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DIR Return to: From The Desk of Bernard Pyron
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#Post#: 1996--------------------------------------------------
Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division of D
ispensationalism
By: bernardpyron Date: November 4, 2018, 12:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division of
Dispensationalism
"For in Christ Jesus nether circumcision availeth any thing at
all nor uncircumcision: but a new creature. 16 And as many as
walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and
upon Israel that pertaineth to God."
This is from the Tyndale-Cloverdale New Testament in Modern
English Spelling.
In Galatians 6: 15-16 Paul repeats what he had said in II
Corinthians 5: 17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a
new creature. Old things are passed away: behold, all things are
become new. "
A New Testament text by Paul which supports Galatians 6: 15-16
and II Corinthians 5: 17 is Romans 12: 2, "And fashion not
yourselves like unto this world: But be changed through the
renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what thing that good,
that acceptable, and perfect will of God is. "
I prefer the King James translation of Romans 12: 2 - "And be
not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the
renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and
acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
The King James emphasizes the Greek word
μεταμορφου`
3;θαι,
metamorphousathai. or metamorphosis.
Through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ the New Creature or
New Person created in Christ has undergone a metamorphosis, a
large change, a transformation.
It is these people, who have undergone a large transformation in
Christ by the Holy Spirit, though faith in the Gospel who in
verse 15 are said by Paul to be the Israel of God.
Why refer to them as "the Israel of God?" Why not just call
them Israel?
Paul in Romans 9: 6-8 says ". For they are not all Israel, which
are of Israel:
7.
children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8.
are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are
counted for the seed."
And in I Corinthians 10: 18 Paul says "Behold Israel after the
flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the
alter?"
There is ισραηλ
κατα σαρκα, or
Israel Kata Sarka, Israel after the flesh, in I Corinthians 10:
18 and a different ισραηλ
του θεου, or Israel of God,
in Galatians 6: 16.
We know from Galatians 3: 28 and Romans 10: 12 that in the
Israel of God in Galatians 6: 16 are both Jews of Faith and
Gentiles of Faith.
Romans 10: 12 says "For there is no difference between the Jew
and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that
call upon him"
Then Galatians 3: 28-29, at the end of Paul's important chapter
on faith. says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither
bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all
one in Christ Jesus.
29.
heirs according to the promise."
Paul had said in Galatians 3: 14 "That the blessing of Abraham
might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might
receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
#Post#: 2014--------------------------------------------------
Re: Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division
of Dispensationalism
By: guest8 Date: November 5, 2018, 7:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=bernardpyron link=topic=211.msg1996#msg1996
date=1541355531]
Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division of
Dispensationalism
"For in Christ Jesus nether circumcision availeth any thing at
all nor uncircumcision: but a new creature. 16 And as many as
walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and
upon Israel that pertaineth to God."
This is from the Tyndale-Cloverdale New Testament in Modern
English Spelling.
In Galatians 6: 15-16 Paul repeats what he had said in II
Corinthians 5: 17, "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a
new creature. Old things are passed away: behold, all things are
become new. "
A New Testament text by Paul which supports Galatians 6: 15-16
and II Corinthians 5: 17 is Romans 12: 2, "And fashion not
yourselves like unto this world: But be changed through the
renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what thing that good,
that acceptable, and perfect will of God is. "
I prefer the King James translation of Romans 12: 2 - "And be
not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the
renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and
acceptable, and perfect, will of God."
The King James emphasizes the Greek word
μεταμορφου`
3;θαι,
metamorphousathai. or metamorphosis.
Through faith in the Gospel of Jesus Christ the New Creature or
New Person created in Christ has undergone a metamorphosis, a
large change, a transformation.
It is these people, who have undergone a large transformation in
Christ by the Holy Spirit, though faith in the Gospel who in
verse 15 are said by Paul to be the Israel of God.
Why refer to them as "the Israel of God?" Why not just call
them Israel?
Paul in Romans 9: 6-8 says ". For they are not all Israel, which
are of Israel:
7.
children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
8.
are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are
counted for the seed."
And in I Corinthians 10: 18 Paul says "Behold Israel after the
flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the
alter?"
There is ισραηλ
κατα σαρκα, or
Israel Kata Sarka, Israel after the flesh, in I Corinthians 10:
18 and a different ισραηλ
του θεου, or Israel of God,
in Galatians 6: 16.
