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DIR Return to: Biblical Pre-Conception Existence Theology (PCE)
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#Post#: 5829--------------------------------------------------
3. Genesis Study cntd...
By: guest58 Date: May 23, 2019, 8:43 pm
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"Coffee Break"
Well, if you are anywhere close to being normal, you should be
able to identify with Saint Peter, ie, you know what it feels
like to be hanging upside down on your cross. In other words,
you should be fairly confused by now. Well, if you are, don't
get into a sweat about it. The confusion usually dissipates if
it's read over again. (And I have yet to meet anyone who didn't
have it after the third time through.[54] This is by far the
hardest part of this book,[55] and it is very basic, so please
try to get it well before you go on. (That's the easiest way
too.[56] Just imagine where we might to end up if this is how it
starts!)
Here are some hints. When it asks you a question, try to answer
it. Don't put finding the answer off. Secondly, don't read it so
fast. You should have noticed by now that you just can't breeze
over it and have it make sense immediately. On the other hand,
it will make good sense if you go slow and answer the questions
(or, at least, try to). You're going to have to do some work to
see things this way. Blessed are those who are hungry enough to
do the work, at least, that's what everyone says who has already
worked hard enough to have climbed this mountain. They all say
that the view is absolutely out of this world, and that the
fruit at the top is even better, definitely worth the
effort.[57]
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of
the field, which the LORD GOD had made.[58] Strong's(#14) gives
the meaning of subtil, 6175, aw-room, as: “passive participle
of 6191[59]; cunning (usually in a bad sense): translated as:
crafty, prudent, subtil.” Therefore, I believe that I can say
that this attribute carries the connotation of moral badness.
The serpent was bad to be subtle, and if that is so, then, the
rest of the animals must have been a bit bad too, but just not
quite so bad as the serpent.
Now, I believe that this is somewhat contrary to the picture
that we are usually given of the good old animals in “pre-fall”
Eden. We are usually given a picture of complete peace and
goodness among the entire animal population.[60] Of course, we
should not forget where that idealistic picture comes from. It
is necessitated by the presupposition that none of us existed
before the earthly creation. Therefore, it had to be faultless
in all respects or else the works of GOD would not match up with
the character They have revealed to us. Therefore, we just
change or ignore a few Scriptures like this one, rather than
changing our presuppositions.
Well, now we have another Scripture that says that something was
bad in the garden before Adam and Eve ate the fruit. First, it
was bad that Adam was alone. Second, it was bad that they were
naked but not ashamed. Now we have a lot of bad animals too. And
who are we to blame for all this badness? Well, if we blame Adam
and Eve, that is, if GOD created it bad in response to their
previous sin, then we must also admit that we all existed before
our conception and that we are given life to be saved by
learning to be faithful unto the degree of obedience that is
holy.
Genesis 3:5 For GOD doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods (elohim,
NIV: GOD) knowing good and evil.[61]
Many of the traditional interpretations of this verse have Eve
wanting to be like GOD, ie, coveting the glory of GOD for
herself to the extent of being willing to make a grab for it,
while trusting primarily on the witness of the serpent to the
effect that she would not receive or could thwart GOD's judgment
of death; and secondly, trusting her own rationality, which also
helped to convince her that the serpent's way was indeed better
and attainable.
This interpretation also forces us to believe that she was an
horrible liar in that she attempted to blame her fall, not on
her willful sin (covetousness) but on the fact that she was
beguiled, that is, misled by a seducing evil spirit. According
to preconception theology, she fell because she listened to the
lie of the serpent, which lie she was prone to believing because
she thought him to be a minister of GOD's grace (ie, she was
spiritually blind, unable to always distinguish between good and
evil preachers) and because she greatly desired to become like
the ELOHIM. Her desire was the same as every believer (who would
like to get into Paradise), commendable and quite normal.[62]
Her sin was in seeking to obtain this worthy goal through the
“faithful"[63] way that the serpent suggested to her. She
obviously believed that he was trying to help her achieve this
goal, but alas, to her shame, he had another goal in mind, and
was lying to her. Thus we can see that Eve's error was directly
attributable to her spiritual blindness, that is, to the fact
that she listened to him as if he were her friend and divine
messenger, rather than looking on him as being one of her worst
enemies.
Now, if GOD created her spiritually blind, that is, in such a
way that she would be very prone to looking on the serpent as
her friend, and HE refused or neglected to warn her of satan'sss
nature, that is, of the incredible danger she would be in if she
listened to him, how can we say that GOD loved her or did
everything without fault? One would think that if HE had any
love in HIM, HE would have warned her about him, HE doing
everything perfectly and she being so "blind, naive,[64]
innocent and undefiled", right? Of course, if she was already
defiled and blinded by her unwillingness to believe GOD's word
about HIS enemies and by her friendliness towards them, then GOD
just might have put her in HIS earthly garden and allowed the
serpent to beguile her into eating her way out of it, without
warning her of his evil intentions,[65] so that she would learn
of his true character through this nasty experience (since she
was unwilling to believe HIM about HIS enemies) so that, the
next time HE called for a judgment against all of HIS enemies,
she for one, would be willing to believe HIM that such a
judgment was absolutely necessary for a peaceful life in Eden
(having found that out by her experience) and not be beguiled
out of that judgment (peaceful life) again. (And what's your
favourite interpretation again?)
Perhaps if you are having a hard time deciding between the two
interpretations, you could consider this question: how did Eve
view life in Eden? To ask it another way, did Eve believe that
Edenic life was her everlasting Paradise, or did she look on it
as spiritual school time (because she was good but immature) or
did she look on it as a spiritual hospital or correctional
school (because of her fault)?
Well, it is obvious, from the serpent'sss appeal to her, that
she considered herself to be spiritually blind, and that she
wanted to get to see (that is, to be like Elohim, no longer
unable to discern between the good and the evil). Thus, it
should be apparent that she knew the difference between being
blind and being able to see, that is, she knew that some PERsons
could discern between the good and the evil, and she knew that
she could not.
