DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
<
form action=&amp
;amp;amp;quot;https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; method=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;p
ost&
quot; target=&am
p;amp;amp;quot;_top&
amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;input type=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hidden&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; name=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;cmd&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; value=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot
;_s-xclick&a
mp;amp;quot;&amp
;amp;amp;gt; &am
p;amp;amp;lt;input type=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hidden&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; name=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hosted_button_id&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; val
ue=&
quot;DKL7ADEKRVUBL&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;input type=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;image&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; src=&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;https://www.payp
alobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; border=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;0&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; nam
e=&q
uot;submit&a
mp;amp;quot; alt=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;quot;PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!
&quo
t;&g
t; &
lt;img alt=&
amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;quot; border=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;0&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; src=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;https://www.paypalobjects.com
/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; width=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;1&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; height=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;1&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/form&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;
HTML https://3169.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Christian Threads
*****************************************************
#Post#: 4294--------------------------------------------------
The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: March 6, 2019, 8:55 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I do not want to talk about what you all think I Timothy 2:12
But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over
the man, but to be in silence....is really saying...that
discussion is an old one and I have found after careful study of
the passage that only a small handful of people really get what
it is teaching. However, I would like to talk about what the
traditional understanding of I Timothy 2:12 results in when it
comes to woman in Christ.
Some background...a few years ago, some things were going on in
our lives and the result was that I felt God was telling me to
take a traditional understanding of I Timothy 2:12 then listen
to what He was teaching me about it. The result was that I
discovered that the traditional understanding is very dangerous
to woman in the church.
To start this discussion about what some of the dangers are, I
will offer up a few that I learned.
1. To demand that woman keep silent in church removes them from
the body....I Corinthians 12:27
2. To demand woman to keep silent quenches what the HS wants to
do in the body of believers...1 Thessalonians 5:19
3. To demand woman to keep silent quenches their testimony of
what God has and is doing...in essence silencing the testimony
of Christ to the world....1 Peter 3:15
4. To demand woman to keep silent removes some wonderful wisdom
from God...James 1:5
5. To demand woman to keep silent is to dismiss
scripture...Galatians 3:28-29
This is just a beginning list and offers a different perspective
of why the traditional interpretation of this passage is flawed.
#Post#: 4299--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest17 Date: March 6, 2019, 6:09 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I believe the scriptures speak of women who didn't keep silent.
There are also examples in the Old Testament.
Luke 2:36 And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of
Phanuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was advanced in years,
having lived with her husband seven years from when she was a
virgin,
Acts 18:24And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria,
an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus.
25This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being
fervent in the spirit, he spoke and taught diligently the things
of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John.
26And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when
Aquila and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and
expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.
Acts 21:8And the next day we that were of Paul's company
departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house
of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven; and abode
with him.
9And the same man had four daughters, virgins, who did prophesy.
Philippians 4:3 Yes, I ask you also, true companion, help these
women, who have labored side by side with me in the gospel
together with Clement and the rest of my fellow workers, whose
names are in the book of life.
Romans 16:1-2 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of
the church in Cenchreae. 2I ask you to receive her in the LORD
in a way worthy of his people and to give her any help she may
need from you, for she has been the benefactor of many people,
including me.
#Post#: 4312--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: March 7, 2019, 9:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I firmly believe that scripture interprets
scripture....therefore if the traditional understanding of the
passage cannot fit into the totality of scripture then the
interpretation is flawed and needs to be reviewed.
#Post#: 4313--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: patrick jane Date: March 7, 2019, 10:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4312#msg4312
date=1551971629]
I firmly believe that scripture interprets
scripture....therefore if the traditional understanding of the
passage cannot fit into the totality of scripture then the
interpretation is flawed and needs to be reviewed.
[/quote]Have you heard of the Biblical scholars believing that
many of the church instructions fro Paul were NOT written by
Paul but were added centuries later?
#Post#: 4315--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: March 7, 2019, 11:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4313#msg4313
date=1551974511]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4312#msg4312
date=1551971629]
I firmly believe that scripture interprets
scripture....therefore if the traditional understanding of the
passage cannot fit into the totality of scripture then the
interpretation is flawed and needs to be reviewed.
