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DIR Return to: Words of God - Christian Theology w/Bladerunner
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#Post#: 417--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: Sasha Date: August 15, 2018, 5:23 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=35.msg415#msg415
date=1534327728]
There's a trick to prophecy, I hope this will be a blessing.
Make Revelations fit into the prophecies of open scripture, as
in Paul and the little apocalypses of Jesus along with the OT
prophets, don't try to make the open prophecies fit into
Revelations....there is where people get tangled.
Everything WE as the church need to know is in the open
scriptures, a lot of Revs concerns the Jews.
[/quote]
Well, that is A very true statement! Zechariah echoes much of
Revelation and has some things that have already occurred, too.
Isaiah and other books landscape multiple prophecies that have
deep text that prophesies several different time periods and
such.
Well said.
#Post#: 430--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: guest8 Date: August 15, 2018, 6:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg363#msg363
date=1534206454]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg334#msg334
date=1534140344]
[quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg324#msg324
date=1534129551]
Are you the guy on TF who said the resurrection is actually a
collection of resurrections? That might explain a lot. I might
actually come to believe that. I wish I knew how to make these
threads include the post I am replying to. I have to keep
switching back and forth to see all you said. It looks to me
from reading Rev 20:4 that all those groups of people went
through Daniel's 70th week. Was that your point? I'll try to
figure out how to quote your post in my reply so I can give you
a better answer.
[/quote]
The Church does not go through Daniel's 70th week. The 24 Elders
represent them in Chapter 4 and throughout the 70th week.
All the others that were alive at its beginning lost their
heads if they believed in Jesus Christ. This includes the
144,000 .
The OT saints were dead thus not alive during daniel's 70th week
but were resurrected after the the 70th week and before the
millennium.
The beginning of the Millennium was the end of the 1st
resurrection!
The 2nd resurrection is nothing more that for those that are
unbelievers and must face the White Throne Judgement.
Blade
[/quote]
Here is the point at which we diverge. I say that the church
will go through Daniel's 70th week until wrath begins at the 7th
trumpet. Now we will begin to argue things such as when does
wrath begin, and why Daniel's 70th week includes both the church
and national Israel. I can see this discussion as if it happened
yesterday. I compare Matt 24:29-31 to 1Thess 4:13-8 and see the
exact same event in both passages. Some may say, wait, one is
for the Jews and the other is for the Church, because
dispensationalism says it must be two different events. I say
that dispensationalism is wrong on this point. I think they are
wrong on the definition of the church too. I think the church
started with Christ and the disciples during His earthly
ministry, not at Pentecoste. The church (both the Jewish and
Gentile elements) were grafted into the plan already in
operation. The Jewish believing remnant was joined by the
Samaratins, then the Gentiles. We are not separate from them.
The nation of Israel left God, He did not leave them.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.
For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe
of Benjamin.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a
remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he
seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest
were blinded
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall?
God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto
the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,
and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much
more their fulness?
You said this, "The beginning of the Millennium was the end of
the 1st resurrection!"
I completely agree with this, but it fits with pretribulation or
pre-wrath. If the church is gone before the great tribulation,
where in the world to all the saved people come from that are
beheaded etc?
[/quote]
Joe, I probably already answered this and if I did, disregard
this as it most likely a duplicate.lol You speak of the 7
trumpets as the beginning of the God's wrath? God's wrath begin
REv 6:1. Jesus referred to the last half of Daniel's week as the
Great Tribulation. Well it is only one third of the problem.
During the 6 seals, 1/4 of the population and earth (fish, etc)
will die. DUring the trumpets, 1/3 of the remaining population
and earth (fish, etc.) will die. During the final third of the
Judgements of GOD. it gives no number of dead on population but
all the fish, etc in the oceans will die. OH!, China will lose
her 200 million man army and all those who have taken the mark
of the beast will die. I will assume they will all die at the
same time. When Jesus speaks that WORD? Only those who have not
taken the mark and have survived all of God's wrath will be
left.
IF you believe in the rapture, and believe it is pre-wrath, then
look to prophecy to answer your questions? Hope this help.
Amellinnialism is Heresy. It actually calls GOD a liar! Please
don't do that route?
Blade
#Post#: 434--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: Sasha Date: August 15, 2018, 9:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=1Mind1Spirit link=topic=35.msg404#msg404
date=1534297202]
Daniels 70th week already happened.
Christ was crucified in the middle of it.
[/quote]
1Mind1Spirit
I just wanted to let ya know I’ve been called a Hairy tick
before and I think you’re awesome.
