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       #Post#: 3800--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest43
       Date: February 10, 2019, 2:53 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
       >
       > I can see your line of thinking but consider this. God SPOKE
       everything into existence so in the beginning was the Word with
       a capital W = Jesus Christ is the Word. So right there you have
       God and Christ together in the beginning.
       --- End Quote ---
       Ah, Thank You Lord, .. I love you Patrick Jane, you are actually
       willing to talk more about this man made Doctrine.
       OK, now re-read what you said brother, like; "In The Beginning".
       Yes true, "in the beginning was the Word", but remember this
       because this is very critical, it is that God has no beginning
       because He Is Infinite! So this is strictly talking about Gods
       son Word who not only was there "in the beginning", but is
       called "the beginning and the End". So we can't really confuse
       Gods son Word with Infinite/Eternal God even if we tried, ..
       well not in truth, wouldn't you agree? One IS Infinite and
       Eternal, and the other IS the beginning and the End.
       Creation and the created have a beginning and an end, but
       Infinite "I Am" does not.
       So how would God define Himself if someone were to ask Him; who
       He was? Let's go back in Exodus where a man actually does ask
       Him?
       Exodus 3:4 When the Lord saw that he had gone over to look, God
       called to him from within the bush, “Moses! Moses!”
       And Moses said, “Here I am.”
       5 “Do not come any closer,” God said. “Take off your sandals,
       for the place where you are standing is holy ground.” 6 Then he
       said, “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God
       of Isaac and the God of Jacob.” At this, Moses hid his face,
       because he was afraid to look at God.
       OK, so who was Moses "really" looking at, and talking to?
       Well, this is what the Bible says:
       Exodus 3:2 There the angel of the Lord appeared to him in flames
       of fire from within a bush.
       You notice that the Christian Scholars did not capitalize the
       word "angel" here, yet it is God speaking. There is no way
       around this, the Angel of the Lord Is God, do we agree? (Clue:
       "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is
       holy ground.”)
       Yet somehow the Trinity doctrine ignores the Angel of Fire, ..
       why? Because like I said before that, then they would have to
       deal with not just three, but millions of "God" selves,
       including trees, because before the tree was created, it was
       God. In other words we could say: "in the beginning was tree,
       and the tree was with God, and the tree was God". We could
       actually say this with EVERYTHING God created, because it is all
       God. God is all in all, and all is God in the overall sense. But
       God does not want us to confuse the created, with Himself, so we
       shouldn't.
       Exodus 3:13 Moses said to God, “Suppose I go to the Israelites
       and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’
       and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ Then what shall I tell
       them?”
       14 God said to Moses, “I am who I am. This is what you are to
       say to the Israelites: ‘I am has sent me to you.’”
       15 God also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Lord,
       the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and
       the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
       “This is my name forever,
       the name you shall call me
       from generation to generation.
       So what is Gods name? is it "The Lord, the God of your
       fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of
       Jacob", or "I Am"?
       It is: "I Am", .. who is the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac
       and the God of Jacob. So God identified Himself by; "I Am" which
       He says is His name.
       How else could the Only Infinite and Eternal God identify
       Himself other than "I Am"?
       "I Am" is the Infinite and Eternal conscious Spirit/Mind. The
       first Word He spoke he named it His son "Word".
       I think of  it like this: Imagine writing a book, and the book
       takes on free will. Well that is who Gods son Word is, because
       this book contains all of creation:
       Hebrews 11:3 By faith we understand that the worlds were
       prepared by the word of God, so that what is seen was NOT made
       out of things which are visible. (I emphasized the word "not")
       Everything God created is by, and for this book called "Word",
       and the son/Word has free will, and through the son we come to
       see God, like it says here, that through the created, starting
       with His son Word, we can see/understand God:
       Romans 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible
       attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been
       clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so
       that they are without excuse.
       Colossians 1:16 For by Him all things were created, both in the
       heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or
       dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created
       through Him and for Him.
       So now what?
       2 Corinthians 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but
       on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is
       unseen is eternal.
       Who is both Infinite and Eternal? I don't mean like we shall
       inherit eternal life, but who is He himself Infinite and
       Eternal?
       We know it's not the son Word, for when he became flesh as Jesus
       he made it clear who he was: "I am the Beginning and the End,
       the Alpha and omega", so there is only One who is both Infinite
       and Eternal with no beginning nor end, and it is God.
