DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
<
form action=&amp
;amp;amp;quot;https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; method=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;p
ost&
quot; target=&am
p;amp;amp;quot;_top&
amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;input type=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hidden&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; name=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;cmd&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; value=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot
;_s-xclick&a
mp;amp;quot;&amp
;amp;amp;gt; &am
p;amp;amp;lt;input type=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hidden&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; name=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hosted_button_id&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; val
ue=&
quot;DKL7ADEKRVUBL&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;input type=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;image&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; src=&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;https://www.payp
alobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; border=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;0&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; nam
e=&q
uot;submit&a
mp;amp;quot; alt=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;quot;PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!
&quo
t;&g
t; &
lt;img alt=&
amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;quot; border=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;0&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; src=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;https://www.paypalobjects.com
/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; width=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;1&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; height=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;1&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/form&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;
HTML https://3169.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Biblical Pre-Conception Existence Theology (PCE)
*****************************************************
#Post#: 7851--------------------------------------------------
Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest58 Date: September 7, 2019, 3:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
MISFITS, the first.[1]( blue indicates footnote)
Well, just about last, and quite possibly least, there are a few
verses that just do not seem to fit very well into any category,
exceptional or otherwise! (Imagine, they are just like the
elect! There always seems to be a few on the perimeter, although
these days there seems to be quite a few. But hooray for
Christian pre-conception existence theology; it even has a place
for the misfits, howbeit, on the Earth, somewhat near the end!)
Genesis 3:21 For Adam also and for his wife did the LORD GOD
make coats of skin, and clothed them. In this type[2] there are
four things.
First is the fig leaves of Genesis 3:7b… and they sewed fig
leaves together…
Second is the aprons of 3:7c -… and made themselves aprons.
Third is the shed blood (which is not mentioned, but you do not
obtain animal skins without shedding some blood).
Fourth is the skin coats of 3:21.
Thus we have four separate things being combined in two ways, to
wit: the fig leaf - aprons, and the blood - skin coats. To
understand the spiritual truth conveyed in this type, we must
first understand what the two dualities or combinations
represent. Therefore, let's take a look to see what these things
represent in the spiritual realms.
The first combination is the fig leaf - aprons. May I suggest
that these represent Adam and Eve's attempt to be reconciled
with GOD, ie, their attempt to escape the penalty for being
naked and disobedient (disfellowship and impending death), that
is, their attempt to be where they were before they were (bad)
naked and disobedient, ie, to have true peace with GOD again.
In other words, the fig leaf - aprons would represent the way
for them to become righteous again (so far as being naked and
this command are concerned), and holy (no longer willing to
accept the serpent as a good person) if they would have worked.
However because they did not work, they must represent all false
or counterfeit ways of becoming righteous and holy.[3] In other
words, they symbolise a counterfeit Christianity.[4] Second
comes the blood and coats of skin. May I suggest that these
represent GOD's provision for their reconciliation with HIM
(which we will look into a little deeper in a moment).
The next thing I'd like to examine is the reason(s) why the fig
leaf - aprons did not work. Why was GOD not satisfied with this
covering of their nakedness? Why were they still the same as
being naked in HIS sight? Well I believe that they did not work
because they failed to stop that which was out to kill them
(which Adam and Eve had set in motion by eating the fruit). Now
they were not going to die because the fruit was poisonous. The
fruit itself was good on three counts. The reason they were
going to die was because of the poisonousness of the act of
eating, that is, the poisonousness of the act of disobeying
GOD.[5]
Hence, we can see that what they had done wrong is that they had
set aside GOD's purpose for them and were doing something else
instead. (All by mistake, of course!) Now this is a very grave
situation indeed, even worse than eating poison.[6] Hence, we
can see that what was out to get them was GOD's justice and
holiness, that is, the retributive and exilic demands of these
two attributes. Hence we can see that the fig leaf - aprons did
not work:
first, because nothing had borne the wrath of GOD [ripping
leaves off fig trees does not satisfy GOD's wrath (justice) nor
does self-imposed suffering[7], that is, the religion of man -
Adam.]
Second, they did not work because Adam and Eve were still not
willing to fulfil GOD's purpose for them, that is, GOD's purpose
for them was not that they should be “dressed in fig leaves". He
wanted them to be clothed with something else.[8] Thus the fig
leaf - aprons failed to satisfy both HIS justice and HIS
holiness.
The third thing we need to examine is the two aspects of the
blood - coats that worked.
The first aspect is that GOD judged (killed) some animal(s) on
their behalf, that is, instead of them. Thus HIS justice “was
satisfied” because something else had borne the retribution for
them. The second aspect is that GOD clothed them with the skins
of the slain animal(s). This covering fitted HIS purpose for
them.[9] It was the kind of clothes HE wanted them to wear.
I hope that you can see that this little episode constitutes a
good example on how to get back together with GOD to the extent
of “getting back into HIS garden in peace”. The shed blood
typifies the sacrifice of Jesus that can satisfy GOD's justice
and justify us. (The holy elect are now and forever righteous by
this free gift from GOD.) The putting on and wearing of the
coats which satisfied GOD's holiness, typifies the putting on
(permanently) of the new person created in righteousness and
holiness (justified by Jesus' sacrifice and permanently
separated in spirit from GOD's enemies, that is, willing to
judge them, that is, faithful in GOD's sight as per Ephesians
4:24, 5:27[10]).
Now, it is of the utmost importance to make the distinction
between the blood and the coats, that is, you must realise that
HE did not cover their nakedness by the shed blood of the
animal(s), that is, through the shedding of the blood that can
justify. Rather, it was the putting on and wearing of the skin
coats that covered their nakedness, that is, that brought them
back into a peaceful relationship with GOD. In other words, they
were not forgiven until they had put on the coats.
Therefore, we should be able to see that although the shedding
of the blood was involved with and a necessary prerequisite to
their being covered,[11] the foremost or most vital aspect was
the putting on of the coats. For example, 3:21 says absolutely
nothing about the sacrificial death(s). In other words, even
though the blood has been shed, the Church still can not get
back into the garden (past the judgement) until it has put on
the coats, that is, until we all put on the person created in
holiness, that is, until we all become holy, which is much
different than believing in the blood (realising that Jesus died
for our sin).[12]
Now this would all be quite easy to understand except for the
fact that there are these other interpretations that say that
all you need to be saved, reborn, forgiven, redeemed, adopted,
whisked away to Paradise when you die, granted eternal life,
made righteous, made holy, made perfect, resurrected, etc, is to
be covered by a belief in the shed blood. In other words, you do
not have to be holy to have any of these things. Holiness is
just an added extra, it does not matter when you pick it up.
