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DIR Return to: Biblical Pre-Conception Existence Theology (PCE)
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#Post#: 32176--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest125
Date: June 22, 2021, 8:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Maybe it looks different on your browser PJ— here’s how it looks
on mine...
he invisible att[/size]ributes of HIS dei[/size]ty and power
were made visible that is PROVEN, by the creation of the
physical universe to all those (whomever they were) who were
watching!!
Where is there any hint that it was not us who were watching
before we were sown into our earthly bodies by either Christ or
the devil, Matt 13:36-30? ? There is not one verse in the bible
that says straight out or even hints obliquely that our
pre-conception existence is impossible.
[I chose nothing except bold from the eding menu, not my
keyboard - the editing difficulties are not made by me...so I
hope to be left alone about it and that it gets
fixed!][size=78%]
#Post#: 32177--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest8
Date: June 22, 2021, 9:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mr E link ---
>
> [quote]The Pre-Conception Existence (PCE) of the soul /
spirit. All spirits created in the image of GOD were created at
the same time BEFORE the creation of the physical universe which
we all saw, Job 38:7 and Rom 1:20.
>
--- End Quote ---
Okay- I now understand a little better where you are coming
from... you are equating 'ben elohim' (sons of God) with these
spirits who were shouting for joy when God laid the foundations
of the earth.
How about the morning stars? --From that same passage in Job it
mentions that 'the morning stars' AND the sons of God were
present. If you focus on one, you shouldn't ignore the other.
If the ben elohim sons of God are the spirit beings that later
become human beings, what then are the morning stars that were
present at the same time-- singing together during the setting
of the cornerstone and the measuring out of that foundation of
the earth?
Romans 1 says that it was through creation of the world that the
invisible became visible. Do you agree? The invisible
attributes of God became visible through creation. Don't you
think that this would hold true in the forming (within the womb)
of man? The invisible attributes of God become visible....
before I formed you in the womb, I knew you....
invisible/spiritual/united -then the invisible becomes visible
in creation.
[/quote]
Mr. E. I agree with you but also think the problem is those who
practice PCE, failure to recognize that God/Jesus home is not
of this dimension.
Their failure to place this universe we know in a different
dimension is another problem. There are adequate verses
comfirming this.
Thanks for your insight.
Blade
#Post#: 32183--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest58
Date: June 23, 2021, 10:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
>
> Mr. E. I agree with you but also think the problem is those
who practice PCE, failure to recognize that God/Jesus home is
not of this dimension.
>
> Their failure to place this universe we know in a different
dimension is another problem. There are adequate verses
comfirming this.
>
> Thanks for your insight.
>
> Blade
>
--- End Quote ---
There is nothing in PCE Theology that disagrees with any other
dimension theories.
This is the first I've heard of this concern and so I ask that
you tell me how pce conflicts with your understanding of other
dimensions because as far as I can tell, the multi-dimensional
stuff could be an easy answer to both pce and the placement of
hell, that is, the outer darkness.
#Post#: 32184--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest125
Date: June 23, 2021, 10:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I understand what you are saying Blade. Ted seems to be trying
to reconcile some Calvinist doctrine (which I know you embrace)
with his own ideas that he's calling PCE. I don't think it's a
widely held theology, at least I haven't run across what you
might call PCE churches in my travelings.
As far as Jesus goes, 'this dimension' certainly was his home
for at least a time, before returning to the Father's house and
the place that had been prepared for him. I do give Ted credit
for the effort, but he's gonna get stuck quickly unless he's
willing to consider some other angles. Whenever I hear someone
tell me that they've held this or that position for some forty
years, naturally a red flag goes up. If you don't know anything
more today than you knew 40 years ago, it's unlikely you'll
accept anything new.
#Post#: 32185--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest125
Date: June 23, 2021, 11:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ted T. link ---
>
> [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=442.msg32177#msg32177
date=1624415447]
> Mr. E. I agree with you but also think the problem is those
who practice PCE, failure to recognize that God/Jesus home is
not of this dimension.
>
> Their failure to place this universe we know in a different
dimension is another problem. There are adequate verses
comfirming this.
>
> Thanks for your insight.
>
> Blade
>
--- End Quote ---
There is nothing in PCE Theology that disagrees with any other
dimension theories.
This is the first I've heard of this concern and so I ask that
you tell me how pce conflicts with your understanding of other
dimensions because as far as I can tell, the multi-dimensional
stuff could be an easy answer to both pce and the placement of
hell, that is, the outer darkness.
[/quote]
Hi Ted-
Where did you first hear of PCE theory. Who introduced it to
you, and how?
#Post#: 32186--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest58
Date: June 23, 2021, 11:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ted T. link ---
>
> In reply 35:[quote author=Mr E]rYou wrote:
> Slow down there Sparky. One thing at a time. Also-- it would
help (since you are having technical difficulties) if you would
just forgo trying to use the font features and colors and such.
It's making your posts almost unreadable. Maybe just simplify
things and perhaps limit yourself to bolding words or using
italics for emphasis. Keep it clean Ted.