       In heaven we see Gods presence as Light, and on His right side
       sits Jesus Christ, the Word of God. Where is the Holy Spirit
       sitting, .. on Gods left? And think also, where is the Angel of
       Fire-god, and all the other obvious God-selves? Even Hagar seen
       God, and she said "I seen God and lived'.
       --- Quote ---
       > Patrick Jane said - The Holy Spirit is God's Spirit and God
       CONSISTS of all three. We are IN Christ and Christ in us, the
       hope of glory, which was a mystery among other mysteries, some
       secret since the world began, others revealed to the prophets.
       >
       > The Word is God and the Word is Christ. As God said in the
       beginning, "Let us, Let US make man in our image" - God's voice
       and His Word created all things. Read some of Job concerning God
       and creation and scriptures about God's voice and God speaking.
       In real life the father gives way to the son who becomes equal
       to or even greater than the father. Nothing is greater than the
       Father, as we know yet Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are equal
       parts of God. To me, that's the only way the Bible makes sense.
       --- End Quote ---
       No my friend, God does not "consist of" the Holy Spirit, but God
       IS "Holy and Spirit". But God is not His son Word.
       And please don't say: "To me, that's the only way the Bible
       makes sense", because  what I see you doing is the only way you
       trying to make this Trinity Doctrine makes sense.  I mean we
       just barely scratched the surface understanding God.
       I mean come on, how would Gods spoken Word, His creation be
       equal to, or even greater then God who spoke it, .. you know
       what I mean?
       The "let us" part is because God is about to create man in their
       image, Adam in the image of God, and Eve in the image of His son
       Word.
       Just as God beget His son Word of Himself, God made Eve from
       what He took out of Adam. I mean doesn't that make sense?
       because that is what happened, I see a beautiful image of God
       and His son Word (John 1:1-) here in Adam and Eves creation.
       --- Quote ---
       > Patrick said - Now, at the same time, going back to childhood
       I have always thought in my mind somehow that God is greater
       than Jesus and the HS. I can't force my mind to think that God
       is not the greatest. Therefore, I do not condemn those who go
       against the trinity doctrine because I don't think God will send
       people to hell if the get the trinity wrong. They can't both be
       right.
       --- End Quote ---
       You said it Brother: "They can't both be right"!
       So either God is made up of three individual gods, one of which
       is clearly His "begotten son Word", a created being, or
       Infinite/Eternal conscious Spirit/Mind who defined Himself to
       Moses as "I Am" Is God and there is "No Other gods Besides
       Him"!? because the Bible is clear that we will see Jesus sitting
       on the right hand side of God in Heaven. So if we went by the
       gentile Roman created Trinity Doctrine, then most definitely God
       would have at least one more god besides Him.
       The Ten Commandments
       20 And God spoke all these words:
       2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of
       the land of slavery.
       3 “You shall have no other gods before me.
       4 “You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of
       anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the
       waters below.
       5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the
       Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the
       sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those
       who hate me, 6 but showing love to a thousand generations of
       those who love me and keep my commandments.
       Isaiah 45:5  (NIV)
       5 I am the Lord, and there is no other;
       apart from me there is no God.
       Joshua 24:15  (NIV)
       15 But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose
       for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods
       your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the
       Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my
       household, we will serve the Lord.”
       God bless you my Brother.
       #Post#: 3802--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: patrick jane
       Date: February 10, 2019, 3:22 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       I had to stop reading when you said that the angel of the Lord
       is God. That right there takes a bigger leap of faith than the
       trinity because the words are clear, It was an angel OF the Lord
       - NOT The Lord
       #Post#: 3811--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest43
       Date: February 10, 2019, 7:01 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
       >
       > I had to stop reading when you said that the angel of the Lord
       is God. That right there takes a bigger leap of faith than the
       trinity because the words are clear, It was an angel OF the Lord
       - NOT The Lord
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I know, .. that's what I'm talking about, if Jesus is a god, the
       Holy Spirit is another god, the Father is yet another, then why
       not the Angel of the Lord?
       When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see and talk to a
       bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or did he come
       before God Himself?
       a) Moses spoke to God
       b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       All three are Biblically legitimate answers.
       If you choose "a" above, then why do Trinitarians misunderstand
       the verse 28 here in John?
       John 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again,
       and Thomas was with them.
       Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them
       and said, “Peace be with you!”
       27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands.
       Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and
       believe.”
       28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
       29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have
       believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have
       believed.”
       Love you all.
