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#Post#: 4834--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest8 Date: April 8, 2019, 1:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4831#msg4831
date=1554732796]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4809#msg4809
date=1554578144]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4806#msg4806
date=1554566826]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4794#msg4794
date=1554489450]
Lori, how can we not listen to what man says about God and
scripture. Do you think that if you lived alone and stranded on
an island, never heard of God or Jesus or the Bible before ever
and then somebody dropped a Bible down. Could you read it and
"figure everything out"? I've been reading this thread and I
still don't know what your point is. What "answer" are you
looking for and please state your purpose.
Please Subscribe! Join my Free Forums for discussion, debate and
fellowship
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[/quote]Some years ago, God called me to study the word of God
not the words of man who want to tell me who they think God is.
As a result (as per this thread) I studied this passage in
Timothy and found some definite discrepancies between what it
says and what man says it says. As per one of many checks I put
on my study I want to open that understanding to challenge. So
my goal is to discuss the discrepancies I found and discuss them
in light of the totality of scripture, going off the idea that
scripture interprets scripture. I'm thinking that is never
going to happen and so maybe it's time for this discussion to be
done.
[/quote]Maybe we could start with a list. Make a numbered list
of the discrepancies between man's teaching and what the
wscripture actually says. Take them one by one verse by verse.
[/quote]thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for the time
being...maybe we can revisit it one day..
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
Lori,, you said:"I studied this passage in Timothy and found
some definite discrepancies between what it says and what man
says it says. "
Our conversations surrounded 1 TIM 2:9-15, and it's
commandment(s) of GOD to the women of today's society and the
world, on how they are to act in the (Brick and Mortar) Church.
As a teacher, would it not be better to share your
interpretations (as I have) with those who are listening. It
would be a shame to leave them hanging out there without letting
them in on your interpretation as you alluded to when you was
speaking to P.J. :" thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for
the time being...maybe we can revisit it one day.
It is your choice, but it would be a shame to waste your God
given talent?!
Either way, Our conversations have enlightened myself and I
thank you.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 4851--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: April 9, 2019, 7:42 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4834#msg4834
date=1554749602]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4831#msg4831
date=1554732796]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4809#msg4809
date=1554578144]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4806#msg4806
date=1554566826]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4794#msg4794
date=1554489450]
Lori, how can we not listen to what man says about God and
scripture. Do you think that if you lived alone and stranded on
an island, never heard of God or Jesus or the Bible before ever
and then somebody dropped a Bible down. Could you read it and
"figure everything out"? I've been reading this thread and I
still don't know what your point is. What "answer" are you
looking for and please state your purpose.
Please Subscribe! Join my Free Forums for discussion, debate and
fellowship
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[/quote]Some years ago, God called me to study the word of God
not the words of man who want to tell me who they think God is.
As a result (as per this thread) I studied this passage in
Timothy and found some definite discrepancies between what it
says and what man says it says. As per one of many checks I put
on my study I want to open that understanding to challenge. So
my goal is to discuss the discrepancies I found and discuss them
in light of the totality of scripture, going off the idea that
scripture interprets scripture. I'm thinking that is never
going to happen and so maybe it's time for this discussion to be
done.
[/quote]Maybe we could start with a list. Make a numbered list
of the discrepancies between man's teaching and what the
wscripture actually says. Take them one by one verse by verse.
[/quote]thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for the time
being...maybe we can revisit it one day..
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
Lori,, you said:"I studied this passage in Timothy and found
some definite discrepancies between what it says and what man
says it says. "
Our conversations surrounded 1 TIM 2:9-15, and it's
commandment(s) of GOD to the women of today's society and the
world, on how they are to act in the (Brick and Mortar) Church.
As a teacher, would it not be better to share your
interpretations (as I have) with those who are listening. It
would be a shame to leave them hanging out there without letting
them in on your interpretation as you alluded to when you was
speaking to P.J. :" thanks pj but I think I will let it rest for
the time being...maybe we can revisit it one day.
It is your choice, but it would be a shame to waste your God
given talent?!
Either way, Our conversations have enlightened myself and I
thank you.
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]I was trying to share what I found and what I got was
that relying on the HS to teach...allowing scripture to
interpret scripture, etc. would only lead me away from God and
His word.