Take your time. (Fig leaves are still in fashion!!!!)
Well in spite of the ever increasing mound of Biblical
Scholarship, it is not too hard to understand if one keeps in
mind that there are two different aspects to having peace with
GOD, to wit: the blood and the coats, that is, not just the fact
of the shed blood and the acceptance or belief in that fact, but
two different facts.
The blood is a free gift to the holy elect (that is, to those
whose faith is unto holiness). GOD does all this work. There is
nothing you can do to merit being justified, that is, to merit
escaping GOD's wrath, the penalty due for your sin. It is done,
complete, finished. You are righteous[13]: just as righteous as
GOD, just as righteous as if you had never sinned, and just as
righteous as you will ever be. GOD's justice has absolutely no
claim in your regard.
Now, the situation is not the same for the coats. Christ's
sacrifice does not make you holy, that is, willing to judge HIS
enemies. No indeed! That is something you have to do. It is a
work,[14] a very hard work, a work you are not willing to do for
if you were, you would not be here![15] Furthermore, without
this work, your faith (justification) means nothing,[16] that
is, you are still kept out of Eden, you still do not have true
peace with GOD,[17] you are still not forgiven, redeemed,
reborn, adopted, for if HE held HIS judgement, you too would be
judged on account of your abiding unity with HIS enemies.
But, on account of GOD's election of some, HE will never hold
HIS judgement until all the elect become holy.[18] To say it
another way, if you are not holy at the time of HIS judgement,
it will not matter how much faith you have, you will not be
forgiven, you will be condemned (Matthew 7:21, 22:11).[19] In
other words, without holiness we are in the position Adam and
Eve were in just after GOD had killed the animal(s), but before
they had put on the skin coats, that is, standing there with
their fig leaves on, believing in the blood, thankful as can
be,[20] but naked as new born babes in GOD's sight.
To put in NT terms, we are in the same position as the
Laodiceans of Revelation 3:17 Knowest not that thou are
wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked? Here
Jesus again uses the examples of nakedness and blindness to show
the Church its needs,[21] but He is doing this after His
sacrifice had been made and they had been converted.[22]
This means that the “needed” things or emphasis was entirely
upon their need for holiness in order that they could be right
with Him, for they no longer needed that GOD should make a
sacrifice to justify them. What they needed was to put on the
coats, the new man in Christ, in order that they could truly
have peace with Him. As Jesus said in Revelation 3:17-20 I
counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, (unadulterated
or holy faith), that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment,
that thou mayest be clothed (symbolic of purification unto
holiness) and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear (to
all the covered, you are stopping My judgement); and anoint
thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see (that MY enemies
are irrevocable in their choice to be evil, you must become
holy). As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous,
therefore, and repent (of your unholiness). Behold, I stand at
(outside) the door (of the heart of this kind of Christian); and
knock (seek acceptance of My holy word). If any man hear My
voice, and open the door (come into unity with My holiness); I
will come into him, and will sup with him (commune intimately,
you will no longer be alone), and he with Me.
So then, when it comes to being saved from GOD's wrath and
having peace with HIM, there is nothing you can do and there is
something you must do.[23] There is nothing you can do because
your saving sacrifice must be wrought by GOD. There is something
you must do because you must put on the coat (white raiment),
that is, become holy, that is, become willing to judge HIS
enemies, that is, open the door to HIM and let HIM in, that is,
be adopted, that is, repent, at least of your unholiness. In
other words, the mere belief in HIS saving sacrifice gets you no
closer to GOD's kingdom than you are right now. Until you repent
and open up (believe) to the extent of being holy, you are just
putting in correctional time, either down here or in the worlds
of the dead. We were “put out” for not being holy and we will
not get back in until we are holy, even though the blood has
been shed.
In other words, without holiness we just stay in the exilic
state we have been in for the last ~6000 years, and Jesus will
not clean up this place (hold His judgement), until it fulfils
the purpose HE created it to do, that is, to bring everyone of
the elect unto repentance and faith unto holiness, and when it
does, then we will get to live in the Promised Land in
peace.[24]
Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech THEE, that THOU hast made me as the
clay; and wilt THOU bring me into dust again? Me in this
Scripture refers primarily to Job's spirit, rather than to his
body. This is shown by verses 11 and 12: THOU hast clothed me
with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
THOU hast granted me life and favour, ... Therefore, we can read
the second part of verse 9 as saying, Wilt THOU bring my spirit
into dust again?
Now, what does it mean by the word “dust”? Well, dust was the
state of Adam's body before it was created, as in Genesis
3:19...till thou return unto the ground: for out of it wast thou
taken, for dust thou art and unto dust thou shalt return.[25] In
this verse, we can see that the second “dust” means the state of
the body before it was created or given life. Therefore when Job
speaks of his spirit being brought to dust, I think it means
that state which the spirit was in before it was given life.
(This interpretation is also attested to by Ecclesiastes 12:7,
and Genesis 4:10, wherein Abel's voice spoke in death, from the
“ground”.) The fact that Job describes this “dust” state as an
“again” further connotes the pre-conception existence of the
spirit. This interpretation also opens up new possibilities for
10:13a And these things hast THOU hid in THINE heart: Might
Job's author be indicating that he knew that these things (our
pre-conception existence and incarnation) had to remain hidden
from general knowledge? Looks like it to me.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the
earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Well now, this is a
pretty straight forward question, and it seems that, in GOD's
view, if Job understands what it is all about, Job must also
know of his whereabouts at the time when GOD laid the
foundations of the Earth. This implies that Job was somewhere
when GOD created the Earth, right? Of course, it can't mean that
because we all know (have understanding) that we did not exist
then, so it has got to mean something else, anything else.
Of course, if it means something else, then this becomes a
pretty stupid question. Like, why don't you go around for a day
and ask all your friends at work where they were when they
didn't exist yet? Just how many of them would walk away
convicted of their inferiority to you regarding the right way to
go about living life (which is what GOD was trying to show Job
by asking him this question)? Well, no doubt some of you fancy
dancers[26] will still want to cling to the security of the
traditional interpretation. Okay but, that is the most insecure
way to go. That's not the rock that will withstand the next
flood. Trouble is, you'll probably never believe me until it's
proven to you, right? So, read on! We’re not finished yet.
