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#Post#: 8682--------------------------------------------------
Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: epostle Date: November 8, 2019, 11:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Monsignor Arizmendi spoke from his own experience among
indigenous populations. And he answered the question, giving the
response of one who is baptized.
In fact, statuettes representing a pregnant woman and the child
she is carrying were presented during the Synod on Amazonia,
sparking accusations of idolatry. Five statuettes were thrown
into the Tiber. Made of wood, they floated and the Italian
police recovered three of them. Then, at the request of Cardinal
Fernando Filoni, Prefect of the Congregation for the
Evangelization of Peoples, they were entrusted to that
Dicastery.
Images and figurines, which were used in the opening ceremonies,
in the Vatican Gardens, of the Pan-Amazonian Synod, and in the
initial procession from Saint Peter’s Basilica to the Synodal
Hall, in which Pope Francis took part, and then <used> in other
churches of Rome, caused a great stir. Some condemned these
actions as if they were idolatry, adoration of “Mother Earth”
and other “divinities.”
***Nothing of that happened.***
They aren’t goddesses; it was not an idolatrous worship. They
are symbols of Amazonian realities and experiences, with
motivation that are not only cultural but also religious, but
not of adoration, as this is owed only to God. It’s very bold to
condemn the Pope as an idolater, as he never has been or will
be. At the end of the ceremony in the Vatican Gardens, he was
asked to speak and he limited himself to praying the Our Father.
There is no other God than our Father in Heaven.
Years ago, in a CELAM meeting, which I had to coordinate in
Cochabamba, Bolivia, on the different names of God in the native
cultures of the Southern Cone, I asked an Aymara Indian woman
if, for them, Pachamama (Mother Earth) and Inti (Father Sun) are
gods, and she answered me:
Those who haven’t received evangelization consider them gods;
for those of us who have been evangelized, they aren’t gods, but
God’s best gifts.
Wonderful answer! That’s what they are! They are manifestations
of God’s love, not gods.
In my previous diocese, when I heard with much affection and
respect talk of “Mother Earth,” I felt uncomfortable, as I said
to myself: My only mothers are my mamma, the Virgin Mary, and
the Church. And when I saw them prostrate themselves and kiss
the earth, I was even more bothered. However, living with the
Indians, I understood they didn’t adore her Mother Earth as a
goddess, but they wanted to value her and acknowledge her as a
true mother, as she is the one that gives us food to eat, the
one that gives us water, air and all that we need to live. They
didn’t consider her a goddess; they didn’t adore her; they only
expressed their respect and prayed, thanking God for her.
I felt the same when I saw them going to the four corners of the
universe, the cardinal points, they revered them, they prayed
and they also addressed the sun with great respect. Before
knowing them and sharing the faith with them, I was tempted to
judge them and condemn them as idolaters. Then I appreciated
their respect for these elements of nature that give us life,
and I was convinced that they didn’t adore them as gods, but as
God’s work, His gifts to humanity, and this is also the way they
educate their children – not to destroy them, but to look after
them and respect them. They aren’t idolaters. Those that affirm
this don’t know them and judge them at a distance, from afar and
from outside. The earth and the sun are creatures of God and Him
alone do we adore.
THINK
The Bible says: “Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the
ground” (Genesis 2:7). On Ash Wednesday we are reminded:
“Remember that you are dust and unto dust thou shalt return.”
This is the reality of all humans.
In the Document of Aparecida, we give the name “mother” to
Sister Earth, following the example of Saint Francis of Assisi,
who wasn’t an idolater. “With the native people of America, we
praise the Lord who created the universe as a space for life and
the coexistence of all His sons and daughters and He left it to
us as a sign of His goodness and His beauty. Creation is also a
manifestation of God’s provident love: it has been given to us
to look after it and to transform it into a fitting source of
life for all. Although today a greater valuation of nature is
generalized, we perceive clearly in how many ways man threatens
and destroys his ‘habitat.’ “Our Sister Mother Earth” (Canticle
of Creatures, 9) is our common home and that place of God’s
covenant with human beings and with the whole of creation. To
disregard mutual relations and the balance that God Himself
established among created realities, is an offense to the
Creator, an attempt against biodiversity and, definitely,
against life. The missionary disciple, to whom God entrusted
creation, must contemplate it, look after it and use it always
respecting the order God gave it” (DA 125).
