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#Post#: 3158--------------------------------------------------
Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scripture
s
By: bernardpyron Date: January 12, 2019, 6:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament
Scriptures
Bernard Pyron
I Timothy 6: 3-4 says "If any man teach otherwise, and consent
not to wholesome
words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the
doctrine
which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,
but
doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh
envy,
strife, railings, evil surmisings." "Strifes of words is from
logomachia.
This is a significant text, because what Paul is saying is that
those
who get off into doctrines that were not taught by Christ and
the
Apostles tend to get into logomachia, or strifes of words." Lets
see
what Strong's says about logomachia.
Logomachia is number 3055 in Strong's and is said to mean
"disputations, strife of words." Logomachia might be translated
as
"word fights."
I Timothy 6: 3-4, where Paul uses logomachia, is in the same
chapter - I Timothy 6 - where Paul briefly mentions in Greek,
the word
αντιθεσεις, or
anti-thesis, which brings up a type of argument which Paul warns
that should be avoided. That is, the "anti-thesis of falsely
called knowledge" Paul says to avoid.
An αντιθεσεις,
or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek
philosophy of the
διαλεκτική, or
dialectic, before the time of Christ. The dialectic is a way of
making an argument by use of a thesis which opposes and attacks
a antithesis, and an ongoing dialectic involves arguments and
counter arguments. The Truth in scripture can be seen as the
thesis while a false doctrine is the anti-thesis.
"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the
truth." II Timothy 3: 7
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound
doctrine; but
after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers,
having
itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the
truth, and shall be
turned unto fables." II Timothy 4: 3-4
John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5 and Ephesians 4: 4 deal with the
doctrine that God has one group of his elect, not two groups as
dispensationalism postulates. Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28,
as well as Ephesians 2: 11-15 focus on the doctrine that there
is a unity of all who are in faith, regardless of their
genetics, that is, that there is a unity between believing
Gentiles and believing Jews. This contradicts dispensationalim's
postulate that God has two separate peoples Old Covenant Israel
and the Church. Romans 2: 28-29 is a little more subtle, but
these two verses imply that there is a transformation for Jews
who come to faith in Christ, and for them things of the flesh,
are no longer important but things of the Spirit are important.
This is not in line with the dispensationalist system, which
apparently continues to honor the physical bloodline from
Abraham.
Romans 9: 6-8 says that not all of those of the physical
bloodline are the children of God, that is, of the elect, and
that the children only of the flesh, that is of the bloodline,
are not the children of God. Then I Corinthians 10: 18 affirms
again that there is a group under the Old Covenant who are of
the Bloodline but are not God's children.
Romans 11: 17-20 says that those of the physical Bloodline who
were in unbelief are cut off, contradicting the
dispensationalist position that all of the Bloodline are of the
elect. from their interpretation of Romans 11: 26 that "all
Israel shall be saved" means all of the bloodline, even though
Paul in Romans and in Romans 11 teaches that the elect are made
up of saved Jews (the remnant of Israel, Romans 11: 1-5) and
saved Gentiles.
II Corinthians 3: 6-11, Hebrews 10: 9, and Hebrews 8: 13 all say
that the Old Covenant was done away with, disagreeing with a
fundamental assumption of dispensationalism, that the Old
Covenant continues with its Old Covenant people, along with the
Church.
Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved
by faith and not by that which is physical, Paul says in
Galatians 3: 14 'That the blessings of Abraham might come on the
Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise
of the Spirit through faith. " "There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither male nor female : for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus."
#Post#: 3162--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: guest8 Date: January 12, 2019, 9:04 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=bernardpyron link=topic=302.msg3158#msg3158
date=1547340208]
Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament
Scriptures
Bernard Pyron
I Timothy 6: 3-4 says "If any man teach otherwise, and consent
not to wholesome
words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the
doctrine
which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing,
but
doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh
envy,
strife, railings, evil surmisings." "Strifes of words is from
logomachia.
This is a significant text, because what Paul is saying is that
those
who get off into doctrines that were not taught by Christ and
the
Apostles tend to get into logomachia, or strifes of words." Lets
see
what Strong's says about logomachia.
Logomachia is number 3055 in Strong's and is said to mean
"disputations, strife of words." Logomachia might be translated
as
"word fights."