Likewise, when I tried to present what I found, I was told I was
wrong and nothing was offered as a reason why....I have a whole
study done on it but it was part of a bigger study. When I take
the time to look up the study maybe I will pull out the parts
that apply to this passage alone and see if that helps. At the
moment, I am tired of being told to shut up because I am a woman
and thus I do not think I could discuss it calmly and with
Love.....in time I will be able to discuss it calmly again but
as I said, I was raised to believe that I had no right to speak
and so when someone tries to take away my God given command to
speak it sets me off. Just be patient and I will be able to
discuss it without emotions but I need a few moments.
#Post#: 4868--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest8 Date: April 10, 2019, 11:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[shadow=blue,left]Lori, thank you for your contribution to this
tread. AS I believe it is of utmost importance for everyone to
understand the WORD of GOD, I will continue posting on this
topic.
Below, I have posted a video of John MacArthur of whom was
asked:
"Dr. MacArthur, does scripture allow for women eldership as this
is the direction of some of the churches today?"
Blade[/shadow]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6YIY2MfuSQ
#Post#: 4872--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: April 11, 2019, 7:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4868#msg4868
date=1554955990]
[shadow=blue,left]Lori, thank you for your contribution to this
tread. AS I believe it is of utmost importance for everyone to
understand the WORD of GOD, I will continue posting on this
topic.
Below, I have posted a video of John MacArthur of whom was
asked:
"Dr. MacArthur, does scripture allow for women eldership as this
is the direction of some of the churches today?"
Blade[/shadow]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6YIY2MfuSQ
[/quote]This is NOT helping your cause in that I would sight
ever reason he gave for looking deeper at the
discrepancies....in fact, from this video, look at I Corinthians
11:5 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head
uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if
she were shaven.
Apparently the Timothy passage is disagreeing with the I Cor.
passage? Really? Why would they disagree with one another?
And before you answer, remember that in your video, he spoke
about how woman were not to have a ministry of prophesy...and in
context of this passage the ministry of prophecy is the same as
the men....and yet I Cor. says that when they do prophecy it is
to be done in proper manner....which is what I am suggesting
Timothy is saying...but that is another issue.
#Post#: 4875--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest8 Date: April 11, 2019, 10:25 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4872#msg4872
date=1554987352]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4868#msg4868
date=1554955990]
[shadow=blue,left]Lori, thank you for your contribution to this
tread. AS I believe it is of utmost importance for everyone to
understand the WORD of GOD, I will continue posting on this
topic.
Below, I have posted a video of John MacArthur of whom was
asked:
"Dr. MacArthur, does scripture allow for women eldership as this
is the direction of some of the churches today?"
Blade[/shadow]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6YIY2MfuSQ
[/quote]This is NOT helping your cause in that I would sight
ever reason he gave for looking deeper at the
discrepancies....in fact, from this video, look at I Corinthians
11:5 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head
uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if
she were shaven.
Apparently the Timothy passage is disagreeing with the I Cor.
passage? Really? Why would they disagree with one another?
And before you answer, remember that in your video, he spoke
about how woman were not to have a ministry of prophesy...and in
context of this passage the ministry of prophecy is the same as
the men....and yet I Cor. says that when they do prophecy it is
to be done in proper manner....which is what I am suggesting
Timothy is saying...but that is another issue.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]You said: "this is NOT helping your cause"
The only cause I have is bringing the WORD of GOD as it is
written to those that are interested!
Lori, I thought you had quit for a while. Yes, this is defiantly
nuclear, yet it needs to be brought forward, especially in this
day and time. Having said that I will offer no personal opinion.
As I read the KJV version literally, I see every 'Jot' and
'Tittle' as the Word of God. Most people today, because of
their worldview, lifestyle read the Word of God as sort of a
living document, one that enables the words written in ancient
times to morph into words that can be followed by a 'post
modern' society
I will say the words that John MacArthur spoke of are directly
from the Bible, the Word of God. God tells us what He wants from
us in very specific words just as He did to Israel those so many
years ago.
I found this ancient/centuries-old poem in one of the
articles/books I have. The words were carved in a gothic,
medieval alphabet on a towering, ornate cathedral door right in
the heart of a small town in Germany, thought to have been
written around the 16th century.
These words when translated into modern English, take the form
of a poem that is terrifying to me.
***************
You call me eternal, then do not seek me.
You call me fair, then do not love me.
You call me gracious, then do not trust me.
You call me just, then do not fear me.
You call me life, then do not choose me.
You call me light, then do not see me.
You call me Lord, then do not respect me.
You call me Master, then do not obey me.
You call me merciful, then do not thank me.
You call me mighty, then do not honor me.
You call me noble, then do not serve me.
You call me rich, then do not ask me.
You call me Savior, then do not praise me.