And to remove all doubt about the Pope’s attitude, suffice it to
recall what he wrote in Laudato Si’:
“When we become aware of God’s reflection in all that exists,
our heart feels the desire to adore the Lord for all His
creatures and, together with them, as expressed in Saint Francis
of Assisi’s beautiful hymn: ‘Be praised, my Lord, with all your
creatures . . . ‘”(No. 87). “The creatures of this world cannot
be considered a good without an owner: Thou sparest all things,
for they are thine, O Lord who lovest the living” (Wisdom
11:26). This arouses the conviction that being created by the
same Father, all beings of the universe are united by invisible
ties and we make up a sort of universal family, a sublime
communion that moves us to sacred, affectionate and humble
respect” (No. 89). “This doesn’t mean making all living beings
equal and taking away from the human being that peculiar value
that implies at the same time a tremendous responsibility.
Neither does it imply a divinization of the earth, which would
deprive us of the call to collaborate with it and to protect its
fragility” (No. 90).
ACT
As Jesus says, let us not judge as idolatry what is not so. Let
us know in greater depth the native cultures. And it’s our task
to share Jesus’ Gospel, which frees us from idolatries, wherever
they might be.
HTML https://zenit.org/articles/is-pachamama-a-goddess-asks-monsignor-felipe-arizmendi-esquivel/
#Post#: 8695--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: guest8 Date: November 9, 2019, 7:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=epostle link=topic=663.msg8682#msg8682
date=1573278876]
Monsignor Arizmendi spoke from his own experience among
indigenous populations. And he answered the question, giving the
response of one who is baptized.
In fact, statuettes representing a pregnant woman and the child
she is carrying were presented during the Synod on Amazonia,
sparking accusations of idolatry. Five statuettes were thrown
into the Tiber. Made of wood, they floated and the Italian
police recovered three of them. Then, at the request of Cardinal
Fernando Filoni, Prefect of the Congregation for the
Evangelization of Peoples, they were entrusted to that
Dicastery.
Images and figurines, which were used in the opening ceremonies,
in the Vatican Gardens, of the Pan-Amazonian Synod, and in the
initial procession from Saint Peter’s Basilica to the Synodal
Hall, in which Pope Francis took part, and then <used> in other
churches of Rome, caused a great stir. Some condemned these
actions as if they were idolatry, adoration of “Mother Earth”
and other “divinities.”
***Nothing of that happened.***
They aren’t goddesses; it was not an idolatrous worship. They
are symbols of Amazonian realities and experiences, with
motivation that are not only cultural but also religious, but
not of adoration, as this is owed only to God. It’s very bold to
condemn the Pope as an idolater, as he never has been or will
be. At the end of the ceremony in the Vatican Gardens, he was
asked to speak and he limited himself to praying the Our Father.
There is no other God than our Father in Heaven.
Years ago, in a CELAM meeting, which I had to coordinate in
Cochabamba, Bolivia, on the different names of God in the native
cultures of the Southern Cone, I asked an Aymara Indian woman
if, for them, Pachamama (Mother Earth) and Inti (Father Sun) are
gods, and she answered me:
Those who haven’t received evangelization consider them gods;
for those of us who have been evangelized, they aren’t gods, but
God’s best gifts.
Wonderful answer! That’s what they are! They are manifestations
of God’s love, not gods.
In my previous diocese, when I heard with much affection and
respect talk of “Mother Earth,” I felt uncomfortable, as I said
to myself: My only mothers are my mamma, the Virgin Mary, and
the Church. And when I saw them prostrate themselves and kiss
the earth, I was even more bothered. However, living with the
Indians, I understood they didn’t adore her Mother Earth as a
goddess, but they wanted to value her and acknowledge her as a
true mother, as she is the one that gives us food to eat, the
one that gives us water, air and all that we need to live. They
didn’t consider her a goddess; they didn’t adore her; they only
expressed their respect and prayed, thanking God for her.
