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DIR Return to: Biblical Pre-Conception Existence Theology (PCE)
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#Post#: 8442--------------------------------------------------
Eve's Blindness
By: guest58 Date: October 21, 2019, 2:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of
the field, which the LORD GOD had made.[58]
Strong's(#14) gives the meaning of subtil, 6175 - aw-room, as:
“passive participle of 6191[59]; cunning (usually in a bad
sense): translated as: crafty, prudent, subtil.” Therefore, I
believe that I can say that this attribute carries the
connotation of moral badness. The serpent was bad to be subtle,
and if that is so, then, the rest of the animals must have been
a bit bad too, but just not quite so bad as the serpent. Now, I
believe that this is somewhat contrary to the picture that we
are usually given of the good old animals in “pre-fall” Eden.
We are usually given a picture of complete peace and goodness
among the entire animal population.[60] Of course, we should not
forget where that idealistic picture comes from. It is
necessitated by the presupposition that none of us existed
before the earthly creation. Therefore, the garden had to be
faultless in all respects or else the works of GOD would not
match up with the character They have revealed to us. Therefore,
we just change or ignore a few Scriptures like this one, rather
than changing our presuppositions. Iow, the good animals are
pure eisegesis!
Well, now we have another Scripture that says that something was
bad in the garden before Adam and Eve ate the fruit. First, it
was bad that Adam was alone. Second, it was bad that they were
naked but not ashamed. Third, now we have a lot of bad animals
too. And who are we to blame for all this badness? Well, if we
blame Adam and Eve, that is, if GOD created it bad in response
to their previous sin, then we must also admit that we all
existed before our conception and that we are given life to be
saved by learning to be faithful unto the degree of obedience
that is holy.
Genesis 3:5 For GOD doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods (elohim,
NIV:
GOD) knowing good and evil.[61] Many of the traditional
interpretations of this verse have Eve wanting to be like GOD,
ie, coveting the glory of GOD for herself to the extent of being
willing to make a grab for it, while trusting primarily on the
witness of the serpent to the effect that she would not receive
or could thwart GOD's judgement of death; and secondly, trusting
her own rationality, which also helped to convince her that the
serpent's way was indeed better and attainable. This
interpretation also forces us to believe that she was an
horrible liar in that she attempted to blame her fall, not on
her wilful sin (covetousness) but on the fact that she was
beguiled, that is, misled by a seducing evil spirit.
According to pre-conception theology, she fell because she
listened to the lie of the serpent, which lie she was prone to
believing because she thought him to be a minister of GOD's
grace (ie, she was spiritually blind, unable to always
distinguish between good and evil preachers) and because she
greatly desired to become like the ELOHIM. Her desire was the
same as every believer (who would like to get into Paradise),
commendable and quite normal.
All denunciations of Eve are about her wanting to be like God,
yet WE ARE TO BECOME LIKE JESUS and emulate the Christ to
fulfill His plan for us as I John 1, Colossians 3:8-17, and 1
Peter 1:15-16, "But as he which hath called you is holy so be ye
holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, 'be
ye holy; for I am holy'." suggests.[62] Her sin was in seeking
to obtain this worthy goal through the “faithful"***[63]*** way
that the serpent suggested to her. She obviously believed that
he was trying to help her achieve this goal, but alas, to her
shame, he had another goal in mind, and was lying to her.
[ASIDE:
Gen 3:5: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then
your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good
and evil. [B]No one has ever rationally explained to me how
knowing the difference between good and evil is bad. [/B]In
fact, such knowledge is the base of all religious maturity and
perfection: Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who
by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil., 1Kings 3:9 So give your servant a discerning heart to
govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong.
and Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put
bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. ]
Thus we can see that Eve's error was directly attributable to
her spiritual blindness, that is, to the fact that she listened
to him as if he were her friend and divine messenger, rather
than looking on him as being one of her worst enemies.
Now, if GOD created her spiritually blind, that is, in such a
way that she would be very prone to looking on the serpent as
her friend, and HE refused or neglected to warn her of satan'sss
nature, that is, of the incredible danger she would be in if she
listened to him, how can we say that GOD loved her or did
everything without fault? One would think that if HE had any
love in HIM, HE would have warned her about him, HE doing
everything perfectly and she being so "blind, naive,[64]
innocent and undefiled", right? Of course, if she was already
defiled and blinded by her unwillingness to believe GOD's word
about HIS enemies and by her friendliness towards them, then GOD
just might have put her in HIS earthly garden and allowed the
serpent to beguile her into eating her way out of it, without
warning her of his evil intentions,[color=blue][65] so that she
would learn of his true character through this nasty experience
(since she was unwilling to believe HIM about HIS enemies) so
that, the next time HE called for a judgement against all of HIS
enemies, she for one, would be willing to believe HIM that such
a judgement was absolutely necessary for a peaceful life in Eden
(having found that out by her experience) and not be beguiled
out of that judgement (peaceful life) again. [/color](And what's
your favourite interpretation again?)