       PS
       Remember that;
       I'm just a fool whose intentions are good
       Oh Lord,
       Please don't let me be misunderstood!
       #Post#: 3815--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest8
       Date: February 10, 2019, 8:58 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Arius link ---
       >
       > [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=317.msg3802#msg3802
       date=1549833742]
       > I had to stop reading when you said that the angel of the Lord
       is God. That right there takes a bigger leap of faith than the
       trinity because the words are clear, It was an angel OF the Lord
       - NOT The Lord
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I know, .. that's what I'm talking about, if Jesus is a god, the
       Holy Spirit is another god, the Father is yet another, then why
       not the Angel of the Lord?
       When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see and talk to a
       bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or did he come
       before God Himself?
       a) Moses spoke to God
       b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       All three are Biblically legitimate answers.
       If you choose "a" above, then why do Trinitarians misunderstand
       the verse 28 here in John?
       John 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again,
       and Thomas was with them.
       Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them
       and said, “Peace be with you!”
       27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands.
       Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and
       believe.”
       28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
       29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have
       believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have
       believed.”
       Love you all.
       PS
       Remember that;
       I'm just a fool whose intentions are good
       Oh Lord,
       Please don't let me be misunderstood!
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]
       If you would read the Bible literally, you would find out Jesus
       Christ has many names.
       Blade[/shadow]
       #Post#: 3819--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest43
       Date: February 10, 2019, 10:30 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Arius link=topic=317.msg3811#msg3811
       date=1549846900]
       > [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=317.msg3802#msg3802
       date=1549833742]
       > I had to stop reading when you said that the angel of the Lord
       is God. That right there takes a bigger leap of faith than the
       trinity because the words are clear, It was an angel OF the Lord
       - NOT The Lord
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I know, .. that's what I'm talking about, if Jesus is a god, the
       Holy Spirit is another god, the Father is yet another, then why
       not the Angel of the Lord?
       When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see and talk to a
       bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or did he come
       before God Himself?
       a) Moses spoke to God
       b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       All three are Biblically legitimate answers.
       If you choose "a" above, then why do Trinitarians misunderstand
       the verse 28 here in John?
       John 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again,
       and Thomas was with them.
       Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them
       and said, “Peace be with you!”
       27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands.
       Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and
       believe.”
       28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
       29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have
       believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have
       believed.”
       Love you all.
       PS
       Remember that;
       I'm just a fool whose intentions are good
       Oh Lord,
       Please don't let me be misunderstood!
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]
       If you would read the Bible literally, you would find out Jesus
       Christ has many names.
       Blade[/shadow]
       [/quote]
       I agree, something like 50 names, here is a few,
       * Alpha and Omega – “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and
       the Last, the Beginning and the End.” Rev. 22:13
       * Advocate – “My dear children, I write this to you so that you
       will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with
       the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.” 1 John 2:1
       * Author and Perfecter of Our Faith – “Fixing our eyes on Jesus,
       the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before
       Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at
       the right hand of the throne of God.” Heb. 12:2
       * Authority – “Jesus said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth
       has been given to me.” Matt. 28:18
       * Bread of Life – “Then Jesus declared, ‘I am the bread of life.
       Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes
       in me will never be thirsty.’” John 6:35
       * Beloved Son of God – “And behold, a voice from heaven said,
       “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matt.
       3:17
       * Bridegroom – “And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests
       mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come
       when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will
       fast.” Matt. 9:15
       * Chief Cornerstone – “The stone which the builders rejected has
       become the chief corner stone.” Ps. 118:22
       * Deliverer – “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he
       raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to
       come.” 1 Thess.1:10
       * Immanuel – “…She will give birth to a son and will call him
       Immanuel, which means 'God with us.’” Is. 7:14
       * Indescribable Gift – “Thanks be to God for His indescribable
       gift.” 2 Cor. 9:15
       * Judge – “…he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the
       living and the dead.” Acts 10:42
       * King of Kings – “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the
       Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of
       kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and
       faithful.” Rev. 17:14
       * Lamb of God – “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him
       and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the
       world!” John 1:29
       * Light of the World – "I am the light of the world. Whoever
       follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light
       of life." John 8:12
       * Lion of the Tribe of Judah – “Weep no more; behold, the Lion
       of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that
       he can open the scroll and its seven seals.” Rev. 5:5
       * Lord of All – “For this reason also, God highly exalted Him,
       and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that
       at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in
       heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue
       will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the
       Father.” Phil. 2:9-11
       Here is what Jesus is not: God the Father, even though many
       Bible versions put that in like in Revelations, and other NT
       books, to keep the Trinity-gods alive.