I felt the same when I saw them going to the four corners of the
universe, the cardinal points, they revered them, they prayed
and they also addressed the sun with great respect. Before
knowing them and sharing the faith with them, I was tempted to
judge them and condemn them as idolaters. Then I appreciated
their respect for these elements of nature that give us life,
and I was convinced that they didn’t adore them as gods, but as
God’s work, His gifts to humanity, and this is also the way they
educate their children – not to destroy them, but to look after
them and respect them. They aren’t idolaters. Those that affirm
this don’t know them and judge them at a distance, from afar and
from outside. The earth and the sun are creatures of God and Him
alone do we adore.
THINK
The Bible says: “Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the
ground” (Genesis 2:7). On Ash Wednesday we are reminded:
“Remember that you are dust and unto dust thou shalt return.”
This is the reality of all humans.
In the Document of Aparecida, we give the name “mother” to
Sister Earth, following the example of Saint Francis of Assisi,
who wasn’t an idolater. “With the native people of America, we
praise the Lord who created the universe as a space for life and
the coexistence of all His sons and daughters and He left it to
us as a sign of His goodness and His beauty. Creation is also a
manifestation of God’s provident love: it has been given to us
to look after it and to transform it into a fitting source of
life for all. Although today a greater valuation of nature is
generalized, we perceive clearly in how many ways man threatens
and destroys his ‘habitat.’ “Our Sister Mother Earth” (Canticle
of Creatures, 9) is our common home and that place of God’s
covenant with human beings and with the whole of creation. To
disregard mutual relations and the balance that God Himself
established among created realities, is an offense to the
Creator, an attempt against biodiversity and, definitely,
against life. The missionary disciple, to whom God entrusted
creation, must contemplate it, look after it and use it always
respecting the order God gave it” (DA 125).
And to remove all doubt about the Pope’s attitude, suffice it to
recall what he wrote in Laudato Si’:
“When we become aware of God’s reflection in all that exists,
our heart feels the desire to adore the Lord for all His
creatures and, together with them, as expressed in Saint Francis
of Assisi’s beautiful hymn: ‘Be praised, my Lord, with all your
creatures . . . ‘”(No. 87). “The creatures of this world cannot
be considered a good without an owner: Thou sparest all things,
for they are thine, O Lord who lovest the living” (Wisdom
11:26). This arouses the conviction that being created by the
same Father, all beings of the universe are united by invisible
ties and we make up a sort of universal family, a sublime
communion that moves us to sacred, affectionate and humble
respect” (No. 89). “This doesn’t mean making all living beings
equal and taking away from the human being that peculiar value
that implies at the same time a tremendous responsibility.
Neither does it imply a divinization of the earth, which would
deprive us of the call to collaborate with it and to protect its
fragility” (No. 90).
ACT
As Jesus says, let us not judge as idolatry what is not so. Let
us know in greater depth the native cultures. And it’s our task
to share Jesus’ Gospel, which frees us from idolatries, wherever
they might be.
HTML https://zenit.org/articles/is-pachamama-a-goddess-asks-monsignor-felipe-arizmendi-esquivel/
[/quote]
The pope calling this an idol all the while he has many many
idols that people pray to...........
Blade
#Post#: 8697--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: epostle Date: November 9, 2019, 10:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Does being a moderator permit you post insulting, stupid and
ignorant replies? How can I sign up?
#Post#: 8700--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: guest33 Date: November 9, 2019, 11:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=georgia]Dear epostle,
I just have to say that you should ask Blade to explain more
fully what he was saying. I do have a problem with the Pope
worshiping Jesus' mother and other 'saints.' Jesus did not tell
us to worship His mother. He said to worship GOD. The same
thing goes with the various saints that they put on a pedestal.
There is no Mother Nature either. It is simply the Lord who
causes all of the weather, etc. Hey, I've always felt this way.
But, I do love the Catholic people and the fact that they
accept Jesus as God's Son, and their own Savior. That tells me
a lot and I feel they are Christians, too.
I'm not a moderator, but thought I should share these things.
It is not right for them to play bingo at the church either, for
that is gambling and it is a house of worship. Something is
just not right.
Michael
[/font]
#Post#: 8701--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: epostle Date: November 9, 2019, 11:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Hi Michael,
10 Things Catholics are Sick of Hearing
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DETqrhg39Qs
None of the formatting features are working, I don't understand
why.