The Wisdom of Solomon 8:20(NEB) As a child, I was born to
excellence and a noble soul fell to my lot; or rather, I myself
was noble, and I entered into an unblemished body ......
(JB) I was a boy of happy disposition. I had received a good
soul as my lot, or that, being good, I had entered an undefiled
body. Whoever this author was, he certainly was rather pro
pre-conception existence.
The words, “as my lot” are very interesting too. It seems that
he viewed the blessings of his incarnation as a reward from
GOD.[27] This then has a bearing on the doctrine of rewards, for
it is an obvious question that if our entire life is in GOD's
hands and if every bit of goodness that comes forth in our life
has its source in GOD's prevenient[28] grace, just how can we be
rewarded for that which we have received from GOD?[29] Should it
not be GOD who gets the rewards? Only if we throw pre-conception
works on to the scale, as Solomon seems to in this verse, do we
then come up with a reasonable basis for the doctrine of
rewards, that is, for the fact that some receive much more grace
in their life than others. In other words, this life and all the
grace that is encapsulated in it, is somewhat linked to our
pre-conception works.
The Wisdom of Solomon 10:1(JB)...the father of the world, the
first being to be fashioned, created alone. Since we can tell
that this author believed in pre-conception theology from Wisdom
8:20(see the preceding argument) should we not interpret his
choice of words in this verse in light of that presupposition
(presupposing that he is translated correctly, which is not
always a good presupposition to make). If we take the author's
pre-existence views into account, then we have a pre-existent
spiritual being (a personal being, hence, a person) who was
later fashioned into a living being (oft times called a human
being). In addition to this witness to this being's
pre-fashioning existence, the verse also infers that this being
was but the first in a long line of persons that were so
fashioned. It also seems that Solomon (or whoever) had twigged
on the spiritual meaning of alone. Of course, the wisest guy
should know some theological secrets that hardly anyone else
knows, should he not?
[font=times new roman] [/font]
---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for Misfits, the first
1 - Otherwise known as the uncategory.
2 - This is a very important type (example) and I am afraid that
very many people have not fully understood it. Therefore,
because it is so important and so misunderstood, I would like to
add my say to the already large pile of Biblical Scholarship. In
other words, since our theologians have erred in their diagnosis
of the cause of our problems with GOD, perhaps we should take
another look at the solution GOD gave us in Genesis, because
they probably made some mistakes there too, being that these
things are so intimately related. In other words, this is not a
verse that gives direct proof that we existed before our
conception but rather, it shows that the Scriptures say that the
most important aspect of having “peace with GOD again in Eden”
is our becoming holy, which fact exactly matches pre-conception
existence theology.
3 - Ie, of getting back to Eden.
4 - Otherwise known as unsaving faith. Checked lately to see
what material your raiment (wedding garment) is made of? Or
didn't you know that fig leaves are now being marketed under the
brand name “Whiter than white linen"? Checked to see if it is
clean and well pressed, as per Ephesians 5:27?
5 - Hence, the poisonousness of being unholy, since that is why
they disobeyed.Back:
6 - If you do not recognise the gravity of the situation, please
refer back to the WAGES OF SIN, about page 16 in THY WILL BE
DONE.
7 - See Genesis note 33 on fig leaves.
8 - Most likely in the willingness to judge and be separate from
HIS enemies, that is, in
faith unto holiness at least. It is not explicit in the
Scriptures, but from the general drift of Genesis 3:7-14, it
seems that they were very close to the serpent when GOD found
them. Was it just ironic coincidence, or could it be that they
went to the serpent for help to hide? Perhaps they were just
mysteriously drawn to his presence?
9 - Most likely because it symbolised believing in GOD to the
degree of being willing to not ever eat of the forbidden fruit
anymore, that is, of not ever listening to the serpent anymore,
that is, it symbolised their being holy.
10 - Ephesians 4:24 and 5:27 And that ye put on the new man,
which after GOD is created in righteousness and true holiness. /
That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not
having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should
be holy and without blemish (in this regard at least).
11 - That is, being forgiven, made righteous, made holy, at
peace with GOD.
12 - As Jesus warned (the latter day Church) in Luke 17:21
Remember Lot's wife. She had to look back to her family and
friends. I guess she did not like what she saw, that is, she did
not think that GOD was right to hurt them that much, that is,
she suddenly became unholy! Hence, she was judged with them. And
just how many other Christians are like Mrs. Disobedient Unholy
Lot? Lots right? (Hence, we may get the great falling away of 2
Thessalonians 2:3.)
13 - If you have the holiness coat on.
14 - Much to M. Luther and everyone else's dismay!
15 - There is a possible exception here but it's very expensive.
Maybe I’ll tell you about it next year.
16 - As per James 2:20. And please take note of his example of
saving faith in action in verse 21.
17 - Although you might be convinced, somewhat akin to the
Laodicean delusion of Revelation 3:17, that you do have peace
with GOD. Of the seven Churches, I believe that this is the one
that has the most members.
18 - Which event He may bring to pass in just a few short years,
so don't go too slow on it.
19 - Matthew 7:21, 22:11 Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord,
Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth
the will of My Father… / … and the wedding was furnished with
guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, He saw
there a man who had not on a wedding garment. … and (He said
you) cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and
gnashing of teeth. How are you going to do when he starts
weeping “in repentance”? Are you still going to do the will of
the Father who wants you to throw him out?
20 - And maybe even getting religious about it.
21 - I believe He was alluding to this very situation in Genesis
when they were expelled from the garden when they were no longer
naked. They had their skin coats on! There is a big difference
between conversion and adoption. Sometimes they happen at the
same time, but usually they take place many years apart (just
like there is a big difference between getting out of Egypt and
getting into the Promised Land, or between falling in love and
getting married, ie, being adopted into your partner's family).
23 - Otherwise known as the faith and works dilemma. Saving
faith brings forth certain works, or repentance to a certain
degree, that is, you will stop doing most of your sins, but you
will not stop completely, that is, become perfect. Some of these
sins are listed in the NT, to wit: fornication, stealing, lying,
etc (see 1 Corinthians 5:11, 6:9; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3;
Colossians 3:5 and Revelation 21:8). Well, in addition to all
such evils, I hope that you can now see that you can not have
saving faith and still be unholy, as per James 4:4...know ye not
that the friendship of the world (any member, even if it is your
infant child, Matthew 10:37) is enmity with GOD. In other words,
the angels will get you out of Sodom, but you can not disobey,
that is, look back, even if your family and friends are back
there screaming, wailing, howling, and being roasted alive in
GOD’s judgement.
