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#Post#: 3201--------------------------------------------------
On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
By: bernardpyron Date: January 15, 2019, 11:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
Bernard Pyron
Revelation 13: 11 says the second beast has two horns like a
lamb, but speaks like a dragon. "And I beheld another beast
coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb,
and he spake as a dragon."
A lamb has two horns? How does the dragon speak? In Genesis 3
the "serpent" "was more subtle than any beast in the field," and
he used the dialectic on Eve, saying in effect lets talk about
you eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "Lets
have a dialog." "And come to a consensus."
Satan used Dragon Speak on Eve in Genesis3: 1-6 to fix her
obedience to God: "Now the serpent was more subtil than any
beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto
the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of
the garden? 2. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat
of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3. But of the fruit of
the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye
shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5.
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes
shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and
that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to
make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and
gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."
The big mistake that Eve made was to enter into a dialog with
Satan. When Christ was tempted by Satan (Matthew 4: 4-10), he
did not dialog with him, but answered "It is written," citing
absolute truths from scripture. So Satan was defeated when he
tried to work the dialectic on Jesus Christ.
Genesis 3:1-6 shows that Dragon Speak - which is the dialectic -
depends upon a dialogue being established in a conversation.
God's way of communicating has always been the didactic, not the
dialectic. When Satan tempted Christ in Matthew 4: 3-11, the
dialectic didn't work on Jesus. It didn't move him one inch off
his absolute truth. He answered the devil with the didactic, "It
is written" (Matthew 4: 10).
Then in John 8 the Pharisees tried to use the dialectic on Jesus
and that did not work too well either.
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye
continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32. And ye
shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in
bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?"
John 8: 31-33
" I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me,
because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I
have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with
your father. 39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our
father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye
would do the works of Abraham. " John 8: 37-39
Christ is engaged in a dialogue with the Pharisees, but Christ
is teaching them the Truth of his Gospel, which they oppose, by
saying that Abraham is their father.
Here, Christ is stating the thesis, that is, his Gospel. And
the Pharisees are opposing that thesis by the anti-thesis, which
is that Abraham is their physical father.
Finally in John 8: 43-45 Christ says to the Pharisees, " Why do
ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my
word. 44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When
he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and
the father of it. 45. And because I tell you the truth, ye
believe me not."
Here the Absolute Truth was Christ standing before them, and
Christ was doing a dialogue with them. The Pharisees were
opposing Christ as the Absolute Truth before them, and opposing
him in arguing for their old belief system which dealt with that
which is merely physical. Christ was talking to them about that
which is spiritual. But they could not understand him, Their
arguments did not change Christ's position.
Marx and then Freud decided that there is no God and Marx began
to say there is no absolute truth and no absolute morality.
Everything is an opinion. Remember the "Hegelian dialectic?"
Remember "dialectical materialism" in Marxism?
Marx said "In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is
established for all time, nothing is absolute or sacred."
As a young intellectual, Marx as an athiest was a member of the
Young Hegelians Movement. This is where Marx got his interest in
the Hegelian dialectic, which was a modern German philosophical
takeoff from the dialectic of Greek philosophy before the time
of Christ.
The young Marx was influenced strongly by the Jacobins of the
French Revolution, who were the guys who sent so many to the
Guillotine.
In the Soviet Union the Marxist version of the Hegelian
Dialectic was made into a propaganda weapon. Then, the German
Frankfurt School mixed Marx with Freud and later with American
social and personality psychology, while keeping the dialectic
as the basis of Transformational Marxism.
There is a text in the New Testament which, in the Greek,
mentions the dialectic. This is I Timothy 6: 20-21.
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding
profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely
so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the
faith. Grace be with thee. Amen"
The key part in Greek says "και
αντιθεσεις
της
ψευδωνυμου
γνωσεως,or "and anti-thesis
of falsely called knowledge."
αντιθεσεις, or
anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy
of the
διαλεκτική, or
dialectic, before the time of Christ.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic
"Dialectic (also dialectics and the dialectical method), from
Ancient Greek
διαλεκτική, is
a method of argument.....The word dialectic originated in
ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato in the Socratic
dialogues."
