URI:
   DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       <
       form action=&amp
       ;amp;amp;quot;https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; method=&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;p
       ost&
       quot; target=&am
       p;amp;amp;quot;_top&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;input type=&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hidden&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; name=&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;cmd&a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; value=&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot
       ;_s-xclick&a
       mp;amp;quot;&amp
       ;amp;amp;gt; &am
       p;amp;amp;lt;input type=&amp
       ;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hidden&amp
       ;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; name=&amp
       ;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hosted_button_id&a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; val
       ue=&
       quot;DKL7ADEKRVUBL&a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&amp
       ;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;input type=&amp
       ;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;image&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; src=&a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;https://www.payp
       alobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; border=&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;0&a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; nam
       e=&q
       uot;submit&a
       mp;amp;quot; alt=&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;quot;PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!
       &quo
       t;&g
       t; &
       lt;img alt=&
       amp;amp;quot;&am
       p;amp;amp;quot; border=&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;0&a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; src=&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;https://www.paypalobjects.com
       /en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif&a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; width=&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;1&a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; height=&amp
       ;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;1&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&am
       p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &a
       mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/form&
       amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;
  HTML https://3169.createaforum.com
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       *****************************************************
   DIR Return to: Words of God - Christian Theology w/Bladerunner
       *****************************************************
       #Post#: 364--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: Sasha Date: August 13, 2018, 8:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg361#msg361
       date=1534204520]
       [quote author=Sasha link=topic=35.msg306#msg306 date=1534089816]
       [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg209#msg209
       date=1533865090]
  HTML https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/theology-570x420.jpg
       [img]
  HTML http://www.desales.edu/images/default-source/headers_undergrad/theology.png?sfvrsn=0[/img]
       These are the two main arguments of Escathology today.
       The amellinnialism argument is usually associated with
       replacement theology which states that Israel forfeited their
       rights to the covenants given to them by GOD (Jehovah) in
       ancient times. Their covenants were therefore transferred to the
       Church (Body of Christ). Because of this, there will be no
       Millennial as we are in it and Jesus is ruling spiritually
       today.
       Premillennialism argues that we are living during the Age of the
       Church and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ is future to us.
       There are several disciplines associated with this argument.
       They are Pre-Rapture, Mid Rapture or Post Rapture.  Post-Rapture
       had its day in the mid 1900's but disappeared when the things
       did not get any better as was prophesied. It is coming back with
       a vengeance.
       Through literal, historical and grammatical interpretations of
       the Bible (KJV) pre-mil, pre-trib is the only game in town.
       Blade
       [/quote]
       One of my most influential verses in posture are the
       following...
       Acts 1:6-12
       But zoom in on 9-11 then focus on Verse 12 and carry locational
       Revelation from verse 12 into Zechariah 14:1-4. Now pair
       Zechariah 14:4’s locational revelation and circumstances with
       Acts 1:12, then consider the Apostles Question to Christ in Acts
       1:6-8, followed by Chriat’s Answer.
       If you take it literally and catch it, it should be a Holy moly
       moment.
       All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.
       That’s my opinion, of course.  I am aware it can be read many
       different ways, but see if you can see it.
       [/quote]
       I just did as you suggested. Olivet is one of those special
       places. Do you think the disciples went there to wait for
       Christ's return in Acts 1:12. Or maybe to pray for divine
       guidance before going into all the world? Maybe they went there
       often to wait. I have friends who have gone to Israel and told
       me that it was life changing to walk where He walked.
       [/quote]
       How could they not have.  The Son ascended from there.  Now that
       you say it, I wish I could go there!
       Good point Joe!
       #Post#: 365--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: patrick jane Date: August 13, 2018, 8:09 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg363#msg363
       date=1534206454]
       [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg334#msg334
       date=1534140344]
       [quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg324#msg324
       date=1534129551]
       Are you the guy on TF who said the resurrection is actually a
       collection of resurrections? That might explain a lot. I might
       actually come to believe that. I wish I knew how to make these
       threads include the post I am replying to. I have to keep
       switching back and forth to see all you said. It looks to me
       from reading Rev 20:4 that all those groups of people went
       through Daniel's 70th week. Was that your point? I'll try to
       figure out how to quote your post in my reply so I can give you
       a better answer.