24 - This very same example is reiterated in both Testaments
too. In the OT, we have blood of the Passover (Paschal) Lamb, as
well as its body, with the bitter herbs and holiness, that is,
the willingness to leave Egypt immediately, and one was not
covered by the blood unless one was willing to fulfil these
other requirements as well. In the NT, we have the broken Loaf
and the Wine, and the blood does not cover one unless one is
also willing to partake of it and of the Loaf. And I believe
that it is correct to say that one must be willing to eat and
drink all of it, that there can not be any of it left over (out)
because that is sin. (It seems to me that if one is going to
believe in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine, one
must also believe the same about the flesh of the paschal lamb
and the sin offering.)
25 - It is also interesting to note that in Genesis 3:19 In the
sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto
the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art,
and unto dust shalt thou return., in the first description of
death in the Bible, the word return plays a prominent part. It
seems that Scripture begins by preferring to view death as a
return, rather than as a new experience.
26 - There was a song in the seventies by Cat Stevens that had a
verse that went like this:
I know a lot of fancy dancers,
people who can glide you on a floor.
They move so smooth, but have no answers when you ask,
why did you come here for?
27 - The lot being the divine way of dividing things up for us.
There is no such thing as “chance” with GOD.
28 - Prevenient: grace which disposes the heart of man to seek
GOD as per John 6:44 No man come to Me, except the Father which
hath sent Me draw him…
29 - If you are one of those who holds that we get rewarded for
our degree of cooperation with the grace of GOD, then you must
also believe that we all get the same amount of grace in this
life and that it's not so effectual in some as it is in others.
To my mind, one problem with this idea is, just how many people
do you know that have seen what Paul and Moses saw, as many
times as they saw it, and how many do you know who have gone up
to heaven? Another problem is that this kind of GOD just seems
to get weaker and weaker as time passes and things become more
and more evil, whereas with different degrees of GOD's grace,
grace seems to increase as times become darker and darker, that
is, as our need becomes greater and greater. (This book being an
excellent example. For some of us who were in on what God was
doing, things have been getting brighter and brighter.) As for
proof that we receive different degrees of grace in this life, I
would submit Luke 12:48 For unto whomsoever much is given, of
him shall be much required.
#Post#: 7913--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest8 Date: September 12, 2019, 10:01 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=613.msg7851#msg7851
date=1567887089]
MISFITS, the first.[1]( blue indicates footnote)
Well, just about last, and quite possibly least, there are a few
verses that just do not seem to fit very well into any category,
exceptional or otherwise! (Imagine, they are just like the
elect! There always seems to be a few on the perimeter, although
these days there seems to be quite a few. But hooray for
Christian pre-conception existence theology; it even has a place
for the misfits, howbeit, on the Earth, somewhat near the end!)
Genesis 3:21 For Adam also and for his wife did the LORD GOD
make coats of skin, and clothed them. In this type[2] there are
four things.
First is the fig leaves of Genesis 3:7b… and they sewed fig
leaves together…
Second is the aprons of 3:7c -… and made themselves aprons.
Third is the shed blood (which is not mentioned, but you do not
obtain animal skins without shedding some blood).
Fourth is the skin coats of 3:21.
Thus we have four separate things being combined in two ways, to
wit: the fig leaf - aprons, and the blood - skin coats. To
understand the spiritual truth conveyed in this type, we must
first understand what the two dualities or combinations
represent. Therefore, let's take a look to see what these things
represent in the spiritual realms.
The first combination is the fig leaf - aprons. May I suggest
that these represent Adam and Eve's attempt to be reconciled
with GOD, ie, their attempt to escape the penalty for being
naked and disobedient (disfellowship and impending death), that
is, their attempt to be where they were before they were (bad)
naked and disobedient, ie, to have true peace with GOD again.
In other words, the fig leaf - aprons would represent the way
for them to become righteous again (so far as being naked and
this command are concerned), and holy (no longer willing to
accept the serpent as a good person) if they would have worked.
However because they did not work, they must represent all false
or counterfeit ways of becoming righteous and holy.[3] In other
words, they symbolise a counterfeit Christianity.[4] Second
comes the blood and coats of skin. May I suggest that these
represent GOD's provision for their reconciliation with HIM
(which we will look into a little deeper in a moment).
The next thing I'd like to examine is the reason(s) why the fig
leaf - aprons did not work. Why was GOD not satisfied with this
covering of their nakedness? Why were they still the same as
being naked in HIS sight? Well I believe that they did not work
because they failed to stop that which was out to kill them
(which Adam and Eve had set in motion by eating the fruit). Now
they were not going to die because the fruit was poisonous. The
fruit itself was good on three counts. The reason they were
going to die was because of the poisonousness of the act of
eating, that is, the poisonousness of the act of disobeying
GOD.[5]
Hence, we can see that what they had done wrong is that they had
set aside GOD's purpose for them and were doing something else
instead. (All by mistake, of course!) Now this is a very grave
situation indeed, even worse than eating poison.[6] Hence, we
can see that what was out to get them was GOD's justice and
holiness, that is, the retributive and exilic demands of these
two attributes. Hence we can see that the fig leaf - aprons did
not work:
first, because nothing had borne the wrath of GOD [ripping
leaves off fig trees does not satisfy GOD's wrath (justice) nor
does self-imposed suffering[7], that is, the religion of man -
Adam.]
Second, they did not work because Adam and Eve were still not
willing to fulfil GOD's purpose for them, that is, GOD's purpose
for them was not that they should be “dressed in fig leaves". He
wanted them to be clothed with something else.[8] Thus the fig
leaf - aprons failed to satisfy both HIS justice and HIS
holiness.
The third thing we need to examine is the two aspects of the
blood - coats that worked.
The first aspect is that GOD judged (killed) some animal(s) on
their behalf, that is, instead of them. Thus HIS justice “was
satisfied” because something else had borne the retribution for
them. The second aspect is that GOD clothed them with the skins
of the slain animal(s). This covering fitted HIS purpose for
them.[9] It was the kind of clothes HE wanted them to wear.
