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DIR Return to: EVANGELISM & THEOLOGY
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#Post#: 6810--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: guest8 Date: July 3, 2019, 7:58 pm
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[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=513.msg6809#msg6809
date=1562199762]
Nobody said that it did.
What does it mean to be saved? what does it mean to be redeemed
from the curse of the law?
What is God's will for us? as individuals as fellowships or
churches? as the world wide BoC?
Why are testimonies given in the bible? why does God make
promises?
What truly is God's mind in regards to our wellbeing
Are these questions we ought even to be asking?
What would being saved mean in India?
For heaven's sake does God CARE?
One day the people had followed Jesus out into a lonely place
and when the time came to dismiss the people the bible says
Jesus was concerned that they might faint along the way. Does
God CARE about our physical wellbeing?
God instituted marriage and the family, did you know that?
family is God's idea for man. It was in regard to family that
God blessed Abraham. A family based society, any family based
society totally depends upon God to prosper and bless.
God would not have ordained marriage and family unless He was
able to provide for the same.
Prosperity has ALWAYS been God's will for mankind, why would it
not be? In Eden there was PLENTY of prosperity, a full
abundance. That's God's will for man.
God blessed Abraham, He blessed Abraham's children , He blessed
the nation of Israel … when they walked with Him, God's will is
to bless YOU.
Wherever did the teaching arise that God loves us when we are
poor but hates us if we prosper? It is a Catholic teaching not a
bible teaching. The Catholic governments kept the people poor
and therefore subject while they engrandised themselves.
Sure God loves poor people, He will save them but then He will
bye and bye lift them out of the extremes of poverty … that is
what He has done in all the nations that have received the
gospel and allowed the church.
Don't you know that is why America prospered? and Europe?
But all of God's blessings depend upon faith … if you believe it
is God's will for you to be poor … how can God bless you?
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
I turned my life over to Jesus Christ. What HE provides is good
enough for me.
To Prosper is a loaded pistol and to many, they go ahead and
pull the trigger. New car, New house, etc......until the point
of no return is reached and Greed takes over.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 6823--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: Billy Evmur Date: July 4, 2019, 5:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You know God has certain titles in the bible, The Lord our
Righteousness, the Lord our Healer, The Lord our Provider, the
Lord our Deliverer, the Lord our Shepherd etc, as evangelicals
we make much of the Lord our Righteousness and so we should but
we don't say so much about the rest of it.
Has God then provided for you? taken care of you? gotten you out
of scrapes? helped you out? then let the redeemed of the Lord
say so.
God is good, His will for us is good.
Every gift and blessing that God gives us has a health warning
on it.
I was once invited home to tea with a bunch of Plymouth Brethren
of the more exclusive sort, rather like the American Amish, you
know if they invite you to tea it is a sign of acceptance. They
wanted to hear what I had to say about the baptism of the Holy
Ghost.
And talking about gifts one brother said "ah I think if God used
me in such a way I would be afraid I might become proud"
Well ... you know folks get proud even without gifts, say of
healing or prophecy, in my view the whole idea of ministry
without the unction of the Holy Ghost IS proud . People rely on
their ability to tell a good story, make a telling point, just
putting a sermon together.
When they have preached do they feel rather proud of themselves?
if they pray well publicly, do they feel just a little bit smug?
The pride is already there, the pride is there when we do a
small thing, if we ever get to do a great thing the pride will
grow in measure.
Isn't best to deal with the pride? take the problem head on,
instead of covering it up by not taking responsibility, making
it an excuse for holding back.
Prosperity certainly brings with it temptations, isn't better to
deal with those issues of the heart that cause the temptation?
They will be there now, just they are covered up by the fact
that we are unable to indulge them.
Holiness and prosperity go together … I'm talking about GODLY
PROSPERITY, I am not speaking about robbing banks or playing
fast and loose in business.
When God prospers it is an expansion of YOU, what you are, what
you believe. It enlarges your field, your influence. I mean as a
church fellowship as well as individually.