       * Christ is our Mediator – “For there is one God, and one
       mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Tim. 2:5
       the above would make no sense through Trinity translation: For
       there is one God, and mediator God between God and men, the
       man-God Christ Jesus.
       What I have noticed over the years is that even those who oppose
       the Bible, even the ones who claim to be atheist have defended
       the Trinity Doctrine!? Why is that?
       God bless
       Arius
       #Post#: 3821--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest8
       Date: February 10, 2019, 10:52 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Arius link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=317.msg3815#msg3815
       date=1549853905]
       > [quote author=Arius link=topic=317.msg3811#msg3811
       date=1549846900]
       > [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=317.msg3802#msg3802
       date=1549833742]
       > I had to stop reading when you said that the angel of the Lord
       is God. That right there takes a bigger leap of faith than the
       trinity because the words are clear, It was an angel OF the Lord
       - NOT The Lord
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I know, .. that's what I'm talking about, if Jesus is a god, the
       Holy Spirit is another god, the Father is yet another, then why
       not the Angel of the Lord?
       When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see and talk to a
       bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or did he come
       before God Himself?
       a) Moses spoke to God
       b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       All three are Biblically legitimate answers.
       If you choose "a" above, then why do Trinitarians misunderstand
       the verse 28 here in John?
       John 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again,
       and Thomas was with them.
       Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them
       and said, “Peace be with you!”
       27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands.
       Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and
       believe.”
       28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
       29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have
       believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have
       believed.”
       Love you all.
       PS
       Remember that;
       I'm just a fool whose intentions are good
       Oh Lord,
       Please don't let me be misunderstood!
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]
       If you would read the Bible literally, you would find out Jesus
       Christ has many names.
       Blade[/shadow]
       [/quote]
       I agree, something like 50 names, here is a few,
       * Alpha and Omega – “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and
       the Last, the Beginning and the End.” Rev. 22:13
       * Advocate – “My dear children, I write this to you so that you
       will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with
       the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.” 1 John 2:1
       * Author and Perfecter of Our Faith – “Fixing our eyes on Jesus,
       the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before
       Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at
       the right hand of the throne of God.” Heb. 12:2
       * Authority – “Jesus said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth
       has been given to me.” Matt. 28:18
       * Bread of Life – “Then Jesus declared, ‘I am the bread of life.
       Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes
       in me will never be thirsty.’” John 6:35
       * Beloved Son of God – “And behold, a voice from heaven said,
       “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matt.
       3:17
       * Bridegroom – “And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests
       mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come
       when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will
       fast.” Matt. 9:15
       * Chief Cornerstone – “The stone which the builders rejected has
       become the chief corner stone.” Ps. 118:22
       * Deliverer – “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he
       raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to
       come.” 1 Thess.1:10
       * Immanuel – “…She will give birth to a son and will call him
       Immanuel, which means 'God with us.’” Is. 7:14
       * Indescribable Gift – “Thanks be to God for His indescribable
       gift.” 2 Cor. 9:15
       * Judge – “…he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the
       living and the dead.” Acts 10:42
       * King of Kings – “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the
       Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of
       kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and
       faithful.” Rev. 17:14
       * Lamb of God – “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him
       and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the
       world!” John 1:29
       * Light of the World – "I am the light of the world. Whoever
       follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light
       of life." John 8:12
       * Lion of the Tribe of Judah – “Weep no more; behold, the Lion
       of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that
       he can open the scroll and its seven seals.” Rev. 5:5
       * Lord of All – “For this reason also, God highly exalted Him,
       and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that
       at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in
       heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue
       will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the
       Father.” Phil. 2:9-11
       Here is what Jesus is not: God the Father, even though many
       Bible versions put that in like in Revelations, and other NT
       books, to keep the Trinity-gods alive.
       * Christ is our Mediator – “For there is one God, and one
       mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Tim. 2:5
       the above would make no sense through Trinity translation: For
       there is one God, and mediator God between God and men, the
       man-God Christ Jesus.
       What I have noticed over the years is that even those who oppose
       the Bible, even the ones who claim to be atheist have defended
       the Trinity Doctrine!? Why is that?
       God bless
       Arius
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]You left out something. No not a name but just
       as important.
       Isa 22:23..."And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place;
       and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house."
