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#Post#: 1829--------------------------------------------------
Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 26, 2018, 5:39 am
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[font=arial]CONTACT
For a home-spun religion whose origin is relatively recent, the
Watchtower Society has done pretty well for itself. Beginning
with one man shortly after the American Civil War, it currently
numbers approximately 8.2 active members spread out in
approximately 118,000 congregations worldwide. (Congregations
have been displaced and consolidated in recent years due to the
Society liquidating a number of Kingdom Halls in order to settle
its legal obligations.)
My first encounter with a Watchtower Society missionary (a.k.a.
Jehovah's Witness) occurred in 1969. At the time I was young and
inexperienced; and thus assumed that the hewer of wood, and
hauler of water coming down my dad's driveway was a typical
Christian.
But when I talked this over with an elder; he became alarmed;
and urged me to read a little book titled "30 Years A Watchtower
Slave" by William J. Schnell; whom the Society at one time
demonized as an agent of Satan. I would not be surprised if it
still does.
After getting my eyes opened by Mr. Schnell's book, I was
afterwards steered towards another book titled "Kingdom Of The
Cults" by Walter Martin. No doubt the Society demonizes Mr.
Martin too.
Around late 1980, my wife and I attended a series of lectures
sponsored by a local church titled "How To Witness To Jehovah's
Witnesses". The speaker (call him Pete) was an ex JW who had
been in the Watchtower Society system for near three decades
before terminating his involvement; so he knew the twists and
turns of its doctrines pretty good.
Pete didn't train us to hammer the Society's missionaries in a
discussion because even if you best them scripture for
scripture, they will not give up on the Society. Their mind's
unflinching premise is that the Society is right even when it
appears to be totally wrong. They are thoroughly convinced that
the Society is the voice of God, while your voice has no more
validity than that of a squeaky little gerbil.
Later on, I read a book titled "Why I Left The Jehovah's
Witnesses" by Ted Dencher. I also read the Society's little
brown book titled "[I]Reasoning From The Scriptures[/I]".
(This was all before the internet and the ready volumes of
information available on YouTube.)
From all that vetting, study, and training I quickly discovered
that although the Watchtower Society uses many of classical
Christianity's standard terms and phrases, those terms and
phrases mean something entirely different in the Witness mind
than what you'd expect because the Society has re-defined the
meanings of those terminologies.
So your first challenge in coping with Watchtower Society
teachings is to scale the language barrier. That by itself is an
Herculean task because you'll not only be up against a tangle of
semantics, but also a Jumanji of twisted scriptures, double
speak, humanistic reasoning, rationalizing, and clever
sophistry.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1830--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 26, 2018, 5:42 am
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[font=arial]STARING INTO THE ABYSS
Raymond Victor Franz was a member of the Governing Body of
Jehovah's Witnesses from October 20, 1971 until his removal on
May 22, 1980, and served at the organization's world
headquarters for fifteen years, from 1965 until 1980.
Mr. Franz resigned, and stated that the request for his
resignation, and his subsequent dis-fellowshipping, resulted
from allegations of apostasy.
Following his departure, Mr. Franz wrote a book titled
"[I]Crisis Of Conscience[/I]" relating his personal experiences
with the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and his views on
Jehovah's Witness teachings. It's a bit expensive in print form,
but as of the date of this writing could be heard audibly for
free on YouTube and/or as a free pdf download.
Mr. Franz's book, and his interviews, are helpful aids for
people wondering if they made the right decision leaving the
Society's fold. It's also helpful for people thinking about
becoming a Jehovah's Witness but not too sure whether they'd be
making a really big, life-changing mistake not easily corrected.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1831--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: guest17 Date: October 26, 2018, 7:40 am
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Before even trying to talk to a JW about scriptures, one needs
to help them to take a look at the leaders of that organization.
Most JWs know very little about the Governing Body and what
they're really doing. JWs don't question the Governing Body
because that is viewed as blasphemy and is a disfellowhipping
offense.
JWs live in fear and they are mentally shackled. Literal chains
and shackles aren't even needed. That's how successful the
Governing Body is with their indoctrination process. JWs need to
be helped to understand what the foundation of that organization
really is and it's a business, a corporation with a religious
front. The Watchtower Society has investments in many companies
which if the average JW knew what those companies are they would
be shocked and appalled. But JWs are discouraged from digging
into the truth through fear tactics, threats, and emotional
blackmail. Families are torn apart and lives are destroyed by
that organization.