Now, just how do you think she came to know that she could not
see? Well, she might have been able to see before, that is, at
one time was able to distinguish between the good and the evil,
but subsequent to that time, became confused, that is, changed
her mind somewhat; or, if she had been created blind, GOD might
have told her about seeing.[66] In other words, GOD might have
told her all about the good spirits and the evil spirits, ie,
what the evil spirits were like, who they were, and her
necessity to stay away from them.
In other words, she would already have had her eyes opened by
GOD (if she believed and understood what HE was telling her).
But if her eyes were opened, that is, if she believed and
understood GOD about seeing, she would not have been blind, that
is, still open to the serpent's temptation, that is, still
accepting him as a good person with an helpful message about
God. Well then, since this way of learning about her blindness
dissipates her blindness (that is, makes her unwilling to listen
to temptations about having her blindness cured) and since her
behaviour shows that she was still blind, she could not have
learned about being blind and seeing in this way.
In other words, either GOD did not tell her about seeing, or if
HE did, she did not believe HIM, which makes her a rebellious
unbeliever, which blatantly contradicts the fact that she wanted
to get cured.
But since she wanted to be cured, then GOD could not have told
her, and if GOD did not tell her, this only leaves us with the
other way, to wit: she knew she was blind because she had
previously been able to see,[67] and this being the case, she
had to look on life as being a spiritual hospital or
correctional centre for her faulty vision[68] (and whatever
caused it).
In other words, the fact that she was spiritually blind means
that she previously had been unfaithful (the only way one
becomes blinded) and the dearth of blatant witness to any prior
unfaithfulness in Eden can only mean that her faithlessness had
taken place before she was given earthly life, and her earthly
life was created to be the means of bringing her to repentance
and faithfulness (sight) again. So then, according to the Bible,
Eve looked at life the same as a pre-conceptionist does.[69]
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD GOD said unto the serpent, Because
thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above
every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust
shalt thou eat all the days of thy life...[/size Some of the
accepted interpretations of this verse really send me into
stitches - painful ones. Of course, not possessing the accurate
interpretation on account of the prevalence of false theological
presuppositions, and assuming that any “legless”[70]
interpretation is better than admitting that we just do not know
what all the wise GOD is talking about, it becomes very easy to
slip into interpretations that future children will really
wonder about. So then, how else can we interpret this verse? As
it plainly reads, the cattle were cursed already and so were the
beasts of the field, that is, this creation was not so “very
good” at all by this time. Is it too absurd to surmise that it
was “originally” created (or recreated[71]) in a fallen, cursed
condition, very good for a chastitory, converting and
sanctifying purpose? No it’s not.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed. From this prophecy we can
see that GOD's purpose in life from the time of this statement
(and quite possibly before that time, since HE planned it well
before that time) has been to put enmity[72] between the
non-elect (thy seed) and the elect (her seed).[73] I do not know
of any prevailing theology that teaches us about this as being
the foremost aspect of GOD's purpose in life, that is, except
for pre-conception existence.[74]
The second thing worthy of note is that the putting of enmity
presupposes its non-existence, that is, the existence of
friendship with the world or non-elect. In other words, it
presupposes their knowing the good and the evil.[75] I believe
that this interpretation is backed up by Malachi 3:18, which
prophesies, I believe, of the fulfillment of this verse. Malachi
3:18 And you will again see the distinction[76] between the
righteous and the wicked, between those who serve GOD and those
who do not. (NIV)
For those who now know how to correctly interpret the prophets,
a check on the context will confirm that in this verse Malachi
is addressing the elect in the latter days. And isn't it
interesting that Malachi views their blindness as something they
picked up along the way, rather than being the way they were
created, that is, at one time all of the now[77] blind people
could see the difference between the good and the evil, to which
sight they will finally be restored?
Conclusion for Genesis: To my mind, this constitutes very good
proof of an exceptionally strong spiritual foundation for
preconception theology in Genesis.[78] Therefore, I say that
preconception existence theology is the most attested to by the
Scriptures. Perhaps you are thinking that I am not justified in
making that statement based on only a few exceptional hard to
understand Scriptures that did not fit in anywhere else. Well,
if you do not yet consider me justified in making that
statement, then why not continue on?
Maybe you might agree with me after you finish my first mundane,
boring category. It is my hope that you will find out, as it has
been stated by others so many times, that the message of the
Scriptures is (fairly) consistent throughout. One more thing, as
it also has been stated on so many occasions down through the
ages: welcome to revealed religion, or as the Lord so aptly
stated it in Hebrews 12:26 Yet once more I shake[79] not the
earth only, but also heaven. In other words, what do you think
is going to happen if I’m even just half as right as I say I am?
---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for: 3. Genesis Study...
54. Sometimes known as really putting you through!
55. Undoubtedly the newness of the view-idea has a bit to do
with it.
56. Therefore count on the devil to try to talk you out of it!
57. That is, of course, if your heart seeks for a view from on
high.
58. From just reading it, don’t you get the impression that
the serpent was not one of the beasts that the LORD GOD had made
then?Back:
59. Strong’s(#14) 6191, aw-ram'; a primary root; properly to be
(or make) bare; but used only in the derivative sense (through
the idea perhaps of smoothness) to be cunning (usually in a bad
sense): translated as: very, beware, take crafty (counsel), be
prudent, deal subtilly. This is the root the word “naked” in
2:25 comes from. (Genesis 2:25 And they both were naked, the man
and his wife, and were not ashamed.) In other words, Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field
which the LORD GOD had made. could just as well be translated
“the serpent was more naked than any beast!” Of course, since
that would be giving away the whole show, it probably has been
acceptable (as per Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance
GOD winked at; but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.)
to have the subtle interpretation.
60. Remember all those pictures of Adam and Eve, with all the
nice, sugary, totally unrealistic animals, usually standing in
front of them, covering them up. Radical theology to say the
least! Quite a cover-up!
61. That is, to not be idolatrous, ie, to learn that GOD's
ideas (ways) are always the best, the most beneficial to us,
definitely better than anyone else's.