       Blade[/shadow]
       #Post#: 3862--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest43
       Date: February 12, 2019, 5:57 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Arius link=topic=317.msg3819#msg3819
       date=1549859451]
       > [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=317.msg3815#msg3815
       date=1549853905]
       > [quote author=Arius link=topic=317.msg3811#msg3811
       date=1549846900]
       > [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=317.msg3802#msg3802
       date=1549833742]
       > I had to stop reading when you said that the angel of the Lord
       is God. That right there takes a bigger leap of faith than the
       trinity because the words are clear, It was an angel OF the Lord
       - NOT The Lord
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I know, .. that's what I'm talking about, if Jesus is a god, the
       Holy Spirit is another god, the Father is yet another, then why
       not the Angel of the Lord?
       When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see and talk to a
       bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or did he come
       before God Himself?
       a) Moses spoke to God
       b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       All three are Biblically legitimate answers.
       If you choose "a" above, then why do Trinitarians misunderstand
       the verse 28 here in John?
       John 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again,
       and Thomas was with them.
       Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them
       and said, “Peace be with you!”
       27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands.
       Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and
       believe.”
       28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
       29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have
       believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have
       believed.”
       Love you all.
       PS
       Remember that;
       I'm just a fool whose intentions are good
       Oh Lord,
       Please don't let me be misunderstood!
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]
       If you would read the Bible literally, you would find out Jesus
       Christ has many names.
       Blade[/shadow]
       [/quote]
       I agree, something like 50 names, here is a few,
       * Alpha and Omega – “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and
       the Last, the Beginning and the End.” Rev. 22:13
       * Advocate – “My dear children, I write this to you so that you
       will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with
       the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.” 1 John 2:1
       * Author and Perfecter of Our Faith – “Fixing our eyes on Jesus,
       the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before
       Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at
       the right hand of the throne of God.” Heb. 12:2
       * Authority – “Jesus said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth
       has been given to me.” Matt. 28:18
       * Bread of Life – “Then Jesus declared, ‘I am the bread of life.
       Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes
       in me will never be thirsty.’” John 6:35
       * Beloved Son of God – “And behold, a voice from heaven said,
       “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matt.
       3:17
       * Bridegroom – “And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests
       mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come
       when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will
       fast.” Matt. 9:15
       * Chief Cornerstone – “The stone which the builders rejected has
       become the chief corner stone.” Ps. 118:22
       * Deliverer – “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he
       raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to
       come.” 1 Thess.1:10
       * Immanuel – “…She will give birth to a son and will call him
       Immanuel, which means 'God with us.’” Is. 7:14
       * Indescribable Gift – “Thanks be to God for His indescribable
       gift.” 2 Cor. 9:15
       * Judge – “…he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the
       living and the dead.” Acts 10:42
       * King of Kings – “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the
       Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of
       kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and
       faithful.” Rev. 17:14
       * Lamb of God – “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him
       and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the
       world!” John 1:29
       * Light of the World – "I am the light of the world. Whoever
       follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light
       of life." John 8:12
       * Lion of the Tribe of Judah – “Weep no more; behold, the Lion
       of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that
       he can open the scroll and its seven seals.” Rev. 5:5
       * Lord of All – “For this reason also, God highly exalted Him,
       and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that
       at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in
       heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue
       will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the
       Father.” Phil. 2:9-11
       Here is what Jesus is not: God the Father, even though many
       Bible versions put that in like in Revelations, and other NT
       books, to keep the Trinity-gods alive.
       * Christ is our Mediator – “For there is one God, and one
       mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Tim. 2:5
       the above would make no sense through Trinity translation: For
       there is one God, and mediator God between God and men, the
       man-God Christ Jesus.
       What I have noticed over the years is that even those who oppose
       the Bible, even the ones who claim to be atheist have defended
       the Trinity Doctrine!? Why is that?
       God bless
       Arius
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]You left out something. No not a name but just
       as important.
       Isa 22:23..."And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place;
       and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house."
       Blade[/shadow]
       [/quote]
       Yes, I guess I did leave  "throne to his Fathers house" out,
       thank you.
       I guess that does make him God.
       Can you answer my previous question?
       --- Quote ---
       > arius asked - When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see
       and talk to a bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or
       did he come before God Himself?
