DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
<form
action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr"
method="post"
target="_top">
<input
type="hidden"
name="cmd"
value="_s-xclick">
<input
type="hidden"
name="hosted_button_id"
value="DKL7ADEKRVUBL">
<input
type="image"
src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif"
border="0"
name="submit"
alt="PayPal
- The safer, easier way to pay
online!">
<img
alt=""
border="0"
src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif"
width="1"
height="1">
</form>
HTML https://3169.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Christian Threads
*****************************************************
#Post#: 254--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: guest8
Date: August 10, 2018, 11:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: joechan82 link ---
>
> I was introduced to Jesus by a fellow Marine. He took about a
half an hour and showed me that I was a sinner, why I was a
sinner, and what happens to sinners. I knew that all of it was
true. Then he showed me that Jesus paid for our sins. Three
weeks later, after going to church a few times, listening to my
friend witness to me, and laying in bed at night scared to
death, I asked the Lord to save me. And He did. Just like that!
> I only went to the Episcopal church on Easter with my mom and
sister prior to that, so I had no theology. The guy who lead me
to Christ was a Baptist so that is where I went. I was baptized
the next Sunday and that made it official. :) That was over 40
years ago. After a lot of church history and doctrine study I am
still a Baptist, but now I know why. Funny old thing.
> BTW C. H. Spurgeon is my favorite preacher to read. He was a
Calvinist, but he is not a typical Calvinist. That man knew his
God.
> I have a pretty good idea what a MAD Dispensationalist is, but
I cannot understand what Open Theists are. I tried to read their
statement on TF. I tried. Somebody help this old man.
>
--- End Quote ---
are you familiar with Arminianism? It is the opposite of
Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free
will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in
predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a
silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not
forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will
accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that
happens including saving my but many times in those early years.
The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is pretty
clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say about
their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect their
salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this point.
My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons past
saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set my
heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at that
time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward to
when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone, etc.
He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face to
heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my savior.
He also knows those that will not accept him, that have rejected
Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during their
lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist forums,
etc. that simply do not believe in anything except mankind.
Hope this helps.
Blade
#Post#: 269--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: guest5
Date: August 11, 2018, 11:40 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
>
> are you familiar with Arminianism? It is the opposite of
Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free
will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in
predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a
silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not
forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will
accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that
happens including saving my but many times in those early years.
>
> The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is
pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say
about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect
their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this
point.
>
> My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons
past saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set
my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at
that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward
to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone,
etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face
to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my
savior.
>
> He also knows those that will not accept him, that have
rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during
their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist
forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except
mankind.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Blade
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the main point of open theism is to say that not all
outcomes are always predetermined, and that we are followers of
Jesus because we want to be, not because He knows that we would.
I guess i’m Not a traditional representation of an open theist
either, because I can see some of the arguments for Calvinism in
a way that I understand and agree with as well.
I think I don’t fully fall into either of the two categories in
a traditional sense. To a traditional open theist, Calvinists
seem like they are saying that God is just up there playing army
men all day. To a traditional Calvinist, an open theist sounds
like they are saying that God has no control over anything.
Like many arguments in theology that I’ve run across, most of
the points of contention are actually the extremist view on
either side and/or a misunderstanding of terminology. If you pay
close enough attention, both sides agree with each other more
than you would think they do, (except the extremists)
#Post#: 276--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: joechan82
Date: August 11, 2018, 12:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Yes Blade,
I have been called an Arminian more than once. I found an old
confession of faith once that was Arminian. I think it was
actually a document put out by the Dutch government a few
centuries ago. I read it and discovered that I do indeed believe
a lot of it. My departure from all that is that I am convinced
of the eternal security of the believer. In a nutshell, since
God saved us, then we cannot un-save us. We talk a lot about
rightly dividing, but some dividing is just dividing. I'm with
Jon on this. If the Bible says we have to call upon Him, then do
that. If the Bible describes the sovereignty and foreknowledge
of God then I believe that too. It's not God's fault I can't
figure it all out. :) I can post scripture to support everything
I believe. I want to know how to defend my positions, or change
them if I am wrong. All the best to y'all.