I hope that you can see that this little episode constitutes a
good example on how to get back together with GOD to the extent
of “getting back into HIS garden in peace”. The shed blood
typifies the sacrifice of Jesus that can satisfy GOD's justice
and justify us. (The holy elect are now and forever righteous by
this free gift from GOD.) The putting on and wearing of the
coats which satisfied GOD's holiness, typifies the putting on
(permanently) of the new person created in righteousness and
holiness (justified by Jesus' sacrifice and permanently
separated in spirit from GOD's enemies, that is, willing to
judge them, that is, faithful in GOD's sight as per Ephesians
4:24, 5:27[10]).
Now, it is of the utmost importance to make the distinction
between the blood and the coats, that is, you must realise that
HE did not cover their nakedness by the shed blood of the
animal(s), that is, through the shedding of the blood that can
justify. Rather, it was the putting on and wearing of the skin
coats that covered their nakedness, that is, that brought them
back into a peaceful relationship with GOD. In other words, they
were not forgiven until they had put on the coats.
Therefore, we should be able to see that although the shedding
of the blood was involved with and a necessary prerequisite to
their being covered,[11] the foremost or most vital aspect was
the putting on of the coats. For example, 3:21 says absolutely
nothing about the sacrificial death(s). In other words, even
though the blood has been shed, the Church still can not get
back into the garden (past the judgement) until it has put on
the coats, that is, until we all put on the person created in
holiness, that is, until we all become holy, which is much
different than believing in the blood (realising that Jesus died
for our sin).[12]
Now this would all be quite easy to understand except for the
fact that there are these other interpretations that say that
all you need to be saved, reborn, forgiven, redeemed, adopted,
whisked away to Paradise when you die, granted eternal life,
made righteous, made holy, made perfect, resurrected, etc, is to
be covered by a belief in the shed blood. In other words, you do
not have to be holy to have any of these things. Holiness is
just an added extra, it does not matter when you pick it up.
Take your time. (Fig leaves are still in fashion!!!!)
Well in spite of the ever increasing mound of Biblical
Scholarship, it is not too hard to understand if one keeps in
mind that there are two different aspects to having peace with
GOD, to wit: the blood and the coats, that is, not just the fact
of the shed blood and the acceptance or belief in that fact, but
two different facts.
The blood is a free gift to the holy elect (that is, to those
whose faith is unto holiness). GOD does all this work. There is
nothing you can do to merit being justified, that is, to merit
escaping GOD's wrath, the penalty due for your sin. It is done,
complete, finished. You are righteous[13]: just as righteous as
GOD, just as righteous as if you had never sinned, and just as
righteous as you will ever be. GOD's justice has absolutely no
claim in your regard.
Now, the situation is not the same for the coats. Christ's
sacrifice does not make you holy, that is, willing to judge HIS
enemies. No indeed! That is something you have to do. It is a
work,[14] a very hard work, a work you are not willing to do for
if you were, you would not be here![15] Furthermore, without
this work, your faith (justification) means nothing,[16] that
is, you are still kept out of Eden, you still do not have true
peace with GOD,[17] you are still not forgiven, redeemed,
reborn, adopted, for if HE held HIS judgement, you too would be
judged on account of your abiding unity with HIS enemies.
But, on account of GOD's election of some, HE will never hold
HIS judgement until all the elect become holy.[18] To say it
another way, if you are not holy at the time of HIS judgement,
it will not matter how much faith you have, you will not be
forgiven, you will be condemned (Matthew 7:21, 22:11).[19] In
other words, without holiness we are in the position Adam and
Eve were in just after GOD had killed the animal(s), but before
they had put on the skin coats, that is, standing there with
their fig leaves on, believing in the blood, thankful as can
be,[20] but naked as new born babes in GOD's sight.
To put in NT terms, we are in the same position as the
Laodiceans of Revelation 3:17 Knowest not that thou are
wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked? Here
Jesus again uses the examples of nakedness and blindness to show
the Church its needs,[21] but He is doing this after His
sacrifice had been made and they had been converted.[22]
This means that the “needed” things or emphasis was entirely
upon their need for holiness in order that they could be right
with Him, for they no longer needed that GOD should make a
sacrifice to justify them. What they needed was to put on the
coats, the new man in Christ, in order that they could truly
have peace with Him. As Jesus said in Revelation 3:17-20 I
counsel thee to buy of Me gold tried in the fire, (unadulterated
or holy faith), that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment,
that thou mayest be clothed (symbolic of purification unto
holiness) and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear (to
all the covered, you are stopping My judgement); and anoint
thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see (that MY enemies
are irrevocable in their choice to be evil, you must become
holy). As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten; be zealous,
therefore, and repent (of your unholiness). Behold, I stand at
(outside) the door (of the heart of this kind of Christian); and
knock (seek acceptance of My holy word). If any man hear My
voice, and open the door (come into unity with My holiness); I
will come into him, and will sup with him (commune intimately,
you will no longer be alone), and he with Me.
So then, when it comes to being saved from GOD's wrath and
having peace with HIM, there is nothing you can do and there is
something you must do.[23] There is nothing you can do because
your saving sacrifice must be wrought by GOD. There is something
you must do because you must put on the coat (white raiment),
that is, become holy, that is, become willing to judge HIS
enemies, that is, open the door to HIM and let HIM in, that is,
be adopted, that is, repent, at least of your unholiness. In
other words, the mere belief in HIS saving sacrifice gets you no
closer to GOD's kingdom than you are right now. Until you repent
and open up (believe) to the extent of being holy, you are just
putting in correctional time, either down here or in the worlds
of the dead. We were “put out” for not being holy and we will
not get back in until we are holy, even though the blood has
been shed.
In other words, without holiness we just stay in the exilic
state we have been in for the last ~6000 years, and Jesus will
not clean up this place (hold His judgement), until it fulfils
the purpose HE created it to do, that is, to bring everyone of
the elect unto repentance and faith unto holiness, and when it
does, then we will get to live in the Promised Land in
peace.[24]
Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech THEE, that THOU hast made me as the
clay; and wilt THOU bring me into dust again? Me in this
Scripture refers primarily to Job's spirit, rather than to his
body. This is shown by verses 11 and 12: THOU hast clothed me
with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
THOU hast granted me life and favour, ... Therefore, we can read
the second part of verse 9 as saying, Wilt THOU bring my spirit
into dust again?