62. Especially so if she had just recently been put out of
Paradise for not being able to distinguish between the good and
the evil.
63. “Didn't GOD predestine you to eternal life? If so, then
how can you die? Is the GOD who wants you to live forever going
to kill you? Is something going to kill you when GOD wants you
to live forever? When are you going to start believing in the
all-powerful GOD who loves you infinitely? When are you going to
believe that there is nothing more powerful than the tree of
life?”
64. Her blindness can not mean naïveté because naïveté is
ended by GOD's self-attesting witness, which they had already
received because they already accepted HIM as their GOD.
65. Doesn't it remind you of 1 Corinthians 5:5 Deliver such an
one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit
might be saved.?
66. GOD's enemies would not have told her about seeing, for to
do so, they would have had to tell her the truth about
themselves. In other words, being spiritually blind means
looking on some of the evil as being good, and looking on some
of the truth about evil as being a lie.
67. This way she would know the difference but still be blind,
that is, still seeking to be cured, that is, still open to the
serpent's temptation, that is, still unwilling to stay separate
from those things GOD had told her to stay separate from. Do you
still have any doubts as to which one of these matches the
biblical account of what happened in Eden?
68. ie, discernment, that is, disbelief in GOD's word.
69. Understanding does not come easy but it does come if you
do the work. So read it slowly and think about what it's saying.
And you have to do it if you're going to be on the side that
understands. Don't worry. Everything usually falls into place by
the third time through.
70. That is, without understanding!! (Some Christians believe
that the serpent had legs before this.)
71. Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void. The
word “was” may also be translated “became”. “Without form and
void” (Hebrew: tohu wabohu) describes the result of a divine
judgment in the other two places where the phrase is used in the
Bible (Isaiah 34:11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall
possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he
shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones
of emptiness., and Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and lo, it
was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no
light.
72. That is, to make us faithful unto holiness, for holiness
is the only source of such enmity.
73. Many interpret this as referring to Jesus. I do not think
that can be correct, for is it not quite unreasonable to include
Him in the group that needs to be separated in spirit from
satan's seed, that is, that needs to become holy?
74. Just like before Jesus came there was no one teaching about
the deity of the Lamb.
75. That is, unholiness, that is, spiritual blindness.
76. To see the distinction is to lay upon oneself the
necessity of making the distinction, that is, the necessity of
becoming holy. Please note that in Malachi 3:18, the righteous
are defined as those who serve GOD, not those who believe in
HIM. Obviously those who serve HIM will believe in HIM, but
there are an awful lot who believe in HIM who do not serve HIM.
I would say that if you plan on being one of HIS jewels, you had
better take note of the difference.
77. That is, the latter day elect. Just when did you first see
the difference in a way that could fulfill this prophecy? Well,
you won't wonder when you are finished with this book. (You must
take note that you did not see “in Adam” because Adam and Eve
were blind.) Welcome to a bigger universe.
78. Of course, I've studied it enough that I can really
understand everything you've just gone over. If you want to
understand it, you'll have to read it again. It doesn’t take
long. It goes a lot faster the second time.
79. Primary waves do not shake you up too bad, but just wait
till the love waves get here. (Look them up under
“earthquakes”.)
#Post#: 5838--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3. Genesis Study cntd...
By: guest8 Date: May 23, 2019, 10:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=460.msg5829#msg5829
date=1558662211]
"Coffee Break"
Well, if you are anywhere close to being normal, you should be
able to identify with Saint Peter, ie, you know what it feels
like to be hanging upside down on your cross. In other words,
you should be fairly confused by now. Well, if you are, don't
get into a sweat about it. The confusion usually dissipates if
it's read over again. (And I have yet to meet anyone who didn't
have it after the third time through.[54] This is by far the
hardest part of this book,[55] and it is very basic, so please
try to get it well before you go on. (That's the easiest way
too.[56] Just imagine where we might to end up if this is how it
starts!)
Here are some hints. When it asks you a question, try to answer
it. Don't put finding the answer off. Secondly, don't read it so
fast. You should have noticed by now that you just can't breeze
over it and have it make sense immediately. On the other hand,
it will make good sense if you go slow and answer the questions
(or, at least, try to). You're going to have to do some work to
see things this way. Blessed are those who are hungry enough to
do the work, at least, that's what everyone says who has already
worked hard enough to have climbed this mountain. They all say
that the view is absolutely out of this world, and that the
fruit at the top is even better, definitely worth the
effort.[57]
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of
the field, which the LORD GOD had made.[58] Strong's(#14) gives
the meaning of subtil, 6175, aw-room, as: “passive participle
of 6191[59]; cunning (usually in a bad sense): translated as:
crafty, prudent, subtil.” Therefore, I believe that I can say
that this attribute carries the connotation of moral badness.
The serpent was bad to be subtle, and if that is so, then, the
rest of the animals must have been a bit bad too, but just not
quite so bad as the serpent.
Now, I believe that this is somewhat contrary to the picture
that we are usually given of the good old animals in “pre-fall”
Eden. We are usually given a picture of complete peace and
goodness among the entire animal population.[60] Of course, we
should not forget where that idealistic picture comes from. It
is necessitated by the presupposition that none of us existed
before the earthly creation. Therefore, it had to be faultless
in all respects or else the works of GOD would not match up with
the character They have revealed to us. Therefore, we just
change or ignore a few Scriptures like this one, rather than
changing our presuppositions.
Well, now we have another Scripture that says that something was
bad in the garden before Adam and Eve ate the fruit. First, it
was bad that Adam was alone. Second, it was bad that they were
naked but not ashamed. Now we have a lot of bad animals too. And
who are we to blame for all this badness? Well, if we blame Adam
and Eve, that is, if GOD created it bad in response to their
previous sin, then we must also admit that we all existed before
our conception and that we are given life to be saved by
learning to be faithful unto the degree of obedience that is
holy.