Perhaps if you are having a hard time deciding between the two
interpretations, you could consider this question: how did Eve
view life in Eden? To ask it another way, did Eve believe that
Edenic life was her everlasting Paradise, or did she look on it
as spiritual school time (because she was good but immature) or
did she look on it as a spiritual hospital or correctional
school (because of her fault)?
Well, it is obvious, from the serpent'sss appeal to her, that
she considered herself to be spiritually blind and wanted the
serpent's help to get to see (that is, to be like Elohim, no
longer unable to discern between the good and the evil). Thus,
it should be apparent that she knew the difference between being
blind and being able to see, that is, she knew that some PERsons
could discern between the good and the evil, and she knew that
she could not.
Now, just how do you think she came to know that she could not
see? Well, she might have been able to see before, that is, at
one time was able to distinguish between the good and the evil,
but subsequent to that time, became confused, that is, changed
her mind somewhat; or, if she had been created blind, GOD might
have told her about seeing.[66] In other words, GOD might have
told her all about the good spirits and the evil spirits, ie,
what the evil spirits were like, who they were, and her
necessity to stay away from them.
In other words, she would already have had her eyes opened by
GOD (if she believed and understood what HE was telling her).
But if her eyes were opened, that is, if she believed and
understood GOD about seeing, she would not have been blind, that
is, still open to the serpent's temptation, that is, still
accepting him as a good person with an helpful message about
God.
Well then, since this way of learning about her blindness
dissipates her blindness (that is, makes her unwilling to listen
to temptations about having her blindness cured) and since her
behaviour shows that she was still blind, she could not have
learned about being blind and seeing in this way. In other
words, either GOD did not tell her about seeing, or if HE did,
she did not believe HIM, which makes her a rebellious believer,
which blatantly contradicts the fact that she wanted to get
cured.
But since she wanted to be cured, then GOD could not have told
her, and if GOD did not tell her, this only leaves us with the
other way, to wit: she knew she was blind because she had
previously been able to see,[67] and this being the case, she
had to look on life on earth as being a spiritual hospital or
correctional centre for her faulty vision[68] (and whatever
caused it). In other words, the fact that she was spiritually
blind means that she previously had been unfaithful (the only
way one becomes blinded) and the dearth of blatant witness to
any prior unfaithfulness in Eden can only mean that her
faithlessness had taken place before she was given life on
earth, and that life (and the commandment) was created to be the
means of bringing her to repentance and faithfulness (sight)
again. So then, according to the Bible, Eve looked at life on
earth the same as a pre-conceptionist does.[69]
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD GOD said unto the serpent, Because
thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above
every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust
shalt thou eat all the days of thy life... Some of the accepted
interpretations of this verse really send me into stitches -
painful ones. Of course, not possessing the accurate
interpretation on account of the prevalence of false theological
presuppositions, and assuming that any “legless”[70]
interpretation is better than admitting that we just do not know
what all the wise GOD is talking about, it becomes very easy to
slip into interpretations that future children will really
wonder about.
So then, how else can we interpret this verse? As it plainly
reads, the cattle were cursed already and so were the beasts of
the field, this creation was not so “very good” at all by this
time. Is it too absurd to surmise that it was “originally”
created (or recreated[71]) in a fallen, cursed condition, very
good for a chastitory, converting and sanctifying purpose? No
it’s not.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed. From this prophecy we can see
that GOD's purpose in life from the time of this statement (and
quite possibly before that time, since HE planned it well before
that time) has been to put enmity[72] between the non-elect (thy
seed) and the elect (her seed).[73] I do not know of any
prevailing theology that teaches us about this as being the
foremost aspect of GOD's purpose in life, except for
pre-conception existence.[74]
The second thing worthy of note is that the putting of enmity
presupposes that enmity is as yet non-existent, and presumes
her friendship with the world of the non-elect tares. In other
words, it presupposes their knowing the good and the evil.[75] I
believe that this interpretation is backed up by Malachi 3:18,
which prophesies, I believe, of the fulfilment of this verse.
Malachi 3:18 And you will again see the distinction[76] between
the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve GOD and
those who do not. (NIV)
For those who now know how to correctly interpret the prophets,
a check on the context will confirm that in this verse Malachi
is addressing the elect in the latter days. And isn't it
interesting that Malachi views their blindness as something they
picked up along the way, rather than being the way they were
created, that is, at one time all of the now[77] blind people
could see the difference between the good and the evil, to which
sight they will finally be restored?