We know from Galatians 3: 28 and Romans 10: 12 that in the
Israel of God in Galatians 6: 16 are both Jews of Faith and
Gentiles of Faith.
Romans 10: 12 says "For there is no difference between the Jew
and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that
call upon him"
Then Galatians 3: 28-29, at the end of Paul's important chapter
on faith. says "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither
bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all
one in Christ Jesus.
29.
heirs according to the promise."
Paul had said in Galatians 3: 14 "That the blessing of Abraham
might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might
receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]I think you will find what you speak of here
in earlier passages than paulines epistles. Look to Mat, Mark,
Luke, John, Acts and so-forth about the Kingdom of GOD.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 2022--------------------------------------------------
Re: Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division
of Dispensationalism
By: bernardpyron Date: November 6, 2018, 7:57 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Before I was on this forum and was posting only on Theology
Online I noticed that on ECT - Exclusively Christian Theology -
that there was a group of dispensationalists who were using a
form of the dialectic in their arguments, which were almost
always one liners or very brief comments. They were sometimes
playing games with their dialectic and were verbally attacking
and sometimes mocking others who disagreed with them. I have
not seen exactly that same kind of dialectic here.
But - to try to argue against Galatians 6: 15-16 as pointing to
a group of the elect of God, transfomed by faith in the Gospel
through the Holy Spirit - regardless of their physical DNA,
literally from Abraham, by bringing up the doctrine of the
Kingdom of God by New Testament writers other than Paul seems to
me to be a dialectic type of argument. That is, if
dispensationalism is now said to involve a separation of the
doctrine of the Kingdom of God from Paul's teachings in
Galatians on faith and unity between Gentiles and Jews of faith
then that dispensationalism itself is little but a dialectic
attack upon the Gospel.
Here is part of my recent post here on "The New Collectivism and
the Dialectic As A Belief Changing Procedure."
"Marx is said to have "turned Hegel on his head" in making the
dialectic of Hegel atheistic and without morality. The Marxist
version of the Hegelian dialectic has been developed into a
belief and attitude change procedure, which also infiltrated the
major institutions,including the churches, in the 20th century.
Carl Rogers and other Encounter Group Facilitators used forms of
the Marxist version of the Hegelian Dialectic. The Marxist
dialectic was made into an attitude and belief changing
procedure by American psychologists, who did not always identify
themselves as Marxists. Dean Gotcher has written and talked
about this work by American social, personality and clinical
psychologists. Gotcher goes so far as to say that "Psychology is
Marxism - Psychotherapists are Marxists."
Gotcher got on the trail of Carl R, Rogers, which became a hot
trail after Rogers left the University of Wisconsin in the
sixties for Southern California, to became a Facilitator for the
Encounter Group Movement.
The dialectic was further developed in the Encounter Group
Movement by facilitators as a method for changing attitudes and
beliefs, which became part of the new collectivist movement in
America.
Some forms of the dialectic were popularized and used by the
media, in education, by government and in the churches to some
extent, especially in the mega church movement. Rick Warren used
the dialectic in small groups.
Rick Warren said that "Small groups are the most effective way
of closing the back door of your church."
But beyond Rick Warren's use of the Encounter Group attitude
changing procedure, forms of the dialectic as a method of making
an argument became popularly used in Christian dialogue..
Remember that we can see a dialogue as being necessary to set up
the dialectic change procedure in Genesis 3: 1-6, where Satan
deceived Eve into disobeying God. . In Chapter 8 of John the
Pharisees were making arguments opposing the doctrines of
Christ,who was there with them. They were using a form of the
dialectic to argue against Christ's absolute truth.This is a
second characteristic of the dialectic, making that which is
absolute truth - the word of God - into the thesis and directly
opposing it by an anti thesis.
"The dialectic is man thinking through his feelings. This is the
reason God flooded the world and will judge the world again.
"And as it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be also in the
days of the Son of man." (Luke 17:26 ).God cannot speak into the
pre-flood, Tower of Babel, Sodom and Gomorrah, dialectic mind."
Quotes from Dean Gotcher
The presence now of the dialectic mind could be an indication
that the prophecy of Luke 17: 26 is starting to be fulfilled.
