DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
<
form action=&amp
;amp;amp;quot;https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; method=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;p
ost&
quot; target=&am
p;amp;amp;quot;_top&
amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;input type=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hidden&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; name=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;cmd&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; value=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot
;_s-xclick&a
mp;amp;quot;&amp
;amp;amp;gt; &am
p;amp;amp;lt;input type=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hidden&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; name=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;hosted_button_id&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; val
ue=&
quot;DKL7ADEKRVUBL&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;input type=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;image&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; src=&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;https://www.payp
alobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; border=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;0&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; nam
e=&q
uot;submit&a
mp;amp;quot; alt=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;quot;PayPal - The safer, easier way to pay online!
&quo
t;&g
t; &
lt;img alt=&
amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;quot; border=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;0&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; src=&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;https://www.paypalobjects.com
/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; width=&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;1&a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot; height=&amp
;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;1&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;quot;&am
p;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt; &a
mp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;lt;/form&
amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;amp;gt;
HTML https://3169.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: From The Desk of Bernard Pyron
*****************************************************
#Post#: 3065--------------------------------------------------
Tyndale's Translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 and Ekklesia
By: Bernard Pyron Date: January 4, 2019, 9:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Tyndale's Translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 and of Ekklesia
Bernard Pyron
William Tyndale has credibility as a lone translator of the
Textus Receptus Greek of Erasmus. Tyndale also has credibility
as a Remnant leader of the Reformation who wrote in the English
of the 16th century, which we can mostly understand.
I posted a study here on Tyndale's translation of Oikonomia, and
pointed out that the Catholic English New Testament of Wycliffe
of about 1382, was the Old English spelling "dispensacioun."
But Tyndale translated Oikonomia as office, ministration and
ordinance in I Corinthians 9: 17, Ephesians 1: 10. Ephesians 3:
2 and in Colossians 1: 25.
Then Theodore Beza, a Calvinist leader, returned to the
translation of Oikonomia as dispensation. The Geneva Bible
Committee followed Beza and used dispensation for Oikonomia. We
find that while Wycliffe in his Catholic English New Testament
used the Old English spelling of Chirche, Tyndale broke with
Catholic tradition and used Congregation for ekklesia
consistently.
Here is the King James Version for II Thessalonians 2: 3-8:
"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day
shall not come, unless there
come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the
son of perdition;
Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or
that is worshipped;
so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing
himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that when I was yet
with you, I told
you these things?
And now you know what withholds, that he might be revealed
in his time. For the mystery of iniquity does already work: only
he who now lets
will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that
wicked be revealed, whom the Lord
shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy
with the brightness of his coming..."
II Thessalonians 2: 7 is translated differently in the King
James Version than in Tyndale's 1534 New Testament. Tyndale says
Here is William Tyndale's 1534 translation of II Thessalonians
2: 3-8:
"Let no man deceive you by any means, for the Lord comes not,
unless there come
a departing first, and that sinful man be revealed,
the son of perdition which is an
adversary, and is exalted above all that is called
God, or that is worshipped: so that
he shall sit as God in the temple of God, and show
himself as God. Remember ye
not, that when I was yet with you, I told you these
things?
And now you know what withholds, that he might be revealed at
his time.
For the mystery of that iniquity
does he already work, which only locks until it be
taken out of the way. And then shall that wicked be revealed,
whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and
shall destroy with the appearance of
his coming..."
The Tyndale says New Testament or II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 says
"For the mystery of that iniquity
does he already work, which only locks until it be
taken out of the way."
But the King James says "For the mystery of iniquity does
already work: only he who now lets
will let, until he be taken out of the way."
Tyndale's translation does not include a restrainer in II
Thessalonians 2: 3-8 as does the King James Version.
Letteth" is from The Greek kateko, Strong's Exhaustive
Concordance Number 2722, "to hold down, withhold..." Letteth can
mean to restrain. But Tyndale translates it as "locks," meaning
to lock in place that takeover of the temple of God in the
believer by the sinful man.
