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#Post#: 9092--------------------------------------------------
Cain According To James
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 7, 2019, 10:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● 1Pet 5:8-9 . . Be discreet, stay alert. Your adversary,
the Devil, prowls about like a roaring lion, seeking someone to
devour; whom resist, steadfast in the faith.
"the faith" isn't only a collection of beliefs, but includes a
collection of practices, since according to James; a person of
faith without practices might as well have no faith at all.
● Jas 2:17 . . Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied
by action, is dead.
The demon world believes in the existence of a supreme being
(Jas 2:19) but the demon world lacks piety; i.e. they are not
devout.
A devout Christian is someone who not only believes; but also
behaves.
● John 14:15 . . If you love me, you will comply with what
I command.
● John 14:21 . .Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he
is the one who loves me.
● John 14:23-24 . . If anyone loves me, he will obey my
teaching . . He who does not love me will not obey my teaching.
● John 15:14 . .You are my friends if you do what I
command you.
Now, assuming for the moment that Cain's offering was correct;
then why didn't God accept it? Well; before God snubbed Cain's
offering, He first snubbed Cain.
● Gen 4:4-5 . .The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his
offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with
favor.
The reason given for Cain's rejection is an elephant in the
middle of the room that quite a few Bible students seem content
to ignore.
● Gen 4:7 . . If you do what is right, will you not be
accepted?
Cain believed in the existence of a supreme being; that much is
pretty obvious. But Cain's piety was flawed, i.e. his personal
conduct didn't meet God's standards of behavior, viz: Cain
wasn't devout.
FAQ: How could Cain possibly know God's standards of behavior
without a written code to inform him?
A: Luke 11:49-51 says that Cain's kid brother Abel was a
prophet.
FAQ: What does Cain's rejection have to do with me? I'm a
Christian.
A: Cain's association with God was thwarted by his conduct. That
principle is a universal axiom; it governs everybody: Christians
included; they are not exempt. When Christians do what's right,
they get along with God just fine; but when they don't do what's
right, they get the cold shoulder just the same as if they were
a demon.
● 1John 1:5-6 . .This is the message which we have heard
from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no
darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and
walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.
_[/font]
#Post#: 9100--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cain According To James
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 8, 2019, 10:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● Heb 11:4 . . By faith Abel offered God a better
sacrifice than Cain did.
I'm going to edit the wording of that just a bit to bring out an
important point.
"By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice"
The missing word "better" is a modifier; which serves to show
that both men's offerings were sacrifices; only the quality of
Abel's sacrifice was superior to the quality of Cain's.
Sacrifices should never be assumed always lethal and/or bloody.
Take for example:
● Rom 12:1 . . I urge you, brothers, in view of God's
mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices
● Heb 13:15-17 . .Through Him then, let us continually
offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of
lips that give thanks to His name. And do not neglect doing good
and sharing; for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
Heb 11:4 also testifies that Abel's offerings were gifts. The
very same Greek word is used at Matt 2:11 to categorize the
treasures that the wise men left with baby Jesus.
Their gifts were not sin offerings; they were tributes: defined
by Webster's as (1) something given or contributed voluntarily
as due or deserved especially a gift or service showing respect,
gratitude, or affection and (2) something (such as material
evidence or a formal attestation) that indicates the worth,
virtue, or effectiveness of the one in question
In other words "gifts" are acts of worship; which is the primary
reason why Jehovah's Witnesses don't celebrate birthdays.
NOTE: It's commonly assumed that Abel's sacrifice was slain; but
there isn't enough evidence to support it. Noah's sacrifices
were obviously slain because they're listed as incinerated on an
altar (Gen 8:20). But Abel's sacrifice is not said to end up the
same way.
The Hebrew word for both men's offerings in Gen 4:4-5 is minchah
(min-khaw') which means to apportion, i.e. bestow; a donation;
euphemistically, tribute; specifically a sacrificial offering
(usually bloodless and voluntary).
When disinformation is repeated often, spread widely, and lent
proper respect; it sometimes becomes axiomatic in people's
thinking. Caveat Lector.