The presence of the dialectic mind is a part of the spiritual
darkness which is coming on at this time in history."
#Post#: 2036--------------------------------------------------
Re: Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division
of Dispensationalism
By: bernardpyron Date: November 7, 2018, 3:34 am
---------------------------------------------------------
"Liberals don’t believe there is such a thing as “fact” or
“truth.”
Everything is a struggle for power between rival doctrines." Ann
Coulter
Somewhere in his first three audios on Carl R. Rogers, in his
ten audio series on Rogers, Dean Gotcher explains clearly why he
got on the trail of Carl Rogers. Gotcher said that Abraham H.
Maslow created theories about the self-actualized person, and on
other topics of Humanistic Psychology, but that Rogers practiced
the dialectic in his psychotherapy. Rogers was a major leader of
the Encounter Group Movement which made use of some findings by
experimental social psychology in the Group Dynamics movement,
especially on how to create a cohesive small group to change
individual attitudes and behavior by group pressure. The
Encounter Group Movement under Rogers as a facilitator was a new
American move into collectivism.
In the dialectic as used by Rogers the great importance he
placed on the expression of feelings, "how do you feel?" is
somewhat similar to Ann Coulter's view that the American
Political Left is now failing to believe in facts or truths,
but seeing only the battle to make the Leftist Ideology
all-controlling and in charge. In the Marxist version of the
Hegelian Dialectic, as used widely, even in churches and on
Christian forums, the dialectic is always a dialogue, and in its
most systematic form, it is a dialogue to consensus, and is
based upon feelings more than knowing. Gotcher contrasts the
didactic to the dialectic. He suggests that often in a dialogue,
making use of the dialectic, or opposition between two positions
in the argument, the expression of opinion and feelings about
the topic at hand, is expressed in a shorter way than is
teaching and preaching from the absolute truth of Scripture.
#Post#: 2691--------------------------------------------------
Re: Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division
of Dispensationalism
By: guest8 Date: December 6, 2018, 8:02 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=bernardpyron link=topic=211.msg2036#msg2036
date=1541583291]
"Liberals don’t believe there is such a thing as “fact” or
“truth.”
Everything is a struggle for power between rival doctrines." Ann
Coulter
Somewhere in his first three audios on Carl R. Rogers, in his
ten audio series on Rogers, Dean Gotcher explains clearly why he
got on the trail of Carl Rogers. Gotcher said that Abraham H.
Maslow created theories about the self-actualized person, and on
other topics of Humanistic Psychology, but that Rogers practiced
the dialectic in his psychotherapy. Rogers was a major leader of
the Encounter Group Movement which made use of some findings by
experimental social psychology in the Group Dynamics movement,
especially on how to create a cohesive small group to change
individual attitudes and behavior by group pressure. The
Encounter Group Movement under Rogers as a facilitator was a new
American move into collectivism.
In the dialectic as used by Rogers the great importance he
placed on the expression of feelings, "how do you feel?" is
somewhat similar to Ann Coulter's view that the American
Political Left is now failing to believe in facts or truths,
but seeing only the battle to make the Leftist Ideology
all-controlling and in charge. In the Marxist version of the
Hegelian Dialectic, as used widely, even in churches and on
Christian forums, the dialectic is always a dialogue, and in its
most systematic form, it is a dialogue to consensus, and is
based upon feelings more than knowing. Gotcher contrasts the
didactic to the dialectic. He suggests that often in a dialogue,
making use of the dialectic, or opposition between two positions
in the argument, the expression of opinion and feelings about
the topic at hand, is expressed in a shorter way than is
teaching and preaching from the absolute truth of Scripture.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
You said: "Liberals don’t believe there is such a thing as
“fact” or “truth.”
Everything is a struggle for power between rival doctrines." Ann
Coulter"
Have faith and not worry so much about the world. God is in
control.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 16740--------------------------------------------------
Re: Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division
of Dispensationalism
By: patrick jane Date: August 28, 2020, 3:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Right Blade
#Post#: 19761--------------------------------------------------
Re: Galatians 6: 15-16 and the Two Peoples-Two Program Division
of Dispensationalism
By: patrick jane Date: October 29, 2020, 1:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=211.msg16740#msg16740
date=1598645604]
Right Blade
[/quote] ;D
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