[/quote]Have you heard of the Biblical scholars believing that
many of the church instructions fro Paul were NOT written by
Paul but were added centuries later?
[/quote]I've heard a lot of excuses but I don't recall hearing
that one. When I did an in depth study into it, I was amazed at
how simple it seems...short version...Don't force your new found
freedom on the church but rather wait for ME to open the doors
for you.
#Post#: 4328--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest8 Date: March 7, 2019, 7:11 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4315#msg4315
date=1551979453]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4313#msg4313
date=1551974511]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4312#msg4312
date=1551971629]
I firmly believe that scripture interprets
scripture....therefore if the traditional understanding of the
passage cannot fit into the totality of scripture then the
interpretation is flawed and needs to be reviewed.
[/quote]Have you heard of the Biblical scholars believing that
many of the church instructions fro Paul were NOT written by
Paul but were added centuries later?
[/quote]I've heard a lot of excuses but I don't recall hearing
that one. When I did an in depth study into it, I was amazed at
how simple it seems...short version...Don't force your new found
freedom on the church but rather wait for ME to open the doors
for you.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Hi Lori..... Was wondering what is your
interpretation of the "traditional understanding" of the
scriptures of 1 Tim 2.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 4341--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: March 8, 2019, 9:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4328#msg4328
date=1552007481]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4315#msg4315
date=1551979453]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4313#msg4313
date=1551974511]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4312#msg4312
date=1551971629]
I firmly believe that scripture interprets
scripture....therefore if the traditional understanding of the
passage cannot fit into the totality of scripture then the
interpretation is flawed and needs to be reviewed.
[/quote]Have you heard of the Biblical scholars believing that
many of the church instructions fro Paul were NOT written by
Paul but were added centuries later?
[/quote]I've heard a lot of excuses but I don't recall hearing
that one. When I did an in depth study into it, I was amazed at
how simple it seems...short version...Don't force your new found
freedom on the church but rather wait for ME to open the doors
for you.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Hi Lori..... Was wondering what is your
interpretation of the "traditional understanding" of the
scriptures of 1 Tim 2.
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]the traditional understanding makes woman subservient to
men and requires women to not speak or teach and pretends that
they cannot know anything about scripture and God. In fact,
some go so far (not all) as to claim that Gen. says the woman
will want her husbands authority, that women cannot study
scripture for themselves, and that their salvation is through
their husband not through Christ. There are of course extremes
but the basic traditional teaching says that woman cannot have a
say in the church. In fact, I was once told that I couldn't
study scripture because I might accidently teach a man something
he doesn't know which would violate that scripture about woman
keeping silent in church. Basically, it is a method of keeping
men in control.
#Post#: 4346--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: patrick jane Date: March 8, 2019, 9:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4341#msg4341
date=1552057323]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4328#msg4328
date=1552007481]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4315#msg4315
date=1551979453]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4313#msg4313
date=1551974511]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4312#msg4312
date=1551971629]
I firmly believe that scripture interprets
scripture....therefore if the traditional understanding of the
passage cannot fit into the totality of scripture then the
interpretation is flawed and needs to be reviewed.
[/quote]Have you heard of the Biblical scholars believing that
many of the church instructions fro Paul were NOT written by
Paul but were added centuries later?
[/quote]I've heard a lot of excuses but I don't recall hearing
that one. When I did an in depth study into it, I was amazed at
how simple it seems...short version...Don't force your new found
freedom on the church but rather wait for ME to open the doors
for you.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Hi Lori..... Was wondering what is your
interpretation of the "traditional understanding" of the
scriptures of 1 Tim 2.
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]the traditional understanding makes woman subservient to
men and requires women to not speak or teach and pretends that
they cannot know anything about scripture and God. In fact,
some go so far (not all) as to claim that Gen. says the woman
will want her husbands authority, that women cannot study
scripture for themselves, and that their salvation is through
their husband not through Christ. There are of course extremes
but the basic traditional teaching says that woman cannot have a
say in the church. In fact, I was once told that I couldn't
study scripture because I might accidently teach a man something
he doesn't know which would violate that scripture about woman
keeping silent in church. Basically, it is a method of keeping
men in control.