Genesis 3:5 For GOD doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods (elohim,
NIV: GOD) knowing good and evil.[61]
Many of the traditional interpretations of this verse have Eve
wanting to be like GOD, ie, coveting the glory of GOD for
herself to the extent of being willing to make a grab for it,
while trusting primarily on the witness of the serpent to the
effect that she would not receive or could thwart GOD's judgment
of death; and secondly, trusting her own rationality, which also
helped to convince her that the serpent's way was indeed better
and attainable.
This interpretation also forces us to believe that she was an
horrible liar in that she attempted to blame her fall, not on
her willful sin (covetousness) but on the fact that she was
beguiled, that is, misled by a seducing evil spirit. According
to preconception theology, she fell because she listened to the
lie of the serpent, which lie she was prone to believing because
she thought him to be a minister of GOD's grace (ie, she was
spiritually blind, unable to always distinguish between good and
evil preachers) and because she greatly desired to become like
the ELOHIM. Her desire was the same as every believer (who would
like to get into Paradise), commendable and quite normal.[62]
Her sin was in seeking to obtain this worthy goal through the
“faithful"[63] way that the serpent suggested to her. She
obviously believed that he was trying to help her achieve this
goal, but alas, to her shame, he had another goal in mind, and
was lying to her. Thus we can see that Eve's error was directly
attributable to her spiritual blindness, that is, to the fact
that she listened to him as if he were her friend and divine
messenger, rather than looking on him as being one of her worst
enemies.
Now, if GOD created her spiritually blind, that is, in such a
way that she would be very prone to looking on the serpent as
her friend, and HE refused or neglected to warn her of satan'sss
nature, that is, of the incredible danger she would be in if she
listened to him, how can we say that GOD loved her or did
everything without fault? One would think that if HE had any
love in HIM, HE would have warned her about him, HE doing
everything perfectly and she being so "blind, naive,[64]
innocent and undefiled", right? Of course, if she was already
defiled and blinded by her unwillingness to believe GOD's word
about HIS enemies and by her friendliness towards them, then GOD
just might have put her in HIS earthly garden and allowed the
serpent to beguile her into eating her way out of it, without
warning her of his evil intentions,[65] so that she would learn
of his true character through this nasty experience (since she
was unwilling to believe HIM about HIS enemies) so that, the
next time HE called for a judgment against all of HIS enemies,
she for one, would be willing to believe HIM that such a
judgment was absolutely necessary for a peaceful life in Eden
(having found that out by her experience) and not be beguiled
out of that judgment (peaceful life) again. (And what's your
favourite interpretation again?)
Perhaps if you are having a hard time deciding between the two
interpretations, you could consider this question: how did Eve
view life in Eden? To ask it another way, did Eve believe that
Edenic life was her everlasting Paradise, or did she look on it
as spiritual school time (because she was good but immature) or
did she look on it as a spiritual hospital or correctional
school (because of her fault)?
Well, it is obvious, from the serpent'sss appeal to her, that
she considered herself to be spiritually blind, and that she
wanted to get to see (that is, to be like Elohim, no longer
unable to discern between the good and the evil). Thus, it
should be apparent that she knew the difference between being
blind and being able to see, that is, she knew that some PERsons
could discern between the good and the evil, and she knew that
she could not.
Now, just how do you think she came to know that she could not
see? Well, she might have been able to see before, that is, at
one time was able to distinguish between the good and the evil,
but subsequent to that time, became confused, that is, changed
her mind somewhat; or, if she had been created blind, GOD might
have told her about seeing.[66] In other words, GOD might have
told her all about the good spirits and the evil spirits, ie,
what the evil spirits were like, who they were, and her
necessity to stay away from them.
In other words, she would already have had her eyes opened by
GOD (if she believed and understood what HE was telling her).
But if her eyes were opened, that is, if she believed and
understood GOD about seeing, she would not have been blind, that
is, still open to the serpent's temptation, that is, still
accepting him as a good person with an helpful message about
God. Well then, since this way of learning about her blindness
dissipates her blindness (that is, makes her unwilling to listen
to temptations about having her blindness cured) and since her
behaviour shows that she was still blind, she could not have
learned about being blind and seeing in this way.
In other words, either GOD did not tell her about seeing, or if
HE did, she did not believe HIM, which makes her a rebellious
unbeliever, which blatantly contradicts the fact that she wanted
to get cured.
But since she wanted to be cured, then GOD could not have told
her, and if GOD did not tell her, this only leaves us with the
other way, to wit: she knew she was blind because she had
previously been able to see,[67] and this being the case, she
had to look on life as being a spiritual hospital or
correctional centre for her faulty vision[68] (and whatever
caused it).
In other words, the fact that she was spiritually blind means
that she previously had been unfaithful (the only way one
becomes blinded) and the dearth of blatant witness to any prior
unfaithfulness in Eden can only mean that her faithlessness had
taken place before she was given earthly life, and her earthly
life was created to be the means of bringing her to repentance
and faithfulness (sight) again. So then, according to the Bible,
Eve looked at life the same as a pre-conceptionist does.[69]
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD GOD said unto the serpent, Because
thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above
every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust
shalt thou eat all the days of thy life...[/size Some of the
accepted interpretations of this verse really send me into
stitches - painful ones. Of course, not possessing the accurate
interpretation on account of the prevalence of false theological
presuppositions, and assuming that any “legless”[70]
interpretation is better than admitting that we just do not know
what all the wise GOD is talking about, it becomes very easy to
slip into interpretations that future children will really
wonder about. So then, how else can we interpret this verse? As
it plainly reads, the cattle were cursed already and so were the
beasts of the field, that is, this creation was not so “very
good” at all by this time. Is it too absurd to surmise that it
was “originally” created (or recreated[71]) in a fallen, cursed
condition, very good for a chastitory, converting and
sanctifying purpose? No it’s not.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed. From this prophecy we can
see that GOD's purpose in life from the time of this statement
(and quite possibly before that time, since HE planned it well
before that time) has been to put enmity[72] between the
non-elect (thy seed) and the elect (her seed).[73] I do not know
of any prevailing theology that teaches us about this as being
the foremost aspect of GOD's purpose in life, that is, except
for pre-conception existence.[74]
The second thing worthy of note is that the putting of enmity
presupposes its non-existence, that is, the existence of
friendship with the world or non-elect. In other words, it
presupposes their knowing the good and the evil.[75] I believe
that this interpretation is backed up by Malachi 3:18, which
prophesies, I believe, of the fulfillment of this verse. Malachi
3:18 And you will again see the distinction[76] between the
righteous and the wicked, between those who serve GOD and those
who do not. (NIV)
For those who now know how to correctly interpret the prophets,
a check on the context will confirm that in this verse Malachi
is addressing the elect in the latter days. And isn't it
interesting that Malachi views their blindness as something they
picked up along the way, rather than being the way they were
created, that is, at one time all of the now[77] blind people
could see the difference between the good and the evil, to which
sight they will finally be restored?