       >
       > a) Moses spoke to God
       > b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       > c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       --- End Quote ---
       #Post#: 3926--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest8
       Date: February 15, 2019, 8:11 pm
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Arius link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=317.msg3821#msg3821
       date=1549860764]
       > [quote author=Arius link=topic=317.msg3819#msg3819
       date=1549859451]
       > [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=317.msg3815#msg3815
       date=1549853905]
       > [quote author=Arius link=topic=317.msg3811#msg3811
       date=1549846900]
       > [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=317.msg3802#msg3802
       date=1549833742]
       > I had to stop reading when you said that the angel of the Lord
       is God. That right there takes a bigger leap of faith than the
       trinity because the words are clear, It was an angel OF the Lord
       - NOT The Lord
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       I know, .. that's what I'm talking about, if Jesus is a god, the
       Holy Spirit is another god, the Father is yet another, then why
       not the Angel of the Lord?
       When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see and talk to a
       bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or did he come
       before God Himself?
       a) Moses spoke to God
       b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       All three are Biblically legitimate answers.
       If you choose "a" above, then why do Trinitarians misunderstand
       the verse 28 here in John?
       John 20:26 A week later his disciples were in the house again,
       and Thomas was with them.
       Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them
       and said, “Peace be with you!”
       27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands.
       Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and
       believe.”
       28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
       29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have
       believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have
       believed.”
       Love you all.
       PS
       Remember that;
       I'm just a fool whose intentions are good
       Oh Lord,
       Please don't let me be misunderstood!
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]
       If you would read the Bible literally, you would find out Jesus
       Christ has many names.
       Blade[/shadow]
       [/quote]
       I agree, something like 50 names, here is a few,
       * Alpha and Omega – “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and
       the Last, the Beginning and the End.” Rev. 22:13
       * Advocate – “My dear children, I write this to you so that you
       will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with
       the Father--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.” 1 John 2:1
       * Author and Perfecter of Our Faith – “Fixing our eyes on Jesus,
       the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before
       Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at
       the right hand of the throne of God.” Heb. 12:2
       * Authority – “Jesus said, ‘All authority in heaven and on earth
       has been given to me.” Matt. 28:18
       * Bread of Life – “Then Jesus declared, ‘I am the bread of life.
       Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes
       in me will never be thirsty.’” John 6:35
       * Beloved Son of God – “And behold, a voice from heaven said,
       “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” Matt.
       3:17
       * Bridegroom – “And Jesus said to them, “Can the wedding guests
       mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? The days will come
       when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will
       fast.” Matt. 9:15
       * Chief Cornerstone – “The stone which the builders rejected has
       become the chief corner stone.” Ps. 118:22
       * Deliverer – “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he
       raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to
       come.” 1 Thess.1:10
       * Immanuel – “…She will give birth to a son and will call him
       Immanuel, which means 'God with us.’” Is. 7:14
       * Indescribable Gift – “Thanks be to God for His indescribable
       gift.” 2 Cor. 9:15
       * Judge – “…he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the
       living and the dead.” Acts 10:42
       * King of Kings – “These will wage war against the Lamb, and the
       Lamb will overcome them, because He is Lord of lords and King of
       kings, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and
       faithful.” Rev. 17:14
       * Lamb of God – “The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him
       and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the
       world!” John 1:29
       * Light of the World – "I am the light of the world. Whoever
       follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light
       of life." John 8:12
       * Lion of the Tribe of Judah – “Weep no more; behold, the Lion
       of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that
       he can open the scroll and its seven seals.” Rev. 5:5
       * Lord of All – “For this reason also, God highly exalted Him,
       and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that
       at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in
       heaven and on earth and under the earth, and that every tongue
       will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the
       Father.” Phil. 2:9-11
       Here is what Jesus is not: God the Father, even though many
       Bible versions put that in like in Revelations, and other NT
       books, to keep the Trinity-gods alive.
       * Christ is our Mediator – “For there is one God, and one
       mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” 1 Tim. 2:5
       the above would make no sense through Trinity translation: For
       there is one God, and mediator God between God and men, the
       man-God Christ Jesus.
       What I have noticed over the years is that even those who oppose
       the Bible, even the ones who claim to be atheist have defended
       the Trinity Doctrine!? Why is that?
       God bless
       Arius
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]You left out something. No not a name but just
       as important.
       Isa 22:23..."And I will fasten him as a nail in a sure place;
       and he shall be for a glorious throne to his father's house."
       Blade[/shadow]
       [/quote]
       Yes, I guess I did leave  "throne to his Fathers house" out,
       thank you.
       I guess that does make him God.
       Can you answer my previous question?
