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#Post#: 5550--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: patrick jane Date: May 10, 2019, 2:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
By Faith and Through Faith
HTML http://graceambassadors.com/salvation/by-faith-and-through-faith
By Justin Johnson
“Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by
faith, and uncircumcision through faith.” – Romans 3:30
Inevitably, discussing this verse involves a gauntlet of word
games and definitions. Why is it by for the circumcision and
through for the uncircumcision? Everyone knows there is a
difference, but what exactly is it? Let’s give it a go.
“But before faith came, we were kept under the law…” – Gal 3:23
Under the law dispensation, righteousness came through obedience
to Israel’s covenants.
“For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law,
That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.” –
Romans 10:5
Yet, even Israel, who was instructed by God from the law, could
not keep the law. Both Jew and Gentile were under sin.
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one…” –
Romans 3:10
The law could not justify:
“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be
justified in his sight:…” – Romans 3:20
Not even Israel could be justified by the law. It was through
the requirements of the covenant that Jesus died as a
propitiation for the “remission of sins that are past”, those
sins committed under the law dispensation (Rom 3:25).
All Men Justified By Faith
Justification always requires faith. For the circumcision,
justification was by faith. The covenant promised kingdoms and
required works. Faith would obey God. Through obedience to the
covenants Israel’s faith was made perfect.
“Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was
faith made perfect?” – James 2:22
“Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only.” – James 2:24
They were justified by faith and works through their covenants
with God.
Through Faith
The law was an integral part of God’s prophetic purpose with
Israel (Rom 3:1-2). The law required obedience. However, the
circumcision was truly justified by faith when they failed to
obey. Faith would offer a sacrifice through the covenant.
The uncircumcision had been rejected by God already. They were
strangers of the covenants (Eph 2:10). There was no pretense
that they would be justified through a covenant. The sinners of
the Gentiles could only hope to be justified through faith in
the gospel of the grace of God.
The uncircumcision was justified by faith, but being strangers
of the covenants it was also through faith in the finished work
of Christ (Rom 5:1, Eph 2:8).
“Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by
faith, and uncircumcision through faith.” – Romans 3:30
Faith Without the Law
The law, which was the knowledge of sin, taught Israel that they
needed faith in God (Rom 3:19-20). It was not until Paul that
righteousness without the law was manifested and faith stood
alone for justification.
“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested,
being witnessed by the law and the prophets;” – Romans 3:21
Today, it has been revealed that all are under sin.
Justification comes by faith in God’s instructions, but also
through faith alone in Christ’s finished work. No more works are
needed, no covenant is needed, justification is offered today by
faith and through faith without works.
“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man
should boast.” – Ephesians 2:8-9
Israel’s faith did not void the law. Our faith is without the
law.
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#Post#: 6150--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: patrick jane Date: June 7, 2019, 9:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
No More Strangers and Foreigners
By Justin Johnson
Ephesians 2:12 says Gentiles were “aliens” and “strangers” from
Israel and the covenants of promise. Seven verses later Gentiles
are “no more strangers and foreigners”.
“Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but
fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;” –
Eph 2:19
Something happened in those seven verses that granted
uncircumcised Gentiles benefits they did not have before.
What happened? What are the benefits?
The answers are in the context.
If we ignore the verses between Eph 2:12 and Eph 2:19, we could
easily jump to the wrong conclusion that the church is Israel
now and the true recipients of Israel’s covenants of promise.
In Time Past
Between Eph 2:12 and Eph 2:19 there is a dispensational change.
That is to say Paul explains a change in God’s revelation
concerning how he relates to us and we to him.
In Ephesians 2:12 Paul is explaining the way God related to the
world in “time past” as seen in the previous verse.
“Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the
flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the
Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;” – Ephesians 2:11
In time past God purposed to work through Israel to bless the
nations. Israel was the channel of blessing from God to the
world. No one had closer access to God than did a Jew.
Jews were separated from Gentiles by their God given covenants,
circumcision, and laws.
In time past, Gentiles had no access to God or his blessings
except through Israel and their covenants. Gentiles had no hope
without Israel, the created nation of priests.