Conclusion for Eve's Blindness:
To my mind, this constitutes very good proof of an exceptionally
strong spiritual foundation for pre-conception theology in
Genesis.[78] Therefore, I say that pre-conception existence
theology is the most attested to by the Scriptures. Perhaps you
are thinking that I am not justified in making that statement
based on only a few exceptional hard to understand Scriptures
that did not fit in anywhere else. Well, if you do not yet
consider me justified in making that statement, then why not
continue on?
Maybe you might agree with me after you finish my first mundane,
boring category. It is my hope that you will find out, as it has
been stated by others so many times, that the message of the
Scriptures is (fairly) consistent throughout. One more thing, as
it also has been stated on so many occasions down through the
ages: welcome to revealed religion, or as the Lord so aptly
stated it in Hebrews 12:26 Yet once more I shake[79] not the
earth only, but also heaven. In other words, what do you think
is going to happen if I’m even just half as right as I say I am?
---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for: Eve's Blindness
58 - From just reading it, don’t you get the impression that the
serpent was not one of the beasts that the LORD GOD had made
then?
59 - Strong’s(#14) 6191 - aw-ram'; a primary root; properly to
be (or make) bare; but used only in the derivative sense
(through the idea perhaps of smoothness) to be cunning (usually
in a bad sense): translated as: very, beware, take crafty
(counsel), be prudent, deal subtilly. This is ALSO the root the
word “naked” in 2:25 comes from. (Genesis 2:25 And they both
were naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.) In
other words, Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than
any beast of the field which the LORD GOD had made. could just
as well be translated the serpent was more naked than any beast!
and in Gen 2:25, A&E could just as well be cunning in evil but
not ashamed! Of course, since that would be giving away the
whole show, it probably has been acceptable (as per Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance GOD winked at; but now
commandeth all men everywhere to repent.) to have the subtle
interpretation.
60 - Remember all those pictures of Adam and Eve, with all the
nice, sugary, totally unrealistic animals, usually standing in
front of them, covering them up. Radical theology to say the
least! Quite a cover-up!
61 - That is, to not be idolatrous, ie, to learn that GOD's
ideas (ways) are always the best, the most beneficial to us,
definitely better than anyone else's.
62 - Especially so if she had just recently been put out of
Paradise for not being able to distinguish between the good and
the evil.
63 - “Didn't GOD predestine you to eternal life? If so, then how
can you die? Is the GOD who wants you to live forever going to
kill you? Is something going to kill you when GOD wants you to
live forever? When are you going to start believing in the all
powerful GOD who loves you infinitely? When are you going to
believe that there is nothing more powerful than the tree of
life? HE is testing your faithfulness to HIS election promise
that you will not die!”
64 - Her blindness can not mean naivete because naivete is ended
by GOD's self-attesting witness, which they had already received
because they already accepted HIM as their GOD.
65 - Doesn't it remind you of 1 Corinthians 5:5 Deliver such an
one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit
might be saved.?
66 - GOD's enemies would not have told her about seeing, for to
do so, they would have had to tell her the truth about
themselves. In other words, being spiritually blind means
looking on some of the evil as being good, and looking on some
of the truth about evil as being a lie.
67 - This way she would know the difference but still be blind,
that is, still seeking to be cured, that is, still open to the
serpent's temptation, that is, still unwilling to stay separate
from those things GOD had told her to stay separate from. Do you
still have any doubts as to which one of these matches the
biblical account of what happened in Eden?
68 - Ie, discernment, that is, disbelief in GOD's word.
69 - Understanding does not come easy but it does come if you do
the work. So read it slowly and think about what it's saying.
And you have to do it if you're going to be on the side that
understands. Don't worry. Everything usually falls into place by
the third time through.
70 - That is, without understanding!! (Some Christians believe
that the serpent had legs before this.)
71 - Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void. The
word “was” may also be translated “became”. “Without form and
void” (Hebrew - tohu wabohu) describes the result of a divine
judgement in the other two places where the phrase is used in
the Bible (Isaiah 34:11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall
possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he
shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones
of emptiness., and Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and lo, it
was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no
light.
72 - That is, to make us faithful unto holiness, for holiness is
the only source of such enmity.
73 - Many interpret this as referring to Jesus. I do not think
that can be correct, for is it not quite unreasonable to include
Him in the group that needs to be separated in spirit from
satan's seed, that is, that needs to become holy?
74 - Just like before Jesus came there was no one teaching about
the deity of the Lamb.
75 - That is, unholiness, that is, spiritual blindness.
