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#Post#: 6118--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: guest24
Date: June 5, 2019, 9:44 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Something has been bothering me about this discussion.
As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will
talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...
We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives
while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He
wants for them.
Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does
NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless
of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and
if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we
got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...
Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that we
cannot accept God's sovereignty? And yes, that obviously
disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that
is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way
into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.
Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that we
might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the teaching
wrong....how sad.
#Post#: 6120--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: June 5, 2019, 12:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Lori Bolinger link ---
>
> Something has been bothering me about this discussion.
>
> As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will
talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...
>
> We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives
while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He
wants for them.
>
> Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does
NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless
of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and
if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we
got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...
>
> Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that
we cannot accept God's sovereignty? And yes, that obviously
disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that
is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way
into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.
>
> Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that
we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the
teaching wrong....how sad.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, I agree with you.
#Post#: 6129--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: guest8
Date: June 5, 2019, 2:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> [quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg6118#msg6118
date=1559745875]
> Something has been bothering me about this discussion.
>
> As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will
talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...
>
> We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives
while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He
wants for them.
>
> Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does
NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless
of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and
if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we
got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...
>
> Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that
we cannot accept God's sovereignty? And yes, that obviously
disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that
is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way
into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.
>
> Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that
we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the
teaching wrong....how sad.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, I agree with you.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]What I find sad is questioning of the
Sovereignty of GOD. It is above questioning in any case!
God will not open the door for women in the church (Brick and
Mortar) for leadership roles other than those His teachings
already recognizes in the Bible (KJV), His WORD!
What we are seeing is the manifestation of mankind's sovereignty
take precedent over God's Sovereignty in this post-modern age.
So-Sad
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 6139--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: guest24
Date: June 6, 2019, 8:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
>
> [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg6120#msg6120
date=1559754018]
> [quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg6118#msg6118
date=1559745875]
> Something has been bothering me about this discussion.
>
> As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will
talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...
>
> We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives
while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He
wants for them.
>
> Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does
NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless
of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and
if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we
got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...
>
> Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that
we cannot accept God's sovereignty? And yes, that obviously
disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that
is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way
into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.
>
> Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that
we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the
teaching wrong....how sad.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, I agree with you.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]What I find sad is questioning of the
Sovereignty of GOD. It is above questioning in any case!
God will not open the door for women in the church (Brick and
Mortar) for leadership roles other than those His teachings
already recognizes in the Bible (KJV), His WORD!
What we are seeing is the manifestation of mankind's sovereignty
take precedent over God's Sovereignty in this post-modern age.
So-Sad
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]If you really believe what you say here, then you should
have absolutely no problem with the understanding I found when I
studied the passage and yet you are so afraid of it that you
won't even look it over and show me where you think I went
wrong....why the fear?
#Post#: 6141--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: guest8
Date: June 6, 2019, 8:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Lori Bolinger link ---
>
> [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg6129#msg6129
date=1559764660]
> [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg6120#msg6120
date=1559754018]
> [quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg6118#msg6118
date=1559745875]
> Something has been bothering me about this discussion.
>
> As I understand the passage as per my study that no one will
talk to me about, the summary of the passage is this...
>
> We (both men and woman) are to live quiet and peaceful lives
while waiting for God to open the doors of ministry that He
wants for them.
>
> Now, if we understand God to be sovereign, this teaching does
NOTHING at all to destroy the traditional understanding unless
of course God opens the door for women to be in leadership and
if God opens the door for woman in leadership, then either we
got the teaching wrong, or God is NOT sovereign...
>
> Are we so afraid that we are wrong in our understanding that
we cannot accept God's sovereignty? And yes, that obviously
disqualifies those that push their way into leadership but that
is the point of the passage as I understand it, pushing your way
into leadership, or usurping your authority is NOT allowed.
>
> Oh well, either God isn't sovereign or we are so afraid that
we might be wrong that we can't even consider we got the
teaching wrong....how sad.
>
--- End Quote ---
Well, I agree with you.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]What I find sad is questioning of the
Sovereignty of GOD. It is above questioning in any case!
God will not open the door for women in the church (Brick and
Mortar) for leadership roles other than those His teachings
already recognizes in the Bible (KJV), His WORD!
What we are seeing is the manifestation of mankind's sovereignty
take precedent over God's Sovereignty in this post-modern age.
So-Sad
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]If you really believe what you say here, then you should
have absolutely no problem with the understanding I found when I
studied the passage and yet you are so afraid of it that you
won't even look it over and show me where you think I went
wrong....why the fear?
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Lori....I did look at it and there was nothing
there..If I remember correctly, you were trying to fit the two
churches together so that the equality in one of them, Spiritual
Church (Body/Bride of Christ) could also be used in the Brick
and Mortar Church here on earth. This cannot be.
And something I think you are missing.... It is not a question
of equality. God gave Man a role to play while on this earth and
He also gave woman a
role while she was on this earth. One complements the other from
both perspectives. The role for the Man was the
administration/shepard of the Church here on earth. The role for
the woman was motherhood and the teaching of young women and
children.