#Post#: 440--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: joechan82 Date: August 16, 2018, 10:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
* God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout
prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in
effect. especially GEn 12:3. oh, and GOD is in control, HE
left them.
*If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and
be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch
because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.
*These are people that are left behind. You probably know some
that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has
said.
the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in
multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses
will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven.
These will also Die in Christ. and the OT saints (their souls
are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves
unto life again. They too are redeemed.
Mat 24:29-31 is the 2nd coming of Jesus WITH his elect.(Notice
that all peoples of the earth see him.). 1 Thes 4:13-18 is the
Rapture and only the Church those who are alive and those who
have died in him with see him. A very small crowd. Notice He
does not come to earth but to the clouds and He Comes FOR his
ELECT. These are NOT the same.
I am sorry JOE, There was just no easy way to say it.
Blade
[/color]
[/quote]
Blade,
Don't worry about trying to say things the easy way. I
appreciate you being direct.
As to the idea of Matt:24 and 1Thes being similar, but not the
same, I look to Rev 1:4-8. Notice the clouds here too. He comes
in the clouds AND every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be
unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which
is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his
throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,
and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings
of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our
sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests
unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever
and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye
shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds
of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am
Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John wrote to the seven churches in Asia, which I believe were
literal, historical churches, just like churches are today. Look
what John tells them to look for. It is a coming of Christ with
clouds where every eye shall see him. Please keep in mind that
my main thrust in this discussion is not to convince you of my
position, but for you to see that I can hold to my beliefs and
still be a Bible believer. I consider you to be a Bible
believer.
#Post#: 441--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: joechan82 Date: August 16, 2018, 11:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Billy Evmur link=topic=35.msg414#msg414
date=1534327274]
Antichrist will have reigned, will have opposed everything
called god [that IS the great tribulation] and seated himself in
the temple declaring himself to be God, THEN the Lord descends
from heaven with a shout and destroys Antichrist...this is the
same coming of the Lord in which we meet Him in the air.
So this is the end of Antichrist not his first revealing.
The mistake [as I see it] is in equating Tribulation with Wrath
of God.
Jesus says in the little apocalypses AFTER the tribulation of
those days....they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds
with great power and glory and gather His elect....the tribes of
the earth will mourn etc. He then describes what amounts to the
wrath of God.
The same with John, the same with 2.Thess.1&2....definitely
Antichrist comes first, and with him the most horrendous
persecution ever...that IS the Great Tribulation.
[/quote]
Hello Billy,
Tribulation and wrath are definitely not the same. Calling
Daniel's 70th week "The seven years of tribulation/great
tribulation" is misleading. Controlling the lexicon controls the
argument, so I am carefull to be precise in my terms. Do you
think we differ as to when wrath begins? I bet we do. I say it
begins at the last trump, which I say is the 7th trumpet of
Revelation. Tell me what you think. Appreciate your input.
#Post#: 460--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: guest8 Date: August 16, 2018, 8:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=1Mind1Spirit link=topic=35.msg404#msg404
date=1534297202]
Daniels 70th week already happened.
Christ was crucified in the middle of it.
[/quote]
your kidding right.... Christ was crucified in 32 AD, Jerusalem
and the temple were destroyed in 70 AD.
that is a full 38 years (oh, look at this,,,the exact amount of
time Israel spent in the wilderness. Another prophecy
fulfilled.)
How did Daniel's 7oth week already happen pray tell?
Blade
#Post#: 461--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: guest8 Date: August 16, 2018, 9:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg440#msg440
date=1534434871]
* God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout
prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in
effect. especially GEn 12:3. oh, and GOD is in control, HE
left them.
*If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and
be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch
because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.
*These are people that are left behind. You probably know some
that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has
said.
the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in
multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses
will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven.
These will also Die in Christ. and the OT saints (their souls
are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves
unto life again. They too are redeemed.
Mat 24:29-31 is the 2nd coming of Jesus WITH his elect.(Notice
that all peoples of the earth see him.). 1 Thes 4:13-18 is the
Rapture and only the Church those who are alive and those who
have died in him with see him. A very small crowd. Notice He
does not come to earth but to the clouds and He Comes FOR his
ELECT. These are NOT the same.
I am sorry JOE, There was just no easy way to say it.
Blade
[/color]
[/quote]
Blade,
Don't worry about trying to say things the easy way. I
appreciate you being direct.