Conclusion for Genesis: To my mind, this constitutes very good
proof of an exceptionally strong spiritual foundation for
preconception theology in Genesis.[78] Therefore, I say that
preconception existence theology is the most attested to by the
Scriptures. Perhaps you are thinking that I am not justified in
making that statement based on only a few exceptional hard to
understand Scriptures that did not fit in anywhere else. Well,
if you do not yet consider me justified in making that
statement, then why not continue on?
Maybe you might agree with me after you finish my first mundane,
boring category. It is my hope that you will find out, as it has
been stated by others so many times, that the message of the
Scriptures is (fairly) consistent throughout. One more thing, as
it also has been stated on so many occasions down through the
ages: welcome to revealed religion, or as the Lord so aptly
stated it in Hebrews 12:26 Yet once more I shake[79] not the
earth only, but also heaven. In other words, what do you think
is going to happen if I’m even just half as right as I say I am?
---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for: 3. Genesis Study...
54. Sometimes known as really putting you through!
55. Undoubtedly the newness of the view-idea has a bit to do
with it.
56. Therefore count on the devil to try to talk you out of it!
57. That is, of course, if your heart seeks for a view from on
high.
58. From just reading it, don’t you get the impression that
the serpent was not one of the beasts that the LORD GOD had made
then?Back:
59. Strong’s(#14) 6191, aw-ram'; a primary root; properly to be
(or make) bare; but used only in the derivative sense (through
the idea perhaps of smoothness) to be cunning (usually in a bad
sense): translated as: very, beware, take crafty (counsel), be
prudent, deal subtilly. This is the root the word “naked” in
2:25 comes from. (Genesis 2:25 And they both were naked, the man
and his wife, and were not ashamed.) In other words, Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field
which the LORD GOD had made. could just as well be translated
“the serpent was more naked than any beast!” Of course, since
that would be giving away the whole show, it probably has been
acceptable (as per Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance
GOD winked at; but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.)
to have the subtle interpretation.
60. Remember all those pictures of Adam and Eve, with all the
nice, sugary, totally unrealistic animals, usually standing in
front of them, covering them up. Radical theology to say the
least! Quite a cover-up!
61. That is, to not be idolatrous, ie, to learn that GOD's
ideas (ways) are always the best, the most beneficial to us,
definitely better than anyone else's.
62. Especially so if she had just recently been put out of
Paradise for not being able to distinguish between the good and
the evil.
63. “Didn't GOD predestine you to eternal life? If so, then
how can you die? Is the GOD who wants you to live forever going
to kill you? Is something going to kill you when GOD wants you
to live forever? When are you going to start believing in the
all-powerful GOD who loves you infinitely? When are you going to
believe that there is nothing more powerful than the tree of
life?”
64. Her blindness can not mean naïveté because naïveté is
ended by GOD's self-attesting witness, which they had already
received because they already accepted HIM as their GOD.
65. Doesn't it remind you of 1 Corinthians 5:5 Deliver such an
one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit
might be saved.?
66. GOD's enemies would not have told her about seeing, for to
do so, they would have had to tell her the truth about
themselves. In other words, being spiritually blind means
looking on some of the evil as being good, and looking on some
of the truth about evil as being a lie.
67. This way she would know the difference but still be blind,
that is, still seeking to be cured, that is, still open to the
serpent's temptation, that is, still unwilling to stay separate
from those things GOD had told her to stay separate from. Do you
still have any doubts as to which one of these matches the
biblical account of what happened in Eden?
68. ie, discernment, that is, disbelief in GOD's word.
69. Understanding does not come easy but it does come if you
do the work. So read it slowly and think about what it's saying.
And you have to do it if you're going to be on the side that
understands. Don't worry. Everything usually falls into place by
the third time through.
70. That is, without understanding!! (Some Christians believe
that the serpent had legs before this.)
71. Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void. The
word “was” may also be translated “became”. “Without form and
void” (Hebrew: tohu wabohu) describes the result of a divine
judgment in the other two places where the phrase is used in the
Bible (Isaiah 34:11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall
possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he
shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones
of emptiness., and Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and lo, it
was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no
light.
72. That is, to make us faithful unto holiness, for holiness
is the only source of such enmity.
73. Many interpret this as referring to Jesus. I do not think
that can be correct, for is it not quite unreasonable to include
Him in the group that needs to be separated in spirit from
satan's seed, that is, that needs to become holy?
74. Just like before Jesus came there was no one teaching about
the deity of the Lamb.
75. That is, unholiness, that is, spiritual blindness.
76. To see the distinction is to lay upon oneself the
necessity of making the distinction, that is, the necessity of
becoming holy. Please note that in Malachi 3:18, the righteous
are defined as those who serve GOD, not those who believe in
HIM. Obviously those who serve HIM will believe in HIM, but
there are an awful lot who believe in HIM who do not serve HIM.
I would say that if you plan on being one of HIS jewels, you had
better take note of the difference.
77. That is, the latter day elect. Just when did you first see
the difference in a way that could fulfill this prophecy? Well,
you won't wonder when you are finished with this book. (You must
take note that you did not see “in Adam” because Adam and Eve
were blind.) Welcome to a bigger universe.