>
--- End Quote ---
which I found condescending and hostile.
In my post i told you that I used only bold, not even italics
and I DID NOT CHANGE SIZES OF ANYTHING but you persist in this
red herring.
If you can't help, please quit hassling me. I've used the report
feature to report this to management but no reply so far.
All the size changes in this paragraph of mine i copied were
chosen by the editor, not me so I mentioned I had followed your
advice explicitly which you also seem to have ignored.
--- Quote ---
> [I chose nothing except bold from the eding menu, not my
keyboard - the editing difficulties are not made by me...so I
hope to be left alone about it and that it gets fixed!]
--- End Quote ---
If you want to be helpful then please will you report this
problem to the management..
[/quote]
#Post#: 32187--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: June 23, 2021, 11:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mr E link ---
>
> Maybe it looks different on your browser PJ— here’s how it
looks on mine...
>
> he invisible att[/size]ributes of HIS dei[/size]ty and power
were made visible that is PROVEN, by the creation of the
physical universe to all those (whomever they were) who were
watching!!
>
> Where is there any hint that it was not us who were watching
before we were sown into our earthly bodies by either Christ or
the devil, Matt 13:36-30? ? There is not one verse in the bible
that says straight out or even hints obliquely that our
pre-conception existence is impossible.
>
> [I chose nothing except bold from the eding menu, not my
keyboard - the editing difficulties are not made by me...so I
hope to be left alone about it and that it gets
fixed!][size=78%]
>
--- End Quote ---
I don't know how or why this is happening. I can try reporting
this to the forum company if they can do anything.
#Post#: 32188--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest58
Date: June 23, 2021, 11:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mr E link ---
>
>
> Hi Ted-
>
> Where did you first hear of PCE theory. Who introduced it to
you, and how?
--- End Quote ---
It was in the mid 70s in a home bible study group. I learned the
basic concepts and got the list of verses. I did not stop with
the cursory verse interpretations that are so well covered by
the commentaries but then I spent three years in personal bible
study 3-4 hours a day, reading the whole bible three times as I
[/size]worked prayerfully through all three dozen plus verses,
how they relate to each other and [/size]what that implied about
realty[/size] within the fulness of scripture.
[/size]
After that I got the word in the Spirit to quit studying and
get a life! :)
#Post#: 32189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest58
Date: June 23, 2021, 12:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Mr E link ---
> Whenever I hear someone tell me that they've held this or that
position for some forty years, naturally a red flag goes up. If
you don't know anything more today than you knew 40 years ago,
it's unlikely you'll accept anything new.
>
--- End Quote ---
New? What new doctrine are you trying to teach me??? I haven't
seen it yet so, ummmm. . .
You don't know me well enough for this yet. I did not tell the
whole story because you scolded me for dumping too much into one
post.
8 or 9 years ago I started to engage people on Christian forums.
The atheists worked me over pretty good, forcing me to seek the
Spirit on the best probable understanding of reality that they
could understand even if they could not accept it. This
understanding I bounced off the Christian community and of
course hit the stone wall of long held traditions and orthodox
belief held for hundreds of years, not just 40.
The pot is speaking out of turn, as my understanding has
deepened greatly from the Christian input over these last 8
years.
#Post#: 32257--------------------------------------------------
Re: Pre-Conception Existence - an intro
DIR By: guest8
Date: June 23, 2021, 8:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Ted T. link ---
>
> [quote author=Mr E link=topic=442.msg32184#msg32184
date=1624463892] Whenever I hear someone tell me that they've
held this or that position for some forty years, naturally a red
flag goes up. If you don't know anything more today than you
knew 40 years ago, it's unlikely you'll accept anything new.
>
--- End Quote ---
New? What new doctrine are you trying to teach me??? I haven't
seen it yet so, ummmm. . .
You don't know me well enough for this yet. I did not tell the
whole story because you scolded me for dumping too much into one
post.
8 or 9 years ago I started to engage people on Christian forums.
The atheists worked me over pretty good, forcing me to seek the
Spirit on the best probable understanding of reality that they
could understand even if they could not accept it. This
understanding I bounced off the Christian community and of
course hit the stone wall of long held traditions and orthodox
belief held for hundreds of years, not just 40.
The pot is speaking out of turn, as my understanding has
deepened greatly from the Christian input over these last 8
years.
[/quote]
May I step in?
I had my dealing with Atheist as well. For a couple of years, I
debate them about the Bible. I concluded, they study hard and
listen to those before them for the information needed to
literally sluff off God's Word as nothing. It is difficult but
one cannot change from the authority of the Word of GOD....They
either hear it or they do not. That part is up to GOD and GOD
alone. we can only give the message that Jesus gave us to give
them.
I have looked into the PCE Theology and have come to the
conclusion that there are many places where the Word of GOD must
be removed, changed or in some cases Added to make this Theology
work.
The Bible is one integrated WORD consisting of 66 chapters
written by 40 writers over a period of 1500 years and author
only one---GOD>
Thank for letting me put my two cents worth in.
Blade
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