#Post#: 8702--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: epostle Date: November 10, 2019, 5:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=MichaelC link=topic=663.msg8700#msg8700
date=1573363180]
[color=navy][size=10pt][font=georgia][i][b]Dear epostle,
[quote]I just have to say that you should ask Blade to explain
more fully what he was saying.[/quote] I know exactly what he is
saying. A meaningless flaming zinger based on blind prejudice.
[quote]I do have a problem with the Pope worshiping Jesus'
mother and other 'saints.' [/quote] Of course you do.
Anti-Catholic myths has been part of your training. It's so
automatic you don't realize you are doing it. You will have to
show me in any official Catholic document in a 2000 year period
that instructs Catholics to worship Mary or other saints. It's a
stupid canard. [quote]Jesus did not tell us to worship His
mother.[/quote] Please stop saying Catholics worship Mary. It's
insulting. The honor we give to Mary is the same kind of honor
that you give to Paul. Human to human. Only more of it. Paul
didn't give birth to the Messiah. We think that makes Mary
special. Don't you? The anti-Mary animus in Protestantism is not
biblical. Are we not to imitate Christ? Did Jesus honor His
mother? Oh sure, imitate Christ, but not that!?!
We honor saints because of their exemplary life in Christ. We
marvel at their holiness centuries later, and even recent ones.
[quote] He said to worship GOD. [/quote] Catholics worship only
God and God alone. But don't take my word for it; attend a Mass
and see for yourself. [quote]The same thing goes with the
various saints that they put on a pedestal.[/quote] I'm sure
you have met holy Christians in your life, who bear abundant
fruit. Do you put them on a pedestal? Of course not.
[quote]There is no Mother Nature either. It is simply the Lord
who causes all of the weather, etc. Hey, I've always felt this
way.[/quote]Agreed. It's a common euphemism that doesn't
necessarily mean creation worship. It's used in every day
language. [quote] But, I do love the Catholic people and the
fact that they accept Jesus as God's Son, and their own Savior.
That tells me a lot and I feel they are Christians, too.
[/quote] Thank you.
[quote]I'm not a moderator, but thought I should share these
things. It is not right for them to play bingo at the church
either, for that is gambling and it is a house of worship.
Something is just not right.[/quote] People go to bingos for
fellowship and to raise money for charity. They are strictly
regulated by various government entities. Every penny is
accounted for according to the laws of the land. They were never
held in a church, but in a hall. Now, various charities take
turns running them in public places. I haven't seen a church
bingo in 40 years. Equating church bingos with casinos is nit
picking phariseeism.
#Post#: 8713--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: guest33 Date: November 10, 2019, 7:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=epostle link=topic=663.msg8701#msg8701
date=1573363715]
Hi Michael,
10 Things Catholics are Sick of Hearing
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DETqrhg39Qs
None of the formatting features are working, I don't understand
why.
[/quote]
Dear Epostle,
I watched the video for about 5 mins. I am not going to watch
it for an hour.
God's Blessing Upon You,
Michael
#Post#: 8714--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: guest8 Date: November 10, 2019, 7:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=epostle link=topic=663.msg8702#msg8702
date=1573385952]
[quote author=MichaelC link=topic=663.msg8700#msg8700
date=1573363180]
[size=10pt][font=georgia][i][b]Dear epostle,
[quote]I just have to say that you should ask Blade to explain
more fully what he was saying.[/quote] I know exactly what he is
saying. A meaningless flaming zinger based on blind prejudice.
[quote]I do have a problem with the Pope worshiping Jesus'
mother and other 'saints.' [/quote] Of course you do.
Anti-Catholic myths has been part of your training. It's so
automatic you don't realize you are doing it. You will have to
show me in any official Catholic document in a 2000 year period
that instructs Catholics to worship Mary or other saints. It's a
stupid canard. [quote]Jesus did not tell us to worship His
mother.[/quote] Please stop saying Catholics worship Mary. It's
insulting. The honor we give to Mary is the same kind of honor
that you give to Paul. Human to human. Only more of it. Paul
didn't give birth to the Messiah. We think that makes Mary
special. Don't you? The anti-Mary animus in Protestantism is not
biblical. Are we not to imitate Christ? Did Jesus honor His
mother? Oh sure, imitate Christ, but not that!?!