I Timothy 6: 3-4, where Paul uses logomachia, is in the same
chapter - I Timothy 6 - where Paul briefly mentions in Greek,
the word
αντιθεσεις, or
anti-thesis, which brings up a type of argument which Paul warns
that should be avoided. That is, the "anti-thesis of falsely
called knowledge" Paul says to avoid.
An αντιθεσεις,
or anti-thesis, is a technical term in the early Greek
philosophy of the
διαλεκτική, or
dialectic, before the time of Christ. The dialectic is a way of
making an argument by use of a thesis which opposes and attacks
a antithesis, and an ongoing dialectic involves arguments and
counter arguments. The Truth in scripture can be seen as the
thesis while a false doctrine is the anti-thesis.
"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the
truth." II Timothy 3: 7
"For the time will come when they will not endure sound
doctrine; but
after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers,
having
itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the
truth, and shall be
turned unto fables." II Timothy 4: 3-4
John 10: 16, Romans 12: 4-5 and Ephesians 4: 4 deal with the
doctrine that God has one group of his elect, not two groups as
dispensationalism postulates. Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28,
as well as Ephesians 2: 11-15 focus on the doctrine that there
is a unity of all who are in faith, regardless of their
genetics, that is, that there is a unity between believing
Gentiles and believing Jews. This contradicts dispensationalim's
postulate that God has two separate peoples Old Covenant Israel
and the Church. Romans 2: 28-29 is a little more subtle, but
these two verses imply that there is a transformation for Jews
who come to faith in Christ, and for them things of the flesh,
are no longer important but things of the Spirit are important.
This is not in line with the dispensationalist system, which
apparently continues to honor the physical bloodline from
Abraham.
Romans 9: 6-8 says that not all of those of the physical
bloodline are the children of God, that is, of the elect, and
that the children only of the flesh, that is of the bloodline,
are not the children of God. Then I Corinthians 10: 18 affirms
again that there is a group under the Old Covenant who are of
the Bloodline but are not God's children.
Romans 11: 17-20 says that those of the physical Bloodline who
were in unbelief are cut off, contradicting the
dispensationalist position that all of the Bloodline are of the
elect. from their interpretation of Romans 11: 26 that "all
Israel shall be saved" means all of the bloodline, even though
Paul in Romans and in Romans 11 teaches that the elect are made
up of saved Jews (the remnant of Israel, Romans 11: 1-5) and
saved Gentiles.
II Corinthians 3: 6-11, Hebrews 10: 9, and Hebrews 8: 13 all say
that the Old Covenant was done away with, disagreeing with a
fundamental assumption of dispensationalism, that the Old
Covenant continues with its Old Covenant people, along with the
Church.
Galatians 3: 3, 16-17, 27-29 say that God decides who is saved
by faith and not by that which is physical, Paul says in
Galatians 3: 14 'That the blessings of Abraham might come on the
Gentiles through Jesus Christ, that we might receive the promise
of the Spirit through faith. " "There is neither Jew nor Greek,
there is neither male nor female : for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus."
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Don't blame dispensationalism for your
disbelief. Romans has nothing to do with the Nation of Israel
that was partially blinded. It is the continuing gospel of Jesus
Christ that is for all true believers, both Gentile and Jew.
If you will read Isaiah, you will start to understand that God's
prophecy for Israel (the nation) is real and will happen.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 3169--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: bernardpyron Date: January 13, 2019, 9:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Many people who are critical of dispensationalism - and see that
many New Testament scriptures do not agree with it - were once
dispensationalists and woke up. But when I was high school age
in Texas I went to the local Southern Baptist Church for a time.
That preacher did not teach dispensationalism. What he taught
was more like Calvinism. I know this may suggest that I was
high school age about a hundred years ago. It was a time before
the sixties when W.A. Crisswell and other dispensationalists
took over the Southern Baptist Convention.
The point is that dispensationalists seem to believe that
because so many church members in the evangelical denominations
are fervent believers in dispensationalism, that the theology
must be correct. But in my lifetime there was a time before
the sixties when the Southern Baptists were not all
dispensationalists. Those who were not dispensationalists still
followed the Reformation theology that defined the Southern
Baptist beliefs in their earlier history, for example, during
the Great Awakening revivals of the 18th century.