It ain't what you know that gets you into trouble.
It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.
(Mark Twain)
_[/font]
#Post#: 9101--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cain According To James
By: guest8 Date: December 8, 2019, 1:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=696.msg9100#msg9100
date=1575821534]
.[font=arial]
● Heb 11:4 . . By faith Abel offered God a better
sacrifice than Cain did.
I'm going to edit the wording of that just a bit to bring out an
important point.
"By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice"
The missing word "better" is a modifier; which serves to show
that both men's offerings were sacrifices; only the quality of
Abel's sacrifice was superior to the quality of Cain's.
Sacrifices should never be assumed always lethal and/or bloody.
Take for example:
● Rom 12:1 . . I urge you, brothers, in view of God's
mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices
● Heb 13:15-17 . .Through Him then, let us continually
offer up a sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of
lips that give thanks to His name. And do not neglect doing good
and sharing; for with such sacrifices God is pleased.
Heb 11:4 also testifies that Abel's offerings were gifts. The
very same Greek word is used at Matt 2:11 to categorize the
treasures that the wise men left with baby Jesus.
Their gifts were not sin offerings; they were tributes: defined
by Webster's as (1) something given or contributed voluntarily
as due or deserved especially a gift or service showing respect,
gratitude, or affection and (2) something (such as material
evidence or a formal attestation) that indicates the worth,
virtue, or effectiveness of the one in question
In other words "gifts" are acts of worship; which is the primary
reason why Jehovah's Witnesses do not celebrate birthdays.
_[/font]
[/quote]
Is that how one makes scripture say something according to ones
own interpretation(s).....You said: "I'm going to edit the
wording of that just a bit to bring out an important point.
"By faith Abel offered God a sacrifice"
The missing word "better" is a modifier; which serves to show
that both men's offerings were sacrifices; only the quality of
Abel's sacrifice was superior to the quality of Cain's. "
If you read it literally from the KJV st start with you get:
Hebrew 11:4..(KJV).By faith Abel offered unto God a more
excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that
he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he
being dead yet speaketh.
Almost what you said....NO....and you did not have to change a
thing.
Blade
#Post#: 9104--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cain According To James
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 8, 2019, 7:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
I'm confident in my own mind that the Cain and Abel incident is
unrelated to the plan of salvation as per Christ on the cross
rather, it's a lesson about worship.
Take for example Isa 1:11-20. Moses' people were offering all
the covenanted sacrifices, they were praying up a storm, and
observing all the God-given feasts and holy days. He rejected
all of it, even though He himself required it, because the
people's personal conduct was unbecoming.
● Prv 15:8 . .The sacrifice of the wicked is an
abomination to Yhvh.
Perhaps the classic example is the one below.
● Ps 51:16 . .You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would
bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
When David wrote that; he had only just committed the capital
crimes of adultery and premeditated murder. There was just no
way that God was going to accept his sacrifices and offerings on
top of that; and David knew it too.
The principle shows up again in Jesus' teachings.
● Matt 9:13 . . Go and learn what this means: I desire
mercy and not sacrifice.
Some folk honestly believe that Christ's statement, taken from
Hosea 6:6, practically repealed the entire God-given book of
Leviticus. But that's not what either Hosea or Jesus were
saying. They meant that God much prefers that people be civil to
each other rather than religious to their fingertips.
In other words; an ungracious person's lack of things like
sympathy, patience, tolerance, lenience, helpfulness, pity, and
common courtesy causes God to reject their worship just as
thoroughly and bluntly as He rejected Cain's.
The principle didn't go away. It's still the Lord's way of doing
business with people; including Christians.
● 1John 1:5-7 . . God is light, and in Him is no darkness
at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in
darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the
light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with
another.
It's likely a foregone conclusion that God is deeply insulted
when people whose conduct is unbecoming all during the week come
to church on Sunday actually thinking He's glad to see them show
up for some quality time together.
