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DIR Return to: Words of God - Christian Theology w/Bladerunner
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#Post#: 4110--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: guest8 Date: February 24, 2019, 7:05 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=347.msg4107#msg4107
date=1551033460]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=347.msg4095#msg4095
date=1550976017]
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[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
[quote]This man has given all of his life God. He still after
40+ years, speaks with the Authority of GOD... How does He do
that! He Teaches verse by verse from GOD's WORD.
I urge all to listen to him instead of dismissing God's Word.
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]Blade, from what I hear so far I agree and it even seems
to line up with dispensational study. Is there such a thing as a
dispensational calvinist?
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]A dispensationalist calvinist?..... I am a
Calvinist and a dispensationalist (partial) as well.
Why do you ask?
Dispensation is Biblical (x4) and in my opinion it is a period
of time that God interacts with human kind different than He did
in another time period.
1*In the Creation Dispensation ( God only had ONE RULE and He
threw them out instead of killing Adam and EVE)
2*In the dispensation time period to Noah's Flood, God
destroyed the whole world except eight.
3*In the Dispensation time period between the end of Noah's
flood and pre-law, God change languages, moved people around and
split ONE language into several.
4*In the Dispensation period of the Law of Moses, God chose a
specific people and gave them laws to live, govern and worship
by. Throughout this period /of many kings, God has used the
Gentiles to bring wrath upon His chosen people.
5*In the dispensation period of the Kingdom of Heaven, Jesus
Christ (God manifest in the flesh), began speaking to His chosen
people about a Kingdom on earth where they would rule over
Israel. Having rejected their Messiah two times in this period
of time and a third time in the next dispensation, the Kingdom
of Heaven (Millennium) on Earth was postponed for a future time.
6*In the dispensation of Grace, those who believe in the SON of
GOD, Jesus Christ will receive salvation and the indwelling Holy
Spirit. This is different from other dispensations as ( SIN is
not simply covered but rather washed away with the blood of
Jesus.)
7*In the dispensation of Everlasting Gospel, the time period
after the removal of the Church (Body/Bride of Christ) WILL
include wars, rumors of wars, Daniel's 70th week, and the
removal (death) of 2/3 of the Jewish people along with a large
part of the Gentiles from every nation on earth. This time
period will establish the Remnant of Israel in the land GOD
originally gave them, the Sheep/goat judgement upon each nation
of the world and the rebuilding of Jerusalem and the 4th temple
whose dimensions are 50 x 50 miles, located just north of
Jerusalem. This period will also see the rise of Man against GOD
(again) as Satan resurrects the Gog/Maygog War for a second
time. This time, those who sinned cannot blame it on Satan as he
was not around for 1,000 years to taint their minds. The White
Throne Judgment will happen here and the Lake of Fire will be
full of those souls who choose not to follow GOD through their
own free-will while they lived in their mortal/angelic bodies
here on earth. This will include Lucifer, the Anti-Christ and
the False Prophet.
This last dispensation ended the 7th dispensation or 7,000 years
or the beginning of the 7th day from the beginning by GOD's
time. This time period has no ending as did that 7th day in
Genesis, thus is everlasting.
Add the above definition of dispensation along with the
Predestination/calling of GOD for those who He has chosen to
live with Him forever and the sum is:
Dispensationalism and Calvinism are separate but a part of
GOD's plan. They fit like a glove.
p.s. I do not subscribe to dispensationalism as written by John
Nelson Darby. My definition (above) is by its simplest state,
the way GOD treated Mankind vs all other time periods.
Keep in mind that GOD'S Love throughout all of the
dispensations was present and unconditional [/shadow]
Blade[/shaddow]
#Post#: 4114--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: patrick jane Date: February 24, 2019, 7:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Thanks Blade, I as k because I agree with what you believe. I
learn everyday.