I think that almost any one familiar with the New Testament and
also with the doctrines of dfispensationalism - and is honest -
would agree that Reformation Theology is closer to what the New
Testament teaches than is dispensationalism. The Reformation
recovered justification by faith and the necessity of being born
again to become a new creation by the Holy Spirit, in which
there is a real change in the individual. Dispensationalism is
more focused upon "rightly dividing" such as dividing saved Jews
and saved Gentiles, than it is with that transformation by the
Spirit.
"Don't blame dispensationalism for your disbelief. "
This is a little ambiguous. It could be read to say "Don't
blame dispensationalism for your disbelief in the Gospel of
Christ."
#Post#: 3176--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: guest8 Date: January 13, 2019, 8:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=bernardpyron link=topic=302.msg3169#msg3169
date=1547392317]
Many people who are critical of dispensationalism - and see that
many New Testament scriptures do not agree with it - were once
dispensationalists and woke up. But when I was high school age
in Texas I went to the local Southern Baptist Church for a time.
That preacher did not teach dispensationalism. What he taught
was more like Calvinism. I know this may suggest that I was
high school age about a hundred years ago. It was a time before
the sixties when W.A. Crisswell and other dispensationalists
took over the Southern Baptist Convention.
The point is that dispensationalists seem to believe that
because so many church members in the evangelical denominations
are fervent believers in dispensationalism, that the theology
must be correct. But in my lifetime there was a time before
the sixties when the Southern Baptists were not all
dispensationalists. Those who were not dispensationalists still
followed the Reformation theology that defined the Southern
Baptist beliefs in their earlier history, for example, during
the Great Awakening revivals of the 18th century.
I think that almost any one familiar with the New Testament and
also with the doctrines of dfispensationalism - and is honest -
would agree that Reformation Theology is closer to what the New
Testament teaches than is dispensationalism. The Reformation
recovered justification by faith and the necessity of being born
again to become a new creation by the Holy Spirit, in which
there is a real change in the individual. Dispensationalism is
more focused upon "rightly dividing" such as dividing saved Jews
and saved Gentiles, than it is with that transformation by the
Spirit.
"Don't blame dispensationalism for your disbelief. "
This is a little ambiguous. It could be read to say "Don't
blame dispensationalism for your disbelief in the Gospel of
Christ."
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left] bernardpyron:
As you were, I was also. The Reformation theology has its own
problems but that is another thread.
I am at best a leaky dispensationalist. I say that as I read the
Bible literally, historically and grammatically. The word
dispensation is Biblical and it is used four times in the KJV of
the Bible. (1 Cor 9:17: Eph 1:10;3:2: Col 1:25). God even tells
us to rightly divide the Bible in 2 Tim 2:15.
Most people change, add, delete God's WORD in order for it to
agree with their world view. Many world views place the Jewish
people within the Church(Bride / Body of Christ). They have for
some reason decided that GOD has taken the New Covenant away
from Israel and place them in the Church (Body of Christ).
God's (the Father) "chosen people" is Israel. It does not
matter how you put it; He states time and time again that He
will bring Israel back. He did this 1948 when Israel declared
herself a Nation. Immediately the next day Israel was attacked
from three different sides. Even though their army was virtually
non-existant, God did not let her fail even though some 1900+
years earlier He had partially blinded her and dispersed her
throughout the world.
Dispensation are periods of time where God's relationship with
the people of earth are vastly different from one period to
another. We see this in the Creation period where there was only
one commandment (not to eat the Fruit of the Tree of
Knowledge.). Another period of dispensation followed ending at
Noah's Flood. Another dispensation period followed the flood
where mankind was repopulating the earth through just six
people. When God chose Jacob, called him Israel and named His
sons as the tribes of Israel is the beginning of the LAW
dispensational period. This period ended at the Cross and the
death of Jesus Christ. This period known as the dispensation of
Grace is still going and will not stop until the Church (body of
Christ) is removed from this earth. Up till now we can account
for five dispensational periods. Yet, does any of them tell us
that Israel are now (unknown) to GOD. NO!