_[/font]
#Post#: 9113--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cain According To James
By: guest8 Date: December 9, 2019, 7:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=696.msg9104#msg9104
date=1575854862]
.[font=arial]
I'm confident in my own mind that the Cain and Abel incident is
unrelated to the plan of salvation as per Christ on the cross
rather, it's a lesson about worship, i.e. church attendance.
Take for example Isa 1:11-20. Moses' people were offering all
the covenanted sacrifices, they were praying up a storm, and
observing all the God-given feasts and holy days. He rejected
all of it, even though He himself required it, because the
people's personal conduct was unbecoming.
● Prv 15:8 . .The sacrifice of the wicked is an
abomination to Yhvh.
Perhaps the classic example is the one below.
● Ps 51:16 . .You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would
bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings.
When David wrote that; he had only just committed the capital
crimes of adultery and premeditated murder. There was just no
way that God was going to accept his sacrifices and offerings on
top of that; and David knew it too.
The principle shows up again in Jesus' teachings.
● Matt 9:13 . . Go and learn what this means: I desire
mercy and not sacrifice.
Some folk honestly believe that Christ's statement, taken from
Hosea 6:6, practically repealed the entire God-given book of
Leviticus. But that's not what either Hosea or Jesus were
saying. They meant that God much prefers that people be civil to
each other rather than religious to their fingertips.
In other words; an ungracious person's lack of things like
sympathy, patience, tolerance, lenience, helpfulness, pity, and
common courtesy causes God to reject their worship just as
thoroughly and bluntly as He rejected Cain's.
The principle didn't go away. It's still the Lord's way of doing
business with people; including Christians.
● 1John 1:5-7 . . God is light, and in Him is no darkness
at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in
darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: but if we walk in the
light, as He is in the light, we have fellowship one with
another.
It's likely a foregone conclusion that God is deeply insulted
when people whose conduct is unbecoming all during the week come
to church on Sunday actually thinking He's glad to see them show
up for some quality time together.
_[/font]
[/quote]
If we are speaking of the offering of Cain and Abel, it was the
disobedience of Cain's offering...It also shows us that they had
been told what was the proper process for a sacrifice which
Cain did not follow...
Blade
#Post#: 9131--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cain According To James
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 10, 2019, 3:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● Gen 4:7 . . If you do what is right, will you not be
accepted?
FAQ: What do you suppose Cain would've had to do right in order
for him to be accepted?
A: Judging from Gen 4:8 and 1John 3:14-15, Cain would've, at the
very least, had to stop hating his kid brother.
● Matt 5:22-24 . . I say to you that everyone who is angry
with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults
his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says
"You fool" shall be liable to the hell of fire.
. . . So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there
remember that your brother has something against you; leave your
gift there before the altar and go-- first be reconciled to your
brother, and then come and offer your gift.
NOTE: Dysfunctional families really ought to stay home on
Sundays and watch football or mow the lawn instead of coming to
church till they resolve their differences and can all put on an
honest happy face when they're together in public.
FAQ: Don't all families squabble to some degree?
A: We're not talking about squabbles; we're talking about hate;
and not just any hate, rather, a hatred that's gone beyond anger
and congealed into a lingering malice that's intense enough to
want someone dead. (cf. Gen 37:4-20)
_[/font]
#Post#: 9132--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cain According To James
By: guest8 Date: December 10, 2019, 6:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=696.msg9131#msg9131
date=1576012784]
.[font=arial]
● Gen 4:7 . . If you do what is right, will you not be
accepted?
FAQ: What do you suppose Cain would've had to do right in order
for him to be accepted?
A: Judging from Gen 4:8 and 1John 3:14-15, and Cain would've, at
the very least, had to stop hating his kid brother.
● Matt 5:22-24 . . I say to you that everyone who is angry
with his brother shall be liable to judgment; whoever insults
his brother shall be liable to the council, and whoever says
"You fool" shall be liable to the hell of fire.
. . . So if you are offering your gift at the altar, and there
remember that your brother has something against you; leave your
gift there before the altar and go-- first be reconciled to your
brother, and then come and offer your gift.