78. Of course, I've studied it enough that I can really
understand everything you've just gone over. If you want to
understand it, you'll have to read it again. It doesn’t take
long. It goes a lot faster the second time.
79. Primary waves do not shake you up too bad, but just wait
till the love waves get here. (Look them up under
“earthquakes”.)
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]To the Reader: If you believe any part of the
above, I have some Arizona Beach land for sale at a low cost.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 5841--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3. Genesis Study cntd...
By: patrick jane Date: May 23, 2019, 10:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[shadow=green,left]Did you read it all Blade? I find it
interesting and I like to think. [/shadow] :-\
#Post#: 16094--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3. Genesis Study cntd...
By: patrick jane Date: August 12, 2020, 7:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
No he didn't
#Post#: 16121--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3. Genesis Study cntd...
By: guest8 Date: August 12, 2020, 10:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=460.msg16094#msg16094
date=1597235035]
No he didn't
[/quote]
PJ, The words I spoke were several months ago. I don't rem that
far back. I will read it again in the next day or so and reply
accordingly. in the mean time, it says.
"Here are some hints. When it asks you a question, try to answer
it. Don't put finding the answer off. Secondly, don't read it so
fast. You should have noticed by now that you just can't breeze
over it and have it make sense immediately. On the other hand,
it will make good sense if you go slow and answer the questions
(or, at least, try to). You're going to have to do some work to
see things this way. Blessed are those who are hungry enough to
do the work, at least, that's what everyone says who has already
worked hard enough to have climbed this mountain. They all say
that the view is absolutely out of this world, and that the
fruit at the top is even better, definitely worth the effor"
#Post#: 16122--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3. Genesis Study cntd...
By: guest8 Date: August 12, 2020, 10:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=460.msg5838#msg5838
date=1558669231]
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=460.msg5829#msg5829
date=1558662211]
"Coffee Break"
Well, if you are anywhere close to being normal, you should be
able to identify with Saint Peter, ie, you know what it feels
like to be hanging upside down on your cross. In other words,
you should be fairly confused by now. Well, if you are, don't
get into a sweat about it. The confusion usually dissipates if
it's read over again. (And I have yet to meet anyone who didn't
have it after the third time through.[54] This is by far the
hardest part of this book,[55] and it is very basic, so please
try to get it well before you go on. (That's the easiest way
too.[56] Just imagine where we might to end up if this is how it
starts!)
Here are some hints. When it asks you a question, try to answer
it. Don't put finding the answer off. Secondly, don't read it so
fast. You should have noticed by now that you just can't breeze
over it and have it make sense immediately. On the other hand,
it will make good sense if you go slow and answer the questions
(or, at least, try to). You're going to have to do some work to
see things this way. Blessed are those who are hungry enough to
do the work, at least, that's what everyone says who has already
worked hard enough to have climbed this mountain. They all say
that the view is absolutely out of this world, and that the
fruit at the top is even better, definitely worth the
effort.[57]
Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of
the field, which the LORD GOD had made.[58] Strong's(#14) gives
the meaning of subtil, 6175, aw-room, as: “passive participle
of 6191[59]; cunning (usually in a bad sense): translated as:
crafty, prudent, subtil.” Therefore, I believe that I can say
that this attribute carries the connotation of moral badness.
The serpent was bad to be subtle, and if that is so, then, the
rest of the animals must have been a bit bad too, but just not
quite so bad as the serpent.
Now, I believe that this is somewhat contrary to the picture
that we are usually given of the good old animals in “pre-fall”
Eden. We are usually given a picture of complete peace and
goodness among the entire animal population.[60] Of course, we
should not forget where that idealistic picture comes from. It
is necessitated by the presupposition that none of us existed
before the earthly creation. Therefore, it had to be faultless
in all respects or else the works of GOD would not match up with
the character They have revealed to us. Therefore, we just
change or ignore a few Scriptures like this one, rather than
changing our presuppositions.
Well, now we have another Scripture that says that something was
bad in the garden before Adam and Eve ate the fruit. First, it
was bad that Adam was alone. Second, it was bad that they were
naked but not ashamed. Now we have a lot of bad animals too. And
who are we to blame for all this badness? Well, if we blame Adam
and Eve, that is, if GOD created it bad in response to their
previous sin, then we must also admit that we all existed before
our conception and that we are given life to be saved by
learning to be faithful unto the degree of obedience that is
holy.
Genesis 3:5 For GOD doth know that in the day ye eat thereof,
then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods (elohim,
NIV: GOD) knowing good and evil.[61]
Many of the traditional interpretations of this verse have Eve
wanting to be like GOD, ie, coveting the glory of GOD for
herself to the extent of being willing to make a grab for it,
while trusting primarily on the witness of the serpent to the
effect that she would not receive or could thwart GOD's judgment
of death; and secondly, trusting her own rationality, which also
helped to convince her that the serpent's way was indeed better
and attainable.
This interpretation also forces us to believe that she was an
horrible liar in that she attempted to blame her fall, not on
her willful sin (covetousness) but on the fact that she was
beguiled, that is, misled by a seducing evil spirit. According
to preconception theology, she fell because she listened to the
lie of the serpent, which lie she was prone to believing because
she thought him to be a minister of GOD's grace (ie, she was
spiritually blind, unable to always distinguish between good and
evil preachers) and because she greatly desired to become like
the ELOHIM. Her desire was the same as every believer (who would
like to get into Paradise), commendable and quite normal.[62]
Her sin was in seeking to obtain this worthy goal through the
“faithful"[63] way that the serpent suggested to her. She
obviously believed that he was trying to help her achieve this
goal, but alas, to her shame, he had another goal in mind, and
was lying to her. Thus we can see that Eve's error was directly
attributable to her spiritual blindness, that is, to the fact
that she listened to him as if he were her friend and divine
messenger, rather than looking on him as being one of her worst
enemies.