"In classical philosophy, dialectic (Greek:
διαλεκτική) is
a form of reasoning based upon dialogue of arguments and
counter-arguments, advocating propositions (theses) and
counter-propositions (antitheses)."
"Aristotle said that it was the pre-Socratic philosopher Zeno of
Elea who invented dialectic, of which the dialogues of Plato are
the examples of the Socratic dialectical method."
The dialectic is a form of deception and the Marxist version of
the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and
attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major
institutions,including the churches, in the 20th century.
In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and
absolute Morality.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis...sis,_synthesis
"Hegel used the "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" idea only once,
and he attributed the terminology to Immanuel Kant. The
terminology was largely developed by Johann Gottlieb Fichte,
also an advocate of the philosophy identified as German
idealism. "
"Karl Marx (1818-1883) and Friedrich Engels (1820-1895) adopted
and extended the triad, especially in Marx's The Poverty of
Philosophy (1847). Here, in Chapter 2, Marx is obsessed by the
word "thesis". It can be said to form an important part of the
basis for the Marxist theory..."
The Marxist version of the dialectic - which is atheistic and
without morality - is common to both the contemporary American
political Left in its Marxism, and to dialogue within
Christianity, especially in debate about Church theologies.
I got booted out of Talk Jesus for posting quotes from Dean
Gotcher on the Christian use of the dialectic.
Dispensationalists react strongly against teachings about the
use of the dialectic. I Timothy 6: 20-21 with its use of the
Greek word
αντιθεσεις, or
anti-theseis is often rejected by dispensationalists as a
warning against the use of the dialectic by Paul, and they may
argue that the King James Version translation of I Timothy 6:
20-21 is not a warning against use of the dialectic.
On
HTML https://biblehub.com/greek/477.htm
αντιθεσεις,
Strong's number 477, means "a proposition, tenet, opinion
advanced by one party against another; opposition."
Marx is said to have "turned Hegel on his head" in making the
dialectic of Hegel atheistic and without morality.
The dialectic as a procedure for winning arguments or changing
the attitudes and beliefs of people depends upon establishing a
dialogue. The opposition argument, or anti-thesis, argues in
direct opposition to a position,which for Hegel is called the
thesis. The opposition to the thesis is the anti-thesis. There
are many specific tactics of the dialectic.
Dean Gotcher says that now in the Christian churches it is like
the time right before the Flood of Noah. Gotcher then says God
does not speak into the pre-flood dialectic mind.
On
HTML http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/dialectic-gotcher.htm
Dean Gotcher says "God cannot speak into the pre-flood, Tower of
Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, dialectic mind..."
Gotcher teaches that "The dialectic is man thinking through his
feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will
judge the
world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be
also
in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26)
He is saying that we are entering a time now which is similar to
that time mentioned in Luke 17: 26-28 during the Pre-Flood,
Tower of Babel and Sodom and Gomarrah time periods when people
had a form of the dialectic mind.
O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust,
avoiding profane [and] vain babblings, and oppositions of
science falsely so called: which some professing have erred
concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen." 1 Timothy
6:20-21
See:
HTML https://www.authorityresearch.com/Snippets/Reasoning-Deductive.html
Dean Gotcher quotes I Timothy 6: 20 in the King James and makes
a comment: "Avoid the oppositions (antithesis) of so-called
science―the antithesis of so-named gnosis (knowing,)
και
αντιθεσεις
της
ψευδωνυμου
γνωσεως,―whereby those
who use this process loose their faith. What is of concern to
me is that the "church" is using the latter form of reasoning,
the one Paul warned us about."
"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve
through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the
simplicity that is in Christ." 2 Corinthians 11:3
#Post#: 3210--------------------------------------------------
Re: On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
By: guest8 Date: January 15, 2019, 10:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=bernardpyron link=topic=303.msg3201#msg3201
date=1547574075]
On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
Bernard Pyron
Revelation 13: 11 says the second beast has two horns like a
lamb, but speaks like a dragon. "And I beheld another beast
coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb,
and he spake as a dragon."