As to the idea of Matt:24 and 1Thes being similar, but not the
same, I look to Rev 1:4-8. Notice the clouds here too. He comes
in the clouds AND every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be
unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which
is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his
throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,
and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings
of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our
sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests
unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever
and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye
shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds
of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am
Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John wrote to the seven churches in Asia, which I believe were
literal, historical churches, just like churches are today. Look
what John tells them to look for. It is a coming of Christ with
clouds where every eye shall see him. Please keep in mind that
my main thrust in this discussion is not to convince you of my
position, but for you to see that I can hold to my beliefs and
still be a Bible believer. I consider you to be a Bible
believer.
[/quote]
Yes, Joe we both believe in Jesus Christ. To those that cannot
read or have access to HIS WORD, this may be enough. However, we
()I think) are in a little different situation. One of us is
wrong and the consequences will not be good.
Hope you have a Blessed evening
Blade
#Post#: 463--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: Sasha Date: August 16, 2018, 10:26 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg461#msg461
date=1534472546]
[quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg440#msg440
date=1534434871]
* God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout
prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in
effect. especially GEn 12:3. oh, and GOD is in control, HE
left them.
*If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and
be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch
because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.
*These are people that are left behind. You probably know some
that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has
said.
the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in
multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses
will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven.
These will also Die in Christ. and the OT saints (their souls
are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves
unto life again. They too are redeemed.
Mat 24:29-31 is the 2nd coming of Jesus WITH his elect.(Notice
that all peoples of the earth see him.). 1 Thes 4:13-18 is the
Rapture and only the Church those who are alive and those who
have died in him with see him. A very small crowd. Notice He
does not come to earth but to the clouds and He Comes FOR his
ELECT. These are NOT the same.
I am sorry JOE, There was just no easy way to say it.
Blade
[/color]
[/quote]
[quote]Blade,
Don't worry about trying to say things the easy way. I
appreciate you being direct.
As to the idea of Matt:24 and 1Thes being similar, but not the
same, I look to Rev 1:4-8. Notice the clouds here too. He comes
in the clouds AND every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be
unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which
is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his
throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,
and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings
of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our
sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests
unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever
and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye
shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds
of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am
Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John wrote to the seven churches in Asia, which I believe were
literal, historical churches, just like churches are today. Look
what John tells them to look for. It is a coming of Christ with
clouds where every eye shall see him. Please keep in mind that
my main thrust in this discussion is not to convince you of my
position, but for you to see that I can hold to my beliefs and
still be a Bible believer. I consider you to be a Bible
believer.
[/quote]
Yes, Joe we both believe in Jesus Christ. To those that cannot
read or have access to HIS WORD, this may be enough. However, we
()I think) are in a little different situation. One of us is
wrong and the consequences will not be good.
Hope you have a Blessed evening
Blade
[/quote]
A friendly reminder that eschatology doesn’t save. I’ve ridden
on some drastic campaigns in my day, but to be sincere, I always
sit back and think, “hey, Jesus has got His bride and bodies
backs.”
Disagreement on finer points of musterion don’t equal spiritual
consequences. Some people will have to take some
butthurt-be-gone and say; “Oh, so that’s what that meant,
Jesus.”
I always remind myself that no one expected God to die for them,
back in the day. That said, it’s going to be a real nail biter,
however it all plays out and none of us really know what aspects
of our understanding will serve up humble pie to us.
My two cents.
All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Blade.
- Sasha
#Post#: 473--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: guest8 Date: August 17, 2018, 11:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Sasha link=topic=35.msg463#msg463 date=1534476400]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg461#msg461
date=1534472546]
[quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg440#msg440
date=1534434871]
* God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout
prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in
effect. especially GEn 12:3. oh, and GOD is in control, HE
left them.
*If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and
be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch
because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.
*These are people that are left behind. You probably know some
that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has
said.
the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in
multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses
will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven.
These will also Die in Christ. and the OT saints (their souls
are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves
unto life again. They too are redeemed.
Mat 24:29-31 is the 2nd coming of Jesus WITH his elect.(Notice
that all peoples of the earth see him.). 1 Thes 4:13-18 is the
Rapture and only the Church those who are alive and those who
have died in him with see him. A very small crowd. Notice He
does not come to earth but to the clouds and He Comes FOR his
ELECT. These are NOT the same.
I am sorry JOE, There was just no easy way to say it.
Blade
[/color]
[/quote]
[quote]Blade,
Don't worry about trying to say things the easy way. I
appreciate you being direct.
As to the idea of Matt:24 and 1Thes being similar, but not the
same, I look to Rev 1:4-8. Notice the clouds here too. He comes
in the clouds AND every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be
unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which
is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his
throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,
and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings
of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our
sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests
unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever
and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye
shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds
of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am
Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John wrote to the seven churches in Asia, which I believe were
literal, historical churches, just like churches are today. Look
what John tells them to look for. It is a coming of Christ with
clouds where every eye shall see him. Please keep in mind that
my main thrust in this discussion is not to convince you of my
position, but for you to see that I can hold to my beliefs and
still be a Bible believer. I consider you to be a Bible
believer.