[/quote]I believe strongly that women can teach children and
adults scripture, meaning and interpretation and doctrine in
everyday life. Personally, I wouldn't have a woman as my pastor
but that's because it's what I'm used to. I would rather hear a
man preach. However on forums such as this it's an overall
learning experience because everyone is anonymous. Women have
wisdom and different perspectives than men that should embraced
and appreciated.
#Post#: 4347--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest24 Date: March 8, 2019, 10:12 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4346#msg4346
date=1552058698]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4341#msg4341
date=1552057323]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4328#msg4328
date=1552007481]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4315#msg4315
date=1551979453]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4313#msg4313
date=1551974511]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4312#msg4312
date=1551971629]
I firmly believe that scripture interprets
scripture....therefore if the traditional understanding of the
passage cannot fit into the totality of scripture then the
interpretation is flawed and needs to be reviewed.
[/quote]Have you heard of the Biblical scholars believing that
many of the church instructions fro Paul were NOT written by
Paul but were added centuries later?
[/quote]I've heard a lot of excuses but I don't recall hearing
that one. When I did an in depth study into it, I was amazed at
how simple it seems...short version...Don't force your new found
freedom on the church but rather wait for ME to open the doors
for you.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Hi Lori..... Was wondering what is your
interpretation of the "traditional understanding" of the
scriptures of 1 Tim 2.
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]the traditional understanding makes woman subservient to
men and requires women to not speak or teach and pretends that
they cannot know anything about scripture and God. In fact,
some go so far (not all) as to claim that Gen. says the woman
will want her husbands authority, that women cannot study
scripture for themselves, and that their salvation is through
their husband not through Christ. There are of course extremes
but the basic traditional teaching says that woman cannot have a
say in the church. In fact, I was once told that I couldn't
study scripture because I might accidently teach a man something
he doesn't know which would violate that scripture about woman
keeping silent in church. Basically, it is a method of keeping
men in control.
[/quote]I believe strongly that women can teach children and
adults scripture, meaning and interpretation and doctrine in
everyday life. Personally, I wouldn't have a woman as my pastor
but that's because it's what I'm used to. I would rather hear a
man preach. However on forums such as this it's an overall
learning experience because everyone is anonymous. Women have
wisdom and different perspectives than men that should embraced
and appreciated.
[/quote]It's interesting you say that about woman
preachers...personally I find nothing in scripture against it,
however, the only woman pastor I have had experience to was
horrible!!!! and so it has pretty much turned me off of woman as
clergy. It shows the importance of men or woman truly being
called by God not just claim they are.
#Post#: 4480--------------------------------------------------
Re: The dangers of woman keeping silent...
By: guest8 Date: March 18, 2019, 1:39 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4347#msg4347
date=1552061560]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4346#msg4346
date=1552058698]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4341#msg4341
date=1552057323]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=379.msg4328#msg4328
date=1552007481]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4315#msg4315
date=1551979453]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=379.msg4313#msg4313
date=1551974511]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=379.msg4312#msg4312
date=1551971629]
I firmly believe that scripture interprets
scripture....therefore if the traditional understanding of the
passage cannot fit into the totality of scripture then the
interpretation is flawed and needs to be reviewed.
[/quote]Have you heard of the Biblical scholars believing that
many of the church instructions fro Paul were NOT written by
Paul but were added centuries later?
[/quote]I've heard a lot of excuses but I don't recall hearing
that one. When I did an in depth study into it, I was amazed at
how simple it seems...short version...Don't force your new found
freedom on the church but rather wait for ME to open the doors
for you.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Hi Lori..... Was wondering what is your
interpretation of the "traditional understanding" of the
scriptures of 1 Tim 2.
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]the traditional understanding makes woman subservient to
men and requires women to not speak or teach and pretends that
they cannot know anything about scripture and God. In fact,
some go so far (not all) as to claim that Gen. says the woman
will want her husbands authority, that women cannot study
scripture for themselves, and that their salvation is through
their husband not through Christ. There are of course extremes
but the basic traditional teaching says that woman cannot have a
say in the church. In fact, I was once told that I couldn't
study scripture because I might accidently teach a man something
he doesn't know which would violate that scripture about woman
keeping silent in church. Basically, it is a method of keeping
men in control.
