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DIR Return to: Christian Theology
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#Post#: 2864--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 19, 2018, 10:33 am
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[font=arial]● Matt 1:24-25 . . When Joseph woke up, he did
what the angel of the Lord commanded. He brought Mary home to be
his wife, but she remained a virgin until her son was born.
The couple didn't marry right away. According to Luke 2:1-7 they
journeyed to Bethlehem as an engaged couple rather than a
married couple.
At first glance it appears that Mary and Joseph began shacking
up; but I hardly think so. The Bible says Joseph was a righteous
man. Well; righteous men don't shack up. The "home" that Joseph
brought Mary to was likely his family's home rather than a
bachelor pad.
Preachers sometimes compose whole sermons to explain why Joseph
didn't sleep with Mary right away, but the fact of the matter
is: she and Joseph weren't wed till sometime after Jesus was
born. Well; righteous men are men of character with high moral
standards; viz: they don't sleep with women they aren't married
to.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2873--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 20, 2018, 8:08 am
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[font=arial]● Luke 1:31-32 . . Listen carefully: you will
conceive in your womb and bear a son . . and the Lord God will
give him the throne of David his father.
In order for David to be Jesus' father, he had to be Mary's
father too because her pregnancy wasn't man-made.
Stay with me because I'm going to trace Jesus' biological
genealogy all the way back to Adam.
● Acts 13:22-23 . . "I have found David the son of Jesse,
a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfill all my will." Of
this man's seed hath God, according to His promise, raised unto
Israel a savior, Jesus.
● Rom 1:1-3 . . Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of
the seed of David according to the flesh
The koiné Greek word for "seed" in those two passages is sperma
(sper' mah) which is a bit ambiguous because it can refer to
spiritual progeny as well as to biological progeny; for example:
● Gal 3:29 . . If you belong to Christ, then you are
Abraham's seed.
That seed is obviously spiritual progeny. But the seed in Acts
13:22-23 and Rom 1:1-3 is biological progeny because David's
seed is "according to the flesh" i.e. his physical human body.
Now, unless somebody can prove clearly, conclusively, iron clad,
and without spin and sophistry that David's body was in no way
biologically related to Adam's body, then we have to conclude
that baby Jesus' body was also biologically related to Adam's
body.
Seen from another angle:
Eve's body was made from Adam's body. (Gen 2:21-23)
Consequently, when children are conceived by women that are
biologically related to Eve, then their children are
biologically related to Adam: whether naturally-conceived or
virgin-conceived makes no difference, i.e. every child that
biologically descends from Eve also biologically descends from
Adam.
● Gen 3:15 . . I will put enmity between you and the
woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your
head, and you will strike his heel.
It's pretty much agreed by most Christians that Eve's predicted
offspring was realized in Christ; which means that baby Jesus
was not only Eve's biological offspring but Adam's too because
her body was made with material taken from Adam's body.
So then; in order to cut Jesus out of Adam's biological
posterity it would be necessary to cut Mary out of Eve's
biological posterity; and I've yet to encounter anyone either
online or in church able to do that.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2891--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 21, 2018, 7:51 am
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.
[font=arial]Q: Was it really necessary for Joseph to adopt
Mary's baby?
A: It was essential because God selected Jesus to inherit
David's throne. (Luke 1:32)
Mary was directly related to David (Rom 1:1-3) but the monarchy
passes down through David's son Solomon. (1Kgs 1:16-39)
Jesus' mom wasn't directly related to Solomon, she was directly
related to Solomon's brother Nathan (Luke 3:31, Luke 3:23) so
Mary's little boy couldn't inherit the monarchy through her. And
besides, Israel's monarchy always passed down through David's
males; never his females.
Joseph, on the other hand, was directly related to Solomon (Matt
1:6, Matt 1:16) so that any progeny of Joseph's, whether
biological or adopted, would be Solomon's progeny.
Q: Is there an example in the Bible to support this adoption
theory of yours?
A: At Gen 48:5-7, Jacob set a patriarchal precedent by adopting
his two grandsons Manasseh and Ephraim; and by doing so
installed them in positions equal in rank, honor, power, and
privilege to his twelve original sons; thus legally increasing
Jacob's total number of tribal heads from twelve to fourteen.
Jacob's motive for adopting Joseph's two sons wasn't for
himself; it was in sympathy for his beloved wife Rachel being
cut off during her child-bearing years, which subsequently
prevented her from having any more children of her own. Ephraim
and Manasseh bring Rachel's legal total up to six: two of her
own, two by the maid Bilhah, and two by Asenath.