Now, if GOD created her spiritually blind, that is, in such a
way that she would be very prone to looking on the serpent as
her friend, and HE refused or neglected to warn her of satan'sss
nature, that is, of the incredible danger she would be in if she
listened to him, how can we say that GOD loved her or did
everything without fault? One would think that if HE had any
love in HIM, HE would have warned her about him, HE doing
everything perfectly and she being so "blind, naive,[64]
innocent and undefiled", right? Of course, if she was already
defiled and blinded by her unwillingness to believe GOD's word
about HIS enemies and by her friendliness towards them, then GOD
just might have put her in HIS earthly garden and allowed the
serpent to beguile her into eating her way out of it, without
warning her of his evil intentions,[65] so that she would learn
of his true character through this nasty experience (since she
was unwilling to believe HIM about HIS enemies) so that, the
next time HE called for a judgment against all of HIS enemies,
she for one, would be willing to believe HIM that such a
judgment was absolutely necessary for a peaceful life in Eden
(having found that out by her experience) and not be beguiled
out of that judgment (peaceful life) again. (And what's your
favourite interpretation again?)
Perhaps if you are having a hard time deciding between the two
interpretations, you could consider this question: how did Eve
view life in Eden? To ask it another way, did Eve believe that
Edenic life was her everlasting Paradise, or did she look on it
as spiritual school time (because she was good but immature) or
did she look on it as a spiritual hospital or correctional
school (because of her fault)?
Well, it is obvious, from the serpent'sss appeal to her, that
she considered herself to be spiritually blind, and that she
wanted to get to see (that is, to be like Elohim, no longer
unable to discern between the good and the evil). Thus, it
should be apparent that she knew the difference between being
blind and being able to see, that is, she knew that some PERsons
could discern between the good and the evil, and she knew that
she could not.
Now, just how do you think she came to know that she could not
see? Well, she might have been able to see before, that is, at
one time was able to distinguish between the good and the evil,
but subsequent to that time, became confused, that is, changed
her mind somewhat; or, if she had been created blind, GOD might
have told her about seeing.[66] In other words, GOD might have
told her all about the good spirits and the evil spirits, ie,
what the evil spirits were like, who they were, and her
necessity to stay away from them.
In other words, she would already have had her eyes opened by
GOD (if she believed and understood what HE was telling her).
But if her eyes were opened, that is, if she believed and
understood GOD about seeing, she would not have been blind, that
is, still open to the serpent's temptation, that is, still
accepting him as a good person with an helpful message about
God. Well then, since this way of learning about her blindness
dissipates her blindness (that is, makes her unwilling to listen
to temptations about having her blindness cured) and since her
behaviour shows that she was still blind, she could not have
learned about being blind and seeing in this way.
In other words, either GOD did not tell her about seeing, or if
HE did, she did not believe HIM, which makes her a rebellious
unbeliever, which blatantly contradicts the fact that she wanted
to get cured.
But since she wanted to be cured, then GOD could not have told
her, and if GOD did not tell her, this only leaves us with the
other way, to wit: she knew she was blind because she had
previously been able to see,[67] and this being the case, she
had to look on life as being a spiritual hospital or
correctional centre for her faulty vision[68] (and whatever
caused it).
In other words, the fact that she was spiritually blind means
that she previously had been unfaithful (the only way one
becomes blinded) and the dearth of blatant witness to any prior
unfaithfulness in Eden can only mean that her faithlessness had
taken place before she was given earthly life, and her earthly
life was created to be the means of bringing her to repentance
and faithfulness (sight) again. So then, according to the Bible,
Eve looked at life the same as a pre-conceptionist does.[69]
Genesis 3:14 And the LORD GOD said unto the serpent, Because
thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above
every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust
shalt thou eat all the days of thy life...[/size Some of the
accepted interpretations of this verse really send me into
stitches - painful ones. Of course, not possessing the accurate
interpretation on account of the prevalence of false theological
presuppositions, and assuming that any “legless”[70]
interpretation is better than admitting that we just do not know
what all the wise GOD is talking about, it becomes very easy to
slip into interpretations that future children will really
wonder about. So then, how else can we interpret this verse? As
it plainly reads, the cattle were cursed already and so were the
beasts of the field, that is, this creation was not so “very
good” at all by this time. Is it too absurd to surmise that it
was “originally” created (or recreated[71]) in a fallen, cursed
condition, very good for a chastitory, converting and
sanctifying purpose? No it’s not.
Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman,
and between thy seed and her seed. From this prophecy we can
see that GOD's purpose in life from the time of this statement
(and quite possibly before that time, since HE planned it well
before that time) has been to put enmity[72] between the
non-elect (thy seed) and the elect (her seed).[73] I do not know
of any prevailing theology that teaches us about this as being
the foremost aspect of GOD's purpose in life, that is, except
for pre-conception existence.[74]
The second thing worthy of note is that the putting of enmity
presupposes its non-existence, that is, the existence of
friendship with the world or non-elect. In other words, it
presupposes their knowing the good and the evil.[75] I believe
that this interpretation is backed up by Malachi 3:18, which
prophesies, I believe, of the fulfillment of this verse. Malachi
3:18 And you will again see the distinction[76] between the
righteous and the wicked, between those who serve GOD and those
who do not. (NIV)
For those who now know how to correctly interpret the prophets,
a check on the context will confirm that in this verse Malachi
is addressing the elect in the latter days. And isn't it
interesting that Malachi views their blindness as something they
picked up along the way, rather than being the way they were
created, that is, at one time all of the now[77] blind people
could see the difference between the good and the evil, to which
sight they will finally be restored?
Conclusion for Genesis: To my mind, this constitutes very good
proof of an exceptionally strong spiritual foundation for
preconception theology in Genesis.[78] Therefore, I say that
preconception existence theology is the most attested to by the
Scriptures. Perhaps you are thinking that I am not justified in
making that statement based on only a few exceptional hard to
understand Scriptures that did not fit in anywhere else. Well,
if you do not yet consider me justified in making that
statement, then why not continue on?