But now, it is different.
A Dispensational Change
“But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made
nigh by the blood of Christ.” – Eph 2:13
In a single verse Paul leaps a dispensational boundary from how
God operated in time past, to describing how God operates now.
Now, Gentiles have the privilege of being “in Christ Jesus” by
the blood of Christ offered to all, both those that were far off
in time past, and those that were nigh in time past (Eph 2:17).
No longer do Gentiles need to go to Israel or be partakers of
their covenants of promise to receive hope and blessings from
God.
Eph 2:13 describes their privilege of gaining access to God and
his blessings by means of the blood of Christ.
Instead of requiring Israel to offer sacrifices to make peace
with God, Gentiles could now glory that Christ Jesus is our
peace (Eph 2:14).
The same Christ according to the mystery has broken down what
separated the Jew and Gentile in time past, and which, at that
time, gave Israel special access to God and salvation.
Now, all have free access to God through Jesus Christ by the
preaching of the cross.
A New Creature
Paul continues to explain the change in Eph 2:15-16. Whereas in
time past there were two peoples (Jew and Gentiles), there is
now only one man.
Moreover, the one man is a new man, being neither Jew nor
Gentile.
“For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing,
nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.” – Gal 6:15
Both Jew and Gentile are reconciled to God equally in one body
by the cross (Eph 2:16).
In time past, the house of God was the house of Israel. But now,
the house of God is a body of believers in Christ.
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit
of God dwelleth in you?” – 1 Cor 3:16
Gentiles do not need to go through Israel to be reconciled. They
now have access in the “one body” of Christ.
Gentiles do not need to partake in Israel’s covenants of promise
to have peace with God. They can now be saved freely by the
cross (Eph 2:8-9).
Access Through Christ
Eph 2:18 explains the benefit and privilege that is now
accessible to Gentiles.
In time past it would’ve been a privilege to be part of Israel,
and heir to Israel’s covenants, because it would grant exclusive
access to God and his blessings.
But now, access to the Father is offered freely to all men
through Jesus Christ according to the revelation of the mystery.
“For through [Christ] we both have access by one Spirit unto the
Father.” – Eph 2:18
Men no longer need to be citizens of Israel to have access to
God. We need to be members of the one body of Christ, the new
creature.
Neither do men need to be heirs of Israel’s covenants to receive
blessings from God. We need to be part of God’s promise in
Christ to offer salvation freely to all men by his grace (Eph
3:6).
No More Strangers
In time past Gentiles were aliens from Israel and strangers from
the covenants of promise given to Israel, making them far off
from the only channel of access to God and his blessings.
But now, a new channel of direct access to God is revealed for
both Jew and Gentile which is through the Lord Jesus Christ
according to the gospel of the grace of God.
“Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but
fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;” –
Eph 2:19
There is no more separation between Jew and Gentile. We are
fellowcitizens with all saints (who are no longer called
circumcision nor uncircumcision, but saints).
Instead of becoming part of the house of Israel and Judah
according to the old and new covenants, we are partakers of the
household of God, which is the church (1 Tim 3:15).
Instead of strangers we are all familiar to God, and instead of
being foreign we can now receive the benefits of God’s grace as
rightful heirs in Christ (Rom 5:2, Rom 8:17).
If any be in Christ, he is no more strangers and foreigners.
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#Post#: 6419--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: patrick jane Date: June 16, 2019, 9:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A Look at History With and Without Israel
By Justin Johnson
History is dated around the incarnation of Christ. There is
history before Christ (B.C), and the present time with Christ
(A.D.).
There is another way to look at history: when God worked through
Israel.
Most of Bible history concerns that one nation God ordained with
a promise to Israel’s forefathers: “I will make of thee a great
nation” and “in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be
blessed” (Gen 12:3; Gen 22:18).
This Hebrew nation was to be God’s channel of blessing to the
nations of the world.
Israel was not to be reckoned among the nations (Num 23:9). Any
nation that was not Israel was known as Gentile.
God has not dealt with any nation as he did with Israel (Num
23:9; Psa 147:20). When God works through Israel, there must
also be Gentiles: nations that would receive blessing (or curse)
through God’s working with Israel.
