passage of time since Herod
interviewed the men; which is quite useless for calculating
Jesus' age seeing as how he was already born before the men even
left their country-- how long before they left their country,
nobody knows for sure.
● Matt 2:17-18 . .Then what was said through the prophet
Jeremiah was fulfilled: "A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and
great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to
be comforted, because they are no more." (Jer 31:15)
Ramah was roughly six miles north of Jerusalem, while Bethlehem
is roughly the same distance south in the opposite direction.
Ramah was settled by the people of Rachel's biological son
Benjamin, so that any weeping done by the mothers in that area
would be reckoned, by heritage, to be Rachel's weeping.
What this suggests to me is that the slaughter of the innocents
extended beyond the community of Bethlehem. Were we to set a
draftsman's compass to a radius equal to the distance between
Bethlehem and Ramah, and scribe a circle with Bethlehem at the
center, it would yield a pretty good idea of the area covered by
Herod's death squads.
But Herod's efforts were futile. Jesus wasn't even in the
country; Joseph had moved the child and his mother down into
Egypt before all the killing began. (Matt 2:13)
_[/font]
#Post#: 9342--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 25, 2019, 10:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
Happy Holidays everyone! and don't be ashamed to be known as a
Christian. We sure don't want the Lord giving us the same look
that he gave Peter on the night Jesus was arrested.
"The Lord turned and looked straight at Peter. Then Peter
remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: Before the
rooster crows today, you will disown me three times. And he went
outside and wept bitterly."
(Luke 22:61-62)
_[/font]
#Post#: 9353--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: guest8 Date: December 26, 2019, 7:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=704.msg9342#msg9342
date=1577290114]
.[font=arial]
Happy Holidays everyone! and don't be ashamed to be known as a
Christian. We sure don't want the Lord giving us the same look
that he gave Peter on the night Jesus was arrested.
"The Lord turned and looked straight at Peter. Then Peter
remembered the word the Lord had spoken to him: Before the
rooster crows today, you will disown me three times. And he went
outside and wept bitterly."
(Luke 22:61-62)
_[/font]
[/quote]
There is a BIG difference in "disown me" and "Deny ME" which
is what the KJV states.....
Blade
#Post#: 9900--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: Olde Tymer Date: January 25, 2020, 9:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● Matt 2:19-23 . . After Herod died, an angel of the Lord
appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said: Get up, take
the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those
who were trying to take the child's life are dead.
. . . So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to
the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was
reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to
go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the
district of Galilee, and he went and lived in a town called
Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets:
"He will be called a Nazarene."
NOTE: Jesus' hometown Nazareth was predicted by the prophets but
not recorded by the prophets; which alerts us to the fact that
the prophets didn't put everything they knew down in writing.
That was fortunate because sure enough Herod's death squads
would've swept around Nazareth too had he known.
Jesus is identified with Nazareth several times in the New
Testament; probably the best known incident took place on the
day of his crucifixion.
● John 19:19-20 . . Pilate wrote a title, and put it on
the cross. And the writing was:[/font]
[font=Times New Roman]JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE
JEWS.[/font]
[font=arial]This title then read many of the Jews: for the place
where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was
written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
_[/font]
#Post#: 9945--------------------------------------------------
Re: The King In The Manger
By: guest8 Date: January 28, 2020, 5:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=704.msg9900#msg9900
date=1580011067]
.[font=arial]
● Matt 2:19-23 . . After Herod died, an angel of the Lord
appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt and said: Get up, take
the child and his mother and go to the land of Israel, for those
who were trying to take the child's life are dead.
. . . So he got up, took the child and his mother and went to
the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was
reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to
go there. Having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the
district of Galilee, and he went and lived in a town called
Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was said through the prophets:
"He will be called a Nazarene."
NOTE: Jesus' hometown Nazareth was predicted by the prophets but
not recorded by the prophets; which alerts us to the fact that
the prophets didn't put everything they knew down in writing.
That was fortunate because sure enough Herod's death squads
would've swept around Nazareth too had he known.
Jesus is identified with Nazareth several times in the New
Testament; probably the best known incident took place on the
day of his crucifixion.
● John 19:19-20 . . Pilate wrote a title, and put it on
the cross. And the writing was:[/font]
[font=Times New Roman]JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE
JEWS.[/font]
[font=arial]This title then read many of the Jews: for the place
where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was
written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
_[/font]
[/quote]
Yep, God decided what to print and what not to print or say.
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