We honor saints because of their exemplary life in Christ. We
marvel at their holiness centuries later, and even recent ones.
[quote] He said to worship GOD. [/quote] Catholics worship only
God and God alone. But don't take my word for it; attend a Mass
and see for yourself. [quote]The same thing goes with the
various saints that they put on a pedestal.[/quote] I'm sure
you have met holy Christians in your life, who bear abundant
fruit. Do you put them on a pedestal? Of course not.
[quote]There is no Mother Nature either. It is simply the Lord
who causes all of the weather, etc. Hey, I've always felt this
way.[/quote]Agreed. It's a common euphemism that doesn't
necessarily mean creation worship. It's used in every day
language. [quote] But, I do love the Catholic people and the
fact that they accept Jesus as God's Son, and their own Savior.
That tells me a lot and I feel they are Christians, too.
[/quote] Thank you.
[quote]I'm not a moderator, but thought I should share these
things. It is not right for them to play bingo at the church
either, for that is gambling and it is a house of worship.
Something is just not right.[/quote] People go to bingos for
fellowship and to raise money for charity. They are strictly
regulated by various government entities. Every penny is
accounted for according to the laws of the land. They were never
held in a church, but in a hall. Now, various charities take
turns running them in public places. I haven't seen a church
bingo in 40 years. Equating church bingos with casinos is nit
picking phariseeism.
[/quote]
[color=blue]
The Pope deemed Mary as Co-redemtrix..She can save you as well
as Jesus can.....wellllllllll NOT in the real world reality
but only in the catholic church
While I do not subscribe to Wikipedia in any form, I did copy
the following from its pages just for your
info.....enjoy.....The Catholic Church has fallen away from
Jesus Christ and if you read the letter to Thyatira you will
find the problems they are having parallel the Catholic church
down through the centuries.
Rev 2:18-29
Blade
#Post#: 8725--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: guest33 Date: November 10, 2019, 8:24 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=epostle link=topic=663.msg8702#msg8702
date=1573385952]
[quote author=MichaelC link=topic=663.msg8700#msg8700
date=1573363180]
[font=georgia]Dear epostle,
[quote]I just have to say that you should ask Blade to explain
more fully what he was saying.[/quote] I know exactly what he is
saying. A meaningless flaming zinger based on blind prejudice.
[quote]I do have a problem with the Pope worshiping Jesus'
mother and other 'saints.' [/quote] Of course you do.
Anti-Catholic myths has been part of your training. It's so
automatic you don't realize you are doing it. You will have to
show me in any official Catholic document in a 2000 year period
that instructs Catholics to worship Mary or other saints. It's a
stupid canard. [quote]Jesus did not tell us to worship His
mother.[/quote] Please stop saying Catholics worship Mary. It's
insulting. The honor we give to Mary is the same kind of honor
that you give to Paul. Human to human. Only more of it. Paul
didn't give birth to the Messiah. We think that makes Mary
special. Don't you? The anti-Mary animus in Protestantism is not
biblical. Are we not to imitate Christ? Did Jesus honor His
mother? Oh sure, imitate Christ, but not that!?!
We honor saints because of their exemplary life in Christ. We
marvel at their holiness centuries later, and even recent ones.
[quote] He said to worship GOD. [/quote] Catholics worship only
God and God alone. But don't take my word for it; attend a Mass
and see for yourself. [quote]The same thing goes with the
various saints that they put on a pedestal.[/quote] I'm sure
you have met holy Christians in your life, who bear abundant
fruit. Do you put them on a pedestal? Of course not.
[quote]There is no Mother Nature either. It is simply the Lord
who causes all of the weather, etc. Hey, I've always felt this
way.[/quote]Agreed. It's a common euphemism that doesn't
necessarily mean creation worship. It's used in every day
language. [quote] But, I do love the Catholic people and the
fact that they accept Jesus as God's Son, and their own Savior.
That tells me a lot and I feel they are Christians, too.