A lamb has two horns? How does the dragon speak? In Genesis 3
the "serpent" "was more subtle than any beast in the field," and
he used the dialectic on Eve, saying in effect lets talk about
you eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. "Lets
have a dialog." "And come to a consensus."
Satan used Dragon Speak on Eve in Genesis3: 1-6 to fix her
obedience to God: "Now the serpent was more subtil than any
beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto
the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of
the garden? 2. And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat
of the fruit of the trees of the garden: 3. But of the fruit of
the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye
shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. 4.
And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: 5.
For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes
shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
6. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and
that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to
make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and
gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat."
The big mistake that Eve made was to enter into a dialog with
Satan. When Christ was tempted by Satan (Matthew 4: 4-10), he
did not dialog with him, but answered "It is written," citing
absolute truths from scripture. So Satan was defeated when he
tried to work the dialectic on Jesus Christ.
Genesis 3:1-6 shows that Dragon Speak - which is the dialectic -
depends upon a dialogue being established in a conversation.
God's way of communicating has always been the didactic, not the
dialectic. When Satan tempted Christ in Matthew 4: 3-11, the
dialectic didn't work on Jesus. It didn't move him one inch off
his absolute truth. He answered the devil with the didactic, "It
is written" (Matthew 4: 10).
Then in John 8 the Pharisees tried to use the dialectic on Jesus
and that did not work too well either.
"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye
continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32. And ye
shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 33.
They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in
bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?"
John 8: 31-33
" I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me,
because my word hath no place in you. 38. I speak that which I
have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with
your father. 39. They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our
father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye
would do the works of Abraham. " John 8: 37-39
Christ is engaged in a dialogue with the Pharisees, but Christ
is teaching them the Truth of his Gospel, which they oppose, by
saying that Abraham is their father.
Here, Christ is stating the thesis, that is, his Gospel. And
the Pharisees are opposing that thesis by the anti-thesis, which
is that Abraham is their physical father.
Finally in John 8: 43-45 Christ says to the Pharisees, " Why do
ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my
word. 44. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your
father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and
abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When
he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and
the father of it. 45. And because I tell you the truth, ye
believe me not."
Here the Absolute Truth was Christ standing before them, and
Christ was doing a dialogue with them. The Pharisees were
opposing Christ as the Absolute Truth before them, and opposing
him in arguing for their old belief system which dealt with that
which is merely physical. Christ was talking to them about that
which is spiritual. But they could not understand him, Their
arguments did not change Christ's position.
Marx and then Freud decided that there is no God and Marx began
to say there is no absolute truth and no absolute morality.
Everything is an opinion. Remember the "Hegelian dialectic?"
Remember "dialectical materialism" in Marxism?
Marx said "In the eyes of the dialectical philosophy, nothing is
established for all time, nothing is absolute or sacred."
As a young intellectual, Marx as an athiest was a member of the
Young Hegelians Movement. This is where Marx got his interest in
the Hegelian dialectic, which was a modern German philosophical
takeoff from the dialectic of Greek philosophy before the time
of Christ.
The young Marx was influenced strongly by the Jacobins of the
French Revolution, who were the guys who sent so many to the
Guillotine.
In the Soviet Union the Marxist version of the Hegelian
Dialectic was made into a propaganda weapon. Then, the German
Frankfurt School mixed Marx with Freud and later with American
social and personality psychology, while keeping the dialectic
as the basis of Transformational Marxism.
There is a text in the New Testament which, in the Greek,
mentions the dialectic. This is I Timothy 6: 20-21.
"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding
profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely
so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the
faith. Grace be with thee. Amen"
The key part in Greek says "και
αντιθεσεις
της
ψευδωνυμου
γνωσεως,or "and anti-thesis
of falsely called knowledge."