[/quote]
Yes, Joe we both believe in Jesus Christ. To those that cannot
read or have access to HIS WORD, this may be enough. However, we
()I think) are in a little different situation. One of us is
wrong and the consequences will not be good.
Hope you have a Blessed evening
Blade
[/quote]
A friendly reminder that eschatology doesn’t save. I’ve ridden
on some drastic campaigns in my day, but to be sincere, I always
sit back and think, “hey, Jesus has got His bride and bodies
backs.”
Disagreement on finer points of musterion don’t equal spiritual
consequences. Some people will have to take some
butthurt-be-gone and say; “Oh, so that’s what that meant,
Jesus.”
I always remind myself that no one expected God to die for them,
back in the day. That said, it’s going to be a real nail biter,
however it all plays out and none of us really know what aspects
of our understanding will serve up humble pie to us.
My two cents.
All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Blade.
- Sasha
[/quote]
Thank you Sasha...If we were talking about the MAD
dispensationalist, I would agree. I cannot see any difference in
Acts 2 where 3000+ Jewsh people became part of the "body of
Christ" or Acts 10 where the Gentiles began becoming part of the
Body of Christ. It is not like Gentiles were not saved during
the 'Age of the Law' or in the early days of ACTs 2 forward.
Did the Bible tells us that for the first time, the gentiles
were saved in Acts 10? If it did, I missed it.
However, this disagreement will not affect Salvation. We all
(here) are Brothers in Christ.
However, Post-rapture and Amellinnialism go hand in hand. Both
remove major parts of the OT and NEW Testament (Gen 12 through
Acts 2 then Rev 1 through REV 17.) in most cases 3/4 of the
Bible is thrown out. Unlike the above where there is a simple
disagreement on when the "Body of Christ" actually started, the
Post and Amillennialism theologies seem to be disregarding the
WORD of GOD. In both cases, there can be no Millennium. There is
no marriage supper, there is no Bema Judgment seat and there is
no sheep and goat judgments to name a few. For when God comes to
earth for us, we have to come right back down. And is as John
14:3 states, How can we (his Church) be with him at all times
and everywhere he is, if we are still on earth being persecuted
and killed?
I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion and boy am I
opinionated lol.. However, one of us in any opposing
conversation will be wrong and it may (is up to Jesus) have dire
consequences.
In my case, If I am wrong as a Pre-trib rapturist, then I will
die (one way or the other) in Christ and nothing is lost as My
soul will still go to heaven.
It is said in the Bible, that after the Pre-trib Rapture, the
greatest revival the world has ever known will be during
Daniel's 70th week. This will include those who received the
Gospel by the 144,000, resulting in multitudes, tribes and
nations converting including the 1/3 (remnant ) Jewish people
who will convert to Jesus at the Abomination of Desolate.
Those left behind will know exactly what happened and WHY! They
too will instantly be converted, and will have to die during
Daniel's 70th week to PROVE their new beliefs.
Joe and I are just one of many examples of the differences in
the Biblical world. This Forum has to present the Best arguments
(from all sides) that it can to educate people about Jesus
Christ and His Gospel and give them a reasonable guideline to
make decisions on.
Is this what GOD wants us to DO?
I think so... so much for the penny I offer!
Hope you have a Blessed day, Sasha, my sister in Christ.
Blade
#Post#: 474--------------------------------------------------
Re: Amillennialism or Premillennialism
By: Sasha Date: August 17, 2018, 12:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg473#msg473
date=1534525123]
[quote author=Sasha link=topic=35.msg463#msg463 date=1534476400]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg461#msg461
date=1534472546]
[quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg440#msg440
date=1534434871]
* God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout
prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in
effect. especially GEn 12:3. oh, and GOD is in control, HE
left them.
*If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and
be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch
because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.
*These are people that are left behind. You probably know some
that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has
said.
the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in
multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses
will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven.
These will also Die in Christ. and the OT saints (their souls
are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves
unto life again. They too are redeemed.
Mat 24:29-31 is the 2nd coming of Jesus WITH his elect.(Notice
that all peoples of the earth see him.). 1 Thes 4:13-18 is the
Rapture and only the Church those who are alive and those who
have died in him with see him. A very small crowd. Notice He
does not come to earth but to the clouds and He Comes FOR his
ELECT. These are NOT the same.