       --- Quote ---
       > arius asked - When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see
       and talk to a bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or
       did he come before God Himself?
       >
       > a) Moses spoke to God
       > b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       > c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       --- End Quote ---
       [/quote]
       [shadow=blue,left]A trick question to be sure.
       In Exodus 3:2.."And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a
       flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and,
       behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not
       consumed."
       In Exodus 3:3.."And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see
       this great sight, why the bush is not burnt."
       In Exodus 3:4..."And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to
       see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said,
       Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I."
       In Exodus 3:6.."Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father,
       the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And
       Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
       So the answer to you question is all of the above>
       Am going to wait and see where you are going to take this.
       Blade[/shadow]
       #Post#: 3935--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest43
       Date: February 16, 2019, 3:12 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Arius link=topic=317.msg3862#msg3862
       date=1550015863]
       --- End Quote ---
       Can you answer my previous question?
       --- Quote ---
       > arius asked - When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see
       and talk to a bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or
       did he come before God Himself?
       >
       > a) Moses spoke to God
       > b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       > c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       --- End Quote ---
       [/quote]
       --- Quote ---
       > [shadow=blue,left]A trick question to be sure.
       >
       > In Exodus 3:2.."And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in
       a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and,
       behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not
       consumed."
       >
       > In Exodus 3:3.."And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see
       this great sight, why the bush is not burnt."
       >
       > In Exodus 3:4..."And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to
       see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said,
       Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I."
       >
       > In Exodus 3:6.."Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father,
       the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And
       Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
       >
       > So the answer to you question is all of the above>
       --- End Quote ---
       So why isn't the "Bush on Fire that didn't burn up, and the
       Angel of the Lord are not included in the Trinity-gods as well
       as all the other Angels/Thunder/Still Small Voice etc. that God
       was speaking through?
       Deuteronomy 4:14 And the Lord directed me at that time to teach
       you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you
       are crossing the Jordan to possess.
       Idolatry Forbidden
       15 You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at
       Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very
       carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for
       yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a
       man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that
       flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the
       ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up
       to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the
       heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and
       worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the
       nations under heaven.
       --- Quote ---
       > Am going to wait and see where you are going to take this.
       >
       > Blade[/shadow]
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Well, I was hoping that you see that in the Trinity-gods God is
       a God, the son is a God, and the Holy Spirit is a God, and now
       you say, the two others above are God also?
       How about this; remember Jesus saying:
       John 14:9  (NIV)
       9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have
       been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen
       the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
       Now imagine Moses up on the Mountain of God as he is trembling
       and kneeling before the Fiery Angel of the Lord in the Bush that
       won't burn up asking the Angel: "Can you show me God, so I could
       tell the Children of Israel back in Egypt that I have seen and
       talked to their Heavenly Father God?"
       What do you think the Angel of the Lord would tell Moses? Maybe
       something like this?
       "Don’t you know me, Moses, even after I have been talking to you
       on this mountain for such a long time? Anyone who has seen me
       has seen God. So how can you say, ‘Show me the Father so when I
       go back to Egypt I could tell the Children of Israel I seen
       Him’!?
       Do you see it now my friend?
       John 1:14 (NKJV)
       14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld
       His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full
       of grace and truth.
       … 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who
       is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
       So just as the Fiery Angel of the Lord declared/revealed God to
       Moses, the son Word came down, became flesh and
       declared/revealed God to us.
       In both cases it was God speaking, but we don't make them God,
       or parts that make up who God is, right?
       I mean we hope when people see and talk to us, that they "see
       God in us", .. right?
       1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of
       God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone
       defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple
       of God is holy, which temple you are.
       Take care my friend!
       in the spirit of
       Arius
       #Post#: 3939--------------------------------------------------
       Re: As A Man Thinketh... 
   DIR By: guest8
       Date: February 16, 2019, 10:17 am
       ---------------------------------------------------------
       --- Quote from: Arius link ---
       >
       > [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=317.msg3926#msg3926
       date=1550283066]
       > [quote author=Arius link=topic=317.msg3862#msg3862
       date=1550015863]
       --- End Quote ---
       Can you answer my previous question?
       --- Quote ---
       > arius asked - When Moses went up the mountain, did he go see
       and talk to a bush that was on fire, an Angel of the Lord, or
       did he come before God Himself?