Now, what does it mean by the word “dust”? Well, dust was the
state of Adam's body before it was created, as in Genesis
3:19...till thou return unto the ground: for out of it wast thou
taken, for dust thou art and unto dust thou shalt return.[25] In
this verse, we can see that the second “dust” means the state of
the body before it was created or given life. Therefore when Job
speaks of his spirit being brought to dust, I think it means
that state which the spirit was in before it was given life.
(This interpretation is also attested to by Ecclesiastes 12:7,
and Genesis 4:10, wherein Abel's voice spoke in death, from the
“ground”.) The fact that Job describes this “dust” state as an
“again” further connotes the pre-conception existence of the
spirit. This interpretation also opens up new possibilities for
10:13a And these things hast THOU hid in THINE heart: Might
Job's author be indicating that he knew that these things (our
pre-conception existence and incarnation) had to remain hidden
from general knowledge? Looks like it to me.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the
earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Well now, this is a
pretty straight forward question, and it seems that, in GOD's
view, if Job understands what it is all about, Job must also
know of his whereabouts at the time when GOD laid the
foundations of the Earth. This implies that Job was somewhere
when GOD created the Earth, right? Of course, it can't mean that
because we all know (have understanding) that we did not exist
then, so it has got to mean something else, anything else.
Of course, if it means something else, then this becomes a
pretty stupid question. Like, why don't you go around for a day
and ask all your friends at work where they were when they
didn't exist yet? Just how many of them would walk away
convicted of their inferiority to you regarding the right way to
go about living life (which is what GOD was trying to show Job
by asking him this question)? Well, no doubt some of you fancy
dancers[26] will still want to cling to the security of the
traditional interpretation. Okay but, that is the most insecure
way to go. That's not the rock that will withstand the next
flood. Trouble is, you'll probably never believe me until it's
proven to you, right? So, read on! We’re not finished yet.
The Wisdom of Solomon 8:20(NEB) As a child, I was born to
excellence and a noble soul fell to my lot; or rather, I myself
was noble, and I entered into an unblemished body ......
(JB) I was a boy of happy disposition. I had received a good
soul as my lot, or that, being good, I had entered an undefiled
body. Whoever this author was, he certainly was rather pro
pre-conception existence.
The words, “as my lot” are very interesting too. It seems that
he viewed the blessings of his incarnation as a reward from
GOD.[27] This then has a bearing on the doctrine of rewards, for
it is an obvious question that if our entire life is in GOD's
hands and if every bit of goodness that comes forth in our life
has its source in GOD's prevenient[28] grace, just how can we be
rewarded for that which we have received from GOD?[29] Should it
not be GOD who gets the rewards? Only if we throw pre-conception
works on to the scale, as Solomon seems to in this verse, do we
then come up with a reasonable basis for the doctrine of
rewards, that is, for the fact that some receive much more grace
in their life than others. In other words, this life and all the
grace that is encapsulated in it, is somewhat linked to our
pre-conception works.
The Wisdom of Solomon 10:1(JB)...the father of the world, the
first being to be fashioned, created alone. Since we can tell
that this author believed in pre-conception theology from Wisdom
8:20(see the preceding argument) should we not interpret his
choice of words in this verse in light of that presupposition
(presupposing that he is translated correctly, which is not
always a good presupposition to make). If we take the author's
pre-existence views into account, then we have a pre-existent
spiritual being (a personal being, hence, a person) who was
later fashioned into a living being (oft times called a human
being). In addition to this witness to this being's
pre-fashioning existence, the verse also infers that this being
was but the first in a long line of persons that were so
fashioned. It also seems that Solomon (or whoever) had twigged
on the spiritual meaning of alone. Of course, the wisest guy
should know some theological secrets that hardly anyone else
knows, should he not?
[font=times new roman] [/font]
---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for Misfits, the first
1 - Otherwise known as the uncategory.
2 - This is a very important type (example) and I am afraid that
very many people have not fully understood it. Therefore,
because it is so important and so misunderstood, I would like to
add my say to the already large pile of Biblical Scholarship. In
other words, since our theologians have erred in their diagnosis
of the cause of our problems with GOD, perhaps we should take
another look at the solution GOD gave us in Genesis, because
they probably made some mistakes there too, being that these
things are so intimately related. In other words, this is not a
verse that gives direct proof that we existed before our
conception but rather, it shows that the Scriptures say that the
most important aspect of having “peace with GOD again in Eden”
is our becoming holy, which fact exactly matches pre-conception
existence theology.
3 - Ie, of getting back to Eden.
4 - Otherwise known as unsaving faith. Checked lately to see
what material your raiment (wedding garment) is made of? Or
didn't you know that fig leaves are now being marketed under the
brand name “Whiter than white linen"? Checked to see if it is
clean and well pressed, as per Ephesians 5:27?
5 - Hence, the poisonousness of being unholy, since that is why
they disobeyed.Back:
6 - If you do not recognise the gravity of the situation, please
refer back to the WAGES OF SIN, about page 16 in THY WILL BE
DONE.
7 - See Genesis note 33 on fig leaves.
8 - Most likely in the willingness to judge and be separate from
HIS enemies, that is, in
faith unto holiness at least. It is not explicit in the
Scriptures, but from the general drift of Genesis 3:7-14, it
seems that they were very close to the serpent when GOD found
them. Was it just ironic coincidence, or could it be that they
went to the serpent for help to hide? Perhaps they were just
mysteriously drawn to his presence?
9 - Most likely because it symbolised believing in GOD to the
degree of being willing to not ever eat of the forbidden fruit
anymore, that is, of not ever listening to the serpent anymore,
that is, it symbolised their being holy.
10 - Ephesians 4:24 and 5:27 And that ye put on the new man,
which after GOD is created in righteousness and true holiness. /
That He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not
having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should
be holy and without blemish (in this regard at least).
11 - That is, being forgiven, made righteous, made holy, at
peace with GOD.
12 - As Jesus warned (the latter day Church) in Luke 17:21
Remember Lot's wife. She had to look back to her family and
friends. I guess she did not like what she saw, that is, she did
not think that GOD was right to hurt them that much, that is,
she suddenly became unholy! Hence, she was judged with them. And
just how many other Christians are like Mrs. Disobedient Unholy
Lot? Lots right? (Hence, we may get the great falling away of 2
Thessalonians 2:3.)