People will want to talk about Jesus and about Paul and that is
another debate to be had. As a rider to that I would say two
things. Both Jesus and Paul knew how to abound as well as suffer
want. And also in both Jesus and Paul it can be said they became
poor to make others rich.
#Post#: 6825--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: guest17 Date: July 4, 2019, 6:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=513.msg6809#msg6809
date=1562199762]
Nobody said that it did.[/Quote]
You said that the poorest people of the world are not saved. Do
you realize how many Christians there are who are poor even
right here in the U.S.? And here you are saying that the poorest
of people are not saved. How do you think your statement about
them would make them feel? After all they've been through, all
the suffering, yet they are still saved. Or is being poor a sin
in your view? Does being poor mean that one is not saved?
[Quote]What would being saved mean in India?[/Quote]
Why do you keep saying that? There are three million Christians
in India. The conditions there are because of those in power. It
is not because people aren't saved there.
[Quote]For heaven's sake does God CARE?[/Quote]
We weren't promised a rose garden in this world. Jesus said that
we would have suffering, problems and troubles in this world but
to take heart because he has overcome the world.
John 16:33 I have spoken these things to you so that you shall
have peace in me. You shall have suffering in the world, but
take heart, I have overcome the world.”
He also said:
John 15:20 “Remember the word that I have spoken to you, that
there is no servant greater than his master. If they have
persecuted me, they will persecute you also; if they have kept
my word, they will also keep yours.”
John 15:18 And if the world hates you, know that it hated me
before you.”
Matt. 6:33But seek first the Kingdom of God and his
righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
34Therefore you shall not be concerned about tomorrow, for
tomorrow will be concerned for itself. A day's own trouble is
sufficient for it.
Matt. 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
[Quote]But all of God's blessings depend upon faith … if you
believe it is God's will for you to be poor … how can God bless
you?[/Quote]
First of all, I haven't said that it is God's will for me or
anyone to be poor. There's a difference between getting what I
might want and what I need. He will provide what I need and he
has or else I wouldn't be alive right now. I certainly wouldn't
have been able to survive what I've been through without God's
help and blessing.
I think the real question is what kind of blessings do we expect
from God. What blessings really matter and are most important.
We need to see the big picture and not just this temporary life
here in this world.
Matthew 6:19-21 “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on
earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in
and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where
neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in
and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be
also.
James 2:5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those
who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the
kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?
Proverbs 16:16 How much better to get wisdom than gold! To get
understanding is to be chosen rather than silver.
Philippians 4:19
And my God will supply every need of yours according to his
riches in glory in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus
Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual
blessing in the heavenly places, ...
2 Corinthians 6:9-10 As unknown, and yet well known; as dying,
and behold, we live; as punished, and yet not killed; as
sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich;
as having nothing, yet possessing everything.
Mark 8:34-37 And calling the crowd to him with his disciples, he
said to them, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny
himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would
save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my
sake and the gospel's will save it. For what does it profit a
man to gain the whole world and forfeit his soul? For what can a
man give in return for his soul?
Matthew 19:23-25 And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say
to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the
kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to
go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter
the kingdom of God.” When the disciples heard this, they were
greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
Matthew 8:19-20 And a scribe came up and said to him, “Teacher,
I will follow you wherever you go.” And Jesus said to him,
“Foxes have holes, and birds of the air have nests, but the Son
of Man has nowhere to lay his head.”
Matthew 6:24“No one can serve two masters, for either he will
hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the
one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
Proverbs 2:1-22My son, if you receive my words and treasure up
my commandments with you, making your ear attentive to wisdom
and inclining your heart to understanding; yes, if you call out
for insight and raise your voice for understanding, if you seek
it like silver and search for it as for hidden treasures, then
you will understand the fear of the Lord and find the knowledge
of God. ...
#Post#: 6835--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: Billy Evmur Date: July 4, 2019, 3:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
No, whether people are saved does not depend on whether they are
rich or poor. I am not saying that. But I am saying poverty is
not a virtue see, if it were then the poorer you were, the
better chance you would have of being saved.
Poverty is not a blessing it is a curse.