       >
       > a) Moses spoke to God
       > b) Moses spoke to the Angel of the Lord
       > c) Moses spoke to a bush on fire that didn't burn up
       --- End Quote ---
       [/quote]
       --- Quote ---
       > [shadow=blue,left]A trick question to be sure.
       >
       > In Exodus 3:2.."And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in
       a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and,
       behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not
       consumed."
       >
       > In Exodus 3:3.."And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see
       this great sight, why the bush is not burnt."
       >
       > In Exodus 3:4..."And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to
       see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said,
       Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I."
       >
       > In Exodus 3:6.."Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father,
       the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And
       Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
       >
       > So the answer to you question is all of the above>
       --- End Quote ---
       So why isn't the "Bush on Fire that didn't burn up, and the
       Angel of the Lord are not included in the Trinity-gods as well
       as all the other Angels/Thunder/Still Small Voice etc. that God
       was speaking through?
       Deuteronomy 4:14 And the Lord directed me at that time to teach
       you the decrees and laws you are to follow in the land that you
       are crossing the Jordan to possess.
       Idolatry Forbidden
       15 You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at
       Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very
       carefully, 16 so that you do not become corrupt and make for
       yourselves an idol, an image of any shape, whether formed like a
       man or a woman, 17 or like any animal on earth or any bird that
       flies in the air, 18 or like any creature that moves along the
       ground or any fish in the waters below. 19 And when you look up
       to the sky and see the sun, the moon and the stars—all the
       heavenly array—do not be enticed into bowing down to them and
       worshiping things the Lord your God has apportioned to all the
       nations under heaven.
       --- Quote ---
       > Am going to wait and see where you are going to take this.
       >
       > Blade[/shadow]
       >
       --- End Quote ---
       Well, I was hoping that you see that in the Trinity-gods God is
       a God, the son is a God, and the Holy Spirit is a God, and now
       you say, the two others above are God also?
       How about this; remember Jesus saying:
       John 14:9  (NIV)
       9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have
       been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen
       the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
       Now imagine Moses up on the Mountain of God as he is trembling
       and kneeling before the Fiery Angel of the Lord in the Bush that
       won't burn up asking the Angel: "Can you show me God, so I could
       tell the Children of Israel back in Egypt that I have seen and
       talked to their Heavenly Father God?"
       What do you think the Angel of the Lord would tell Moses? Maybe
       something like this?
       "Don’t you know me, Moses, even after I have been talking to you
       on this mountain for such a long time? Anyone who has seen me
       has seen God. So how can you say, ‘Show me the Father so when I
       go back to Egypt I could tell the Children of Israel I seen
       Him’!?
       Do you see it now my friend?
       John 1:14 (NKJV)
       14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld
       His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full
       of grace and truth.
       … 18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who
       is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
       I mean we hope when people see and talk to us, that they "see
       God in us", .. right?
       1 Corinthians 3:16 Do you not know that you are the temple of
       God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone
       defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple
       of God is holy, which temple you are.
       Take care my friend!
       in the spirit of
       Arius
       [/quote]
       Interesting Arius....you are now recognizing Jesus as GOD?  BUT
       then you try to turn it into ---> three are separate GODs!.
       ****
       you said:" "Can you show me God, so I could tell the Children of
       Israel back in Egypt that I have seen and talked to their
       Heavenly Father God?""
       Maybe you could contact those who write the NIV Version of the
       Bible and sell them the above statement. It would fit right in
       that book!
       ****
       you said:"So just as the Fiery Angel of the Lord
       declared/revealed God to Moses, the son Word came down, became
       flesh and declared/revealed God to us.
       In both cases it was God speaking, but we don't make them God,
       or parts that make up who God is, right?"
       According to you, I must call the "Angel of the Lord" another
       GOD
       
       John 14:7.."If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father
       also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him."
       If you will back up 2 verses of John 14, you will see what Jesus
       is telling you. Then, if you back another verse, you can see
       what Jesus is telling you, what you have to do to get Salvation?
       John 14:6.."Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and
       the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."
       Here again, you are speaking in circles: "In both cases it was
       God speaking"  Yes, in both cases it was GOD speaking. I agree
       to this!
       "but we don't make them God, or parts that make up who God is,
       right?""
       Wrong!!! Jesus is GOD as is the Holy Spirit.   In many places of
       the NT, Jesus tells the apostles:
       Mat 28:19.."Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing
       them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy
       Ghost:"
       The bottom line is, you do not believe in GOD, The SON and the
       HOLY Spirit. Yet, you claim salvation?    Interesting
       Blade
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