13 - If you have the holiness coat on.
14 - Much to M. Luther and everyone else's dismay!
15 - There is a possible exception here but it's very expensive.
Maybe I’ll tell you about it next year.
16 - As per James 2:20. And please take note of his example of
saving faith in action in verse 21.
17 - Although you might be convinced, somewhat akin to the
Laodicean delusion of Revelation 3:17, that you do have peace
with GOD. Of the seven Churches, I believe that this is the one
that has the most members.
18 - Which event He may bring to pass in just a few short years,
so don't go too slow on it.
19 - Matthew 7:21, 22:11 Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord,
Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he that doeth
the will of My Father… / … and the wedding was furnished with
guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, He saw
there a man who had not on a wedding garment. … and (He said
you) cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and
gnashing of teeth. How are you going to do when he starts
weeping “in repentance”? Are you still going to do the will of
the Father who wants you to throw him out?
20 - And maybe even getting religious about it.
21 - I believe He was alluding to this very situation in Genesis
when they were expelled from the garden when they were no longer
naked. They had their skin coats on! There is a big difference
between conversion and adoption. Sometimes they happen at the
same time, but usually they take place many years apart (just
like there is a big difference between getting out of Egypt and
getting into the Promised Land, or between falling in love and
getting married, ie, being adopted into your partner's family).
23 - Otherwise known as the faith and works dilemma. Saving
faith brings forth certain works, or repentance to a certain
degree, that is, you will stop doing most of your sins, but you
will not stop completely, that is, become perfect. Some of these
sins are listed in the NT, to wit: fornication, stealing, lying,
etc (see 1 Corinthians 5:11, 6:9; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3;
Colossians 3:5 and Revelation 21:8). Well, in addition to all
such evils, I hope that you can now see that you can not have
saving faith and still be unholy, as per James 4:4...know ye not
that the friendship of the world (any member, even if it is your
infant child, Matthew 10:37) is enmity with GOD. In other words,
the angels will get you out of Sodom, but you can not disobey,
that is, look back, even if your family and friends are back
there screaming, wailing, howling, and being roasted alive in
GOD’s judgement.
24 - This very same example is reiterated in both Testaments
too. In the OT, we have blood of the Passover (Paschal) Lamb, as
well as its body, with the bitter herbs and holiness, that is,
the willingness to leave Egypt immediately, and one was not
covered by the blood unless one was willing to fulfil these
other requirements as well. In the NT, we have the broken Loaf
and the Wine, and the blood does not cover one unless one is
also willing to partake of it and of the Loaf. And I believe
that it is correct to say that one must be willing to eat and
drink all of it, that there can not be any of it left over (out)
because that is sin. (It seems to me that if one is going to
believe in the transubstantiation of the bread and wine, one
must also believe the same about the flesh of the paschal lamb
and the sin offering.)
25 - It is also interesting to note that in Genesis 3:19 In the
sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto
the ground, for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art,
and unto dust shalt thou return., in the first description of
death in the Bible, the word return plays a prominent part. It
seems that Scripture begins by preferring to view death as a
return, rather than as a new experience.
26 - There was a song in the seventies by Cat Stevens that had a
verse that went like this:
I know a lot of fancy dancers,
people who can glide you on a floor.
They move so smooth, but have no answers when you ask,
why did you come here for?
27 - The lot being the divine way of dividing things up for us.
There is no such thing as “chance” with GOD.
28 - Prevenient: grace which disposes the heart of man to seek
GOD as per John 6:44 No man come to Me, except the Father which
hath sent Me draw him…
29 - If you are one of those who holds that we get rewarded for
our degree of cooperation with the grace of GOD, then you must
also believe that we all get the same amount of grace in this
life and that it's not so effectual in some as it is in others.
To my mind, one problem with this idea is, just how many people
do you know that have seen what Paul and Moses saw, as many
times as they saw it, and how many do you know who have gone up
to heaven? Another problem is that this kind of GOD just seems
to get weaker and weaker as time passes and things become more
and more evil, whereas with different degrees of GOD's grace,
grace seems to increase as times become darker and darker, that
is, as our need becomes greater and greater. (This book being an
excellent example. For some of us who were in on what God was
doing, things have been getting brighter and brighter.) As for
proof that we receive different degrees of grace in this life, I
would submit Luke 12:48 For unto whomsoever much is given, of
him shall be much required.
[/quote]
You place everything in the Bible spirtually???
Blade
#Post#: 7926--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest58 Date: September 13, 2019, 2:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=613.msg7913#msg7913
date=1568343695]You place everything in the Bible spirtually???
Blade[/quote]
Everything in the Bible and in the lives of man has one purpose,
to bring HIS sinful elect to redemption and sanctification so
the postponement of the judgement may end: Matt 13:28 ... So the
servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up
[bring the judgement upon them]?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull
the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both
grow together until the harvest.
No earthly experience is wasted, no jot nor tittle of scripture
is wasted but all is useful to HIS purpose, to cleanse the earth
of evil and to start the holy marriage we call heaven.There is
only spiritual meaning - the worldly pov is dross.
#Post#: 7995--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest8 Date: September 18, 2019, 8:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=613.msg7926#msg7926
date=1568402409]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=613.msg7913#msg7913
date=1568343695]You place everything in the Bible spirtually???
Blade[/quote]
Everything in the Bible and in the lives of man has one purpose,
to bring HIS sinful elect to redemption and sanctification so
the postponement of the judgement may end: Matt 13:28 ... So the
servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up
[bring the judgement upon them]?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull
the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both
grow together until the harvest.
No earthly experience is wasted, no jot nor tittle of scripture
is wasted but all is useful to HIS purpose, to cleanse the earth
of evil and to start the holy marriage we call heaven.There is
only spiritual meaning - the worldly pov is dross.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]what about Israel
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 7998--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest58 Date: September 19, 2019, 12:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=613.msg7995#msg7995
date=1568857115]
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=613.msg7926#msg7926
date=1568402409]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=613.msg7913#msg7913
date=1568343695]You place everything in the Bible spirtually???
Blade[/quote]
Everything in the Bible and in the lives of man has one purpose,
to bring HIS sinful elect to redemption and sanctification so
the postponement of the judgement may end: Matt 13:28 ... So the
servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up
[bring the judgement upon them]?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull
the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both
grow together until the harvest.
