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#Post#: 1986--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: November 3, 2018, 9:38 am
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.
[font=arial]CONNECTING WITH GOD VIA HIGH PRIEST
● Ps 110:4 . . Jehovah has sworn (and he will feel no
regret): You are a priest to time indefinite according to the
manner of Melchizedek
Melchizedek's only personal appearance in the Bible occurs at
Gen 14:18-20. The letter to Hebrews in the New Testament
utilizes him as a "type" of Christ's celestial priesthood.
The author of the letter to Hebrews was reluctant to discuss
Melchizedek's office, and how Christ's current high priest
position relates to it, because the recipients of the letter
were so spiritually immature, and so disinterested in Bible
study, that he feared his comments would result in a ping. In
other words: a discussion of Melchizedek and how he relates to
Jesus Christ isn't everybody's cup of tea so I won't bother
going into detail.
However; at least one of the salient features of Mel's
priesthood should be readily obvious to everybody regardless of
their spiritual acumen: Mel was a human being; just as all of
God's high priests have always been human beings-- no
exceptions. In point of fact, the letter to Hebrews clearly
states that high priests are taken from among men (Heb 5:1). So
that becomes the No.1 qualification for a Melchizedekian priest
right out of the box and instantly disqualifies spirit beings.
Mel's jurisdiction was on the earth. But that was before
Israel's covenanted law established Aaron's priesthood. So when
that happened; Mel's post was temporarily suspended; and in
point of fact, if Christ were on earth, he would not be an
active priest because this is Aaron's district.
However, though Mel's post was moved to heaven's temple, there
were no changes made to the nature of the person who holds the
office. In other words; a priest according to the manner of
Melchizedek is a human being no matter where he is. And since Ps
110:4 made Jesus Christ a priest to time indefinite, then he
will remain a human being to time indefinite; and in order to be
a human being, the Society says he has to have a human body
because in their theology; human existence is entirely physical.
● 1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.
The Greek for both "men" and "man" in that verse is the same.
It's derived from anthropos (anth'-ro-pos) --a common word for
human beings in the New Testament; which is why that passage
doesn't say there is one mediator between God and men, an angel,
Christ Michael. No it doesn't say an angel, Christ Michael; no,
it says a man, Christ Jesus; who everyone knows to be a human
being rather than an angel by the same name.
A search of the entire New Testament for the angel Michael turns
up but two references: Jude 1:9 and Rev 12:7. That angel is
nowhere in the gospels, nowhere in Acts, and nowhere in the
epistles other than Jude. If that angel is so all-fired
important; then why is it so marginalized? Even the Society
itself is a bit perplexed as to why the name of an angel so
highly revered in their theology is nigh unto absent in the New
Testament.
The Society claims that the names Jesus and Michael are
interchangeable; but that's the most ridiculous case of apples
and oranges on record; not to mention a very serious case of
identity fraud. Even if an angel had once existed as a human
being named Jesus; it no longer does. Now it exists as an angel
being named Michael. The two names aren't interchangeable
because the one name denotes a human being and the other name
denotes a spirit being. Go ahead; search the New Testament and
see how much luck you have finding somebody's name hyphenated
like this: Jesus-Michael Christ. You won't because the Society's
theology is an utter fantasy.
Oh what a wicked web we weave,
When first we practice to deceive.
-- Sir Walter Scott --
That poem rings so true. Once Charles T. Russell and/or Joseph
F. Rutherford declared that Michael the angel, and Jesus Christ
the human, are the same person; they were faced with the
Herculean task of forcing the Bible to agree; and that was quite
a challenge; which was accomplished by means of clever amalgams
of fiction, sophistry, half-truths, semantic double speak, and
humanistic reasoning.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1993--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: guest17 Date: November 3, 2018, 6:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=197.msg1981#msg1981
date=1541194645]
[quote author=truthjourney link=topic=197.msg1972#msg1972
date=1541174462]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=197.msg1914#msg1914
date=1540943719]
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=197.msg1912#msg1912
date=1540933778]
.
[font=arial]MEDIATION FOR THE EARTHLY CLASS
● 1Tim 2:5 . . For there is one God, and one mediator
between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.
On page 1129 of the Watchtower publication Aid To Bible
Understanding a mediator is defined as one who interposes
between two parties at variance to reconcile them: an
intercessor.