Nothing was said about the separation on Man and Woman in
society outside of the church. So, those women that stay within
the limits of the church, will show a different lifestyle that
other women in the world.
Is this bad or good....Only GOD knows?
I have and never will intend to hurt you or any woman. However,
I will tell them like it is. It is the Lord's Law not mine. His
Words are very emphatic about these commandments.
Have a good day.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 6149--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: guest24
Date: June 7, 2019, 7:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Lori....I did look at it and there was nothing there..If I
remember correctly, you were trying to fit the two churches
together so that the equality in one of them, Spiritual Church
(Body/Bride of Christ) could also be used in the Brick and
Mortar Church here on earth. This cannot be. [/quote] then you
didn't read the study which I suspected...
--- Quote ---
>
>
> And something I think you are missing.... It is not a question
of equality. God gave Man a role to play while on this earth and
He also gave woman a
> role while she was on this earth. One complements the other
from both perspectives. The role for the Man was the
administration/shepard of the Church here on earth. The role for
the woman was motherhood and the teaching of young women and
children.
--- End Quote ---
The study said absolutely nothing at all about equality.....you
really should address the study I presented rather than try to
inflate your issues with modern lib movement onto me and my
study.
--- Quote ---
>
>
> Nothing was said about the separation on Man and Woman in
society outside of the church. So, those women that stay within
the limits of the church, will show a different lifestyle that
other women in the world.
--- End Quote ---
you still haven't shown that in the passage nor have you
addressed the study I presented.
--- Quote ---
>
> Is this bad or good....Only GOD knows?
--- End Quote ---
as per my recent posts, the understanding I have of the passage
does nothing to question your understanding as LONG AS GOD
HIMSELF keeps woman from leadership....so again, what is your
fear about?
--- Quote ---
>
>
> I have and never will intend to hurt you or any woman.
However, I will tell them like it is. It is the Lord's Law not
mine. His Words are very emphatic about these commandments.
--- End Quote ---
you have NOT shown it to be God's law until you show where my
study went wrong....which you haven't even addressed my study at
all yet [quote]
Since you obviously didn't even look at the study, here it is
again.....Here are my notes from a bigger study on the role of
woman.....it probably leaves out some important things since I
am trying to pick through it to only address the Timothy
passage. The whole study looks at submission too and what it
means not only that but what Love looks like in all
relationships and it has a very heavy lean on the marriage
relationship/the Church's relationship as the bride of Christ.
I don't believe we can talk about women submitting to their
husbands, without also touching on I Timothy 2:12 and I
Corinthians 14:34. Notice that in Titus, woman are to teach
what is good, and then in Timothy and Corinthians, they are told
not to teach. This then either becomes a contradiction in
Paul's teaching, or it is necessary to take a bit deeper look
into Timothy and Corinthians. The words here for teach and
keeping silent, mirror the teaching in Titus. In Timothy, the
woman is told to not teach by usurping authority over the man.
This usurping is one who with his own hand kills another or
self, acts on his own authority, is the absolute master.
(Thayer's Lexicon) If we read the text this way, then the
teaching is in fact consistent with Titus, a woman can teach,
but only with the authority given her by God, not an authority
she forces upon others. (Mark 1:27; II Corinthians 2:17; I
Thessalonians 2:4; Titus 2:15; I Peter 4:11) Now keep in mind,
that woman were just given the power to be heirs, that is equals
with men, this is a new power a new authority they do not know
how to deal with, a teaching such as this would be very
beneficial to woman and is also consistent with Galatians 3:18
(NIV) There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free,
nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ
Jesus. Likewise, in both passages, the command to keep silent is
a word used to refer to a quietness of spirit, that is to keep
the peace, don't stir trouble, meekness. Now go back to I Peter
3:4 (NIV) Rather, it should be that of your inner self, the
unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is of great
worth in God’s sight. Soon, we will look into the woman of
noble character in Proverbs 31 and discover this theme, of a
woman having authority, being strong and business like, working
as equals along with men, but using that authority only with a
quiet and gentle spirit is part of both Old Testament and New
Testament teaching.
As I review this, it doesn't talk about the men and the likewise
in the men which is also consistent with what I understand it is
saying based on this study....have a look at how men with
authority are to behave and compare that to what I see here
about woman....I Timothy 2 8 I will therefore that men pray
every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest
apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided
hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good
works.
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority
over the man, but to be in silence.
They are to do so with lifting up holy hands, without wrath and
doubting...IN THE SAME WAY WOMEN...how can woman do it the same
way if they are NOT to do it at all?
#Post#: 6675--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: June 29, 2019, 11:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good thread guys and gals.
#Post#: 6932--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: July 11, 2019, 5:46 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Good thread guys and gals.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed.
#Post#: 18192--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: October 2, 2020, 11:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg6675#msg6675
date=1561824276]
> Good thread guys and gals.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed.
[/quote] ;D
#Post#: 30250--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: May 27, 2021, 4:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg6932#msg6932
date=1562842008]
> [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg6675#msg6675
date=1561824276]
> Good thread guys and gals.
>
--- End Quote ---
Indeed.
[/quote] ;D
[/quote] :D
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