Let me put it this way, anyone on this earth who follows the
Gospel of Jesus Christ (according to scriptures, His WORD) will
be part of HIS Church spirtually until we are Raptured. This
will leave semi- believers and unbelievers on earth. By the way,
the generation will (ages 20 and under) who sees this happen
will see the 2nd advent of the Lord, that is if they are are not
killed first by wars, pestilences, starvation, earthquakes,
weather, etc.
Those who live through Daniel's 70th week, will be judged in the
sheep and goat judgement. For those Gentiles that make it
through this judgement, they will repopulate the earth for 1000.
There is a catch to this. Sometimes during the first hundred
years, they have to accept Christ as their Savior.
Somewhere we left behind the Jewish people. NO, not really!.
When the Son of Perdition/AntiChrist commits the AoD in the Holy
of Holies, the people within Jerusalem who see this and
believe in God/Jesus Christ (most asll Jewish) are to flee to
the Mountains south of Jerusalem. This is in Jordan and is known
as Petra. Here God protects, feeds and nourishes them until
Daniel's 70th week is finished. At the Beginning of the
Millennium (after those days), God instills HIS New Covenant
(The same covenant the Church (Body of Christ)) into their
Hearts as Heb 8:10; 10:16... Notice the "AFTER those DAYS"
clause here.
Gentiles and Jews alike during the millennium, will still have
their mortal bodies. The Church (Body of Christ), the
Tribulation Saints, the Old Testament Saints will have
translated Bodies not unlike that of Jesus Christ. Those who
live during the millennium will have mortal bodies but will live
forever.
Please notice, the Body of Christ is ONE, not divided Gentiles
and Jews. His Church is ONE, the Bride of Christ.
As far as NOT believing, I do believe in the Gospel of Jesus
Christ according to scripture (1 Cor 15:1-4). I leave out
nothing nor do I add nothing to His Word, the Bible (KJV).
For those old time preachers,( the ones you and I remember)
stretched theology out to increase their Churches attendance.
They for the most part made us believe that we were still under
the dispensation of Law and if we did not obey, we would go to
hell.
I am sorry, you had a bad time but all you have to do now is
realize, by removing the covenants from Israel to place them in
the Gentile Church is spewing most of the same theology they
did.
Might I say, one more thing about dispensations. If you
correctly divide the Bible, you wind up with seven (7)
dispensations from beginning (Creation) to the End (New Earth
and New Heaven) which would be 7,000 years since Creation. We
are now at 5,779 and counting.
Blade
[/shadow]
#Post#: 3184--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: bernardpyron Date: January 14, 2019, 9:50 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"He states time and time again that He will bring Israel back.
He did this 1948 when Israel declared herself a Nation."
I know that the re-establishment of the nation Israel in the
Middle East in 1948 is important for dispensationalism. But the
nation of Israel is under Talmudic Judaism, which is opposed to
Jesus Christ and his Gospel.
And dispensationalists are fixated upon making divisions and
they go way too far in making their divisions. The New
Testament teaches that the elect of God is one united people -
Ephesians 2: 11-16, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28.
Dispensationalism confuses this unity in its insistence on
making divisions.
"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an
eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so
that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall
meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas
Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..
In his book, Dispensationalism (1966), Charles Ryrie says "The
essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between
Israel
and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")
J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who
in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church
and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine
plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. (page
193,
J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).
But in the First Century, when Paul wrote, he did not make the
same kind of division between Israel and the Church as
dispensationalism makes. Paul made a distinction between Jews
and Gentiles according to their genetics and culture, but there
was only one Body of Christ, made up of saved Jews and saved
Gentiles.
Dispensationalism is too focused upon literal wordings rather
that on gist meanings. You have to be careful, though, about
stating gist meanings so that you are accurate.
On TOL yesterday I read part of a thread in which a
dispensationalist was trying to argue that because Paul did not
write about becoming "Born Again" in those exact words,
therefore Paul did not teach being born again. Jerry claimed
that Paul in Titus 3: 4-7 in using "rebirth" showed that he
agreed with John 3: 1-6 on being born again. The Problem though
is that Paul in texts other than Titus 3: 4-7 shows his
agreement with John 3: 1-6 in terms of the gist meaning of being
born again, though Paul did not use that exact language. For
example, in Romans 12: 2 Paul writes about being "transformed by
the renewing of your mind," by which Paul is explaining to some
extent what being born again means. Paul in II Corinthians 5:
7 and in Galatians 6: 15 writes about becoming a new creature or
new creation, which also indicates that Paul understands John 3:
1-6 and is again explaining in part what it means to be born
again.
