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DIR Return to: Biblical Pre-Conception Existence Theology (PCE)
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#Post#: 32265--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest58 Date: June 24, 2021, 11:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=442.msg32257#msg32257
date=1624497784][font=Verdana]I have looked into the PCE
Theology and have come to the conclusion that there are many
places where the Word of GOD must be removed, changed or in some
cases Added to make this Theology work.[/font]
Blade
[/quote]
It is my conclusion that PCE is truer to the actual words of
scripture than the orthodolgically changed words, changed for
eisegetical reasons with examples as this last few day posting
contains one or two. Did discussion arise over them? Was I
challenged over my use of the words all the sons of GOD as
written and not angels given by interpretation in Job 38:7
What is different in PCE is the interpretation of the meaning of
the words, and their intent.
#Post#: 32266--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest125 Date: June 24, 2021, 3:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=442.msg32189#msg32189
date=1624468845]
[quote author=Mr E link=topic=442.msg32184#msg32184
date=1624463892] Whenever I hear someone tell me that they've
held this or that position for some forty years, naturally a red
flag goes up. If you don't know anything more today than you
knew 40 years ago, it's unlikely you'll accept anything new.
[/quote] New? [font=Verdana]What new doctrine are you trying to
teach me??? I haven't seen it yet so, ummmm. . .[/font]
You don't know me well enough for this yet. I did not tell the
whole story because you scolded me for dumping too much into one
post.
8 or 9 years ago I started to engage people on Christian forums.
The atheists worked me over pretty good, forcing me to seek the
Spirit on the best probable understanding of reality that they
could understand even if they could not accept it. This
understanding I bounced off the Christian community and of
course hit the stone wall of long held traditions and orthodox
belief held for hundreds of years, not just 40.
The pot is speaking out of turn, as my understanding has
deepened greatly from the Christian input over these last 8
years.
[/quote]
Ted, you are right in saying we don't know each other well. -
And I happen to agree with your experience concerning Christians
who think all of their own ideas are settled science... ahem...
theology. Most often with all kinds of scriptures to "imply"
things that they insist are stated. So I do understand both
your frustration and reluctance or hesitation to engage folks.
You'll find me more likely to listen than some. I actually
think you are kind of on the right track, by degrees.
#Post#: 32274--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest69 Date: June 24, 2021, 4:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Genesis 2 ESV
(1) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the
host of them.
(2) And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had
done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he
had done.
(3) So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on
it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.
The above is scripture that has been used to support the PCE
theology to imply that every host of heaven and earth already
existed by the 7th day.
This one also is used:
Hebrews 7 ESV
(9) One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes,
paid tithes through Abraham,
(10) for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when
Melchizedek met him.
Implying that Levi existed before he was born and therefore he
also gave tithes to Melchiedek because he was already a part of
(so to speak) of Abraham when the tithes were given.
#Post#: 32275--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: patrick jane Date: June 24, 2021, 4:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
This guy Rudolf Steiner with his Anthroposophy, that I've been
listening to talks about existence before creation yet he also
talks about multiple earthly lives and lives between death and
new life. I try to stay open minded as I don't just believe
anything presented but I try to "mine" the information for
valuable insight. I have the time to do this and I thank God.
He also talks very much about Christ and those who oppose Him,
with detailed explanations for Christ's death at Golgotha. I
lose interest during certain parts of the lectures but I'm
enjoying the stimulation and the creative/intuitive juices it
stirs in me. I just find it fascinating that this guy was
speaking exactly 100 years ago.
#Post#: 32278--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest125 Date: June 24, 2021, 5:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=442.msg32275#msg32275
date=1624570805]
This guy Rudolf Steiner with his Anthroposophy, that I've been
listening to talks about existence before creation yet he also
talks about multiple earthly lives and lives between death and
new life. I try to stay open minded as I don't just believe
anything presented but I try to "mine" the information for
valuable insight. I have the time to do this and I thank God.
He also talks very much about Christ and those who oppose Him,
with detailed explanations for Christ's death at Golgotha. I
lose interest during certain parts of the lectures but I'm
enjoying the stimulation and the creative/intuitive juices it
stirs in me. I just find it fascinating that this guy was
speaking exactly 100 years ago.