Here's a question that someone wrote in to the "Questions From
Readers" section of the April 01, 1976 issue of Watchtower
magazine, asking:
Is Jesus the mediator only for anointed Christians? (a.k.a. the
144,000)
The answer given in the magazine is YES.
The magazine's answer is corroborated on page 1130 of Aid To
Bible Understanding where it says that the 144,000 are the only
ones who have the mediator; a.k.a. Jesus Christ. (1John 2:1)
Intercession for non anointed Witnesses is accomplished on the
coattails of the 144,000; viz: Jesus Christ is an indirect,
second party mediator for the rank and file via their
affiliation with the Watchtower Society.
It's sort of like buying insurance from Allstate. The company
doesn't sell direct; its business is conducted through brokers.
In essence, that's what the Society presumes itself: Jesus
Christ's mediation brokerage.
So then; when a Jehovah's Witness either defects or is
dis-fellowshipped, it breaks the pipeline to the mediator that
he enjoyed within the Society's fold; and he right quick loses
all contact with God; and finds himself in grave danger of the
calamities depicted in the book of Revelation.
Bottom line: According to Watchtower Society theology; it is
impossible for non-anointed people to be on peaceful terms with
God apart from affiliation with the Society's anointed class,
a.k.a. the faithful and wise steward.
In other words: Christ's mediation as per 1Tim 2:5 is
accomplished via a chain of communication that begins with
Christ's association with the faithful and wise steward; and
from thence to the rest of humanity. Removing the faithful and
wise steward from the chain cuts humanity off from Christ; thus
leaving them with no way to reconcile with God.
_[/font]
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Plain and simple, Th Jehovah's Witness
(Watchtower Ministries) are a CULT!
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]
I'm sorry to say that I have to agree with that. But I have
compassion for people who are trapped in cults. I would like to
try to help them if I can which is the reason I have been making
posts trying to inform JWs about the Watchtower's deception and
lies. Unfortunately there are those who accuse me of attacking
JWs and that is not what I'm doing.
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
I understand. Have some neighbors (good friends actually) that
are/were and were not? (cannot tell which way they are
now)J-Who's.
I ask them about the 144,000 and the fact that the other 250,000
J-Who's would not get to go to heaven. Their reply was the
others were supposed to have Heaven on Earth instead. They only
believe in Jehovah and not in Jesus Christ as His SON. And like
many in a cult or Not and still believe in its doctrine, you
cannot change their minds. I think they do something to them,
like turning off a light switch vs pulling the power altogether.
They simply will not change.
Blade[/shadow]
[/quote]
I also have good friends who are JWs. But I have found that
before I can talk to them about scriptures that I have to help
them to understand how they have been deceived by the Watchtower
Society and of course they always defend the Governing Body no
matter what they say or do or how many JWs lives have been
destroyed by the doctrines, rules and regulations that come from
the Governing Body.
That barrier has to be broken down before they will listen to
any scriptures that I want to share with them. That has been the
hardest thing to overcome to get them to listen. Because to
them, the Governing Body is "the voice of God" and they have
been so brainwashed to believe that to go against the Governing
Body is going against God himself. They are thoroughly convinced
of that and they don't think that the Governing Body can do any
wrong or make mistakes. They view them as highly anointed.
And I am being misunderstood right now, not on this forum, but
by people saying that I am attacking JWs just because I'm
calling out the Governing Body's church abuse and the twisting
and distorting of scripture and placing themselves up so high
that in JWs view they are equal to God. And that is no
exaggeration. They won't admit that and they will get upset if
its even said to them but its true. And when a JW leaves that
organization they are told that they are leaving God. They
equate themselves with God. That's why they tell JWs that
they're leaving God. JWs aren't leaving God. They're leaving a
corrupt and abusive religion. And the ones who have dared to go
onto the internet and research the history and even present
doctrines and rules have come to realize the truth. But of
course those JWs who do that are called before a judicial
committee and are disfellowshipped for apostasy just for
questioning and disagreeing with the Governing Body. That is not
allowed. Free thinking and critical thinking is not allowed
either.
I know that there are other religions that operate the same way
as The Watchtower does. The same kind of church abuse. The same
method of twisting and distorting of scripture. The same kind of
secrecy and cover up. And I have compassion for people in those
religions. Jesus had compassion for people and he knew exactly
how to speak to them with authority that made them listen. And
he called out some of the religious leaders who were hurting
people.