#Post#: 296--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: guest8
Date: August 11, 2018, 11:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jon Wood link ---
>
> [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=22.msg254#msg254
date=1533960854]
> are you familiar with Arminianism? It is the opposite of
Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free
will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in
predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a
silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not
forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will
accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that
happens including saving my but many times in those early years.
>
> The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is
pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say
about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect
their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this
point.
>
> My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons
past saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set
my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at
that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward
to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone,
etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face
to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my
savior.
>
> He also knows those that will not accept him, that have
rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during
their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist
forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except
mankind.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Blade
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the main point of open theism is to say that not all
outcomes are always predetermined, and that we are followers of
Jesus because we want to be, not because He knows that we would.
I guess i’m Not a traditional representation of an open theist
either, because I can see some of the arguments for Calvinism in
a way that I understand and agree with as well.
I think I don’t fully fall into either of the two categories in
a traditional sense. To a traditional open theist, Calvinists
seem like they are saying that God is just up there playing army
men all day. To a traditional Calvinist, an open theist sounds
like they are saying that God has no control over anything.
Like many arguments in theology that I’ve run across, most of
the points of contention are actually the extremist view on
either side and/or a misunderstanding of terminology. If you pay
close enough attention, both sides agree with each other more
than you would think they do, (except the extremists)
[/quote]
There is a difference in Predestined and Foreknown. Of course,
God is in complete control. He predestined people because He
knew in advance what they would do. Jon, he knew when and where
you were going to give your heart to him. All He did was make
the conditions right so that when you exercised your free-will
to accept him as your savior, it would happen. You cannot force
someone to love you and He is smart enough to know that.
There are those that believe they have the free-will to turn
away from GOD after they have been saved. I disagree with this
point in that Jesus tells us a number of times that He will lose
one who His father has given him. They therefore were not saved
in the beginning.
So, the bottom line is, if you are one who knows without a doubt
that they are in the Body of Christ, you were one of those that
were predestined before the beginning of Heavens and the earth.
Gen 1:1.
Blade
#Post#: 303--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: guest5
Date: August 12, 2018, 10:05 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
> they[/b] have the free-will to turn away from GOD after they
have been saved. I disagree with this point in that Jesus tells
us a number of times that He will lose one who His father has
given him. They therefore were not saved in the beginning.
>
> So, the bottom line is, if you are one who knows without a
doubt that they are in the Body of Christ, you were one of those
that were predestined before the beginning of Heavens and the
earth. Gen 1:1.
>
> Blade
>
--- End Quote ---
I totally understand what you are saying here Blade. I guess, by
the time I’ve entered discussions between Calvinists and Open
Theists, the topic has already devolved into a bickering match
between the extreme representatives of those viewpoints. I have
a hard time seeing why anybody who is truly a follower of Christ
would want to leave the fold in the first place so I see your
points. I’ve come and left before and I can see how maybe I
could not have been as sincere as I thought I had been at the
time. I’m glad to have had this talk with you and to see that
your viewpoint actually works hand in hand with my own. We don’t
always get to have productive talks like this when we get so
caught up in trying to prove the other guy wrong.
#Post#: 307--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: Sasha
Date: August 12, 2018, 11:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Jon Wood link ---
>
> [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=22.msg254#msg254
date=1533960854]
> are you familiar with Arminianism? It is the opposite of
Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free
will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in
predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a
silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not
forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will
accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that
happens including saving my but many times in those early years.
>
> The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is
pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say
about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect
their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this
point.
>
> My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons
past saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set
my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at
that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward
to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone,
etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face
to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my
savior.
>
> He also knows those that will not accept him, that have
rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during
their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist
forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except
mankind.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Blade
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the main point of open theism is to say that not all
outcomes are always predetermined, and that we are followers of
Jesus because we want to be, not because He knows that we would.
I guess i’m Not a traditional representation of an open theist
either, because I can see some of the arguments for Calvinism in
a way that I understand and agree with as well.