#Post#: 4136--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: guest8 Date: February 25, 2019, 6:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=347.msg4114#msg4114
date=1551058876]
Thanks Blade, I as k because I agree with what you believe. I
learn everyday.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Thank You
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 4154--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: patrick jane Date: February 26, 2019, 11:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=347.msg4094#msg4094
date=1550946604]
Doctrine Of Election part 1
1 hour
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFJFKFz2uYw&t=621s
****************************************************************
********************
The Doctrine of Election part 2
1 hour
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQJYaATKc-E&index=7&t=0s&list=WL
****************************************************************
*******************************************************
The doctrine of Election part 3
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruHmL8Xhy88&t=1267s
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[/quote]
#Post#: 4157--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: guest58 Date: February 26, 2019, 1:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=347.msg3707#msg3707
date=1549428749]
Great post Bladerunner, and I too agree with much of the
Calvinist doctrine except the free will part. I also find it
hard to accept that some people were born to go straight to hell
and God knows it ahead of time. Why bring them into the world? I
have see some good Calvinist VS Open Theist debates. Maybe we
could post a good one here and comment as we watch?[/quote]
GOD's omniscience, Calvin's failure:
Calvin followed the pagan Greek widom definition of omniscience
brought into the church by the Greek idolizers and Augustine:
ie, GOD knows everything that can be known from eternity past to
eternity future. Certainly sounds all Godly and all eh? To bad
it is a blasphemy...
GOD is Love, holy, righteous and Just before all else. All
doctrine must conform to HIS nature. All doctrine that impugnes
HIS nature is a blasphemy.
This definition of HIS omniscience implies that HE knew before
their creation who would end in hell BUT CREATED THEM ANYWAY!!!
This is not loving; it is not righteous; it is not just - no
matter how many books of theo-babble have been written to try to
make it so...therefore it is blasphemy.
GOD does all things for HIS pleasure but HE takes NO PLEASURE
in the death of the wicked - therefore HE did not create them
evil to go to hell! Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I
live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the
death of the wicked...
Also, HE wants all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4...who wants
all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
so whether HE will get this want fulfilled or not, HE obviously
did NOT create anyone evil and without hope for salvation, ie,
destined to hell at creation!
So what do I offer in its place? Acts 15:18 KJV Known unto God
are all his works from the beginning of the world. To be
precise,HE knows all HIS works, usually accepted to be referring
to all that HE was created by HIS creative decree, which implies
that IF HE did not create something by HIS creative decree, HE
does NOT KNOW IT.
Also, these things HE knows from, since, the beginning of the
world, not BEFORE creation, not since eternity past. Therefore
we have good Biblical reason to reject the pagan wisdom the
ancient Church idolized.
This biblical definition of what HE knows also implies that If
HE did NOT create the results of our free will decisions but let
us create those results by our free will according to what we
most wanted, THEN HE did not know these results of our free will
decisions UNTIL we created the for ourselves and brought them
into reality.
Therefore NO ONE was created evil; not before Adam (Satan etc)
nor after Adam (you, me) but all sinners were created with a
free will and an equal ability and opportunity to choose to
become holy or eternally evil and then all sinners were sown
into the world as per Matt 13:38-39.
#Post#: 4159--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: guest8 Date: February 26, 2019, 6:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=347.msg4157#msg4157
date=1551208421]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=347.msg3707#msg3707
date=1549428749]
Great post Bladerunner, and I too agree with much of the
Calvinist doctrine except the free will part. I also find it
hard to accept that some people were born to go straight to hell
and God knows it ahead of time. Why bring them into the world? I
have see some good Calvinist VS Open Theist debates. Maybe we
could post a good one here and comment as we watch?[/quote]
GOD's omniscience, Calvin's failure:
Calvin followed the pagan Greek widom definition of omniscience
brought into the church by the Greek idolizers and Augustine:
ie, GOD knows everything that can be known from eternity past to
eternity future. Certainly sounds all Godly and all eh? To bad
it is a blasphemy...