#Post#: 1997--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: November 4, 2018, 12:28 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]THE FAITHFUL AND WISE STEWARD
● Matt 24:45-47 . .Who really is the faithful and discreet
slave whom his master appointed over his domestics, to give them
their food at the proper time? Happy is that slave if his master
on arriving finds him doing so. Truly I say to YOU, He will
appoint him over all his belongings.
The core of the Watchtower Society-- the Governing Body
--sincerely believes itself the faithful and discreet slave
spoken of in that passage, i.e. believes that God chose the
leaders of the Watchtower Society as His sole distributor of
truth to mankind; thus explaining why John Q and Jane Doe
Jehovah's Witnesses are taught that they need to submit
unquestioningly to the Governing Body in order to associate with
God, and for protection from doomsday, viz: the calamities
depicted in the book of Revelation.
"The faithful and discreet slave” was appointed over Jesus’
domestics in 1919. That slave is the small, composite group of
anointed brothers serving at world headquarters during Christ’s
presence who are directly involved in preparing and dispensing
spiritual food. When this group work together as the Governing
Body, they act as the faithful and discreet slave." (jw.org,
10th Nov 2012)
"That faithful slave is the channel through which Jesus is
feeding his true followers in this time of the end. It is vital
that we recognize the faithful slave. Our spiritual health and
our relationship with God depend on this channel." (Watchtower,
2013 Jul 15, p.20)
"We need to obey the faithful and discreet slave to have
Jehovah’s approval." (Watchtower, 2011 Jul 15, p.24, Simplified
English Edition)
"[A mature christian] does not advocate or insist on personal
opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible
understanding. Rather, he has complete confidence in the truth
as it is revealed by Jehovah God through his Son, Jesus Christ,
and "the faithful and discreet slave." (Watchtower, 2001 Aug 01,
p.14)
However: paragraph 12, under the heading; "Who is leading God's
People today?" of the Feb 2017 Watchtower--Study Edition, says:
"The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible.
Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational
direction. In fact, the Watch Tower Publications Index includes
the heading “Beliefs Clarified,” which lists adjustments in our
Scriptural understanding since 1870. Of course, Jesus did not
tell us that his faithful slave would produce perfect spiritual
food."
Just imagine the degree of confusion and insecurity that would
pervade the minds of regular Christians had the authors of the
New Testament scriptures attached a caveat to their writings
similar to the above.
NOTE: I've had JW missionaries tell me that The Watchtower
magazine isn't an authority in matters of faith and practice.
But the Jan 1, 1942 issue of the magazine, on page 5, speaks for
itself as a trustworthy source of Watchtower Society theology by
saying:
"Those who are convinced that The Watchtower is publishing the
opinion or expression of a man should not waste time in looking
at it at all. Those who believe that God uses he Watchtower as a
means of communicating to his people, or of calling attention to
his prophecies, should study The Watchtower."
In other words: the haulers of water and the hewers of wood--
viz: the rank and file --are not only expected to know what's in
the Watchtower magazine, but they're also required to accept it
as the God's truth.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: November 5, 2018, 1:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]MIGHTY ONES
The Watchtower Society's theology is a based on a version called
monolatrism, which basically alleges that all gods are actual
deities; though not all deities are deemed worthy of worship.
This is not quite the same as polytheism where numerous gods are
all considered worthy of worship.
Monolatrism is distinguished from monotheism (asserts the
existence of only one god) and distinguished from henotheism (a
religious system in which the believer worships one god alone
without denying that others may worship different gods of equal
value)
While classical Christianity recognizes but two categories of
gods: the true and the false, viz: the authentic and the
imitation, the intrinsic and the artificial. The Watchtower
Society's theologians took the liberty to create a third
sandwiched between the true and the false called "mighty ones".
The mighty-one category is a sort of neutral zone where
qualifying personages exist as bona fide deities without
violating the very first of the Ten Commandments. For example:
"I myself have said: You are gods" (Ps 82:6)
The gods referred to in that passage are humans; which everybody
should know are only imitation deities rather than the genuine
article; so in order to avoid stigmatizing humans as fake gods,
the Society classifies them as mighty ones.