       [/quote]
       The Church does not go through Daniel's 70th week. The 24 Elders
       represent them in Chapter 4 and throughout the 70th week.
       All the others that were alive at its beginning lost their
       heads if they believed in Jesus Christ. This includes the
       144,000 .
       The OT saints were dead thus not alive during daniel's 70th week
       but were resurrected after the the 70th week and before the
       millennium.
       The beginning of the Millennium was the end of the 1st
       resurrection!
       The 2nd resurrection is nothing more that for those that are
       unbelievers and must face the White Throne Judgement.
       Blade
       [/quote]
       Here is the point at which we diverge. I say that the church
       will go through Daniel's 70th week until wrath begins at the 7th
       trumpet. Now we will begin to argue things such as when does
       wrath begin, and why Daniel's 70th week includes both the church
       and national Israel. I can see this discussion as if it happened
       yesterday. I compare Matt 24:29-31 to 1Thess 4:13-8 and see the
       exact same event in both passages. Some may say, wait, one is
       for the Jews and the other is for the Church, because
       dispensationalism says it must be two different events. I say
       that dispensationalism is wrong on this point. I think they are
       wrong on the definition of the church too. I think the church
       started with Christ and the disciples during His earthly
       ministry, not at Pentecoste. The church (both the Jewish and
       Gentile elements) were grafted into the plan already in
       operation. The Jewish believing remnant was joined by the
       Samaratins, then the Gentiles. We are not separate from them.
       The nation of Israel left God, He did not leave them.
       Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.
       For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe
       of Benjamin.
       Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a
       remnant according to the election of grace.
       Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he
       seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest
       were blinded
       Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall?
       God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto
       the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
       Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,
       and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much
       more their fulness?
       You said this, "The beginning of the Millennium was the end of
       the 1st resurrection!"
       I completely agree with this, but it fits with pretribulation or
       pre-wrath. If the church is gone before the great tribulation,
       where in the world to all the saved people come from that are
       beheaded etc?
       [/quote]I'd like to tell you what I've run into with MAD. It's
       hard to explain for me by typing and other excuses but I know by
       reading them and through right division. I think I'm Acts 9 and
       that is 1 program 1 dispensation 1 unit. Here is a link and Acts
       9 is on top with the Acts 9 and Acts 9/28 and Acts 28 but does
       not include Acts 2 or Acts 13.
       Very confusing to some. I'm still studying and I study with
       Grace Ambassadors and post in my thread from Justin Johnson. I
       watch/listen to a lot of his videos too. I know you're busy and
       I jump around a bit in my thread but try reading a post
       sometimes. I only feature 5 Youtube channels and they are one
       and so is Joe at TF, lol.
       Chart I'm talking about :
  HTML https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/dispensational-timelines-acts-9-acts-28-acts-9-28-hybrid1.pdf
       Other Charts :
  HTML https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.org/bible-timeline-other-study-aids/
       Grace Ambassadors Youtube channel :
  HTML https://www.youtube.com/user/GraceAmbassador
       #Post#: 367--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: guest8 Date: August 13, 2018, 9:48 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg363#msg363
       date=1534206454]
       [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg334#msg334
       date=1534140344]
       [quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg324#msg324
       date=1534129551]
       Are you the guy on TF who said the resurrection is actually a
       collection of resurrections? That might explain a lot. I might
       actually come to believe that. I wish I knew how to make these
       threads include the post I am replying to. I have to keep
       switching back and forth to see all you said. It looks to me
       from reading Rev 20:4 that all those groups of people went
       through Daniel's 70th week. Was that your point? I'll try to
       figure out how to quote your post in my reply so I can give you
       a better answer.
       [/quote]
       The Church does not go through Daniel's 70th week. The 24 Elders
       represent them in Chapter 4 and throughout the 70th week.
       All the others that were alive at its beginning lost their
       heads if they believed in Jesus Christ. This includes the
       144,000 .
       The OT saints were dead thus not alive during daniel's 70th week
       but were resurrected after the the 70th week and before the
       millennium.