GOD is Love, holy, righteous and Just before all else. All
doctrine must conform to HIS nature. All doctrine that impugnes
HIS nature is a blasphemy.
This definition of HIS omniscience implies that HE knew before
their creation who would end in hell BUT CREATED THEM ANYWAY!!!
This is not loving; it is not righteous; it is not just - no
matter how many books of theo-babble have been written to try to
make it so...therefore it is blasphemy.
GOD does all things for HIS pleasure but HE takes NO PLEASURE
in the death of the wicked - therefore HE did not create them
evil to go to hell! Ezekiel 33:11 Say to them, 'As surely as I
live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the
death of the wicked...
Also, HE wants all people to be saved, 1 Timothy 2:4...who wants
all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
so whether HE will get this want fulfilled or not, HE obviously
did NOT create anyone evil and without hope for salvation, ie,
destined to hell at creation!
So what do I offer in its place? Acts 15:18 KJB Known unto God
are all his works from the beginning of the world. To be
precise, HE knows all HIS works, usually accepted to be
referring to all that HE was created by HIS creative decree,
which implies that IF HE did not create something by HIS
creative decree, HE does NOT KNOW IT.
Also, these things HE knows from, since, the beginning of the
world, not BEFORE creation, not since eternity past. Therefore
we have good Biblical reason to reject the pagan wisdom the
ancient Church idolized.
This biblical definition of what HE knows also implies that If
HE did NOT create the results of our free will decisions but let
us create those results by our free will according to what we
most wanted, THEN HE did not know these results of our free will
decisions UNTIL we created the for ourselves and brought them
into reality.
Therefore NO ONE was created evil; not before Adam (Satan etc)
nor after Adam (you, me) but all sinners were created with a
free will and an equal ability and opportunity to choose to
become holy or eternally evil and then all sinners were sown
into the world as per Matt 13:38-39.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]So Ted T. ...after all that you said above, I
am still lost on what your position is concerning the Bible and
the fact that GOD's WORD said in:
Romans 8:29-30..."For whom he did foreknow, he also did
predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he
might be the firstborn among many brethren. v30...Moreover whom
he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called,
them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also
glorified."
If you believe in Jesus and His WORD, the Bible then You have to
believe in the above scripture! Simple as that. You either do
or you don't!
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 4181--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: guest58 Date: February 27, 2019, 12:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Romans 8:29-30..."For whom he did foreknow...
cannot refer to everyone He created as there are others whom He
cast out because He did NOT know them, proving that to foreknow
must mean to forelove. It is also worth mentioning that this
love and non-love happened before, and I accept the before means
before life in this world.
Since UNconditional love and election also mean unconditional
non-election, ie no reason of dis-merit is found in the person
being passed over for election and love, unconditional election
and non-election is a blasphemy against His nature as righteous
and just to condemn a person for no reason, no dis-merit,
it is obvious to me that our being foreloved and elected before
the foundation of the world happened at the same time and were
both MERIT BASED as responses to our free will decision to put
our faith in HIM or to put our faith in rejecting HIM as a false
GOD and a liar, the unforgivable sin.
WE chose our FATE by our free will. Those who put their faith in
HIM as their GOD and in HIS Son as their saviour, HE loved and
elected to be HIS Bride in heaven. Those who choose to go to
hell rather than to ever have to be married to HIM in heaven,
were condemned on the spot.
he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his
Son,
Once those HE never knew with love and finished their rebellions
HIS first order of business would have to have been to call for
the judgement of these reprobate but first, in case any of HIS
elect still had strong feelings for those condemned, HE also
called for them to come out from among the reprobate so the
judgement could be called, and some elect did in fact rebel
against this call idolizing their newly evil friends above their
GOD forcing the postponement of the judgement until these elect
could be safe from the judgment by becoming holy, ie mature.
This is revealed in Matt 13:28 An enemy did this, he replied.
So the servants asked him, Do you want us to go and pull them
up? 29 No, he said, if you pull the weeds now, you might
uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the
harvest.