This gets kind of humorous when we plug "mighty one" into
various locations. For example:
"In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and
the Word was a mighty one." (John 1:1)
And another:
"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten mighty one
who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has
explained him." (John 1:18)
The "mighty one" category was an invention of necessity. In
other words: without it, the Society would be forced to classify
the only-begotten (John 1:18) and the Word (John 1:1) as a false
god seeing as how Deut 6:4, John 17:3, and 1Cor 8:4-6 testify
that there is only one true god.
OBJECTION: Jesus verified the authenticity of Ps 82:6 in a
discussion recorded at John 10:34-36. If the word of God cannot
be nullified, then those gods have to be real gods.
RESPONSE: Oh; they're real alright: real imitations. According
to Deut 6:4, John 17:3, and 1Cor 8:4-6 there is only one true
god. Therefore the gods in Ps 82 are artificial gods. True gods
don't die; viz: they're immortal, impervious to death. The gods
in Psalm 82 are not immortal.
So then, what does all this say about God's son? Well; if God's
son is only a mighty one, as the Watchtower Society alleges;
then he's an artificial god and his divinity is no more divine
in reality than a totem pole or a statue of Shiva.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2025--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: November 6, 2018, 10:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]THE LIVING GOD(S)
● Jer 10:10 . . Jehovah is in truth God. He is the living
god.
The Hebrew word for "living" in that passage is chay (khah'-ee)
which first appears in the Bible at Gen 1:20 where it speaks of
aqua life and winged life. Then it appears at Gen 1:24 where it
speaks of life on land. It appears again at Gen 2:7 where it
speaks of human life.
Vegetation is never spoken of as chay. So I think we can limit
the kind of life spoken of by chay as conscious life; viz:
sentient existence.
Jehovah is called the living god something like fifteen times in
the Old Testament, and fifteen more times in the New.
I'm unaware of any other gods in the whole Bible identified as
living gods; not even the gods of Psalm 82 to whom God said "You
are gods".
Because of that; I think it safe to conclude that no other god
is a living god. In other words: labeling Jehovah as the living
god is a way of saying He is the only god that's actually
eternal, i.e. always was, always is, and always shall be. This
has some serious ramifications.
Speaking of Christ:
● Col 2:9 . . It is in him that all the fullness of the
divine quality dwells bodily.
The Greek word for "divine quality" is theotes (theh-ot'-ace)
which means: divinity
Seeing as how theotes is modified by the Greek definite article
"ho" then what we're looking at here in Col 2:9 isn't
nondescript divinity, but rather the divinity. In other words:
we're looking at the fullness of the divinity of the living god.
Just about everybody on both sides of the aisle agrees that the
Word spoken of at John 1:1 is a god. However: the Word isn't
just any god; no, the fullness of the divinity of the living god
dwells in the Word; viz: the Word is a living god, i.e. the life
that's in the Word always was, always is, and always shall be.
● John 5:26 . . For just as the Father has life in
himself, so He has granted also to the Son to have life in
himself.
When the Father granted the Son to have life in himself just as
the Father has life in Himself, things got a bit complicated
because unless Jehovah and the Word are different names for the
same personage; there is now one too many living gods out there.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2041--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: November 7, 2018, 2:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]THE FIRSTBORN
● Col 1:15 . . He is the firstborn of all creation
The Watchtower Society has appropriated that verse as evidence
that God's son was the first thing created before everything
else in the cosmos.
However, the New Testament Greek word for "firstborn" in that
verse is [I]prototokos[/I], which never means created first; no,
it always means born first. The correct Greek word for created
first is [I]protoktistos[/I].
The average Watchtower Society missionary doesn't know the
difference between prototokos and protoktistos; and no doubt
would care little about it anyway. To some of them; born first
and created first are essentially one and the same.
But are they the same? No. Birthing requires a parent while
creating requires a craftsman. Birthing produces progeny while
crafting produces projects. God's son wasn't a project; no, he's
God's progeny.
However; firstborn doesn't always refer to birth order. The term
also refers to pay grade, so to speak, and as such is
transferrable from an elder to a younger, e.g. Jacob and Esau
(Gen 25:23) Manasseh and Ephraim (Gen 48:13-14) and Reuben and
Joseph (Gen 49:3-4, 1Chr 5:1).
There was a time when David was God's firstborn (Ps 89:20-27).