NOTE: Dysfunctional families really ought to stay home on
Sundays and watch football or mow the lawn instead of coming to
church till they resolve their differences and can all put on an
honest happy face when they're together in public.
_[/font]
[/quote]
YOUR NOTE: It is not that easy....for family squabbles to
become non-existant.
Blade
#Post#: 9173--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cain According To James
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 12, 2019, 10:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.[font=arial]
● Jude 11 . . Woe to them. They have taken the way of
Cain.
Cain's way began with Gen 4:16, which says:
"Cain went out from The Lord's presence"
Apparently Cain's departure was permanent because he's never
again shown in contact with God for the remainder of the Bible.
In other words; Cain's rapport with God ended abruptly that very
day and was never restored.
During an evening service in church many years ago, the minister
asked everyone to stand and promise God that they would make an
effort to avoid sin. Well, my sister and I made the promise but
my brother did not. When we got home I asked my brother why he
didn't make the promise. He replied: "There's some things I want
to do."
God had put that very same choice on the table for Cain to think
about when He said:
"If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?" (Gen 4:7)
Well; neither my brother nor Cain were interested in doing
what's right; they had other ideas.
The "woe" in Jude 11 isn't just an expression of sympathy; no,
it's a reality. Here's the wording of it from Gen 4:7
"If you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door;
it desires to have you, but you must master it."
Well; piety and self control were not Cain's highest priorities.
He was determined to do as he pleased; viz; Cain stepped out on
the road to depravity; and my brother did too.
Jude 3-4 warns that Christianity is infected with a number of
people on Cain's path-- some are pastors, priests, and
ministers, some are officers on church boards, some are deacons,
some are elders, some are even Sunday school and catechism
teachers; so be careful out there.
NOTE: People like Cain, and Jacob's uncle Laban, are
curiosities. Neither man was an atheist, and both were
privileged by personal encounters with the one true God; yet the
encounters failed to motivate either to change his ways.
_[/font]
#Post#: 9177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Cain According To James
By: guest8 Date: December 12, 2019, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=696.msg9173#msg9173
date=1576169683]
.[font=arial]
● Jude 11 . . Woe to them. They have taken the way of
Cain.
Cain's way began with Gen 4:16, which says:
"Cain went out from The Lord's presence"
Apparently Cain's departure was permanent because he's never
again shown in contact with God for the remainder of the Bible.
In other words; Cain's rapport with God ended abruptly that very
day and was never restored.
During an evening service in church many years ago, the minister
asked everyone to stand and promise God that they would make an
effort to avoid sin. Well, my sister and I made the promise but
my brother did not. When we got home I asked my brother why he
didn't make the promise. He replied: "There's some things I want
to do."
God had put that very same choice on the table for Cain to think
about when He said:
"If you do what is right, will you not be accepted?" (Gen 4:7)
Well; neither my brother nor Cain were interested in doing
what's right; they had other ideas.
The "woe" in Jude 11 isn't just an expression of sympathy; no,
it's a reality. Here's the wording of it from Gen 4:7
"If you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door;
it desires to have you, but you must master it."
Well; piety and self control were not Cain's highest priorities.
He was determined to do as he pleased; viz; Cain stepped out on
the road to depravity; and my brother did too.
Jude 3-4 warns that Christianity is infected with a number of
people on Cain's path-- some are pastors, priests, and
ministers, some are officers on church boards, some are deacons,
some are elders, some are even Sunday school and catechism
teachers; so be careful out there.
NOTE: People like Cain, and Jacob's uncle Laban, are
curiosities. Neither man was an atheist, and both were
privileged by personal encounters with the one true God; yet the
encounters failed to motivate either to change his ways.
_[/font]
[/quote]
You are placing your own theology into this ...Cain yes was
never mentioned again in the BIBLE>...That does not mean He was
on the wrong side of GOD....In fact, I will not be surprised
that Cain will probably be in Heaven....You see all His
Children, all of their names have "EL" (GOD) in them.....Why
would Cain do that if he and GOD were at odds.
Blade
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