I am sorry JOE, There was just no easy way to say it.
Blade
[/color]
[/quote]
[quote]Blade,
Don't worry about trying to say things the easy way. I
appreciate you being direct.
As to the idea of Matt:24 and 1Thes being similar, but not the
same, I look to Rev 1:4-8. Notice the clouds here too. He comes
in the clouds AND every eye shall see Him.
Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be
unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which
is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his
throne; 5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness,
and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings
of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our
sins in his own blood, 6 And hath made us kings and priests
unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever
and ever. Amen. 7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye
shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds
of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. 8 I am
Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
John wrote to the seven churches in Asia, which I believe were
literal, historical churches, just like churches are today. Look
what John tells them to look for. It is a coming of Christ with
clouds where every eye shall see him. Please keep in mind that
my main thrust in this discussion is not to convince you of my
position, but for you to see that I can hold to my beliefs and
still be a Bible believer. I consider you to be a Bible
believer.
[/quote]
Yes, Joe we both believe in Jesus Christ. To those that cannot
read or have access to HIS WORD, this may be enough. However, we
()I think) are in a little different situation. One of us is
wrong and the consequences will not be good.
Hope you have a Blessed evening
Blade
[/quote]
A friendly reminder that eschatology doesn’t save. I’ve ridden
on some drastic campaigns in my day, but to be sincere, I always
sit back and think, “hey, Jesus has got His bride and bodies
backs.”
Disagreement on finer points of musterion don’t equal spiritual
consequences. Some people will have to take some
butthurt-be-gone and say; “Oh, so that’s what that meant,
Jesus.”
I always remind myself that no one expected God to die for them,
back in the day. That said, it’s going to be a real nail biter,
however it all plays out and none of us really know what aspects
of our understanding will serve up humble pie to us.
My two cents.
All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Blade.
- Sasha
[/quote]
Thank you Sasha...If we were talking about the MAD
dispensationalist, I would agree. I cannot see any difference in
Acts 2 where 3000+ Jewsh people became part of the "body of
Christ" or Acts 10 where the Gentiles began becoming part of the
Body of Christ. It is not like Gentiles were not saved during
the 'Age of the Law' or in the early days of ACTs 2 forward.
Did the Bible tells us that for the first time, the gentiles
were saved in Acts 10? If it did, I missed it.
However, this disagreement will not affect Salvation. We all
(here) are Brothers in Christ.
However, Post-rapture and Amellinnialism go hand in hand. Both
remove major parts of the OT and NEW Testament (Gen 12 through
Acts 2 then Rev 1 through REV 17.) in most cases 3/4 of the
Bible is thrown out. Unlike the above where there is a simple
disagreement on when the "Body of Christ" actually started, the
Post and Amillennialism theologies seem to be disregarding the
WORD of GOD. In both cases, there can be no Millennium. There is
no marriage supper, there is no Bema Judgment seat and there is
no sheep and goat judgments to name a few. For when God comes to
earth for us, we have to come right back down. And is as John
14:3 states, How can we (his Church) be with him at all times
and everywhere he is, if we are still on earth being persecuted
and killed?
I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion and boy am I
opinionated lol.. However, one of us in any opposing
conversation will be wrong and it may (is up to Jesus) have dire
consequences.
In my case, If I am wrong as a Pre-trib rapturist, then I will
die (one way or the other) in Christ and nothing is lost as My
soul will still go to heaven.
It is said in the Bible, that after the Pre-trib Rapture, the
greatest revival the world has ever known will be during
Daniel's 70th week. This will include those who received the
Gospel by the 144,000, resulting in multitudes, tribes and
nations converting including the 1/3 (remnant ) Jewish people
who will convert to Jesus at the Abomination of Desolate.
Those left behind will know exactly what happened and WHY! They
too will instantly be converted, and will have to die during
Daniel's 70th week to PROVE their new beliefs.
Joe and I are just one of many examples of the differences in
the Biblical world. This Forum has to present the Best arguments
(from all sides) that it can to educate people about Jesus
Christ and His Gospel and give them a reasonable guideline to
make decisions on.
Is this what GOD wants us to DO?
I think so... so much for the penny I offer!
Hope you have a Blessed day, Sasha, my sister in Christ.
Blade
[/quote]
I’ll take your Penny and hold on to it! Well said!!!!
I mostly keep my mouth shut, because I can get quite
rambunctious.
I’ll reveal this about my personal view. I’m cookoo for Israel
and see any prophecy void of the Israel of landscape and blood
origin as complex mental gymnastics that go past the natural
flow of scripture.
But, that’s my .05 cents on the matter.
All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Blade.
*****************************************************
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