[/quote] Thank you.
[quote]I'm not a moderator, but thought I should share these
things. It is not right for them to play bingo at the church
either, for that is gambling and it is a house of worship.
Something is just not right.[/quote] People go to bingos for
fellowship and to raise money for charity. They are strictly
regulated by various government entities. Every penny is
accounted for according to the laws of the land. They were never
held in a church, but in a hall. Now, various charities take
turns running them in public places. I haven't seen a church
bingo in 40 years. Equating church bingos with casinos is nit
picking phariseeism.
[/quote]
[color=maroon][size=12pt][font=trebuchet ms][i][b]Dear epostle,
I don't quite know how to answer {quote} separate sentences or
paragraphs, so I'll write this in one post. I want to tell you
that I have been to Mass a couple times and they placed more
emphasis & attention on Mary than on her son, Jesus. She even
got more attention than God there. We had to keep saying Hail
Mary's and it was just unusual to me. But every church is
different.
I love Mary just fine and can imagine how hard it must have been
to have Jesus as a human son. Also, you have to balance your
knees on a hard board of wood in order to pray. It sucked. I
was so uncomfortable with the kneeling that I could hardly enjoy
the prayer from the priest.
Then, I went to bingo about three times, and it was always in
the same part of the Church. But, that happened back in the
80's. We went to Canada for bingo. I did not buy any bingo
cards. I went with a couple of friends.
I also remember going into the church and sprinkling my face
with some water and that hardly did it for me. I was baptized
in a baptismal pool in a Baptist Church here in Phoenix. I am
not a Baptist, though. I go there because of how the pastor
preached when he was at my uncle's funeral. I am
non-denominational. I wanted to get baptized sometime in my
life, though.
Hey, I'm not trying to dis ya.' I love Catholics as much as I
love Christians and that is what is in my heart. I see hardly a
difference between them. Just because you have a couple of
things different doesn't make much of a hoot to me. I love them
as much as I love all brethren.
Now, I put most of my love and emphasis upon God, the Father.
After that, His Son, Jesus. Then probably Mary. I don't put
any emphasis on Paul, to be honest. I am thankful for all of
the prophets, like Noah and Elijah, and also Mary, and the
disciples. It must have been really hard for Mary to tell
others that she was pregnant with God's baby! What a trip!! I
do love her dearly as someone who is extraordinary, but I
worship only God and Jesus. I do feel for her, though.
The Catholic Churches that I went to was one in Michigan and one
in Canada. I did go to St. Peter's Cathedral while I was in
NYC, also. I went there to try to tell them about some of my
many extraordinary spiritual experiences. Well, I got no help,
but the priest did hit on me. I don't care really because I
have nothing against gay persons and priests are human, too.
I like to love as many people that I meet in life, for I believe
that is what Jesus was all about. This includes loving my
enemies. Everyone is loved by me most of the time, but I do not
love their ways or actions at times.
I am not trying to bash Catholic brothers and sisters in the
slightest. I'm glad that you love Jesus and God. I will see
you in Heaven, if the Lord God deems us ready.
Much Love, In Christ,
Michael
[/font]
#Post#: 8726--------------------------------------------------
Re: Spotlight on the Pachamama Controversy
By: guest33 Date: November 10, 2019, 8:50 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=663.msg8714#msg8714
date=1573435277]
[quote author=epostle link=topic=663.msg8702#msg8702
date=1573385952]
[quote author=MichaelC link=topic=663.msg8700#msg8700
date=1573363180]
[font=georgia]Dear epostle,
[quote]I just have to say that you should ask Blade to explain
more fully what he was saying.[/quote] I know exactly what he is
saying. A meaningless flaming zinger based on blind prejudice.
[quote]I do have a problem with the Pope worshiping Jesus'
mother and other 'saints.' [/quote] Of course you do.
Anti-Catholic myths has been part of your training. It's so
automatic you don't realize you are doing it. You will have to
show me in any official Catholic document in a 2000 year period
that instructs Catholics to worship Mary or other saints. It's a
stupid canard. [quote]Jesus did not tell us to worship His
mother.[/quote] Please stop saying Catholics worship Mary. It's
insulting. The honor we give to Mary is the same kind of honor
that you give to Paul. Human to human. Only more of it. Paul
didn't give birth to the Messiah. We think that makes Mary
special. Don't you? The anti-Mary animus in Protestantism is not
biblical. Are we not to imitate Christ? Did Jesus honor His
mother? Oh sure, imitate Christ, but not that!?!