Christians ought to look to God to lift them out of povetry,
God's will is to bless and prosper His children.
"Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest be in
health and prosper, even as thy soul prospereth."
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and
all these things will be added unto you"
I keep mentioning India because India is poor … three million is
a tiny percentage of the population. It has only grown to this
number in the last 50 or so years.
Do you believe poverty is a curse?
Do you believe God cares? if people are ill clad or hungry?
#Post#: 6843--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: guest17 Date: July 4, 2019, 9:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=513.msg6835#msg6835
date=1562272031]
No, whether people are saved does not depend on whether they are
rich or poor. I am not saying that. But I am saying poverty is
not a virtue see, if it were then the poorer you were, the
better chance you would have of being saved.
Poverty is not a blessing it is a curse.
Christians ought to look to God to lift them out of povetry,
God's will is to bless and prosper His children.
"Beloved I willest above all things that thou mayest be in
health and prosper, even as thy soul prospereth."
"But seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and
all these things will be added unto you"
I keep mentioning India because India is poor … three million is
a tiny percentage of the population. It has only grown to this
number in the last 50 or so years.
Do you believe poverty is a curse?
Do you believe God cares? if people are ill clad or hungry?
[/quote]
I have clearly explained my views and beliefs about this. I have
provided many scriptures to support what I've said. At this
point any further discussion from me about this would be
repetition. We are not in agreement so we will just have to
agree to disagree.
#Post#: 6849--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: Billy Evmur Date: July 5, 2019, 2:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Take the quote "My God shall supply all your needs according to
His riches in glory by Christ Jesus"
Now ye Phillipians know also that in the beginning of the
gospel, when I departed from Macedonia no church communicated
with me as concerning GIVING and RECIEVING but ye only.
For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my
necessity
Not because I desire a gift but I desire fruit that may abound
to your account.
But I have all and abound, I am full having received of
Epaphroditus the things which were sent by you, an odour of a
sweet smell, a sacrifice well pleasing to God.
But my God will supply all your need according to His riches in
glory by Christ Jesus.
Paul is not here writing to a single person but to an assembly
of God's people at Phillipi.
It is good to take God's word as personal to each of us
individually, but here the promise is to the church.
What does it say?
It says this assembly had a partnership going, wow, that's
exciting. I have visited many fellowships where they have
missionaries in different places across the world, in poor
place, there is always the heartfelt plea for funds please,
please, please help, do your duty, dig deep etc … you know you
ought to.
Give, give, give
There is never any mention of receiving.
Paul said the partnership was one of giving and receiving, they
want you give but they say nothing about receiving. … maybe ,
just maybe that is why Christians tend to give so little, maybe
that's why church projects are always so poorly funded.
See Paul's gospel was the same as Jesu's
Give and it shall be given you again, good measure, pressed down
and shaken together and running over shall men give into your
bosom. For with the measure ye mete shall it be meted unto you
again.
That's what Paul taught the Corinthians. He who sows sparingly
shall also reap sparingly but he who sows abundantly shall also
reap abundantly.
That YOU might have all sufficiency for your own needs with
plenty left over for every good work.
That is God's word, that is God's will.
#Post#: 6982--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: patrick jane Date: July 11, 2019, 6:02 am
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✝🙏🍺🍕🐟👁‍
8488;
#Post#: 7253--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: guest8 Date: July 24, 2019, 10:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=513.msg6982#msg6982
date=1562842966]
✝🙏🍺🍕🐟👁‍
8488;
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]I see you liked Billy's statement
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 7495--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: Billy Evmur Date: August 11, 2019, 6:30 am
---------------------------------------------------------
What about our Lord's statement?
seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all
these things shall be added unto you
[He doesn't say "might be"]
#Post#: 7514--------------------------------------------------
Re: God wants you to prosper
By: guest8 Date: August 12, 2019, 8:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=513.msg7495#msg7495
date=1565523039]
What about our Lord's statement?
seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all
these things shall be added unto you
[He doesn't say "might be"]
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Hey Billy,,,, I agree.
Blade[/shadow]
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