Ephesians 2: 11-16 says a great deal about the unity of all who
are born again and are of the elect of God, and implies more.
"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the
flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the
Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12.
from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the
covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the
world:
13.
made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.
broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15.
commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of
twain one new man, so making peace;
16.
the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17.
and to them that were nigh."
In the past, Paul says, Gentiles in Uncircumcision and without
Christ were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers
from the covenants. But Gentiles can be made nigh to the
commonwealth of Israel by the blood of Christ.
Nigh means close. Gentiles can be made close to Israel by the
blood of Christ. Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28 confirm and
support their being made close to Israel by Christ.
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for
the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
Romans 10: 12
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus." Galatians 3: 28
In Ephesians 2: 12 Paul writes about Gentiles before being
strangers from the covenants. This implies that in Christ and
by his blood Gentiles who were before strangers from the
covenants are brought into the New Covenant, which Hebrews 8:
8-12 quoting Jeremiah 31: 31-34 says is for the house of Israel
and the house of Judah.
By being made a part of the commonwealth of Israel Gentiles who
were before aliens from Israel, partake also of the New
Covenant, with the remnant of Israel,
#Post#: 3189--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: guest8 Date: January 14, 2019, 3:51 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=bernardpyron link=topic=302.msg3184#msg3184
date=1547481002]
"He states time and time again that He will bring Israel back.
He did this 1948 when Israel declared herself a Nation."
I know that the re-establishment of the nation Israel in the
Middle East in 1948 is important for dispensationalism. But the
nation of Israel is under Talmudic Judaism, which is opposed to
Jesus Christ and his Gospel.
And dispensationalists are fixated upon making divisions and
they go way too far in making their divisions. The New
Testament teaches that the elect of God is one united people -
Ephesians 2: 11-16, Romans 10: 12, Galatians 3: 28.
Dispensationalism confuses this unity in its insistence on
making divisions.
"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an
eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so
that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall
meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas
Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..
In his book, Dispensationalism (1966), Charles Ryrie says "The
essence of Dispensationalism, then, is the distinction between
Israel
and the church." (page 3, "Dispensationalism")
J. Dwight Pentecost is another dispensationalist theologian who
in his
book Things To Come ( 1965) says "The church
and Israel are two distinct groups with whom God has a divine
plan.
The church is a mystery, unrevealed in the Old Testament. (page
193,
J. Dwight Pentecost, Things To Come, Zondervan, 1965).
But in the First Century, when Paul wrote, he did not make the
same kind of division between Israel and the Church as
dispensationalism makes. Paul made a distinction between Jews
and Gentiles according to their genetics and culture, but there
was only one Body of Christ, made up of saved Jews and saved
Gentiles.
Dispensationalism is too focused upon literal wordings rather
that on gist meanings. You have to be careful, though, about
stating gist meanings so that you are accurate.
On TOL yesterday I read part of a thread in which a
dispensationalist was trying to argue that because Paul did not
write about becoming "Born Again" in those exact words,
therefore Paul did not teach being born again. Jerry claimed
that Paul in Titus 3: 4-7 in using "rebirth" showed that he
agreed with John 3: 1-6 on being born again. The Problem though
is that Paul in texts other than Titus 3: 4-7 shows his
agreement with John 3: 1-6 in terms of the gist meaning of being
born again, though Paul did not use that exact language. For
example, in Romans 12: 2 Paul writes about being "transformed by
the renewing of your mind," by which Paul is explaining to some
extent what being born again means. Paul in II Corinthians 5:
7 and in Galatians 6: 15 writes about becoming a new creature or
new creation, which also indicates that Paul understands John 3:
1-6 and is again explaining in part what it means to be born
again.
Ephesians 2: 11-16 says a great deal about the unity of all who
are born again and are of the elect of God, and implies more.
"Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the
flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the
Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
12.
from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the
covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the
world:
13.
made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14.
broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15.
commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of
twain one new man, so making peace;
16.
the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17.
and to them that were nigh."
In the past, Paul says, Gentiles in Uncircumcision and without
Christ were aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers
from the covenants. But Gentiles can be made nigh to the
commonwealth of Israel by the blood of Christ.