       The beginning of the Millennium was the end of the 1st
       resurrection!
       The 2nd resurrection is nothing more that for those that are
       unbelievers and must face the White Throne Judgement.
       Blade
       [/quote]
       Here is the point at which we diverge. I say that the church
       will go through Daniel's 70th week until wrath begins at the 7th
       trumpet. Now we will begin to argue things such as when does
       wrath begin, and why Daniel's 70th week includes both the church
       and national Israel. I can see this discussion as if it happened
       yesterday. I compare Matt 24:29-31 to 1Thess 4:13-8 and see the
       exact same event in both passages. Some may say, wait, one is
       for the Jews and the other is for the Church, because
       dispensationalism says it must be two different events. I say
       that dispensationalism is wrong on this point. I think they are
       wrong on the definition of the church too. I think the church
       started with Christ and the disciples during His earthly
       ministry, not at Pentecoste. The church (both the Jewish and
       Gentile elements) were grafted into the plan already in
       operation. The Jewish believing remnant was joined by the
       Samaratins, then the Gentiles. We are not separate from them.
       The nation of Israel left God, He did not leave them.
       Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.
       For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe
       of Benjamin.
       Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a
       remnant according to the election of grace.
       Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he
       seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest
       were blinded
       Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall?
       God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto
       the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
       Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,
       and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much
       more their fullness?
       You said this, "The beginning of the Millennium was the end of
       the 1st resurrection!"
       I completely agree with this, but it fits with pre-tribulation
       or pre-wrath. If the church is gone before the great
       tribulation, where in the world to all the saved people come
       from that are beheaded etc?
       [/quote]
       Where did it go... I had written a fews down and now it is gone.
       Oh-well...
       Joe, I ask that you read these points.
       * God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout
       prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in
       effect. especially GEn 12:3.   oh, and GOD is in control, HE
       left them.
       *If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and
       be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch
       because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.
       *These are people that are left behind. You probably know some
       that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has
       said.
       the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in
       multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses
       will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven.
       These will also Die in Christ.  and the OT saints (their souls
       are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves
       unto life again. They too are redeemed.
       The Jews that flee Jerusalem when the Antichrist performed the
       Abomination of Desolate, will be protected by GOD (the Father)
       in the mountains of Petra. There He will feed and water them for
       the next 3. 5 years of Daniel's 70th week. These Jews will He
       give New Covenant, Jeremiah speaks of, into their hearts and
       removes all of their sins, forever. They will rule the Nation of
       Israel with Jesus during the millennium. Their Children will
       have 100 years to decide (to believe or Not to believe)
       The last group are those that lived through Daniel's 70th week.
       They are the "maybe" believers as all the unbelievers are dead.
       These did not take the mark of the beast but managed to survive.
       They will be given land and will turn their swords into plows.
       They will have 100 years to make a decision (to believe or Not
       to Believe).
       The Church (body of Christ) saints will judge from Thrones with
       Jesus
       The Tribulation Saints will serve the Lord day and night. (at
       what I do not know)
       It does not say what the 144,000 will be doing.
       Blade
       #Post#: 394--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: joechan82 Date: August 14, 2018, 4:17 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=Sasha link=topic=35.msg364#msg364 date=1534208893]
       [quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg361#msg361
       date=1534204520]
       [quote author=Sasha link=topic=35.msg306#msg306 date=1534089816]
       [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=35.msg209#msg209
       date=1533865090]
  HTML https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/theology-570x420.jpg
       [img]
  HTML http://www.desales.edu/images/default-source/headers_undergrad/theology.png?sfvrsn=0[/img]
       These are the two main arguments of Escathology today.
       The amellinnialism argument is usually associated with
       replacement theology which states that Israel forfeited their
       rights to the covenants given to them by GOD (Jehovah) in
       ancient times. Their covenants were therefore transferred to the
       Church (Body of Christ). Because of this, there will be no
       Millennial as we are in it and Jesus is ruling spiritually
       today.
       Premillennialism argues that we are living during the Age of the
       Church and the 1000 year reign of Jesus Christ is future to us.
       There are several disciplines associated with this argument.