#Post#: 1838--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 26, 2018, 10:25 am
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[font=arial]HOPE
Many of the Jehovah's Witness missionaries going door-to-door
throughout the world are honestly, and sincerely, hoping to
enter the kingdom of God; which is why I'm convinced that
Christians really ought to know something about New Testament
hope before engaging JWs in a conversation about it.
● 1Pet 3:15 . . Always ready to make a defense before
everyone that demands of you a reason for the hope in you,
The New Testament Greek word for "hope" in Peter's command is
elpis (el pece') which means to anticipate (usually with
pleasure) and to expect with confidence. Note the elements of
anticipation, and expectation, and confidence.
Webster's definition of hope as a verb is very similar: 1) to
desire with expectation of obtainment, and 2) to expect with
confidence and trust. Note the elements of expectation, and
confidence, and trust.
Webster's definition of hope as a noun is: 1) a desire
accompanied by expectation of, or belief in, fulfillment, and 2)
expectation of fulfillment or success. Note the elements of
expectation, and belief.
In other words: elpis hope is a know-so hope rather than a cross
your fingers hope.
So, unless someone knows for proof-positive, beyond even the
slightest glimmer of sensible doubt, that they have a passport
to the kingdom of God locked in and irrevocable, then of course
it is impossible for them to comply with Peter's instructions
seeing as they would not yet have the kind of hope about which
he wrote.
● Rom 12:12 . . Rejoice in the hope.
When people are praying for the best, while in the back of their
mind dreading the worst, they have absolutely no cause for
rejoicing; no; but they do have plenty of cause to fear the
unknown.
BTW: Elpis hope is one of the three principal elements of
Christianity. (1Cor 13:13)
It's also a "calling". (Eph 4:4)
When people are lacking the kind of hope described by the Greek
word elpis, then I believe it is safe to assume that they have
not yet responded to God's call; or worse, He has not called
them; and quite possibly never will.
● Rom 9:15-16 . . He says to Moses: I will have mercy upon
whomever I do have mercy, and I will show compassion to whomever
I do show compassion. So, then, it depends not upon the one
wishing nor upon the one running, but upon God, who has mercy.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1840--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: guest17 Date: October 26, 2018, 12:23 pm
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Yes I agree. JWs are sincerely and honestly hoping to enter the
Kingdom of God. However there is a hierarchy mentality in that
organization and JWs are taught that only 144,000 will go to
heaven. The Governing Body claim to be at the top of that
hierarchy and they claim to be of the "anointed" and part of the
144,000 along with the previous Governing Body members and some
others out of the JWs since it was founded. They teach all JWs
that the rest of them will live on the new earth while those
that make up the 144,000 will rule with Jesus in heaven over
them. They also teach that anyone who is not a JW is part of
Babylon the Great or Satan's system of false religion who are
doomed to be destroyed in Armageddon. They teach doom and gloom
and stress fear. They are authoritarian and legalistic.
They have what they call the memorial of Christ's death once a
year and only those "anointed" who are part of the remaining
144,000 are allowed to partake of the emblems of the wine and
bread. In each congregation about 99% of those attending will
not partake but will simply pass the wine and bread around.
There may be one or two who will partake out of the entire
congregation. It is said by former JWs that the way this
memorial is conducted is a way to get the majority to reject
Jesus.
The Governing Body does not teach one hope. They teach the
heavenly hope and the earthly hope. So JWs do not believe in one
hope. They accept what the Governing Body teaches about that
because they fear them and the power they have over all JWs. If
JWs disagree or question this then they are disfellowshipped and
then shunned even by family members who are JWs. The family
members then view them as dead and treat them that way.
JWs must realize first of all that they are being misled,
deceived and lied to by the Governing body before they will be
willing to discuss scriptures. That is what blocks them from
listening to anyone else wanting to share scriptures with them.
#Post#: 1841--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 26, 2018, 2:32 pm
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[font=arial]PASSPORT TO GOD'S KINGDOM ON EARTH
It's both tragic and ironic that the Watchtower Society's rank
and file missionaries go worldwide advertising a kingdom that
they themselves will never be allowed to enter. Here's why.