αντιθεσεις, or
anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek philosophy
of the
διαλεκτική, or
dialectic, before the time of Christ.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic
"Dialectic (also dialectics and the dialectical method), from
Ancient Greek
διαλεκτική, is
a method of argument.....The word dialectic originated in
ancient Greece, and was made popular by Plato in the Socratic
dialogues."
"In classical philosophy, dialectic (Greek:
διαλεκτική) is
a form of reasoning based upon dialogue of arguments and
counter-arguments, advocating propositions (theses) and
counter-propositions (antitheses)."
"Aristotle said that it was the pre-Socratic philosopher Zeno of
Elea who invented dialectic, of which the dialogues of Plato are
the examples of the Socratic dialectical method."
The dialectic is a form of deception and the Marxist version of
the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a belief and
attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the major
institutions,including the churches, in the 20th century.
In Marxism the dialectic is used to overthrow absolute Truth and
absolute Morality.
HTML https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thesis...sis,_synthesis
"Hegel used the "thesis-antithesis-synthesis" idea only once,
and he attributed the terminology to Immanuel Kant. The
terminology was largely developed by Johann Gottlieb Fichte,
also an advocate of the philosophy identified as German
idealism. "
"Karl Marx (1818-1883) and Friedrich Engels (1820-1895) adopted
and extended the triad, especially in Marx's The Poverty of
Philosophy (1847). Here, in Chapter 2, Marx is obsessed by the
word "thesis". It can be said to form an important part of the
basis for the Marxist theory..."
The Marxist version of the dialectic - which is atheistic and
without morality - is common to both the contemporary American
political Left in its Marxism, and to dialogue within
Christianity, especially in debate about Church theologies.
I got booted out of Talk Jesus for posting quotes from Dean
Gotcher on the Christian use of the dialectic.
Dispensationalists react strongly against teachings about the
use of the dialectic. I Timothy 6: 20-21 with its use of the
Greek word
αντιθεσεις, or
anti-theseis is often rejected by dispensationalists as a
warning against the use of the dialectic by Paul, and they may
argue that the King James Version translation of I Timothy 6:
20-21 is not a warning against use of the dialectic.
On
HTML https://biblehub.com/greek/477.htm
αντιθεσεις,
Strong's number 477, means "a proposition, tenet, opinion
advanced by one party against another; opposition."
Marx is said to have "turned Hegel on his head" in making the
dialectic of Hegel atheistic and without morality.
The dialectic as a procedure for winning arguments or changing
the attitudes and beliefs of people depends upon establishing a
dialogue. The opposition argument, or anti-thesis, argues in
direct opposition to a position,which for Hegel is called the
thesis. The opposition to the thesis is the anti-thesis. There
are many specific tactics of the dialectic.
Dean Gotcher says that now in the Christian churches it is like
the time right before the Flood of Noah. Gotcher then says God
does not speak into the pre-flood dialectic mind.
On
HTML http://www.crossroad.to/Quotes/brainwashing/dialectic-gotcher.htm
Dean Gotcher says "God cannot speak into the pre-flood, Tower of
Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, dialectic mind..."
Gotcher teaches that "The dialectic is man thinking through his
feelings. This is the reason God flooded the world and will
judge the
world again. "And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be
also
in the days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26)
He is saying that we are entering a time now which is similar to
that time mentioned in Luke 17: 26-28 during the Pre-Flood,
Tower of Babel and Sodom and Gomarrah time periods when people
had a form of the dialectic mind.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
As usual, you have again mistranslated God's WORD...... The
Dragon (Satan) as the Lamb (comes to earth as a lamb (like
Jesus) and He will have many follow him as the Messiah. When the
second beast comes out of the earth (false Prophet, The pope),
He will evangelize for the Dragon and a one world religion. The
world will respond in like as most of the 7 billion people will
convert over.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 16746--------------------------------------------------
Re: On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
By: patrick jane Date: August 28, 2020, 3:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
lol
#Post#: 19767--------------------------------------------------
Re: On Dragon Speak - The Dialectic
By: patrick jane Date: October 29, 2020, 1:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=303.msg16746#msg16746
date=1598645752]
lol
[/quote] :D
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