       They are Pre-Rapture, Mid Rapture or Post Rapture.  Post-Rapture
       had its day in the mid 1900's but disappeared when the things
       did not get any better as was prophesied. It is coming back with
       a vengeance.
       Through literal, historical and grammatical interpretations of
       the Bible (KJV) pre-mil, pre-trib is the only game in town.
       Blade
       [/quote]
       One of my most influential verses in posture are the
       following...
       Acts 1:6-12
       But zoom in on 9-11 then focus on Verse 12 and carry locational
       Revelation from verse 12 into Zechariah 14:1-4. Now pair
       Zechariah 14:4’s locational revelation and circumstances with
       Acts 1:12, then consider the Apostles Question to Christ in Acts
       1:6-8, followed by Chriat’s Answer.
       If you take it literally and catch it, it should be a Holy moly
       moment.
       All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.
       That’s my opinion, of course.  I am aware it can be read many
       different ways, but see if you can see it.
       [/quote]
       I just did as you suggested. Olivet is one of those special
       places. Do you think the disciples went there to wait for
       Christ's return in Acts 1:12. Or maybe to pray for divine
       guidance before going into all the world? Maybe they went there
       often to wait. I have friends who have gone to Israel and told
       me that it was life changing to walk where He walked.
       [/quote]
       How could they not have.  The Son ascended from there.  Now that
       you say it, I wish I could go there!
       Good point Joe!
       [/quote]
       It has to be amazing beyond belief. If I read my Bible right, we
       will have a chance to see the Lord return there one day soon.
       #Post#: 395--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: joechan82 Date: August 14, 2018, 4:45 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Here is the point at which we diverge. I say that the church
       will go through Daniel's 70th week until wrath begins at the 7th
       trumpet. Now we will begin to argue things such as when does
       wrath begin, and why Daniel's 70th week includes both the church
       and national Israel. I can see this discussion as if it happened
       yesterday. I compare Matt 24:29-31 to 1Thess 4:13-8 and see the
       exact same event in both passages. Some may say, wait, one is
       for the Jews and the other is for the Church, because
       dispensationalism says it must be two different events. I say
       that dispensationalism is wrong on this point. I think they are
       wrong on the definition of the church too. I think the church
       started with Christ and the disciples during His earthly
       ministry, not at Pentecoste. The church (both the Jewish and
       Gentile elements) were grafted into the plan already in
       operation. The Jewish believing remnant was joined by the
       Samaratins, then the Gentiles. We are not separate from them.
       The nation of Israel left God, He did not leave them.
       Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.
       For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe
       of Benjamin.
       Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a
       remnant according to the election of grace.
       Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he
       seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest
       were blinded
       Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall?
       God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto
       the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
       Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,
       and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much
       more their fullness?
       You said this, "The beginning of the Millennium was the end of
       the 1st resurrection!"
       I completely agree with this, but it fits with pre-tribulation
       or pre-wrath. If the church is gone before the great
       tribulation, where in the world to all the saved people come
       from that are beheaded etc?
       [/quote]
       Where did it go... I had written a fews down and now it is gone.
       Oh-well...
       Joe, I ask that you read these points.
       * God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout
       prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in
       effect. especially GEn 12:3.   oh, and GOD is in control, HE
       left them.
       *If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and
       be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch
       because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.
       *These are people that are left behind. You probably know some
       that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has
       said.
       the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in
       multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses
       will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven.
       These will also Die in Christ.  and the OT saints (their souls
       are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves
       unto life again. They too are redeemed.
       The Jews that flee Jerusalem when the Antichrist performed the
       Abomination of Desolate, will be protected by GOD (the Father)
       in the mountains of Petra. There He will feed and water them for
       the next 3. 5 years of Daniel's 70th week. These Jews will He
       give New Covenant, Jeremiah speaks of, into their hearts and
       removes all of their sins, forever. They will rule the Nation of
       Israel with Jesus during the millennium. Their Children will
       have 100 years to decide (to believe or Not to believe)
       The last group are those that lived through Daniel's 70th week.
       They are the "maybe" believers as all the unbelievers are dead.
       These did not take the mark of the beast but managed to survive.