At John 3:3-12, Christ and a Jewish rabbi named Nicodemus
discussed what Christ labeled "earthly things".
The primary earthly thing discussed was the kingdom of God. The
other earthly thing discussed was a spirit-birth requirement to
enter it. In other words: God's kingdom on earth, and a spirit
birth, are joined at the hip.
The Watchtower Society's earthly class (a.k.a. the hewers of
wood and haulers of water; viz: non-anointed JWs) aren't
spirit-born now, nor do they ever expect to be-- not in this
life, nor in the next --yet they hope to enter God's kingdom on
earth. However, seeing as how the spirit-birth requirement is a
must rather than an option; they will not succeed.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1847--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 27, 2018, 8:14 am
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[font=arial]THE WORD
The Watchtower Society will never accept classical
Christianity's teaching that Jesus Christ is Jehovah incognito
simply because the Society's undying premise is that it is
impossible for someone to exist as a spirit being and a human
being simultaneously.
According to the premise: Jehovah's spirit existence would have
to be terminated before He could become a human existence; and I
can easily guarantee that nobody is ever going to convince the
Society otherwise unless they first prove that the Word of John
1:1-4 is impervious to death. In other words; in order to prove
to the Society that it's possible for a spirit being to exist as
a human being simultaneously, it is necessary to prove to the
Society that the Word is an everlasting life; which is a kind of
life that cannot die. Fortunately it's very easy to do because
the apostle John did that part for us.
● 1John 1:1-2 . .That which was from the beginning, which
we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have
viewed attentively and our hands felt, concerning the word of
life, (yes, the life was made manifest, and we have seen and are
bearing witness and reporting to you the everlasting life which
was with the Father and was made manifest to us,)
The Greek word for "everlasting" in that passage is aionios
(ahee-o'-nee-os) which essentially means perpetual; viz: without
interruption.
The Word's human existence as per John 1:14 was as a mortal life
and thus easily interrupted; but seeing as how the Word's spirit
existence as per 1John 1:1-2 is an everlasting life, then it's
impossible for the Word's spirit existence to be interrupted.
Jehovah cannot interrupt His existence as God because Jehovah is
an everlasting life (Gen 21:33, Rom 16:26). In the same manner,
the Word cannot interrupt his existence as the Word because the
Word is an everlasting life too. (John 5:26, 1John 1:1-2)
The Word may have temporarily divested himself of his glory when
he came to the earth to live and die as a human being, but he
did not, and could not, divest himself of his spirit existence
because in order to do that, he would have to die; which is an
impossibility for everlasting life. If that were not so, then it
would be possible to assassinate Jehovah. In point of fact, it
would even be possible for Jehovah to commit suicide.
NOTE: According to chapter 1, verse 1, of John's gospel, the
Word is a god. Well; seeing as how the Word is an everlasting
life, then he's obviously an everlasting god too; viz: the
Watchtower Society's religion has two everlasting gods in it,
and both of those everlasting gods are credited with the
creation of the cosmos with all of its forms of life, matter,
and energy.
Precisely how an everlasting creator can exist simultaneously as
a created thing is one of the mysteries of classical
Christianity that has to be taken on faith rather than reason
because the 3-pound lump of fatty, flabby organic tissue housed
in a man's bony little skull, and sufficing for a mind, is just
too limited to get it; and not even all three of those pounds
are devoted to cognitive processes.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1865--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 28, 2018, 10:49 am
---------------------------------------------------------
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[font=arial]CHRIST'S RESURRECTION
Were John Q and/or Jane Doe Watchtower Society missionary to be
asked if they believe that Jesus Christ rose from the dead, I
can assure you they would answer in the affirmative. However,
what you may not know is that you and they would not be speaking
the same language as the conversation would be talking about two
very different processes that go by the same name. In other
words: you would find yourself thrown off by semantic double
speak.
The classical Christian understanding of Christ's resurrection
is common throughout the gospels; viz: Jesus Christ's dead,
crucified body was restored to life as per John 2:19-22.