I think I don’t fully fall into either of the two categories in
a traditional sense. To a traditional open theist, Calvinists
seem like they are saying that God is just up there playing army
men all day. To a traditional Calvinist, an open theist sounds
like they are saying that God has no control over anything.
Like many arguments in theology that I’ve run across, most of
the points of contention are actually the extremist view on
either side and/or a misunderstanding of terminology. If you pay
close enough attention, both sides agree with each other more
than you would think they do, (except the extremists)
[/quote]
Open Theism also draws forth a term that undermines human lens.
Open. If taken to the full literal, the “Open” Theist is prone
to not posture, but learn, grow and perpetually develop, without
“Closing” theology or having a cup so full, that it can no
longer be filled.
Ironically, this means “Open” Theist commentary would be mere
ponderings along a path of development that would change with
“time”.
Constantly Developing is a better way to word this. I believe
someone once said that and I genuinely appreciated their saying
it.
#Post#: 320--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: guest8
Date: August 12, 2018, 7:21 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Sasha link ---
>
> [quote author=Jon Wood link=topic=22.msg269#msg269
date=1534005654]
> [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=22.msg254#msg254
date=1533960854]
> are you familiar with Arminianism? It is the opposite of
Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free
will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in
predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a
silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not
forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will
accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that
happens including saving my but many times in those early years.
>
> The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is
pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say
about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect
their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this
point.
>
> My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons
past saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set
my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at
that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward
to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone,
etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face
to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my
savior.
>
> He also knows those that will not accept him, that have
rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during
their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist
forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except
mankind.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Blade
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the main point of open theism is to say that not all
outcomes are always predetermined, and that we are followers of
Jesus because we want to be, not because He knows that we would.
I guess i’m Not a traditional representation of an open theist
either, because I can see some of the arguments for Calvinism in
a way that I understand and agree with as well.
I think I don’t fully fall into either of the two categories in
a traditional sense. To a traditional open theist, Calvinists
seem like they are saying that God is just up there playing army
men all day. To a traditional Calvinist, an open theist sounds
like they are saying that God has no control over anything.
Like many arguments in theology that I’ve run across, most of
the points of contention are actually the extremist view on
either side and/or a misunderstanding of terminology. If you pay
close enough attention, both sides agree with each other more
than you would think they do, (except the extremists)
[/quote]
Open Theism also draws forth a term that undermines human lens.
Open. If taken to the full literal, the “Open” Theist is prone
to not posture, but learn, grow and perpetually develop, without
“Closing” theology or having a cup so full, that it can no
longer be filled.
Ironically, this means “Open” Theist commentary would be mere
ponderings along a path of development that would change with
“time”.
Constantly Developing is a better way to word this. I believe
someone once said that and I genuinely appreciated their saying
it.
[/quote]
Then your saying Open Theology is a progressive living theology?
Blade
#Post#: 326--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: joechan82
Date: August 12, 2018, 10:12 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Scotty link ---
>
> I love to Study and Paul most certainly is the Apostle for us
gentiles :] I agree, I will look into this deeper.
>
--- End Quote ---
I am not a mid Acts guy, but I read a little about it on TF.
There is a certain logic to it. I'm checking it out too. For
now, it is back burner for me. Let me know what you like/dislike
about it. Then we can gang up on PJ and drive him mad. (Oops.
Poor choice of words.)
#Post#: 328--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: Sasha
Date: August 12, 2018, 10:17 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
>
> [quote author=Sasha link=topic=22.msg307#msg307
date=1534090311]
> [quote author=Jon Wood link=topic=22.msg269#msg269
date=1534005654]
> [quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=22.msg254#msg254
date=1533960854]
> are you familiar with Arminianism? It is the opposite of
Calvinism as they still believe that God allows MAN to have free
will to accept or reject HIM. They simply do not believe in
predestination The open Theology is a runoff from that. It is a
silly argument to me but then that is my opinion. God is not
forcing us to accept HIM, but rather has foreseen who will
accept him and He does everything He can do to make sure that
happens including saving my but many times in those early years.