Once all the elect had all chosen whether to remain faithful or
to rebel against the call for the judgement against the
reprobate, HE created the physical universe which we all saw,
Job 28:7 and Rom 1:20, and chose the Earth to be the prison
planet for all sinners whom HE gave PREDESTINED LIVES (not
fates) that would perfectly fulfill HIS prior condmentations and
promises of election to the sinful elect, as per Matt 13:36-39.
The sinful elect got LIVES on earth predestined to be conformed
to HIS Son and to become HIS Bride.
Those passed over for election after sinning the unforgivable
sin got LIVES predestined to end according to their free will
desire to end in hell rather than to be married to HIM, lives
predetermined to be a helpful part in HIS redemption of the
sinful elect. These two groups, the believers who are never
condemned but predestined to salvation and the unbelievers
condemned already for their unbelief are found in Jn 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not
believe stands condemned already because they have not believed
in the name of God's one and only Son.
v30...Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he
justified, them he also glorified." This of course describes the
order of operations of HIS bringing HIS sinful elect to being
heaven ready, cured of their addiction to sin, and fully in
agreement, accord, with HIS call for the judgment. Once the last
sinful elect is redeemed and sanctified, safe from the judgment
himself, then the day of the LORD will commence and all will be
burnt.
#Post#: 4195--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: guest8 Date: February 27, 2019, 11:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=347.msg4181#msg4181
date=1551291141]
Romans 8:29-30..."For whom he did foreknow...
cannot refer to everyone He created as there are others whom He
cast out because He did NOT know them, proving that to foreknow
must mean to forelove. It is also worth mentioning that this
love and non-love happened before, and I accept the before means
before life in this world.
Since UNconditional love and election also mean unconditional
non-election, ie no reason of dis-merit is found in the person
being passed over for election and love, unconditional election
and non-election is a blasphemy against His nature as righteous
and just to condemn a person for no reason, no dis-merit,
it is obvious to me that our being foreloved and elected before
the foundation of the world happened at the same time and were
both MERIT BASED as responses to our free will decision to put
our faith in HIM or to put our faith in rejecting HIM as a false
GOD and a liar, the unforgivable sin.
WE chose our FATE by our free will. Those who put their faith in
HIM as their GOD and in HIS Son as their saviour, HE loved and
elected to be HIS Bride in heaven. Those who choose to go to
hell rather than to ever have to be married to HIM in heaven,
were condemned on the spot.
he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his
Son,
Once those HE never knew with love and finished their rebellions
HIS first order of business would have to have been to call for
the judgement of these reprobate but first, in case any of HIS
elect still had strong feelings for those condemned, HE also
called for them to come out from among the reprobate so the
judgement could be called, and some elect did in fact rebel
against this call idolizing their newly evil friends above their
GOD forcing the postponement of the judgement until these elect
could be safe from the judgment by becoming holy, ie mature.
This is revealed in Matt 13:28 An enemy did this, he replied.
So the servants asked him, Do you want us to go and pull them
up? 29 No, he said, if you pull the weeds now, you might
uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the
harvest.
Once all the elect had all chosen whether to remain faithful or
to rebel against the call for the judgement against the
reprobate, HE created the physical universe which we all saw,
Job 28:7 and Rom 1:20, and chose the Earth to be the prison
planet for all sinners whom HE gave PREDESTINED LIVES (not
fates) that would perfectly fulfill HIS prior condmentations and
promises of election to the sinful elect, as per Matt 13:36-39.
The sinful elect got LIVES on earth predestined to be conformed
to HIS Son and to become HIS Bride.