"Jesus said to them: Break down this temple, and in three days I
will raise it up. Therefore the Jews said: This temple was built
in forty-six years, and will you raise it up in three days? But
he was talking about the temple of his body. When, though, he
was raised up from the dead, his disciples called to mind that
he used to say this; and they believed the Scripture and the
saying that Jesus said."
You see, if Jesus' dead, crucified body had not been restored to
life, that entire passage would be easily proven false. But
according to the Watchtower Society's way of seeing things;
Christ's dead, crucified body didn't return to life at all; and
here's why.
In Watchtower Society theology, an angel named Michael
volunteered to come to the earth to die for humanity's sins. But
in order to do so; he had to relinquish his angel existence to
become a human existence seeing as how in Society theology it is
impossible for someone to exist as a spirit being and a human
being simultaneously. However, when Michael expired, he didn't
go completely out of existence. Instead, his "life force"
remained intact and was transferred to a human form.
"the transferal of the life of his firstborn Son from the spirit
realm to earth. Only in this way could the child eventually born
have retained identity as the same person who had resided in
heaven as the Word." (Aid to Bible Understanding, 1971, p.920)
"He had to become a perfect man and yet not lose his continuity
of life. His life-force was not to be extinguished but would be
transferred to the ovum of the virgin girl, Mary." (Watchtower
magazine, 2-15-82, p.7)
But Michael's existence as a human being was only temporary.
When his human form passed away on the cross, the Society claims
that God transferred Michael's life force back into his angel
form thus restoring him to his former spirit existence; leaving
the corpse of his human existence in a permanent state of
decease.
NOTE: The Society teaches that death terminates existence; but
apparently not entirely because the Society also believes that
at death, an angel's life force was transferred to another
form-- in Michael's case, from a spirit form to an organic form;
in effect, preserving a portion of Michael's existence so it
could be re-transferred later when God went about restoring
Michael to his former existence.
It could be argued that Jesus lives on in the body of an angel;
but that wouldn't be true seeing as how Jesus' life force was
Michael's to begin with.
The Society has to accept the obvious fact that their doctrine
implies that Jesus Christ was never really fully human, rather,
he was an amalgam of angel and human seeing as how it was the
life force of an angel that kept Jesus' human body alive.
In other words: the Society's Jesus wasn't an organic man in the
normal sense, rather; he was an organic angel; because when you
get right down to it; the nature of one's life force is what
determines the nature of their existence. That's easily seen in
the very first chapter of Genesis wherein all the various
creatures were given a life force pertinent to the nature of
their species
FYI: The Society maintains that Michael's crucified human form
had to stay dead so he could be an angel again. But that's not
the only reason the Society gives for keeping Michael's human
remains perpetually deceased. An additional explanation is given
on page 237 of the April 15, 1963 issue of the Watchtower
magazine; where it's stated:
"If Jesus were to take his body of flesh, blood, and bones to
heaven and enjoy them there, what would this mean? It would mean
that there would be no resurrection of the dead for anybody. Why
not? Because Jesus would be taking his sacrifice off God's
altar."
There is a really, really big flaw in the Society's theology;
and that's Michael's human remains. In order to confirm that his
crucified human body stayed dead, the Society is going to have
produce it. A piece of evidence of that significance can't be
allowed to just slip through a crack unnoticed as if it makes no
difference. As Carl Sagan once said: "Extraordinary claims
require extraordinary evidence." Till then, we should reckon
that when the Bible speaks of Jesus Christ's resurrection, it's
talking about a man's corpse rather than an angel's.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1870--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: guest17 Date: October 28, 2018, 2:27 pm
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The Watchtower Society is also dealing with some legal issues
regarding the hiding and protecting of pedophiles within their
organization. They do this to protect their image.
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VJrLBpmPGQ
#Post#: 1871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Experiencing Jehovah's Witnesses
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 28, 2018, 4:01 pm
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.
[font=arial]Pedophilia isn't unique to Jehovah's Witnesses. It's
prevalent among Catholics and Protestants too, so I don't
recommend attempting to invalidate the Watchtower Book and Tract
Society via that route seeing as how pedophilia isn't all that
uncommon: it's just a fact of life, sort of like people
J-walking and/or coasting thru STOP signs without bringing their
car to a complete halt.
_[/font]
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