Nigh means close. Gentiles can be made close to Israel by the
blood of Christ. Romans 10: 12 and Galatians 3: 28 confirm and
support their being made close to Israel by Christ.
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for
the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him."
Romans 10: 12
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free,
there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ
Jesus." Galatians 3: 28
In Ephesians 2: 12 Paul writes about Gentiles before being
strangers from the covenants. This implies that in Christ and
by his blood Gentiles who were before strangers from the
covenants are brought into the New Covenant, which Hebrews 8:
8-12 quoting Jeremiah 31: 31-34 says is for the house of Israel
and the house of Judah.
By being made a part of the commonwealth of Israel Gentiles who
were before aliens from Israel, partake also of the New
Covenant, with the remnant of Israel,
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]bernardpyron again your are not rightly
dividing the Bible???
Yes the nation of Israel is Talmudic Judaism and does not
recognize Jesus Christ as their Messiah. This is the Partial
Blindness ("Blindness in Part") Paul is speaking of in Rom
11:25. Not until the Fullness of the Gentiles will the Blindness
be removed.
I agree with you about those that take dispensationalism a
little too far, especially hyper-dispensationlist. However, it
is not reason to disregard the divisions within the Bible put
there by GOD.
You said the elect are all one. YES, they are....Gentile and JEW
alike.They are ONE and these people will be removed out of
danger from GOD's anger, receive a translated body like that of
Jesus Christ : 1 John3:2.."Dear friends, we are already God’s
children, but he has not yet shown us what we will be like when
Christ appears. But we do know that we will be like him, for we
will see him as he really is."
When the Rapture (Harpazo) happens (The New Covenant, the
grafted branch), there will NOT be one individual left on earth
who believes in Jesus Christ (except maybe the
144,000....another post). Jews and Gentiles will all be of one
mind. During this Gap period of time and Daniel's 70th week, the
world as we know it today will be destroyed. Not one mountain
will remain, not one island will remain, not one city except
maybe Jerusalem will remain.etc.
Many will die from both sides and many (both Gentile and Jew)
will take Jesus as their savior having to die in HIS name as
martyrs. These people will become Tribulation Saints both Jew
and Gentile. The dispensation of Grace ended with the Harpazo
yet the Gospel of Jesus Christ continues until the 2nd half of
Daniel's 70th week. Then the "Everlasting Gospel" becomes the
'de facto' Gospel for the Millennium.
Again, at the 2nd half of Daniel's 70th week, the AoD happens
and the remaining Jews in Jerusalem who have come to believe in
Jesus as their messiah will flee Jerusalem for the safety
provided by GOD, south in the mountains. those who do not flee
will all die (2/3 of the THEN Jewish Population) Those who flee
become the Remnant of Israel and GOD will instill Himself and
His commands in their Hearts and minds. The New Covenant rides
again.
Those 'GENTILES of the world, who survive the GAP period (up to
32 years), Daniel's 70th week (7 years) and the Sheep/Goat
Judgement will also populate the earth during the millennium
along with the Remnant of Israel.
The Remnant of Jews will rule Israel with Jesus. (Israel will be
the same area it was when God Gave it to Abraham/Isaac and
Jacob) The Apostles will judge Israel
The Tribulation Saints will serve Jesus Christ in the Temple
that He rebuilds near Jeruslaem. (50 mile x 50 mile)
The Church or the Bride will Rule and Judge the Remaining
Nations of the world
Jesus will rule the earth with IRON Fist from the King David's
Throne in Jerusalem. Eze 20:33.."As surely as I live, says the
Sovereign LORD, I will rule over you with an iron fist in great
anger and with awesome power."
You said: "never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet."
Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to scriptures. God
does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. If fact, He allowed it
in the OT as well as in the NT...
What I see in your post is a way for those who have some
antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become God's
Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly, etc.
So Sad.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 3190--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: bernardpyron Date: January 14, 2019, 5:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
"You said: "never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet."
Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to scriptures. God
does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. If fact, He allowed it
in the OT as well as in the NT...
What I see in your post is a way for those who have some
antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become God's
Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly, etc.
So Sad."