76 - To see the distinction is to lay upon oneself the necessity
of making the distinction, that is, the necessity of becoming
holy. Please note that in Malachi 3:18, the righteous are
defined as those who serve GOD, not those who believe in HIM.
Obviously those who serve HIM will believe in HIM, but there are
an awful lot who believe in HIM who do not serve HIM. I would
say that if you plan on being one of HIS jewels, you had better
take note of the difference.
77 - That is, the latter day elect. Just when did you first see
the difference in a way that could fulfil this prophecy? Well,
you won't wonder when you are finished with this book. (You must
take note that you did not see “in Adam” because Adam and Eve
were blind.) Welcome to a bigger universe.
78 - Of course, I've studied it enough that I can really
understand everything you've just gone over. If you want to
understand it, you'll have to read it again. It doesn’t take
long. It goes a lot faster the second time.
79 - Primary waves do not shake you up too bad, but just wait
till the love waves get here. (Look them up under
“earthquakes”.)
#Post#: 8479--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest8 Date: October 25, 2019, 2:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=642.msg8442#msg8442
date=1571687045]
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of
the field, which the LORD GOD had made.[58]
Strong's(#14) gives the meaning of subtil, 6175 - aw-room, as:
“passive participle of 6191[59]; cunning (usually in a bad
sense): translated as: crafty, prudent, subtil.” Therefore, I
believe that I can say that this attribute carries the
connotation of moral badness. The serpent was bad to be subtle,
and if that is so, then, the rest of the animals must have been
a bit bad too, but just not quite so bad as the serpent. Now, I
believe that this is somewhat contrary to the picture that we
are usually given of the good old animals in “pre-fall” Eden.
We are usually given a picture of complete peace and goodness
among the entire animal population.[60] Of course, we should not
forget where that idealistic picture comes from. It is
necessitated by the presupposition that none of us existed
before the earthly creation. Therefore, the garden had to be
faultless in all respects or else the works of GOD would not
match up with the character They have revealed to us. Therefore,
we just change or ignore a few Scriptures like this one, rather
than changing our presuppositions. Iow, the good animals are
pure eisegesis!
Well, now we have another Scripture that says that something was
bad in the garden before Adam and Eve ate the fruit. First, it
was bad that Adam was alone. Second, it was bad that they were
naked but not ashamed. Third, now we have a lot of bad animals
too. And who are we to blame for all this badness? Well, if we
blame Adam and Eve, that is, if GOD created it bad in response
to their previous sin, then we must also admit that we all
existed before our conception and that we are given life to be
saved by learning to be faithful unto the degree of obedience
that is holy.
Genesis 3:5 For GOD doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods (elohim,
NIV:
GOD) knowing good and evil.[61] Many of the traditional
interpretations of this verse have Eve wanting to be like GOD,
ie, coveting the glory of GOD for herself to the extent of being
willing to make a grab for it, while trusting primarily on the
witness of the serpent to the effect that she would not receive
or could thwart GOD's judgement of death; and secondly, trusting
her own rationality, which also helped to convince her that the
serpent's way was indeed better and attainable. This
interpretation also forces us to believe that she was an
horrible liar in that she attempted to blame her fall, not on
her wilful sin (covetousness) but on the fact that she was
beguiled, that is, misled by a seducing evil spirit.
According to pre-conception theology, she fell because she
listened to the lie of the serpent, which lie she was prone to
believing because she thought him to be a minister of GOD's
grace (ie, she was spiritually blind, unable to always
distinguish between good and evil preachers) and because she
greatly desired to become like the ELOHIM. Her desire was the
same as every believer (who would like to get into Paradise),
commendable and quite normal.
All denunciations of Eve are about her wanting to be like God,
yet WE ARE TO BECOME LIKE JESUS and emulate the Christ to
fulfill His plan for us as I John 1, Colossians 3:8-17, and 1
Peter 1:15-16, "But as he which hath called you is holy so be ye
holy in all manner of conversation; because it is written, 'be
ye holy; for I am holy'." suggests.[62] Her sin was in seeking
to obtain this worthy goal through the “faithful"***[63]*** way
that the serpent suggested to her. She obviously believed that
he was trying to help her achieve this goal, but alas, to her
shame, he had another goal in mind, and was lying to her.
[ASIDE:
Gen 3:5: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then
your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good
and evil. [B]No one has ever rationally explained to me how
knowing the difference between good and evil is bad. [/B]In
fact, such knowledge is the base of all religious maturity and
perfection: Hebrews 5:14 But solid food is for the mature, who
by constant use have trained themselves to distinguish good from
evil., 1Kings 3:9 So give your servant a discerning heart to
govern your people and to distinguish between right and wrong.
and Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil,
who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put
bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. ]
Thus we can see that Eve's error was directly attributable to
her spiritual blindness, that is, to the fact that she listened
to him as if he were her friend and divine messenger, rather
than looking on him as being one of her worst enemies.