You call me shepherd, then do not follow me.
You call me Way, then do not walk with me.
You call me wise, then do not heed me.
You call me Son of God, then do not worship me.
When I [sentence] you, then do not blame me.
Blade
[/shadow]
#Post#: 4878--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: April 12, 2019, 8:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4875#msg4875
date=1555039552]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4872#msg4872
date=1554987352]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4868#msg4868
date=1554955990]
[shadow=blue,left]Lori, thank you for your contribution to this
tread. AS I believe it is of utmost importance for everyone to
understand the WORD of GOD, I will continue posting on this
topic.
Below, I have posted a video of John MacArthur of whom was
asked:
"Dr. MacArthur, does scripture allow for women eldership as this
is the direction of some of the churches today?"
Blade[/shadow]
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6YIY2MfuSQ
[/quote]This is NOT helping your cause in that I would sight
ever reason he gave for looking deeper at the
discrepancies....in fact, from this video, look at I Corinthians
11:5 5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head
uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if
she were shaven.
Apparently the Timothy passage is disagreeing with the I Cor.
passage? Really? Why would they disagree with one another?
And before you answer, remember that in your video, he spoke
about how woman were not to have a ministry of prophesy...and in
context of this passage the ministry of prophecy is the same as
the men....and yet I Cor. says that when they do prophecy it is
to be done in proper manner....which is what I am suggesting
Timothy is saying...but that is another issue.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]You said: "this is NOT helping your cause"
The only cause I have is bringing the WORD of GOD as it is
written to those that are interested!
Lori, I thought you had quit for a while. Yes, this is defiantly
nuclear, yet it needs to be brought forward, especially in this
day and time. Having said that I will offer no personal opinion.
As I read the KJV version literally, I see every 'Jot' and
'Tittle' as the Word of God. Most people today, because of
their worldview, lifestyle read the Word of God as sort of a
living document, one that enables the words written in ancient
times to morph into words that can be followed by a 'post
modern' society
I will say the words that John MacArthur spoke of are directly
from the Bible, the Word of God. God tells us what He wants from
us in very specific words just as He did to Israel those so many
years ago.
I found this ancient/centuries-old poem in one of the
articles/books I have. The words were carved in a gothic,
medieval alphabet on a towering, ornate cathedral door right in
the heart of a small town in Germany, thought to have been
written around the 16th century.
These words when translated into modern English, take the form
of a poem that is terrifying to me.
***************
You call me eternal, then do not seek me.
You call me fair, then do not love me.
You call me gracious, then do not trust me.
You call me just, then do not fear me.
You call me life, then do not choose me.
You call me light, then do not see me.
You call me Lord, then do not respect me.
You call me Master, then do not obey me.
You call me merciful, then do not thank me.
You call me mighty, then do not honor me.
You call me noble, then do not serve me.
You call me rich, then do not ask me.
You call me Savior, then do not praise me.
You call me shepherd, then do not follow me.
You call me Way, then do not walk with me.
You call me wise, then do not heed me.
You call me Son of God, then do not worship me.
When I [sentence] you, then do not blame me.
Blade
[/shadow]
[/quote]Actually I like the poem...I have often wondered why
people follow worldly teachers rather than the Living God...but
then again that seems to be what you are doing in that you push
MacArthur rather than discussing with me the disagreements the
Bible poses to what he teaches....for example..I presented a
passage that talks about when woman prophecy which is the same
prophesying the men are doing and all you did was some veiled
attempt to shame me into disagreeing with MacArthur.....you can
follow him if you want, but I want to follow the Living God
which is why I brought this up at all.
#Post#: 4880--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: April 12, 2019, 8:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Let me tell you a funny story about MacArthur's teaching on this
matter.
Some time ago, my husband was pastoring a church in which two of
the women were trying to run the church. They were gossips,
controlling, etc. woman that obviously were NOT living according
to a yielded life to the living God. They however, used
MacArthur's teaching on the subject of woman to try to silence
not only other woman who could teach them how to be a woman of
God but to try to silence the men as well so that they could
continue on their agenda.
What I am proposing the passage means would not be very easy to
use in the same way. In fact, what I am proposing it is
teaching is that all people, both men and woman alike are to
live in quietness and peace (in their behaviors) waiting
patiently for God to open the doors He wants opened. That would
have instantly disqualified these two ladies....from trying to
run the church, but because they used MacArthur's teaching they
could weasel their way into various positions and in doing so
take over the church.