I mentioned I Timothy 6: 20-21 in a recent post. Here Paul
warns about the use of the dialectic and says to avoid the
"oppositions of science falsely so called." This is a
translation of
"αντιθεσεις
της
ψευδωνυμου
γνωσεως," or "antitheseis
tes pseudonumou gnoseos." Anti-thesis is a word from the early
Greek dialectic before the time of Christ. Knowledge is a more
accurate translation of gnoseos, though "falsely so called" is
OK for pseudonumou.
After being on TOL for a while I noticed that some of the
dispensationalists over there were using the dialectic as Paul
describes it here.
Marx is claimed to have said that he stood Hegel on his head,
which is taken to mean that Marx made Hegel's dialectic
atheistic or without morals, replacing logic and facts with mere
argumentation and statements not necessarily true.
Showing those dispensationalists what Paul says in I Timothy 6:
20 only caused them to mock it.
You wrote here "You said: "never the twain, Israel and church,
shall meet." Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to
scriptures. God does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. " I
did not say that at all, but was quoting Lewis S. Chafer,
Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975, Vol.
4. pp. 315-323..
You said "What I see in your post is a way for those who have
some antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become
God's Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly,
etc."
Its not a good idea to say something like this without some
evidence . What you as a dispensationalist might think is
"anti-Semitism" can be love of the Truth.
I found that the best way to deal with the dialectic of the TOL
dispensationalists was not to get into quarrels with them,
because thats what they want - to continue an argument on and
on.
#Post#: 3194--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: guest8 Date: January 14, 2019, 7:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=bernardpyron link=topic=302.msg3190#msg3190
date=1547509154]
"You said: "never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet."
Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to scriptures. God
does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. If fact, He allowed it
in the OT as well as in the NT...
What I see in your post is a way for those who have some
antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become God's
Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly, etc.
So Sad."
I mentioned I Timothy 6: 20-21 in a recent post. Here Paul
warns about the use of the dialectic and says to avoid the
"oppositions of science falsely so called." This is a
translation of
"αντιθεσεις
της
ψευδωνυμου
γνωσεως," or "antitheseis
tes pseudonumou gnoseos." Anti-thesis is a word from the early
Greek dialectic before the time of Christ. Knowledge is a more
accurate translation of gnoseos, though "falsely so called" is
OK for pseudonumou.
After being on TOL for a while I noticed that some of the
dispensationalists over there were using the dialectic as Paul
describes it here.
Marx is claimed to have said that he stood Hegel on his head,
which is taken to mean that Marx made Hegel's dialectic
atheistic or without morals, replacing logic and facts with mere
argumentation and statements not necessarily true.
Showing those dispensationalists what Paul says in I Timothy 6:
20 only caused them to mock it.
You wrote here "You said: "never the twain, Israel and church,
shall meet." Well, God does not say that..... Let's stick to
scriptures. God does not say Israel cannot meet Gentiles. " I
did not say that at all, but was quoting Lewis S. Chafer,
Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975, Vol.
4. pp. 315-323..
You said "What I see in your post is a way for those who have
some antiSemitism in their theology to try and make it become
God's Word by adding, deleting, changing, translating wrongly,
etc."
Its not a good idea to say something like this without some
evidence . What you as a dispensationalist might think is
"anti-Semitism" can be love of the Truth.
I found that the best way to deal with the dialectic of the TOL
dispensationalists was not to get into quarrels with them,
because thats what they want - to continue an argument on and
on.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]You can try and use the old stand bye: false
translation of the Greek/Hebrew Text. That dog don't hunt here
with this member. The KJV has been around for 400+ years and all
the errors, mostly spelling and others that do not change the
message have been found and catalogued
Other versions of the Bible can be debunked very easily. Thus
your arguments are not Kosher.
I explained the truth to you and showed you that The Church
(body of Christ ) is ONE, both Gentile and Jew. However there is
another path for another group of people, God's Chosen Remnant
of Israel.
You can deny it all you want to but it is there.,
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 16745--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: patrick jane Date: August 28, 2020, 3:15 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Dispensationalism rules
#Post#: 19766--------------------------------------------------
Re: Dispensationalism Disagrees With Several New Testament Scrip
tures
By: patrick jane Date: October 29, 2020, 1:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=302.msg16745#msg16745
date=1598645738]
Dispensationalism rules
[/quote] ;D
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