Q: If Jesus inherited the Davidic monarchy via adoption, then
wouldn't he have inherited Jeconiah's curse right along with it?
(Jer 22:29-30)
A: Yes; because the monarchy and the curse were a package deal.
However; the wording "to rule again in Judah" indicates that the
curse on Jeconiah's royal progeny was limited to the era of the
divided kingdom. That condition came to an end when
Nebuchadnezzar crushed the whole country and led first Samaria,
and then later Judah, off to Babylonian slavery.
When Messiah reigns, the country of Israel will be unified. His
jurisdiction won't be limited to Judah within a divided kingdom,
but will dominate all the land of Israel. So the curse doesn't
apply to him.
● Ezek 37:21-22 . .You shall declare to them: Thus said
the Lord God: I am going to take the Israelite people from among
the nations they have gone to, and gather them from every
quarter, and bring them to their own land. I will make them a
single nation in the land, on the hills of Israel, and one king
shall be king of them all. Never again shall they be two
nations, and never again shall they be divided into two
kingdoms.
NOTE: The New Testament's ancient Greek manuscripts typically
contain no punctuation. So whatever punctuation we see in
English was arbitrarily inserted in the text solely at the
discretion of translators. In reality, the punctuation we see in
English texts is an educated guess; consequently we cannot
always be sure that their editing is reliable and/or unbiased.
For example; English punctuation in some versions of Luke
3:23-24 make it appear that the genealogy in Luke is Joseph's
which, if so, would make him directly related to Solomon's
brother Nathan. But if we take the liberty to remove all the
arbitrary punctuation from that passage, we can then easily show
that the genealogy is actually Mary's rather than Joseph's; viz:
Heli, (a.k.a. Eli) is Mary's dad.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2910--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 22, 2018, 10:58 am
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.
[font=arial]● Matt 2:1 . . Now when Jesus was born in
Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there
came wise men from the east to Jerusalem.
The koiné Greek word for these particular wise men is magos
(mag'-os) which roughly indicates scientists; but can also
indicate magicians; viz: sorcerers (Acts 13:6-8). Judging by
their interest in the cosmos; I'd say these particular magos
were astrologers.
NOTE: Back then, there was not yet a distinct division between
astrologers and astronomers like there is now, so we probably
shouldn't assume those guys were mystics.
● Matt 2:2 . . Saying: where is he that is born King of
the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to
worship him.
Now before we assume that these guys were all ethnic Persians we
need to be aware that the Jews and their converts were spread
out all over the world at this time; for example on the day of
Pentecost:
"Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every
nation under heaven. A crowd came together in bewilderment,
because each one heard [the disciples] speaking in his own
language. Utterly amazed, they asked: Are not all these men who
are speaking Galileans? Then how is it that each of us hears
them in his own native language? Parthians, Medes and Elamites;
residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia,
Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene;
visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans
and Arabs-- we hear them declaring the wonders of God in our own
tongues!" (Acts 2:5-11)
I think it's pretty safe to assume that ethnic Persians would
not be interested in the Jews' religion so I posit that the wise
guys were either Jewish men or converts; and thus knowledgeable
of the prophecies predicting a very important successor to
David's throne.
So; how did those travelers know to follow the star? Well; first
off we have to realize that their star wasn't a celestial object
because it was low enough in the sky to direct people to the
exact house were baby Jesus was lodged (Matt 2:9). In other
words: their star was an apparition.
But how did they know their star was related to the newborn
king? Well; according to Matt 2:12, they were in contact with
God. In other words: the men weren't acting on their own
initiative: they were on a mission; directed and supervised by
divine oversight.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2925--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 23, 2018, 7:56 am
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.
[font=arial]● Matt 2:3-4 . . And when Herod the king heard
it, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And gathering
together all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he
began to inquire of them where the Christ was to be born.
The Greek word for "Christ" basically refers to anointing; which
is how Jewish kings were installed back in the Old Testament;
for example David (1Sam 16:1-13). So then, calling someone "the
Christ" is all the same as calling them a king; regardless of
their ethnic identity. For example: the Old Testament equivalent
of Christ is mashiyach (maw-shee'-akh) which is applied to a
Persian king named Cyrus. (Isa 45:1)
Right about here I got a bit curious. Why would Herod think that
the king the wise men sought was predicted in the Bible? It
seems to me that in order for Herod to be thinking that way,
he'd have to be aware of Daniel's famous seventy-week prophecy.