In his writings Tyndale explains that the anti-Christ is not a
single individual but is a present danger to Christians, since
it is not something that is always in the future. The
dispensationalist one man anti-Christ is to come in the future.
Lets see what the Geneva Bible says for II Thessalonians 2: 7,
"For the mysterie of iniquitie doeth already worke: onely he
which nowe withholdeth, shall let till he be taken out of the
way."
The Geneva Bible translation group changed Tyndale's translation
of II Thessalonians 2: 7 and the King James Committee followed
the Geneva Bible.
There is also a significant difference between the King James
translation for ekklesia and that of the Tyndale New Testament.
John Wyclife, of England, translated the Latin word ecclesiam
into chirche - in old English spelling. Wycliffe did not have
the Textus Receptus Greek test that Tyndale used, but Wycliffe
used the
But then William Tyndale in his 1526 New Testament translated
ekklesia as congregation, except for Acts 14: 13 and Acts 19: 37
where he used churche, meaning a pagan place of worship. Tyndale
broke with Catholic tradition and used congregation for ekklesia
something which might have contributed to his being strangled at
the stake by the Catholics.
And after the death of John Calvin, Theodore Beza in 1556
returned to the use of church to translate ekklesia - and the
Geneva Bible followed him, using church instead of congregation.
Beza returned to the Catholic Capital C Church translation of
ekklesia as chirche.
I Peter 5: 2-3 says "Feed the flock of God which is among you,
taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly;
not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3. Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being
ensamples to the flock."
In the Catholic Church the clergy class ruled over the
congregations like "lords over God's heritage," controlling in
detail the doctrines followed by the people under them. This is
what is meant by the Capital C Church.
Any doctrine is established by the original meaning of the
Hebrew or Greek words used to express that doctrine. A
translation into English should not change that doctrine.
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance defines ekklesia, number 1577,
as "a calling out, i.e. (to) a popular meeting, especially a
religious congregation..."
See:
HTML http://www.christianassemblies.co/in...icle&article=1
"The word "church" was used by Theodore Beza in 1556, a
Protestant, who followed John Calvin at Geneva, Switzerland. As
a Presbyterian, Beza believed in the idea of a catholic church
and its hierarchical form of government and therefore chose to
support this false concept by using the word "church" instead of
"assembly." The reason is obvious in that the use of the word
"congregation" or "assembly" would not support his church's
hierarchical form of church government. William Whittingham's
Testament of 1557 followed Beza's usage of "church" and was
actually the first edition of the Geneva Bible and was a
revision of the Tyndale New Testament."
The Geneva and King James translations consistently use church
for ekklesia. Congregation has a meaning much closer to the
meaning of ekklesia, as a meeting, assembly or congregation,
than does church which the Oxford English Dictionary reveals.
See:
HTML http://civ.icelord.net/read.php?f=3&i=63650&t=63650&v=f
"CHURCH: FORMS: (a) cirice, cyrice, chiriche, churiche,
chereche, CIRCE, cyrce, chyrce, cirke, etc., etc."
"...there is now a general
agreement among scholars in referring it to the Greek word,
properly kurion adj. 'of the Lord, dominicum, dominical' (f.
Kurios lord), which
occurs, from the 3rd century at least, used substantively (sc.
doma, or the like) = 'house of the Lord.." But the early use of
Kurios was perhaps to a pagan house of worship."
The Oxford English Dictionary mentions the Greek goddess circe,
and also says in caps in its list of spellings of church, the
word CIRCE. The Catholic Encyclopedia lists circe as one
spelling of church, but does not mention a possible origin of
circe from the Greek goddess circe.
"The.... circus, and a Gothic word kйlikn 'tower, upper
chamber' (app. originally
Gaulish) have both been proposed (the latter suggested by the
Alemannic chilihha), but are set aside as untenable; "
Early meanings for cirice, chiriche, churiche, chereche, or
CIRCE may have been rejected by the churches because of the
pagan implications of these meanings.