The position was later transferred to one of David's sons (Dan
7:13-14, Ps 110:1, Matt 22:42-45, Phil 2:9-11). So for now and
forever; neither anything nor anybody is higher up on creation's
chain of command than Christ.
You'd think that the Jews' religious experts of Jesus' day would
have known about this.
● Matt 22:41-46 . . Now while the Pharisees were gathered
together Jesus asked them: “What do you think about the Christ?
Whose son is he?” They said to him: “David’s" He said to them:
“How, then, is it that David by inspiration calls him ‘Lord,’
saying, ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I
put your enemies beneath your feet” ’? If, therefore, David
calls him ‘Lord,’ how is he his son?”
Jesus referred to Psalm 110:1, which reads like this in the NWT.
The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is: “Sit at my right hand
until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”
The Hebrew word for "Lord" in that verse is [I]'adown[/I]
(aw-done'); a very common title of respect for one's superiors
in the Old Testament. Sarah revered her husband Abraham as
'adown (Gen 18:12) Rachel revered her dad Laban as 'adown (Gen
31:5) and Jacob revered his brother Esau as 'adown (Gen 33:8).
So then; Psalm 110:1 can be translated like this:
The utterance of Jehovah to my superior: "Sit at my right hand
until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet."
David is the paterfamilias of his own line of royalty, making
him superior to all of his male progeny; none of them outrank
him, all are his subordinates. But Ps 110:1 speaks of one of
David's male progeny who somehow breaks the rules; and the Jews'
religious experts were utterly baffled by it.
● Matt 22:46 . . And no one was able to answer him a word
The Jews' religious experts were no doubt aware, by means of
their Old Testament studies, that the rank of firstborn can be
moved around among siblings, but nobody even dreamed it could be
taken away from one's self and given to one's offspring. This
was something strange to their Jewish way of thinking; yet there
it is in black and white in their own scriptures. They had
somehow failed to catch the significance of Ps 110:1 until Jesus
drew their attention to it.
● Eph 1:20-21 . .It is according to the operation of the
mightiness of his strength, with which he has operated in the
case of the Christ when he raised him up from the dead and
seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above
every government and authority and power and lordship and every
name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that
to come.
● Phil 2:8-11 . . God exalted him to a superior position
and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so
that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in
heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every
tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to
the glory of God the Father.
Q: What is the name that is above every other name?
A: Jehovah
Q: Is that another reason why Jesus is superior to David?
A: Yes. Jesus has the God-given right to use Jehovah's name as
his own name; which allows him all the respect and reverence
that the name deserves; viz: failure to revere Jesus as Jehovah
dishonors the name of God the Father.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2060--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: November 8, 2018, 9:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]OTHER
Below is the text of Col 1:16-17 quoted verbatim from the
Watchtower Society's New World Translation of the Holy
Scriptures ©1969.
"Because by means of him all [other] things were created in the
heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things
invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or
governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created
through him and for him. Also, he is before all [other] things
and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist."
Note that the word "other" is in brackets. This alert readers
that "other" is not in the Greek manuscript; viz: the Society's
editors took the liberty to pencil it in; which gives the
impression that God's son was His first creation; and
thereafter, His son created everything else.
One day, a pair of Watchtower missionaries came to my door
consisting of an experienced worker and a trainee. I immediately
began subjecting the trainee to a line of questioning that homed
in on the Society's rather dishonest habit of penciling in words
that go to reinforcing it's line of thinking.
I had him read the Society's text of Col 1:16-17 and then
pointed out that the word "other" is in brackets to alert him to
the fact that "other" is not in the Greek manuscript. The
experienced worker corroborated my statement.
I then proceeded to have the trainee read the passage sans
"other". It comes out like this:
"By means of him all things were created in the heavens and upon
the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no
matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or
authorities. All things have been created through him and for
him. Also, he is before all things and by means of him all
things were made to exist."
The trainee's eyes really lit up; and he actually grinned with
delight to discover that Col 1:16-17 reveals something quite
different than what he was led to believe.
Had I pressed the attack; I would have pointed out to the
trainee that the Society is inconsistent with its use of the
word "other" by failing to pencil it into John 1:3 in order to
make it read like this:
"All [other] things came into existence through him, and apart
from him not even one [other] thing came into existence."