Now, if GOD created her spiritually blind, that is, in such a
way that she would be very prone to looking on the serpent as
her friend, and HE refused or neglected to warn her of satan'sss
nature, that is, of the incredible danger she would be in if she
listened to him, how can we say that GOD loved her or did
everything without fault? One would think that if HE had any
love in HIM, HE would have warned her about him, HE doing
everything perfectly and she being so "blind, naive,[64]
innocent and undefiled", right? Of course, if she was already
defiled and blinded by her unwillingness to believe GOD's word
about HIS enemies and by her friendliness towards them, then GOD
just might have put her in HIS earthly garden and allowed the
serpent to beguile her into eating her way out of it, without
warning her of his evil intentions,[color=blue][65] so that she
would learn of his true character through this nasty experience
(since she was unwilling to believe HIM about HIS enemies) so
that, the next time HE called for a judgement against all of HIS
enemies, she for one, would be willing to believe HIM that such
a judgement was absolutely necessary for a peaceful life in Eden
(having found that out by her experience) and not be beguiled
out of that judgement (peaceful life) again. [/color](And what's
your favourite interpretation again?)
Perhaps if you are having a hard time deciding between the two
interpretations, you could consider this question: how did Eve
view life in Eden? To ask it another way, did Eve believe that
Edenic life was her everlasting Paradise, or did she look on it
as spiritual school time (because she was good but immature) or
did she look on it as a spiritual hospital or correctional
school (because of her fault)?
Well, it is obvious, from the serpent'sss appeal to her, that
she considered herself to be spiritually blind and wanted the
serpent's help to get to see (that is, to be like Elohim, no
longer unable to discern between the good and the evil). Thus,
it should be apparent that she knew the difference between being
blind and being able to see, that is, she knew that some PERsons
could discern between the good and the evil, and she knew that
she could not.
Now, just how do you think she came to know that she could not
see? Well, she might have been able to see before, that is, at
one time was able to distinguish between the good and the evil,
but subsequent to that time, became confused, that is, changed
her mind somewhat; or, if she had been created blind, GOD might
have told her about seeing.[66] In other words, GOD might have
told her all about the good spirits and the evil spirits, ie,
what the evil spirits were like, who they were, and her
necessity to stay away from them.
In other words, she would already have had her eyes opened by
GOD (if she believed and understood what HE was telling her).
But if her eyes were opened, that is, if she believed and
understood GOD about seeing, she would not have been blind, that
is, still open to the serpent's temptation, that is, still
accepting him as a good person with an helpful message about
God.
Well then, since this way of learning about her blindness
dissipates her blindness (that is, makes her unwilling to listen
to temptations about having her blindness cured) and since her
behaviour shows that she was still blind, she could not have
learned about being blind and seeing in this way. In other
words, either GOD did not tell her about seeing, or if HE did,
she did not believe HIM, which makes her a rebellious believer,
which blatantly contradicts the fact that she wanted to get
cured.
But since she wanted to be cured, then GOD could not have told
her, and if GOD did not tell her, this only leaves us with the
other way, to wit: she knew she was blind because she had
previously been able to see,[67] and this being the case, she
had to look on life on earth as being a spiritual hospital or
correctional centre for her faulty vision[68] (and whatever
caused it). In other words, the fact that she was spiritually
blind means that she previously had been unfaithful (the only
way one becomes blinded) and the dearth of blatant witness to
any prior unfaithfulness in Eden can only mean that her
faithlessness had taken place before she was given life on
earth, and that life (and the commandment) was created to be the
means of bringing her to repentance and faithfulness (sight)
again. So then, according to the Bible, Eve looked at life on
earth the same as a pre-conceptionist does.[69]
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD GOD said unto the serpent, Because
thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above
every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust
shalt thou eat all the days of thy life... Some of the accepted
interpretations of this verse really send me into stitches -
painful ones. Of course, not possessing the accurate
interpretation on account of the prevalence of false theological
presuppositions, and assuming that any “legless”[70]
interpretation is better than admitting that we just do not know
what all the wise GOD is talking about, it becomes very easy to
slip into interpretations that future children will really
wonder about.