A Look at History
From Adam to Abraham God did not work through any single nation.
There was no promise, no Israel; no Jew, no Gentile.
With the giving of promises to Abraham, their covenants, and
law, there was the Israel of God; a separation of Jew and
Gentile.
We see in history a period with Christ, and a period without
Christ. We can also see a period with Israel (Jew and Gentile)
and a period without Israel (neither Jew nor Gentile).
When seen together we can start to see God’s purpose in history.
HTML http://www.graceambassadors.com/images/140809_article2.jpg
In the beginning there was a period without Jew or Gentile and
without Christ. This resulted in man’s failure.
In time past there was a second period with Israel (Jew and
Gentile) but without Christ. This resulted in Israel’s failure.
Since Christ, there is a period with Israel (Jew and Gentile)
and with Christ. This will result in the salvation of Israel and
the blessing of the nations.
Fourthly, there is a period without Israel (no Jew nor Gentile)
and with Christ. This results in the salvation of a creature not
mentioned in Israel’s history called the church, the Body of
Christ (Rom 11:32; Gal 3:28; Col 3:11; Eph 2:15).
God Working in History
HTML http://www.graceambassadors.com/images/140809_article.jpg
With Israel God is operating with nations, and intervening on
earth according to his covenants with Israel.
Without Israel God is not operating with nations, and does not
intervene on earth according to his covenants with Israel.
Without Christ man fails at attaining any sort of righteousness
before God (Rom 3:23).
With Christ God succeeds at providing salvation by his grace
through faith.
Few Christians are ignorant that we are now living in the time
of history with Christ, but few understand that we are living in
a period without Israel, spiritual or otherwise (2 Cor 5:17; Gal
3:28; Gal 6:15).
“For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this
mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that
blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in.” – Romans 11:25
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#Post#: 6432--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: guest8 Date: June 17, 2019, 7:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[shadow=blue,left]PJ and others that follow the MAD doctrine...I
am interested to see if you read the following passages the same
as I do.
We are close to Acts 17 but not quite.. Acts 15 will do.
Acts 15:5 (KJV).."But there rose up certain of the sect of the
Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to
circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
Here the Pharisees are telling Paul and company, the law of
Moses needs to be followed to be saved (circumcised)
Acts 15:7 (KJV).."And when there had been much disputing, Peter
rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that
a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by
my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."
Here Paul is telling them, that Jesus had to Paul to teach it to
the Gentiles as well as to the Jews. (I might add, the Jews were
to be taught first then the Gentiles.)
Acts 15:8.(KJV).."And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them
witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"
Notice the last bit of scripture."even as He did unto us" Us are
JEWS and it is apparent they also had the Holy Ghost as previous
time... In the next verse, Paul tells them the Gentiles and Jews
are the same.
Acts 15:9(KJV).."And put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith."
I do believe I just read where the Church started with the Jews
in Acts 2. "even as He did unto us"
Of course, at this time the Church (Body of Christ) is not known
but it has already started. For all of those that believed and
received the Holy Spirit during the transition period of Acts
are part of the Church. Those that died during this same time
period "in Jesus" are in heaven awaiting the rest of the "first
resurrection" to commence.
Blade
[/shadow]
#Post#: 6435--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: patrick jane Date: June 17, 2019, 8:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=5.msg6432#msg6432
date=1560819223]
[shadow=blue,left]PJ and others that follow the MAD doctrine...I
am interested to see if you read the following passages the same
as I do.
We are close to Acts 17 but not quite.. Acts 15 will do.
Acts 15:5 (KJV).."But there rose up certain of the sect of the
Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to
circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
Here the Pharisees are telling Paul and company, the law of
Moses needs to be followed to be saved (circumcised)
Acts 15:7 (KJV).."And when there had been much disputing, Peter
rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that
a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by
my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."
Here Paul is telling them, that Jesus had to Paul to teach it to
the Gentiles as well as to the Jews. (I might add, the Jews were
to be taught first then the Gentiles.)