(Dan 9:24-27)
Well, after a bit of checking, I discovered that Herod favored
the Jews' religion and was somewhat learned in it. In point of
fact, Herod at this time was upgrading the Temple.
The chief priests and scribes, being Old Testament experts, were
for sure aware of Daniel's prophecy and I'll just bet that they
and their forbearers had been keeping track of Daniel's timeline
all along and thus probably not all that surprised when rumors
of a Christ started cropping up in their day.
Well; anyway, Herod asked the wrong question. According to Matt
2:2, baby Jesus was already born; in fact, born even before the
wise men left their country. So then, knowing where Israel's new
king was to be born was a long shot that he'd still be there.
The question Herod should have asked is: Where might the boy be
now?
NOTE: Jesus' hometown Nazareth was predicted by the prophets
(Matt 2:23) but not recorded by the prophets; which alerts us to
the fact that the prophets didn't put everything down in
writing. That was fortunate because sure enough Herod's death
squads would've swept that area too had he known.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2934--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 24, 2018, 8:58 am
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[font=arial]This time of year, planetariums here and there put
on shows that theorize the wise men's star. They typically
neglect to take into account that stars, in their normal daily
motions, never move to the north or to the south; they always
move from the east to the west. Well, Bethlehem is south of
Jerusalem and Nazareth is north.
Plus, they seem to always forget that that the wise men's star
stood right over the place where little Jesus was lodged. Well;
stars in their motions never take a time-out to hover; and even
if one were to do so, they are so high in the sky that it's nigh
unto impossible without special instruments to tell the exact
spot where any one star is directly over something.
After an audience with Herod, the wise men departed; still
guided by their star.
● Matt 2:9 . . After they had heard the king, they went on
their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of
them.
And then it stood right over the very place where Jesus was
lodged.
● Matt 2:9 . . It stopped over the place where the child
was.
The place was a house rather than a stable.
● Matt 2:11a . . On coming to the house
It's difficult to calculate the boy's age when the wise men
arrived; however one thing we know for sure it was their
understanding that the king they sought was already born even
before they left home to seek him.
● Matt 2:2 . . Where is the one who has been born king of
the Jews? We saw his star in the east.
There's no telling how long after Jesus' birth that the men
departed their country to search for him. Plus, there were no
motorized conveyances back then; and people normally didn't
travel at night because their artificial lighting was pretty
much limited to torches, candles, and oil-fired lanterns.
● Matt 2:11b . . They saw the child with his mother
The language describing the boy changed. When he was lodged in
the stable, the Greek word for his age is brephos (bref'-os); an
infant. In the house, the word for his age is paidion
(pahee-dee'-on); which refers to any underage kid from infancy
to adolescence but usually always refers to young children
rather than infants.
I won't hazard a guess as to Jesus' age by the time the men
arrived to see him, but I'm thinking he was at the very least no
longer in a bassinet.
_[/font]
#Post#: 36024--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: patrick jane Date: December 5, 2021, 12:26 am
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Who Were the Magi
1 hour 15 minutes
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irWL-jHE-Tw&list=WL&index=18
The Gospel of Matthew tells us that "magi" from the East brought
gifts to the infant Jesus following a mysterious star. Western
Christianity commemorates this event with the feast of Epiphany,
on January 6. What do we know about these wise men? Where did
they come? Were they kings or Zoroastrian priests? Is there any
evidence of a new star? We'll look at all these and other
questions to reveal the meaning of this story from a
mythological and theological view point.
#Post#: 36216--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: patrick jane Date: December 17, 2021, 7:48 pm
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Prophecies in the Christmas Story
In recounting his version of the story of Jesus’ birth, the
author of the gospel of Matthew tells readers “All this took
place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet.”
But how well do the Christmas stories in Matthew and Luke align
with prophecies about the coming Messiah in the Hebrew Bible (or
Old Testament)?
In this live streamed lecture John Hamer of Toronto Centre Place
will outline the prophecies cited by the evangelists and the
insight they give into the creative and non-literalistic way the
earliest Christians understood scripture. A Q&A will follow the
lecture.
1 hour
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87YEtQRGI40
#Post#: 36239--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: patrick jane Date: December 19, 2021, 11:00 pm
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HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lObK27ZVz1I&list=WL&index=223
#Post#: 36512--------------------------------------------------
Re: Christ's Nativity
By: patrick jane Date: January 6, 2022, 10:29 am
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HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8R5Qk9W6Fs
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