So then, how else can we interpret this verse? As it plainly
reads, the cattle were cursed already and so were the beasts of
the field, this creation was not so “very good” at all by this
time. Is it too absurd to surmise that it was “originally”
created (or recreated[71]) in a fallen, cursed condition, very
good for a chastitory, converting and sanctifying purpose? No
it’s not.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed. From this prophecy we can see
that GOD's purpose in life from the time of this statement (and
quite possibly before that time, since HE planned it well before
that time) has been to put enmity[72] between the non-elect (thy
seed) and the elect (her seed).[73] I do not know of any
prevailing theology that teaches us about this as being the
foremost aspect of GOD's purpose in life, except for
pre-conception existence.[74]
The second thing worthy of note is that the putting of enmity
presupposes that enmity is as yet non-existent, and presumes
her friendship with the world of the non-elect tares. In other
words, it presupposes their knowing the good and the evil.[75] I
believe that this interpretation is backed up by Malachi 3:18,
which prophesies, I believe, of the fulfilment of this verse.
Malachi 3:18 And you will again see the distinction[76] between
the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve GOD and
those who do not. (NIV)
For those who now know how to correctly interpret the prophets,
a check on the context will confirm that in this verse Malachi
is addressing the elect in the latter days. And isn't it
interesting that Malachi views their blindness as something they
picked up along the way, rather than being the way they were
created, that is, at one time all of the now[77] blind people
could see the difference between the good and the evil, to which
sight they will finally be restored?
Conclusion for Eve's Blindness:
To my mind, this constitutes very good proof of an exceptionally
strong spiritual foundation for pre-conception theology in
Genesis.[78] Therefore, I say that pre-conception existence
theology is the most attested to by the Scriptures. Perhaps you
are thinking that I am not justified in making that statement
based on only a few exceptional hard to understand Scriptures
that did not fit in anywhere else. Well, if you do not yet
consider me justified in making that statement, then why not
continue on?
Maybe you might agree with me after you finish my first mundane,
boring category. It is my hope that you will find out, as it has
been stated by others so many times, that the message of the
Scriptures is (fairly) consistent throughout. One more thing, as
it also has been stated on so many occasions down through the
ages: welcome to revealed religion, or as the Lord so aptly
stated it in Hebrews 12:26 Yet once more I shake[79] not the
earth only, but also heaven. In other words, what do you think
is going to happen if I’m even just half as right as I say I am?
---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for: Eve's Blindness
58 - From just reading it, don’t you get the impression that the
serpent was not one of the beasts that the LORD GOD had made
then?
59 - Strong’s(#14) 6191 - aw-ram'; a primary root; properly to
be (or make) bare; but used only in the derivative sense
(through the idea perhaps of smoothness) to be cunning (usually
in a bad sense): translated as: very, beware, take crafty
(counsel), be prudent, deal subtilly. This is ALSO the root the
word “naked” in 2:25 comes from. (Genesis 2:25 And they both
were naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.) In
other words, Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than
any beast of the field which the LORD GOD had made. could just
as well be translated the serpent was more naked than any beast!
and in Gen 2:25, A&E could just as well be cunning in evil but
not ashamed! Of course, since that would be giving away the
whole show, it probably has been acceptable (as per Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance GOD winked at; but now
commandeth all men everywhere to repent.) to have the subtle
interpretation.
60 - Remember all those pictures of Adam and Eve, with all the
nice, sugary, totally unrealistic animals, usually standing in
front of them, covering them up. Radical theology to say the
least! Quite a cover-up!
61 - That is, to not be idolatrous, ie, to learn that GOD's
ideas (ways) are always the best, the most beneficial to us,
definitely better than anyone else's.
62 - Especially so if she had just recently been put out of
Paradise for not being able to distinguish between the good and
the evil.
63 - “Didn't GOD predestine you to eternal life? If so, then how
can you die? Is the GOD who wants you to live forever going to
kill you? Is something going to kill you when GOD wants you to
live forever? When are you going to start believing in the all
powerful GOD who loves you infinitely? When are you going to
believe that there is nothing more powerful than the tree of
life? HE is testing your faithfulness to HIS election promise
that you will not die!”
64 - Her blindness can not mean naivete because naivete is ended
by GOD's self-attesting witness, which they had already received
because they already accepted HIM as their GOD.
65 - Doesn't it remind you of 1 Corinthians 5:5 Deliver such an
one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit
might be saved.?
66 - GOD's enemies would not have told her about seeing, for to
do so, they would have had to tell her the truth about
themselves. In other words, being spiritually blind means
looking on some of the evil as being good, and looking on some
of the truth about evil as being a lie.
67 - This way she would know the difference but still be blind,
that is, still seeking to be cured, that is, still open to the
serpent's temptation, that is, still unwilling to stay separate
from those things GOD had told her to stay separate from. Do you
still have any doubts as to which one of these matches the
biblical account of what happened in Eden?
68 - Ie, discernment, that is, disbelief in GOD's word.
69 - Understanding does not come easy but it does come if you do
the work. So read it slowly and think about what it's saying.