Acts 15:8.(KJV).."And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them
witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"
Notice the last bit of scripture."even as He did unto us" Us are
JEWS and it is apparent they also had the Holy Ghost as previous
time... In the next verse, Paul tells them the Gentiles and Jews
are the same.
Acts 15:9(KJV).."And put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith."
I do believe I just read where the Church started with the Jews
in Acts 2. "even as He did unto us"
Of course, at this time the Church (Body of Christ) is not known
but it has already started. For all of those that believed and
received the Holy Spirit during the transition period of Acts
are part of the Church. Those that died during this same time
period "in Jesus" are in heaven awaiting the rest of the "first
resurrection" to commence.
Blade
[/shadow]
[/quote]Yes, I agree Blade. But there are many so called MADs
that would not. There are many divisions within MAD including
the Acts 2 group, Acts 9, Acts 13 and Acts 28. So maybe I'm not
even MAD but I agree with so much of the interpretation. I would
have to say the the Body Of Christ (BOC), the Church, started at
@ Acts 2.
#Post#: 6468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: guest8 Date: June 19, 2019, 11:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=5.msg6435#msg6435
date=1560821750]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=5.msg6432#msg6432
date=1560819223]
[shadow=blue,left]PJ and others that follow the MAD doctrine...I
am interested to see if you read the following passages the same
as I do.
We are close to Acts 17 but not quite.. Acts 15 will do.
Acts 15:5 (KJV).."But there rose up certain of the sect of the
Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to
circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."
Here the Pharisees are telling Paul and company, the law of
Moses needs to be followed to be saved (circumcised)
Acts 15:7 (KJV).."And when there had been much disputing, Peter
rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that
a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by
my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe."
Here Paul is telling them, that Jesus had to Paul to teach it to
the Gentiles as well as to the Jews. (I might add, the Jews were
to be taught first then the Gentiles.)
Acts 15:8.(KJV).."And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them
witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;"
Notice the last bit of scripture."even as He did unto us" Us are
JEWS and it is apparent they also had the Holy Ghost as previous
time... In the next verse, Paul tells them the Gentiles and Jews
are the same.
Acts 15:9(KJV).."And put no difference between us and them,
purifying their hearts by faith."
I do believe I just read where the Church started with the Jews
in Acts 2. "even as He did unto us"
Of course, at this time the Church (Body of Christ) is not known
but it has already started. For all of those that believed and
received the Holy Spirit during the transition period of Acts
are part of the Church. Those that died during this same time
period "in Jesus" are in heaven awaiting the rest of the "first
resurrection" to commence.
Blade
[/shadow]
[/quote]Yes, I agree Blade. But there are many so called MADs
that would not. There are many divisions within MAD including
the Acts 2 group, Acts 9, Acts 13 and Acts 28. So maybe I'm not
even MAD but I agree with so much of the interpretation. I would
have to say the the Body Of Christ (BOC), the Church, started at
@ Acts 2.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Whoa, I never knew there were so many
dispensations for those of MAD...Talking about
hyper-dispensation.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 9078--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: patrick jane Date: December 6, 2019, 2:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZJCT-Z-m18
#Post#: 9117--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: guest8 Date: December 9, 2019, 8:32 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=5.msg9078#msg9078
date=1575621564]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZJCT-Z-m18
[/quote]
It seems I agree with Him on most points except spiritual
Israel.
The Bible speaks of the Elect...This elect is divided in several
sections...
1. The Church (body of Christ) includes the 144,000
2. The OT Saints
3. The Tribulation Saints
4. The Remnant of Israel....
Where do they live according to the Bible.....
1. In Heaven,,,,are Kings and Priest
2. In Heaven and earth (millennium)....
3. In Heaven and Earth (servants to the temple)
4. On Earth.
Blade
#Post#: 9696--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: patrick jane Date: January 15, 2020, 9:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ohb5gErTtR8
#Post#: 10251--------------------------------------------------
Re: Salvation, Doctrine and Rightly Dividing - MAD
By: patrick jane Date: February 13, 2020, 11:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8EzWfo2Kt4
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