Now I am NOT advocating that is a reason to accept how I
understand the passage...please don't make the mistake of
assuming that is what I am saying....what I am saying however,
is that I believe that truth always holds up to challenge, so
that would be just one more checks and balances to add to our
careful study of the discrepensies between the teaching and the
text.
#Post#: 4881--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: patrick jane Date: April 12, 2019, 9:33 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4880#msg4880
date=1555076748]
Let me tell you a funny story about MacArthur's teaching on this
matter.
Some time ago, my husband was pastoring a church in which two of
the women were trying to run the church. They were gossips,
controlling, etc. woman that obviously were NOT living according
to a yielded life to the living God. They however, used
MacArthur's teaching on the subject of woman to try to silence
not only other woman who could teach them how to be a woman of
God but to try to silence the men as well so that they could
continue on their agenda.
What I am proposing the passage means would not be very easy to
use in the same way. In fact, what I am proposing it is
teaching is that all people, both men and woman alike are to
live in quietness and peace (in their behaviors) waiting
patiently for God to open the doors He wants opened. That would
have instantly disqualified these two ladies....from trying to
run the church, but because they used MacArthur's teaching they
could weasel their way into various positions and in doing so
take over the church.
Now I am NOT advocating that is a reason to accept how I
understand the passage...please don't make the mistake of
assuming that is what I am saying....what I am saying however,
is that I believe that truth always holds up to challenge, so
that would be just one more checks and balances to add to our
careful study of the discrepensies between the teaching and the
text.
[/quote]I thought I basically said the same things about the
verses.
#Post#: 4882--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: April 12, 2019, 10:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4881#msg4881
date=1555079588]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4880#msg4880
date=1555076748]
Let me tell you a funny story about MacArthur's teaching on this
matter.
Some time ago, my husband was pastoring a church in which two of
the women were trying to run the church. They were gossips,
controlling, etc. woman that obviously were NOT living according
to a yielded life to the living God. They however, used
MacArthur's teaching on the subject of woman to try to silence
not only other woman who could teach them how to be a woman of
God but to try to silence the men as well so that they could
continue on their agenda.
What I am proposing the passage means would not be very easy to
use in the same way. In fact, what I am proposing it is
teaching is that all people, both men and woman alike are to
live in quietness and peace (in their behaviors) waiting
patiently for God to open the doors He wants opened. That would
have instantly disqualified these two ladies....from trying to
run the church, but because they used MacArthur's teaching they
could weasel their way into various positions and in doing so
take over the church.
Now I am NOT advocating that is a reason to accept how I
understand the passage...please don't make the mistake of
assuming that is what I am saying....what I am saying however,
is that I believe that truth always holds up to challenge, so
that would be just one more checks and balances to add to our
careful study of the discrepancies between the teaching and the
text.
[/quote]I thought I basically said the same things about the
verses.
[/quote]I was just hoping for a discussion about where we get
that understanding verse the traditional understanding like
MacArthur...I'm about study of scripture....
#Post#: 4883--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: patrick jane Date: April 12, 2019, 10:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4882#msg4882
date=1555081725]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4881#msg4881
date=1555079588]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4880#msg4880
date=1555076748]
Let me tell you a funny story about MacArthur's teaching on this
matter.
Some time ago, my husband was pastoring a church in which two of
the women were trying to run the church. They were gossips,
controlling, etc. woman that obviously were NOT living according
to a yielded life to the living God. They however, used
MacArthur's teaching on the subject of woman to try to silence
not only other woman who could teach them how to be a woman of
God but to try to silence the men as well so that they could
continue on their agenda.
What I am proposing the passage means would not be very easy to
use in the same way. In fact, what I am proposing it is
teaching is that all people, both men and woman alike are to
live in quietness and peace (in their behaviors) waiting
patiently for God to open the doors He wants opened. That would
have instantly disqualified these two ladies....from trying to
run the church, but because they used MacArthur's teaching they
could weasel their way into various positions and in doing so
take over the church.
Now I am NOT advocating that is a reason to accept how I
understand the passage...please don't make the mistake of
assuming that is what I am saying....what I am saying however,
is that I believe that truth always holds up to challenge, so
that would be just one more checks and balances to add to our
careful study of the discrepancies between the teaching and the
text.
[/quote]I thought I basically said the same things about the
verses.
[/quote]I was just hoping for a discussion about where we get
that understanding verse the traditional understanding like
MacArthur...I'm about study of scripture....
[/quote]I think we get that authority and power from the Holy
Spirit. Our conscience as well. Discernment and testing the
spirits.
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