Maybe you might agree with me after you finish my first mundane,
boring category. It is my hope that you will find out, as it has
been stated by others so many times, that the message of the
Scriptures is (fairly) consistent throughout. One more thing, as
it also has been stated on so many occasions down through the
ages: welcome to revealed religion, or as the Lord so aptly
stated it in Hebrews 12:26 Yet once more I shake[79] not the
earth only, but also heaven. In other words, what do you think
is going to happen if I’m even just half as right as I say I am?
---------------------------------------------------------
Notes for: 3. Genesis Study...
54. Sometimes known as really putting you through!
55. Undoubtedly the newness of the view-idea has a bit to do
with it.
56. Therefore count on the devil to try to talk you out of it!
57. That is, of course, if your heart seeks for a view from on
high.
58. From just reading it, don’t you get the impression that
the serpent was not one of the beasts that the LORD GOD had made
then?Back:
59. Strong’s(#14) 6191, aw-ram'; a primary root; properly to be
(or make) bare; but used only in the derivative sense (through
the idea perhaps of smoothness) to be cunning (usually in a bad
sense): translated as: very, beware, take crafty (counsel), be
prudent, deal subtilly. This is the root the word “naked” in
2:25 comes from. (Genesis 2:25 And they both were naked, the man
and his wife, and were not ashamed.) In other words, Genesis 3:1
Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field
which the LORD GOD had made. could just as well be translated
“the serpent was more naked than any beast!” Of course, since
that would be giving away the whole show, it probably has been
acceptable (as per Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance
GOD winked at; but now commandeth all men everywhere to repent.)
to have the subtle interpretation.
60. Remember all those pictures of Adam and Eve, with all the
nice, sugary, totally unrealistic animals, usually standing in
front of them, covering them up. Radical theology to say the
least! Quite a cover-up!
61. That is, to not be idolatrous, ie, to learn that GOD's
ideas (ways) are always the best, the most beneficial to us,
definitely better than anyone else's.
62. Especially so if she had just recently been put out of
Paradise for not being able to distinguish between the good and
the evil.
63. “Didn't GOD predestine you to eternal life? If so, then
how can you die? Is the GOD who wants you to live forever going
to kill you? Is something going to kill you when GOD wants you
to live forever? When are you going to start believing in the
all-powerful GOD who loves you infinitely? When are you going to
believe that there is nothing more powerful than the tree of
life?”
64. Her blindness can not mean naïveté because naïveté is
ended by GOD's self-attesting witness, which they had already
received because they already accepted HIM as their GOD.
65. Doesn't it remind you of 1 Corinthians 5:5 Deliver such an
one unto satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit
might be saved.?
66. GOD's enemies would not have told her about seeing, for to
do so, they would have had to tell her the truth about
themselves. In other words, being spiritually blind means
looking on some of the evil as being good, and looking on some
of the truth about evil as being a lie.
67. This way she would know the difference but still be blind,
that is, still seeking to be cured, that is, still open to the
serpent's temptation, that is, still unwilling to stay separate
from those things GOD had told her to stay separate from. Do you
still have any doubts as to which one of these matches the
biblical account of what happened in Eden?
68. ie, discernment, that is, disbelief in GOD's word.
69. Understanding does not come easy but it does come if you
do the work. So read it slowly and think about what it's saying.
And you have to do it if you're going to be on the side that
understands. Don't worry. Everything usually falls into place by
the third time through.
70. That is, without understanding!! (Some Christians believe
that the serpent had legs before this.)
71. Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void. The
word “was” may also be translated “became”. “Without form and
void” (Hebrew: tohu wabohu) describes the result of a divine
judgment in the other two places where the phrase is used in the
Bible (Isaiah 34:11 But the cormorant and the bittern shall
possess it; the owl also and the raven shall dwell in it: and he
shall stretch out upon it the line of confusion, and the stones
of emptiness., and Jeremiah 4:23 I beheld the earth, and lo, it
was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no
light.
72. That is, to make us faithful unto holiness, for holiness
is the only source of such enmity.
73. Many interpret this as referring to Jesus. I do not think
that can be correct, for is it not quite unreasonable to include
Him in the group that needs to be separated in spirit from
satan's seed, that is, that needs to become holy?
74. Just like before Jesus came there was no one teaching about
the deity of the Lamb.
75. That is, unholiness, that is, spiritual blindness.
76. To see the distinction is to lay upon oneself the
necessity of making the distinction, that is, the necessity of
becoming holy. Please note that in Malachi 3:18, the righteous
are defined as those who serve GOD, not those who believe in
HIM. Obviously those who serve HIM will believe in HIM, but
there are an awful lot who believe in HIM who do not serve HIM.
I would say that if you plan on being one of HIS jewels, you had
better take note of the difference.
77. That is, the latter day elect. Just when did you first see
the difference in a way that could fulfill this prophecy? Well,
you won't wonder when you are finished with this book. (You must
take note that you did not see “in Adam” because Adam and Eve
were blind.) Welcome to a bigger universe.
78. Of course, I've studied it enough that I can really
understand everything you've just gone over. If you want to
understand it, you'll have to read it again. It doesn’t take
long. It goes a lot faster the second time.
79. Primary waves do not shake you up too bad, but just wait
till the love waves get here. (Look them up under
“earthquakes”.)
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]To the Reader: If you believe any part of the
above, I have some Arizona Beach land for sale at a low cost.
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]
Having read it twice, here is my reply:
In Gen 3:1, we find the lowly serpent has been taken over by
Satan, one of the top Angels in Heaven. In His first statement
to any human of this world, he placed DOUBT in EVE's mind.
" .......Yea, hath God said,......."
In my opinion, this is what this whole article is doing, placing
DOUBT on the WORD of GOD!
Blade
#Post#: 16334--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3. Genesis Study cntd...
By: patrick jane Date: August 16, 2020, 9:29 am
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good thread
#Post#: 18581--------------------------------------------------
Re: 3. Genesis Study cntd...
By: patrick jane Date: October 9, 2020, 7:46 am
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[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=460.msg16334#msg16334
date=1597588176]
good thread
[/quote]Bunny Bread🐰
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