       They will be given land and will turn their swords into plows.
       They will have 100 years to make a decision (to believe or Not
       to Believe).
       The Church (body of Christ) saints will judge from Thrones with
       Jesus
       The Tribulation Saints will serve the Lord day and night. (at
       what I do not know)
       It does not say what the 144,000 will be doing.
       Blade
       [/quote]
       I need to learn how to quote just part of the conversations.
       When I quote a post, it quotes all the posts that have been
       quoted. I have read the book called One Book Rightly Divided, so
       I know what you mean by 'rightly dividing'. That alone should
       help you see where I am coming from. I just have some verses
       that challenge where exactly to divide. I am not pretending to
       be schooling you. I just want you to see where I am coming from.
       I already cited Matt 24:29-31 compared to 1Thes 4:13-18 so I
       won't keep saying the same thing over and over. I assume that
       you are very familiar with those verses, and can hopefully see
       why I see one event, not two.
       My next comparison of passages is Matt 24:15-21 with 2Thes
       2:1-4. Here Paul tells the church to look for the abomination of
       desolation, just like Jesus said in Matt 24. If Matt 24 is just
       for the Jews, why then does Paul explain it to the church?
       #Post#: 399--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: guest8 Date: August 14, 2018, 7:34 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=joechan82 link=topic=35.msg395#msg395
       date=1534283129]
       Here is the point at which we diverge. I say that the church
       will go through Daniel's 70th week until wrath begins at the 7th
       trumpet. Now we will begin to argue things such as when does
       wrath begin, and why Daniel's 70th week includes both the church
       and national Israel. I can see this discussion as if it happened
       yesterday. I compare Matt 24:29-31 to 1Thess 4:13-8 and see the
       exact same event in both passages. Some may say, wait, one is
       for the Jews and the other is for the Church, because
       dispensationalism says it must be two different events. I say
       that dispensationalism is wrong on this point. I think they are
       wrong on the definition of the church too. I think the church
       started with Christ and the disciples during His earthly
       ministry, not at Pentecoste. The church (both the Jewish and
       Gentile elements) were grafted into the plan already in
       operation. The Jewish believing remnant was joined by the
       Samaratins, then the Gentiles. We are not separate from them.
       The nation of Israel left God, He did not leave them.
       Rom 11:1  I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.
       For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe
       of Benjamin.
       Rom 11:5  Even so then at this present time also there is a
       remnant according to the election of grace.
       Rom 11:7  What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he
       seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest
       were blinded
       Rom 11:11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall?
       God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto
       the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
       Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world,
       and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much
       more their fullness?
       You said this, "The beginning of the Millennium was the end of
       the 1st resurrection!"
       I completely agree with this, but it fits with pre-tribulation
       or pre-wrath. If the church is gone before the great
       tribulation, where in the world to all the saved people come
       from that are beheaded etc?
       [/quote]
       Where did it go... I had written a fews down and now it is gone.
       Oh-well...
       Joe, I ask that you read these points.
       * God has not left HIS people behind. This shown throughout
       prophecy in the OT and NT. The Covenants are and will be in
       effect. especially GEn 12:3.   oh, and GOD is in control, HE
       left them.
       *If you rightly divide the Bible, everything will make sense and
       be easier to read ACTs 2:1 was the beginning of the CHurch
       because that was the day the Holy Spirit came into the Church.
       *These are people that are left behind. You probably know some
       that believe in Jesus but do not believe in everythin He has
       said.
       the 144,000 will evangelize around the world and bring in
       multitudes . They themselves will be martyred. The two Witnesses
       will bring in many believers after they are rapture to heaven.
       These will also Die in Christ.  and the OT saints (their souls
       are in Heaven already) will be resurrected from their graves
       unto life again. They too are redeemed.
       The Jews that flee Jerusalem when the Antichrist performed the
       Abomination of Desolate, will be protected by GOD (the Father)
       in the mountains of Petra. There He will feed and water them for
       the next 3. 5 years of Daniel's 70th week. These Jews will He
       give New Covenant, Jeremiah speaks of, into their hearts and
       removes all of their sins, forever. They will rule the Nation of
       Israel with Jesus during the millennium. Their Children will
       have 100 years to decide (to believe or Not to believe)
       The last group are those that lived through Daniel's 70th week.