[/quote]
That's a good way to approach it PJ. Open minded, but with eyes
wide open. I once had a mentor tell me- "Focus on good
things... read and learn things of value. There isn't enough
time in a day for "everything" so you have to be choosey and
choose good things."
That stuck with me. He once said-- don't waste your time on
silly things. Don't read things to simply entertain yourself.
Learn something from everything and you can.... but-- it's like
digging through a trash can looking for something good to eat.
You 'might' find something, but why bother? Go to a grocery
store instead-- they are full of good things. A library is a
grocery store for your head.
The Bereans were commended for searching the scriptures to see
if the things they were being told- 'were true.' It's a method
few employ when confronted with a new idea. Most of us
automatically think-- 'well that can't be true' because it
differs from what I already believe. -But what if you
approached new ideas like the Bereans? What if?
I think that's what they were commended for. They took a 'what
if it's true?' stance (instead of a buffalo).
#Post#: 32307--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest8 Date: June 24, 2021, 9:48 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
While I will agree with you to some extent, Interpretation using
the meaning of words as spoken by the interpreter is not the
meaning the WORD of GOD gave to us.
Blade
#Post#: 32309--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest8 Date: June 24, 2021, 9:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Tambora link=topic=442.msg32274#msg32274
date=1624570189]
Genesis 2 ESV
(1) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the
host of them.
(2) And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had
done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he
had done.
(3) So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on
it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.
The above is scripture that has been used to support the PCE
theology to imply that every host of heaven and earth already
existed by the 7th day.
This one also is used:
Hebrews 7 ESV
(9) One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes,
paid tithes through Abraham,
(10) for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when
Melchizedek met him.
Implying that Levi existed before he was born and therefore he
also gave tithes to Melchiedek because he was already a part of
(so to speak) of Abraham when the tithes were given.
[/quote]
Keep in mind that Levi was a tribe of Israel, a Priesthood
tribe. therefore the priesthood was giving ties to Melchizedek
because they are to be from Abraham.
Blade
#Post#: 32312--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest69 Date: June 25, 2021, 1:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=442.msg32309#msg32309
date=1624589674]
[quote author=Tambora link=topic=442.msg32274#msg32274
date=1624570189]
Genesis 2 ESV
(1) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the
host of them.
(2) And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had
done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he
had done.
(3) So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on
it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.
The above is scripture that has been used to support the PCE
theology to imply that every host of heaven and earth already
existed by the 7th day.
This one also is used:
Hebrews 7 ESV
(9) One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes,
paid tithes through Abraham,
(10) for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when
Melchizedek met him.
Implying that Levi existed before he was born and therefore he
also gave tithes to Melchiedek because he was already a part of
(so to speak) of Abraham when the tithes were given.
[/quote]
Keep in mind that Levi was a tribe of Israel, a Priesthood
tribe. therefore the priesthood was giving ties to Melchizedek
because they are to be from Abraham.
Blade
[/quote]Sure.
The point is that it cannot be said of Levi that he gave tithes
to Melchizedek when Abraham did unless he existed at that time
(in some form within Abraham).
#Post#: 32344--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest125 Date: June 25, 2021, 5:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Tambora link=topic=442.msg32274#msg32274
date=1624570189]
Genesis 2 ESV
(1) Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the
host of them.
(2) And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had
done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he
had done.
(3) So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on
it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation.
The above is scripture that has been used to support the PCE
theology to imply that every host of heaven and earth already
existed by the 7th day.
This one also is used:
Hebrews 7 ESV
(9) One might even say that Levi himself, who receives tithes,
paid tithes through Abraham,
(10) for he was still in the loins of his ancestor when
Melchizedek met him.
Implying that Levi existed before he was born and therefore he
also gave tithes to Melchiedek because he was already a part of
(so to speak) of Abraham when the tithes were given.
[/quote]
What is a human being.... if not-- 'a host of heaven?' And that
man who lived among the tombs? He was the host with the most.
#Post#: 32349--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
By: guest69 Date: June 25, 2021, 6:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mr E link=topic=442.msg32344#msg32344
date=1624658708]
What is a human being.... if not-- 'a host of heaven?' And that
man who lived among the tombs? He was the host with the most.
[/quote]
Great pun!
Legion.
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