[/quote]I believe strongly that women can teach children and
adults scripture, meaning and interpretation and doctrine in
everyday life. Personally, I wouldn't have a woman as my pastor
but that's because it's what I'm used to. I would rather hear a
man preach. However on forums such as this it's an overall
learning experience because everyone is anonymous. Women have
wisdom and different perspectives than men that should embraced
and appreciated.
[/quote]It's interesting you say that about woman
preachers...personally I find nothing in scripture against it,
however, the only woman pastor I have had experience to was
horrible!!!! and so it has pretty much turned me off of woman as
clergy. It shows the importance of men or woman truly being
called by God not just claim they are.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Lori, it has taken me some time to get back to
you on this subject. As a man, I realize it is a sensitive
subject but also a simple subject that has been taken out of
context and blown out of shape in this day and age.
I know you know what I am about to say so please bare with me.
Also, I am a firm believer that all the Words of Paul's epistle
(down to the last Yot & Title) is that of Jesus Christ.
1 Timothy was an epistle of Paul to a young Timothy who had
taken over the reigns of the Baby Christian Church at Ephesus.
Please consider the times and what was going on. In Chapter 1,
Paul is telling Timothy how to be a good pastor and how to
control the those causing trouble in the church.
In Chapter 2:1-3.. Paul writes in the first three verses that
men are suppose to do the Prayers, etc. in PUBLIC.
Then in 1 Tim 2:4-8.. we see Paul is talking about the men
(Preachers) and What they are supposed to be (saved and believe
in the truth (Gospel of Jesus Christ)). They are supposed to
realize that Jesus is the mediator between man and His father
and NOT a man is a mediator to GOD.
The Paul in verses 8-15. give the directions for women in the
congregation. How they should act, dress. etc.
Then in verse 11.."Let the woman learn in silence with all
subjection." Again this is in the church. My grandfather was a
Baptist Preacher and His wife, my grandmother play the organ and
taught the children and other women. But the Silence of verse 11
is (I believe) restricted to the administration of the church.
This belief is based upon following verses.
Lori, I have been married fifty years this year and I can
proudly say I wear the pants of the family! OH,, no I heard
that.......lol.....shame on you...LOL
Yet, I can also tell you, my wife tells me what color and type
of pants to wear! lol
We work together as a team of good mules have to.
In verse 12. Paul emphasizes the woman is not to teach the
gospel to men, or try to correct the authority of man in the
church.... The silence at the end is more to point to verse 11
as verse 12 is its definition.
1 Tim 2:12"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp
authority over the man, but to be in silence."
My other set of Grandparents were godly people who never missed
a time in the church when the doors were opened. Yet, my
grandmother sang in the choir, played piano. There were a lot of
women who had plenty of things to do in the church without
having to bother with the administration of the church. Of
course their husbands did have access to the church
administration and as my wife pick the colors and type of pants
I wear, the woman has some control alibet it is in the
background.
In verse 13-14, Paul gives the reason(straight out, cannot be
said much plainer)why GOD has ruled this way.
I want to stress that in today's society, women are in all areas
of what use to be man's treehouse. I have no problem with the
women working but only if GOD has guided them to do so. WHY
would I say this?
There are a lot of women that use the workforce to NOT have
children. Some want to put off childbearing until later on in
life when finances might be better. Others put it off for party
time. As one can see the woman is exalted because of
childbearing in verse 15.
verse 15:"Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if
they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."
I have got to say that people have lost their fear of GOD. By
losing that fear of GOD, we see that the commands of GOD are
summarily dismissed in a lot of cases. Women pastor, deacon,
elders are NOT an option in the church (according to GOD's
direct commands at Ephesus). The results have been the falling
away from the Gospel of Jesus Christ as prophesied in
2 Thes 2:3.."Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day
shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that
man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
The bottom line Lori is that silence in the church is only
limited to the administration or the authority of man. Again
this is limited to the church not life in general.
For as we see in Chapter 5:2, "Elder women are called
mothers"... Motherhood has a very special place in the heart of
Jesus Christ. No man can ever achieve that.
Chapter 3,4,5,6 are another post.
Hope this helped....Hope you have a great Monday...Lori
Blade[/shadow]
*****************************************************
DIR Next Page