Now; as to tampering with Paul's letters, and forcing them to
mean things they don't say in writing; this is what Peter has to
say about that.
● 2Pet 3:15-16 . . Furthermore, consider the patience of
our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul
according to the wisdom given him also wrote you, speaking about
these things as he does also in all his letters. In them,
however, are some things hard to understand, which the untaught
and unsteady are twisting, as they do also the rest of the
Scriptures, to their own destruction.
Untaught people are oftentimes self-taught; and were the
Society's missionaries to check into ol' Charles T. Russell's
rather ignoble past; they'd find that "self-taught" pretty much
describes the origin of their theology.
NOTE: The 1984 revised version of the New World Translation
omits brackets around the word "other" in Col 1:16-17. However,
it's readily seen from the Watchtower Society's Kingdom
Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures that "other" is
nowhere to be found in the Greek text.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2064--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: guest17 Date: November 8, 2018, 2:19 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I've spoken to JWs many times at my door. But this one time,
they kept repeating the words, "New World Order". So when the
woman said it once again, I said to her, "You must be a big fan
of George Bush." She gave me a puzzled look and said, "No. Why
do you say that?" I said, "Well, he's always saying those exact
words, "New World Order". Maybe you need to find out why he
says that so much and what it means." She said, "Oh, we aren't
political that way". I said, "Well you could have fooled me
because you sound just like him saying "New World Order"
repeatedly."
There's a reason why JWs use that phrase so much. I won't go
into all that right now.
But I will say for an organization that claims that its not
political, it sure seems strange that the Governing Body were
members of the United Nations from 1991 to 2001. Now if the
United Nations is not a political organization then I don't know
what is. Of course the rank and file JW was not aware of this
till the Guardian newspaper did a story on it. And many JWs left
that organization when that was made public because the rank and
file JW better not even think about being part of a political
organization or they will be disfellowshipped real quick. So
many JWs saw the hypocrisy with that and left that organization.
But there are many other things that the Watchtower keeps secret
from its members.
#Post#: 2085--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: November 9, 2018, 9:53 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]MONOGENES
[SIZE=2][B]Q[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]:[/B] One translation of John
1:18 says that Jesus is the only-begotten god; while another
translation says Jesus is the only begotten son. Which
translation is correct?[/size]
[SIZE=2][B]A[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]:[/B] Either translation will
do because, biologically speaking, they're both saying the very
same thing.
John 1:14, John 1:18, John 3:16, John 3:18, and 1John 4:9 are
translated from the Greek word monogenes (mon-og-en-ace') which
is a combination of two words.
The first is mono, which music buffs recognize as a single
channel rather than two or four in surround sound stereo. Mono
is very common; e.g. monogamy, monofilament, monotonous,
mononucleotide, monochrome, monogram, monolith, monologue,
monomial, et al.
The other word is genes; from whence we get the English word
gene; which Webster's defines as a biological term indicating a
part of a cell that controls or influences the appearance,
growth, etc., of a living thing. In other words: monogenes
refers to one biological gene set rather than many.
Monogenes always, and without exception, refers to a couple's
sole biological child in the New Testament. If a couple has two
or more biological children, none of them qualify as monogenes
because in order to qualify as a monogenes child, the child has
to be an only child. Obviously then, an adopted child can never
be monogenes because it wouldn't be the parents' biological
child. Examples of monogenes children are located at Luke 7:12,
Luke 8:42, and Luke 9:38.
So then, scientifically speaking, Christ is unique in that he is
God's biological offspring, while God's other sons are not; viz:
they're placed as sons, i.e. adopted. (Rom 8:15-16, Gal 4:4-6,
Eph 1:4-5)[/size]
[SIZE=2][B]Q[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]:[/B] God literally fathered a
child?[/size]
[SIZE=2][B]A[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]:[/B] I think it's probably a
bit more accurate to say that God literally co-fathered a
child.[/size]
[SIZE=2][B]Q[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]:[/B] How did he do it? Is
there a Mrs. God? And who was the other father?[/size]
[SIZE=2][B]A[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]:[/B] Jesus' conception,
described at Luke 1:26-35, wasn't only miraculous, it was a very
unusual combination of human and divine.