We honor saints because of their exemplary life in Christ. We
marvel at their holiness centuries later, and even recent ones.
[quote] He said to worship GOD. [/quote] Catholics worship only
God and God alone. But don't take my word for it; attend a Mass
and see for yourself. [quote]The same thing goes with the
various saints that they put on a pedestal.[/quote] I'm sure
you have met holy Christians in your life, who bear abundant
fruit. Do you put them on a pedestal? Of course not.
[quote]There is no Mother Nature either. It is simply the Lord
who causes all of the weather, etc. Hey, I've always felt this
way.[/quote]Agreed. It's a common euphemism that doesn't
necessarily mean creation worship. It's used in every day
language. [quote] But, I do love the Catholic people and the
fact that they accept Jesus as God's Son, and their own Savior.
That tells me a lot and I feel they are Christians, too.
[/quote] Thank you.
[quote]I'm not a moderator, but thought I should share these
things. It is not right for them to play bingo at the church
either, for that is gambling and it is a house of worship.
Something is just not right.[/quote] People go to bingos for
fellowship and to raise money for charity. They are strictly
regulated by various government entities. Every penny is
accounted for according to the laws of the land. They were never
held in a church, but in a hall. Now, various charities take
turns running them in public places. I haven't seen a church
bingo in 40 years. Equating church bingos with casinos is nit
picking phariseeism.
[/quote]
[color=blue]
The Pope deemed Mary as Co-redemtrix..She can save you as well
as Jesus can.....wellllllllll NOT in the real world reality
but only in the catholic church
While I do not subscribe to Wikipedia in any form, I did copy
the following from its pages just for your
info.....enjoy.....The Catholic Church has fallen away from
Jesus Christ and if you read the letter to Thyatira you will
find the problems they are having parallel the Catholic church
down through the centuries.
Rev 2:18-29
Blade
[/quote]
[size=14pt][font=andale mono][i][b]Howdy, Blade --
I hope that you are doing decent, lately, and that you are full
of joy regarding the time that is at hand. We are blessed to
live during these days and will see many incredible occurrences.
Now, Blade, I don't know what to say to you right now. I know
that His disciples were given the power or ability to heal
others, but I don't know if they have the power to 'save' souls.
No, I don't see that happening, so I can see what you mean.
She is indeed a lady with no match among women during our
generation of Adam. It is good to revere her, but not to put
her status above God or Jesus. I think that John the Baptist
had a hard job to do, besides her.
That's really all that I have to say about it for now. Let's
not be caught up in whether Mary is worthy of worship in saving
souls, or not. I doubt it, too. I think we must leave it to
her Son & God, to be saving souls.
Tons Of Love & Pleasant Times, For You & Yours,
Michael
[/font]
[font=verdana]Dear epostle,
I am just fine with you and figure that Mary is precious indeed.
Perhaps, she can save souls because of how much the Lord God
loved her, considering she birthed His son. That is beyond
words in a way. She could certainly put in a good word to God
or Jesus to help save that soul. So, you don't believe Mary can
save souls? I don't either, but her influence must be enormous.
I love her dearly, but God is my dear best friend, and Father.
Jesus is the same as God, even though they are different
vessels. They both are filled with God's Spirit. I love them
both very much, but God takes a bit more precedence than Jesus,
because the Father is more than the Son. Still, I worship them
as One. And the Holy Ghost is extremely excellent and He has
visited me a number of times. Sometimes, I cry and laugh at the
same time. I am so very thankful that the Lord God would send
Him to me so often. He usually comes at a time when I really
need the help, inspiration, and solace/ peace.
You are Catholic and that is fine with me. You're loved by God
and Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and God's angels. You don't need any
more than that. We all get difficulties sometimes because of
our beliefs. Have to get going, buddy!
May Jesus Charge His Angels To Give You Strength and Joy!!
Michael
[/font]
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