The churches much prefer the definition of church as Body of
Christ than any of the pagan implications attached to the
earlier use of this word in various spellings. But ekklesia is a
common noun and any word equating to Body of Christ, Saints, the
Elect or Redeemed Israel would be a Proper Noun and capitalized.
So if Church becomes defined as a proper noun, then it should be
in caps.
While the Geneva Bible and the King James consistently use
dispensation for oikonomía, Tyndale does not use dispensation at
all in any of the texts where the Greek oikonomía appears. Yet
the earlier Wycliffe English Catholic New Testament of 1382,
translated into Middle English from the Latin Vulgate,
consistently used dispensacioun.
The question is, to what extent was the use of chirche or church
for ekklesia, dispensation for Oikonomía and kateko in II
Thessalonians 2: 7 as restrainer rather than as locks in place
was Catholic doctrine?
#Post#: 3072--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tyndale's Translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 and Ekklesi
a
By: bernardpyron Date: January 5, 2019, 11:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
There are typing mistakes in the above.
William Tyndale has credibility as the lone translator of the
Textus Receptus Greek of Erasmus.
The Geneva Bible and the King James Version made some use of as
much as 80 percent of the Tyndale New Testament's verse
wordings, and sometimes the exact Tyndale verse wordings are
used in the Geneva Bible and in the King James.
See:
HTML http://www.tyndale.org/tsj03/mansbridge.html
"It will be seen that in these nine chapters more than 83% of
the words in the Geneva Version were taken direct from Tyndale,
and more than 81% of the words in the King James Version. I
believe this sample is statistically valid for the whole New
Testament."
Tyndale's credibility in translating the Textus Receptus into
English is shown in the use of his English word choices and
sentence structures by the committees that created the Geneva
Bible and the King James Version. Remember that Tyndale was one
man inspired by God, and he was then part of a very, very small
remnant.
Look at:
HTML http://www1.cbn.com/churchan…/the-kjv-a-lasting-monument-to-
Tyndale wanted the boy who “driveth the plough” – to know
Scripture as well as the priest who presided over a church.
But the Roman Catholic Church made it a crime to translate the
Bible into the common languages. The Bible of the Catholic
Church - The Vulgate - was in Latin, which the common people did
not understand - the priest class was trained to read Latin.
And William Tyndale, the remnant Reformation leader who wrote in
16th century English, defied the Roman Catholic Church - the
Capital C Church - and apparently believed in the doctrine of
the priesthood of the believer (I Peter 2: 1-5). He thought that
God made all those who have faith and have been born again by
the Holy spirit were led by God to become ministers of the
Gospel of Christ.
See also:
HTML http://www.tyndale.org/tsj03/mansbridge.html
"The Percentage of Words in the Geneva and King James Versions
taken from Tyndale's translation"
In this study nine chapters of the Bible were looked at:
Genesis 13, 1 Samuel 8, Deuteronomy 8, Matthew 3, Acts 25,
Romans 13, 1 Corinthians 5, James 4, and Revelation 20.
"It will be seen that in these nine chapters more than 83% of
the words in the Geneva Version were taken direct from Tyndale,
and more than 81% of the words in the King James Version. I
believe this sample is statistically valid for the whole New
Testament and those books of the Old Testament that Tyndale
translated, within a margin of possible error of between 2 and 3
per cent."
He is talking about the English words used by Tyndale in his
1524 Translation of the Bible.
This sites shows examples of the exact verse wordings of Matthew
5, 1-16 in the Tyndale, Geneva, and King James Versions.
This shows that the Geneva and King James Bibles use the exact
same wordings for Matthew 5: 1-16 as used by Tyndale.
Tyndale also has credibility as a Remnant leader of the
Reformation who wrote in the English of the 16th century, which
we can mostly understand.
#Post#: 16743--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tyndale's Translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 and Ekklesi
a
By: patrick jane Date: August 28, 2020, 3:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Nope
#Post#: 19764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Tyndale's Translation of II Thessalonians 2: 3-8 and Ekklesi
a
By: patrick jane Date: October 29, 2020, 1:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=296.msg16743#msg16743
date=1598645691]
Nope
[/quote] ;D
*****************************************************