And you have to do it if you're going to be on the side that
understands. Don't worry. Everything usually falls into place by
the third time through.
70 - That is, without understanding!! (Some Christians believe
that the serpent had legs before this.)
71 - Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void. The
word “was” may also be translated “became”. “Without form and
void” (Hebrew - tohu wabohu) describes the result of a divine
judgement in the other two places where the phrase is used in
the Bible (Isaiah 34:11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall
possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he
shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones
of emptiness., and Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and lo, it
was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no
light.
72 - That is, to make us faithful unto holiness, for holiness is
the only source of such enmity.
73 - Many interpret this as referring to Jesus. I do not think
that can be correct, for is it not quite unreasonable to include
Him in the group that needs to be separated in spirit from
satan's seed, that is, that needs to become holy?
74 - Just like before Jesus came there was no one teaching about
the deity of the Lamb.
75 - That is, unholiness, that is, spiritual blindness.
76 - To see the distinction is to lay upon oneself the necessity
of making the distinction, that is, the necessity of becoming
holy. Please note that in Malachi 3:18, the righteous are
defined as those who serve GOD, not those who believe in HIM.
Obviously those who serve HIM will believe in HIM, but there are
an awful lot who believe in HIM who do not serve HIM. I would
say that if you plan on being one of HIS jewels, you had better
take note of the difference.
77 - That is, the latter day elect. Just when did you first see
the difference in a way that could fulfil this prophecy? Well,
you won't wonder when you are finished with this book. (You must
take note that you did not see “in Adam” because Adam and Eve
were blind.) Welcome to a bigger universe.
78 - Of course, I've studied it enough that I can really
understand everything you've just gone over. If you want to
understand it, you'll have to read it again. It doesn’t take
long. It goes a lot faster the second time.
79 - Primary waves do not shake you up too bad, but just wait
till the love waves get here. (Look them up under
“earthquakes”.)
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Around 2/3 of your post is non-biblical at
least to the KJV..
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 8523--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest58 Date: October 29, 2019, 1:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]Around 2/3 of your post is non-biblical at least to the
KJV.. Blade
[/quote]
I do not accept that your interpretation of the bible, nor the
kjv interpretation, is the only true interpretation...
I will go thru my thesis verse by verse with anyone
interested...
#Post#: 8544--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest8 Date: October 31, 2019, 6:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=642.msg8523#msg8523
date=1572373153]
[quote]Around 2/3 of your post is non-biblical at least to the
KJV.. Blade
[/quote]
I do not accept that your interpretation of the bible, nor the
kjv interpretation, is the only true interpretation...
I will go thru my thesis verse by verse with anyone
interested...
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
Fine, rem what Jesus said about teaching another gospel.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 8570--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest58 Date: November 1, 2019, 2:10 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=642.msg8544#msg8544
date=1572566244]
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=642.msg8523#msg8523
date=1572373153]
I do not accept that your interpretation of the bible, nor the
kjv interpretation, is the only true interpretation...
I will go thru my thesis verse by verse with anyone
interested...
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
Fine, rem what Jesus said about teaching another gospel.
Blade[/shadow][/quote]
IF you are referring to what PAUL wrote,2 Corinthians 11:3 I am
afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s
cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure
devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus
other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different
spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the
one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily. Fine...
the gospel of salvation is quite fine with me, alive and well.
My dispute is with those who contend that GOD creates evil
people some of whom are HIS intended Bride, by HIS surrogate
Adam.
Do you have any verse at all that makes our beliefs about the
time and situation of our fall to be imperative to our
salvation? Or is a random warning about "teaching another
gospel" the best you can do when your argument against PCE
fails?
Gospel. ... The word gospel comes from the Old English "god"
meaning "good" and "spel" meaning "news, a story." In
Christianity, the term "good news" refers to the story of Jesus
Christ's birth, death, and resurrection.
#Post#: 8584--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest8 Date: November 2, 2019, 8:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=642.msg8570#msg8570
date=1572635425]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=642.msg8544#msg8544
date=1572566244]
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=642.msg8523#msg8523
date=1572373153]
I do not accept that your interpretation of the bible, nor the
kjv interpretation, is the only true interpretation...
I will go thru my thesis verse by verse with anyone
interested...
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
Fine, rem what Jesus said about teaching another gospel.
Blade[/shadow][/quote]
IF you are referring to what PAUL wrote,2 Corinthians 11:3 I am
afraid, however, that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s
cunning, your minds may be led astray from your simple and pure
devotion to Christ. 4 For if someone comes and proclaims a Jesus
other than the One we proclaimed, or if you receive a different
spirit than the One you received, or a different gospel than the
one you accepted, you put up with it way too easily. Fine...
the gospel of salvation is quite fine with me, alive and well.