       They are the "maybe" believers as all the unbelievers are dead.
       These did not take the mark of the beast but managed to survive.
       They will be given land and will turn their swords into plows.
       They will have 100 years to make a decision (to believe or Not
       to Believe).
       The Church (body of Christ) saints will judge from Thrones with
       Jesus
       The Tribulation Saints will serve the Lord day and night. (at
       what I do not know)
       It does not say what the 144,000 will be doing.
       Blade
       [/quote]
       I need to learn how to quote just part of the conversations.
       When I quote a post, it quotes all the posts that have been
       quoted. I have read the book called One Book Rightly Divided, so
       I know what you mean by 'rightly dividing'. That alone should
       help you see where I am coming from. I just have some verses
       that challenge where exactly to divide. I am not pretending to
       be schooling you. I just want you to see where I am coming from.
       I already cited Matt 24:29-31 compared to 1Thes 4:13-18 so I
       won't keep saying the same thing over and over. I assume that
       you are very familiar with those verses, and can hopefully see
       why I see one event, not two.
       My next comparison of passages is Matt 24:15-21 with 2Thes
       2:1-4. Here Paul tells the church to look for the abomination of
       desolation, just like Jesus said in Matt 24. If Matt 24 is just
       for the Jews, why then does Paul explain it to the church?
       [/quote]
       Joe, I don't know what to say. Mat 24:15-21  AOD, prophecy by
       (Daniel),...  and 2 thes 2:1-4  The Rapture of the Churchand
       then the public viewing of the antichrist...These are close but
       they are not the same.
       Mat 24:29-31 is the 2nd coming of Jesus WITH his elect.(Notice
       that all peoples of the earth see him.).  1 Thes 4:13-18 is the
       Rapture and only the Church those who are alive and those who
       have died in him with see him. A very small crowd.  Notice He
       does not come to  earth but to the clouds and He Comes FOR his
       ELECT.    These are NOT the same.
       I am sorry JOE, There was just no easy way to say it.
       Blade
       #Post#: 404--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: guest2 Date: August 14, 2018, 8:40 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Daniels 70th week already happened.
       Christ was crucified in the middle of it.
       #Post#: 405--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: guest8 Date: August 14, 2018, 9:08 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       [quote author=1Mind1Spirit link=topic=35.msg404#msg404
       date=1534297202]
       Daniels 70th week already happened.
       Christ was crucified in the middle of it.
       [/quote]
       Hey 1mind1spirit.. I remember you from TF. Amillennialism isn't
       it.?  Thought so
       Have a good evening
       Blade
       #Post#: 414--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: Billy Evmur Date: August 15, 2018, 5:01 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       Antichrist will have reigned, will have opposed everything
       called god [that IS the great tribulation] and seated himself in
       the temple declaring himself to be God, THEN the Lord descends
       from heaven with a shout and destroys Antichrist...this is the
       same coming of the Lord in which we meet Him in the air.
       So this is the end of Antichrist not his first revealing.
       The mistake [as I see it] is in equating Tribulation with Wrath
       of God.
       Jesus says in the little apocalypses AFTER the tribulation of
       those days....they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds
       with great power and glory and gather His elect....the tribes of
       the earth will mourn etc. He then describes what amounts to the
       wrath of God.
       The same with John, the same with 2.Thess.1&2....definitely
       Antichrist comes first, and with him the most horrendous
       persecution ever...that IS the Great Tribulation.
       #Post#: 415--------------------------------------------------
       Re:  Amillennialism or Premillennialism
       By: Billy Evmur Date: August 15, 2018, 5:08 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       There's a trick to prophecy, I hope this will be a blessing.
       Make Revelations fit into the prophecies of open scripture, as
       in Paul and the little apocalypses of Jesus along with the OT
       prophets, don't try to make the open prophecies fit into
       Revelations....there is where people get tangled.
       Everything WE as the church need to know is in the open
       scriptures, a lot of Revs concerns the Jews.
       *****************************************************
   DIR Previous Page
   DIR Next Page