David contributed the human element. (Luke 1:32, Acts 13:22-23,
Rom 1:1-3, and 2Tim 2:8)
God contributed the divine element. (Luke 1:35 and 1John 3:9)
Jesus then, is just as much God's progeny as he is David's; and
just as much David's progeny as he is God's.[/size]
[SIZE=2][B]Q[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]:[/B] What about Heb 11:17
where Isaac is stated to be Abraham's monogenes child? Wasn't
Ishmael a biological child of his too?[/size]
[SIZE=2][B]A[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]:[/B] Isaac is the only
biological child that Abraham and Sarah produced together; just
as Jesus is the only biological child that God and Man produced
together.
To say that this is all very baffling, illogical, unscientific,
and unreasonable would be an understatement. In my mind's normal
way of thinking, Christ's rather odd case of mixed-species
genetics is an outlandish fantasy that, biologically, makes no
sense at all. It's sort of like crossing an iguana with an
apricot to produce a reptilian fruit tree. But; the
circumstances of Christ's conception are in the Bible, so those
of us who call ourselves Christians have got to accept it.
_[/size][/font]
#Post#: 2106--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: November 10, 2018, 2:00 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]FAIL SAFE
According to John 8:29, 2Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, and 1Pet 2:22;
Jesus committed no sins of his own.
The Watchtower Society is of the opinion that Christ didn't sin
because he "chose" not to sin. In other words: he could have
failed, he could have sinned.
That's what they say; but it's not what the Bible says. The fact
of the matter is; Christ's divine genetics make it impossible
for him to sin.
● 1John 3:9 . . Everyone who has been born from God does
not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed remains in
such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born
from God. (NWT)
That translation makes it look as though one born of God's
reproductive seed sins now and then but not all the time; viz:
doesn't make a habit of sin. But the text on the Greek side of
the Society's Kingdom Interlinear reads like this:
"He is not able to be sinning because out of God he has been
generated."
There's more:
● Col 2:9 . . It is in him that all the fullness of the
divine quality dwells bodily. (NWT)
The Greek word translated "divine quality" is theotes
(theh-ot'-ace) which means divinity; defined by Webster's as the
quality or state of being divine.
I don't mean to split hairs but the order of those two words in
a sentence makes a difference: divine quality and the quality of
being divine are not the same. For example: patience is a divine
quality, but people capable of patience aren't eo ipso divine.
So let's get that straightened out right from the get-go.
Anyway; what we're looking at in Col 2:9 isn't nondescript
divinity; rather, "the" divinity; viz: we're looking at God's
divinity; which I think pretty safe to assume is impeccable. I
seriously doubt even the Devil himself could fail and/or sin
were he brimming with not just a percentage; but with all the
fullness of God's divinity.
Q: If it was impossible for Christ to either sin or fail; then
what practical purpose did his temptation serve?
A: Christ testified "I always do the things pleasing to Him"
(John 8:29). The Devil's failure to break Christ certifies the
truth of his statement. In other words: Christ was proof-tested
to demonstrate that he contains no flaws.
No doubt the Devil expected that after forty days in the outback
without food, Christ would be worn down to the point where he
would no longer care whether he sinned or not. But it made no
difference. Christ was still just as incapable of sin after
forty days in the outback as he was during the first thirty
years of his life in Nazareth because Christ's innocence doesn't
depend upon his resolve; rather, upon his genetics so to speak;
viz: upon God's [reproductive] seed. (1John 3:9)
While we're on the subject: what is the one thing God cannot do?
Well; the JWs' conditioned response is that God cannot lie (Heb
6:18). But a better response than that is God cannot sin. In
point of fact: it is just as impossible for God to sin as it is
for His progeny to sin. I mean; think about it. If God's progeny
is unable to sin due to the intrinsically sinless nature of
God's reproductive seed; then it goes without saying that the
source of that seed would be unable to sin too.
● Jas 1:13 . . For with evil things God cannot be tried.
(NWT)
NOTE: The Watchtower Society religion is a bit of an odd duck in
the world of Christianity. While most, if not all, of the other
denominations seek to glorify Christ; it seems the Society's
primary mission in life is to ruin him.
A very common Greek word in the New Testament for the Devil is
diabolos (dee-ab'-ol-os) which refers to traducers; defined by
Webster's as someone who exposes others to shame or blame by
means of falsehood and misrepresentation; i.e. slander
_[/font]
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