>
> The free-will people do not believe Rom 8:29-30. This is
pretty clearly stated and I feel God will have something to say
about their not believing His scripture. Whether it will affect
their salvation, I do not know as there is some dispute on this
point.
>
> My post shows why I believe in Predestination. God in eons
past saw me, Blade and knew that I would seek Him. He then set
my heart right at the right time. I still had the free will at
that time to seek HIM or NOT. Bringing this information forward
to when we are actually living on earth, Jesus knows everyone,
etc. He also knew that on a certain day, I would raise my face
to heaven and ask Him to come into my heart and become my
savior.
>
> He also knows those that will not accept him, that have
rejected Him (and I am getting close to the line here) during
their lifetimes. You have seen some of these people on atheist
forums, etc. that simply do not believe in anything except
mankind.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Blade
>
--- End Quote ---
I think the main point of open theism is to say that not all
outcomes are always predetermined, and that we are followers of
Jesus because we want to be, not because He knows that we would.
I guess i’m Not a traditional representation of an open theist
either, because I can see some of the arguments for Calvinism in
a way that I understand and agree with as well.
I think I don’t fully fall into either of the two categories in
a traditional sense. To a traditional open theist, Calvinists
seem like they are saying that God is just up there playing army
men all day. To a traditional Calvinist, an open theist sounds
like they are saying that God has no control over anything.
Like many arguments in theology that I’ve run across, most of
the points of contention are actually the extremist view on
either side and/or a misunderstanding of terminology. If you pay
close enough attention, both sides agree with each other more
than you would think they do, (except the extremists)
[/quote]
Open Theism also draws forth a term that undermines human lens.
Open. If taken to the full literal, the “Open” Theist is prone
to not posture, but learn, grow and perpetually develop, without
“Closing” theology or having a cup so full, that it can no
longer be filled.
Ironically, this means “Open” Theist commentary would be mere
ponderings along a path of development that would change with
“time”.
Constantly Developing is a better way to word this. I believe
someone once said that and I genuinely appreciated their saying
it.
[/quote]
Then your saying Open Theology is a progressive living theology?
Blade
[/quote]
Blade,
For me and others along the path, I would absolutely say that.
It’s a rebellious cry to admit that theology in general is meant
to be perpetually searched out and never capped off. It’s the
desire to stay sensitive to the Holy Spirit in Scripture till
death.
You nailed it!
All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Brother.
#Post#: 336--------------------------------------------------
Re: How did you arrive at your current Theological stance?
DIR By: Sasha
Date: August 13, 2018, 5:35 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: joechan82 link ---
>
>
> -Quote from Sasha- “Blade,
>
> For me and others along the path, I would absolutely say that.
It’s a rebellious cry to admit that theology in general is
meant to be perpetually searched out and never capped off. It’s
the desire to stay sensitive to the Holy Spirit in Scripture
till death.
>
> You nailed it!
>
> All Love in Jesus Christ to you, Brother.”
>
> -Quote from Joechan82- “In that case, I'm not what anybody
would call Open. I do believe that the Holy Spirit helps us to
understand scripture, because He wrote it in the first place.
The continuing for me is called sanctification. Many things in
the Bible are clear. Anybody can see some things. I do not avoid
labels for myself either. Words mean things and help us
understand things. If you know what I am, you can then relate
to me. Talk about rambling! What time is it anyway?”
>
--- End Quote ---
@Joechan82
Please forgive me. I think you quoted part of my post in your
initial response, but it showed up without quotes, so I didn’t
check the end of your post to see that you had added your words
to explain the response and I was concerned I had messed
something up and somehow posted in a way that quoted to show the
post as if it was you.
Anyhow, please forgive me. I’ve fixed it and quoted your words
to retain your post.
If you highlight, copy and past your words, then repost, your
post will be restored as you originally had it.
It was a total error on my part. I won’t let it happen again.
So very sorry!
@Patrick Jane ... please forgive me. I know what I did wrong
and won’t do it again.
I hit the wrong button.
*****************************************************
Page 3 of 7
DIR Previous Page
DIR Next Page