Those passed over for election after sinning the unforgivable
sin got LIVES predestined to end according to their free will
desire to end in hell rather than to be married to HIM, lives
predetermined to be a helpful part in HIS redemption of the
sinful elect. These two groups, the believers who are never
condemned but predestined to salvation and the unbelievers
condemned already for their unbelief are found in Jn 3:18
Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not
believe stands condemned already because they have not believed
in the name of God's one and only Son.
v30...Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called:
and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he
justified, them he also glorified." This of course describes the
order of operations of HIS bringing HIS sinful elect to being
heaven ready, cured of their addiction to sin, and fully in
agreement, accord, with HIS call for the judgment. Once the last
sinful elect is redeemed and sanctified, safe from the judgment
himself, then the day of the LORD will commence and all will be
burnt.
[/quote]
[shadow=BLUE,left]TED, I did not get past this phrase...You
said: "cannot refer to everyone He created as there are others
whom He cast out because He did NOT know them,"
It is obvious you have decide NOT to take Jesus Christ up on His
GRACE Gift Package. For GOD LOVES you so much, He will abide by
your free-will decision. Yes, He loves you, and he will not make
you live with Him when it is evident, You do not want to. Of
course there are only one choice that is the right choice.
So Sad !
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 4223--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: guest58 Date: March 1, 2019, 10:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote]TED, I did not get past this phrase...You said: "cannot
refer to everyone He created as there are others whom He cast
out because He did NOT know them,"
It is obvious you have decide NOT to take Jesus Christ up on His
GRACE Gift Package. For GOD LOVES you so much, He will abide by
your free-will decision. Yes, He loves you, and he will not make
you live with Him when it is evident, You do not want to. Of
course there are only one choice that is the right
choice.[/quote]
First, I can barely navigate this site -it is just too busy and
confusing.
Second, I cannot find the reply with quote feature so there is
no link back link, sigh.
Third, you make a lot of assumptions about why I quoted a verse
that you stated you do not understand why I quoted it... Do you
often have knee jerk opposition to other's non-Calvinist
approach?
So let's try something new...Put the phrase you have difficulty
with in context of the verse I used to introduce the concept,
Romans 8:29-30..."For whom he did foreknow... ie "cannot refer
to everyone He created as there are others whom He cast out
because He did NOT know them,"
the concept being that foreknown cannot refer to everyone
because some HE never knew ! Matthew 7:23... It's too bad you
stopped there because the rest of the essay developes of the
concept.
Instead of maligning me with false accusations, will you deal
with the contention I made, exegete the verse as I did and tell
me how you believe I missed the mark like a good debater does?
#Post#: 4224--------------------------------------------------
Re: From a Calvinist perspective
By: patrick jane Date: March 1, 2019, 11:02 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Ted T. link=topic=347.msg4223#msg4223
date=1551459462]
[quote]TED, I did not get past this phrase...You said: "cannot
refer to everyone He created as there are others whom He cast
out because He did NOT know them,"
It is obvious you have decide NOT to take Jesus Christ up on His
GRACE Gift Package. For GOD LOVES you so much, He will abide by
your free-will decision. Yes, He loves you, and he will not make
you live with Him when it is evident, You do not want to. Of
course there are only one choice that is the right
choice.[/quote]
First, I can barely navigate this site -it is just too busy and
confusing.
Second, I cannot find the reply with quote feature so there is
no link back link, sigh.
Third, you make a lot of assumptions about why I quoted a verse
that you stated you do not understand why I quoted it... Do you
often have knee jerk opposition to other's non-Calvinist
approach?
So let's try something new...Put the phrase you have difficulty
with in context of the verse I used to introduce the concept,
Romans 8:29-30..."For whom he did foreknow... ie "cannot refer
to everyone He created as there are others whom He cast out
because He did NOT know them,"
the concept being that foreknown cannot refer to everyone
because some HE never knew ! Matthew 7:23... It's too bad you
stopped there because the rest of the essay developes of the
concept.
Instead of maligning me with false accusations, will you deal
with the contention I made, exegete the verse as I did and tell
me how you believe I missed the mark like a good debater does?
[/quote]Ted, sorry the quote feature is ABOVE the post at the
top right. Most forums have them at the bottom right. I hope you
get used to it here brother.
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