My dispute is with those who contend that GOD creates evil
people some of whom are HIS intended Bride, by HIS surrogate
Adam.
Gospel. ... The word gospel comes from the Old English "god"
meaning "good" and "spel" meaning "news, a story." In
Christianity, the term "good news" refers to the story of Jesus
Christ's birth, death, and resurrection.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]You quoted 1 Cor 11:3 from some other kind of
text, but here is the difference...
1 Cor 11:3..(KJV).."But I fear, lest by any means, as the
serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should
be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
You see that the words you stated have a different meaning that
the actual Word of GOD (KJV)
But as someone reminded me the other day, that we will know soon
enough... as the end of days come beating at our doors.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 8601--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest58 Date: November 3, 2019, 1:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=642.msg8584#msg8584
date=1572744016]
You quoted 1 Cor 11:3 from some other kind of text, but here is
the difference...
1 Cor 11:3..(KJV).."But I fear, lest by any means, as the
serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should
be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
You see that the words you stated have a different meaning that
the actual Word of GOD (KJV)
Blade [/quote]
1. the actual Word of GOD is the (KJV)? ??? but where is it
written that your interpretation of the KJV is the word of GOD?
2.You misquote me and the bible by saying that I referred to 1
Cor 11:3 when the text in question is 2 Cor 11:3, a little thing
but trust is built on little things.
3. The addition of the words and purity of the NU Texts is also
a little thing that does not change the meaning of the verse one
iota.
#Post#: 8602--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest8 Date: November 3, 2019, 5:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=642.msg8601#msg8601
date=1572809570]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=642.msg8584#msg8584
date=1572744016]
You quoted 1 Cor 11:3 from some other kind of text, but here is
the difference...
1 Cor 11:3..(KJV).."But I fear, lest by any means, as the
serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should
be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."
You see that the words you stated have a different meaning that
the actual Word of GOD (KJV)
Blade [/quote]
1. the actual Word of GOD is the (KJV)? ??? but where is it
written that your interpretation of the KJV is the word of GOD?
2.You misquote me and the bible by saying that I referred to 1
Cor 11:3 when the text in question is 2 Cor 11:3, a little thing
but trust is built on little things.
3. The addition of the words and purity of the NU Texts is also
a little thing that does not change the meaning of the verse one
iota.
[/quote]
Well is not your book that you get 2 Cor 11:3 from, different
from the KJV....WHen I quoted GOD's WORD, it was His words not
mine....Your version puts a different spin on the original words
of GOD...
Blade
#Post#: 8604--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest58 Date: November 3, 2019, 8:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=642.msg8602#msg8602
date=1572823985]
Well is not your book that you get 2 Cor 11:3 from, different
from the KJV....WHen I quoted GOD's WORD, it was His words not
mine....Your version puts a different spin on the original words
of GOD...Blade[/quote]
I'm sorry I do see the "different spin" - please explain to me
your thinking, eh?
#Post#: 8607--------------------------------------------------
Re: Eve's Blindness
By: guest8 Date: November 4, 2019, 8:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=642.msg8604#msg8604
date=1572833513]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=642.msg8602#msg8602
date=1572823985]
Well is not your book that you get 2 Cor 11:3 from, different
from the KJV....WHen I quoted GOD's WORD, it was His words not
mine....Your version puts a different spin on the original words
of GOD...Blade[/quote]
I'm sorry I do see the "different spin" - please explain to me
your thinking, eh?
[/quote]
Goodevening TED....
You wrote :"IF you are referring to what PAUL wrote,2
Corinthians 11:3 I am afraid, however, that just as Eve was
deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may be led astray
from your simple and pure devotion to Christ.
The KJV... 2 Cor 11:3 ...."But I fear, lest by any means, as the
serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should
be corrupted from the simplicity(perceived weakness)
[/color]that is in Christ."
I will pull them out for clarity'\
Yours [ b] your minds may be led astray(corrupted) from your
simple and pure devotion to Christ[/b].
KJV ...so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity
that is in Christ."
Again lets split it down.
Yours: [b]your simple and pure devotion[/b] to Christ
KJV:..from the simplicity (preceived weakness) that is in Christ
The simplicity of Christ does not mean someones "simple and pour
devotion". [b]The simplicity of Christ is telling us about a
Perceived Weakness in Christ
This is in reference about the snake in the garden with Eve and
the corruption she went through...[/b]
I might add, for those that have a simple and [b]pure devotion
to Christ, corruption is very unlikely... [/b]
As you can see there is a difference....Thank you for asking!
I might add I have added (emphasis) within the scriptures above
for clarity only!
Blade
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