No earthly experience is wasted, no jot nor tittle of scripture
is wasted but all is useful to HIS purpose, to cleanse the earth
of evil and to start the holy marriage we call heaven.There is
only spiritual meaning - the worldly pov is dross.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]what about Israel
Blade[/shadow][/quote]
I'm not sure what you mean...what about Israel??
The ultimate return of the sinful elect to Paradise is by the
heavenly marriage which can only happen when they are cleansed
from all evil and made holy and all reality is also cleansed
from evil when it is banished to the outer darkness.
Only when HIS sinful people come out for among HIS eternal
enemies and are separate from them will HE lead them into the
Promised Land.
All earthly systems of authority are given to HIS sinful church
to prove to them that only HIS ways are to be trusted and
followed; patriarchy, prophets, and kings were all proved to
them to be deficient to bring HIS people into salvation. They
are wrapped up in the figure of the fig leaves, that which Adam
and Eve trusted to bring them into favour with GOD so HE would
not kill them, the same idea the Israelites had that they too
were the chosen people so had no need to become holy.
Being an Israelite was no less a fig leaf than being a member of
a Christian sect today and will end the same way even when
Christianity gets a new charismatic leader: 1 Samuel 8:1 When
Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as Israel’s leaders. 2
The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second
was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not
follow his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and
accepted bribes and perverted justice. 4 So all the elders of
Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They
said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your
ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other
nations have.”
6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this
displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told
him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not
you they have rejected, but THEY HAVE REJECTED ME AS THEIR KING.
8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt
until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are
doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and
let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim
as his rights.” Every elect sinner must choose to be holy
before his GOD, accepting that HIS enemies are their enemies and
that HIS judgements are perfect, just and necessary. Being a
member of HIS People does not save anyone. All worldly
allegiances are a rejection of HIM as KING.
#Post#: 8006--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest8 Date: September 19, 2019, 7:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=613.msg7998#msg7998
date=1568912880]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=613.msg7995#msg7995
date=1568857115]
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=613.msg7926#msg7926
date=1568402409]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=613.msg7913#msg7913
date=1568343695]You place everything in the Bible spirtually???
Blade[/quote]
Everything in the Bible and in the lives of man has one purpose,
to bring HIS sinful elect to redemption and sanctification so
the postponement of the judgement may end: Matt 13:28 ... So the
servants asked him, ‘Do you want us to go and pull them up
[bring the judgement upon them]?’ ‘No,’ he said, ‘if you pull
the weeds now, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let both
grow together until the harvest.
No earthly experience is wasted, no jot nor tittle of scripture
is wasted but all is useful to HIS purpose, to cleanse the earth
of evil and to start the holy marriage we call heaven.There is
only spiritual meaning - the worldly pov is dross.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]what about Israel
Blade[/shadow][/quote]
I'm not sure what you mean...what about Israel??
The ultimate return of the sinful elect to Paradise is by the
heavenly marriage which can only happen when they are cleansed
from all evil and made holy and all reality is also cleansed
from evil when it is banished to the outer darkness.
Only when HIS sinful people come out for among HIS eternal
enemies and are separate from them will HE lead them into the
Promised Land.
All earthly systems of authority are given to HIS sinful church
to prove to them that only HIS ways are to be trusted and
followed; patriarchy, prophets, and kings were all proved to
them to be deficient to bring HIS people into salvation. They
are wrapped up in the figure of the fig leaves, that which Adam
and Eve trusted to bring them into favour with GOD so HE would
not kill them, the same idea the Israelites had that they too
were the chosen people so had no need to become holy.
Being an Israelite was no less a fig leaf than being a member of
a Christian sect today and will end the same way even when
Christianity gets a new charismatic leader: 1 Samuel 8:1 When
Samuel grew old, he appointed his sons as Israel’s leaders. 2
The name of his firstborn was Joel and the name of his second
was Abijah, and they served at Beersheba. 3 But his sons did not
follow his ways. They turned aside after dishonest gain and
accepted bribes and perverted justice. 4 So all the elders of
Israel gathered together and came to Samuel at Ramah. 5 They
said to him, “You are old, and your sons do not follow your
ways; now appoint a king to lead us, such as all the other
nations have.”
6 But when they said, “Give us a king to lead us,” this
displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told
him: “Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not
you they have rejected, but THEY HAVE REJECTED ME AS THEIR KING.
8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt
until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are
doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and
let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim
as his rights.” Every elect sinner must choose to be holy
before his GOD, accepting that HIS enemies are their enemies and
that HIS judgements are perfect, just and necessary. Being a
member of HIS People does not save anyone. All worldly
allegiances are a rejection of HIM as KING.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Well I guess it does not matter since you do
not believe in the WORD of GOD anyway.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 8023--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest58 Date: September 20, 2019, 11:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=613.msg8006#msg8006
date=1568938485][shadow=blue,left]Well I guess it does not
matter since you do not believe in the WORD of GOD anyway.
Blade[/shadow][/quote]You slander me just because I don't agree
with you??? My goodness....
#Post#: 8033--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest8 Date: September 20, 2019, 6:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=613.msg8023#msg8023
date=1568997855]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=613.msg8006#msg8006
date=1568938485][shadow=blue,left]Well I guess it does not
matter since you do not believe in the WORD of GOD anyway.
Blade[/shadow][/quote]You slander me just because I don't agree
with you??? My goodness....
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]How is that slander.??..Your words tells
everyone you do not believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ
(According to Scripture)
It does not matter if you do not agree with me. I always ask
people to adhere to Acts 17:11.
What we have here is an election and GOD votes YES, Satan votes
NO.
Now it is up to you to cast the vote as to whether you are saved
or NOT?
If you have to vote to save yourself, you are destined for HELL!
Blade
[/shadow]
#Post#: 12962--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: guest58 Date: May 14, 2020, 1:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=times] The flim flam of exegesis is that for anyone to get
the meaning of a verse from the verse without any input from
their mindset and unfiltered by existing ideas is on the order
of Paul's conversion as a bright light and hearing GOD's voice.
Every interpretation of a verse is eisegesis, the fitting of the
verse into previously accepted definitions. [/font]
#Post#: 16331--------------------------------------------------
Re: Miscellaneous verse Misfits the First:
By: patrick jane Date: August 16, 2020, 9:27 am
---------------------------------------------------------
the flim flam man
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page