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#Post#: 15411--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: July 19, 2020, 8:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X10yCRt39bs
#Post#: 15589--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: July 26, 2020, 9:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHI-gnZG-PE
#Post#: 15647--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: sneakydove
Date: July 28, 2020, 7:18 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Just putting this here to have a place to put it.
One of the prime examples I am frequently given of the world
being a globe has something to do with measuring distances in
the southern hemisphere. People look at the Azimuthal
Equidistant map and say, "Here, look at how long the sun is up
in on the equator and look at how long the sun is up over the
55th degree south latitude. It would be up for different
times." Or, "Look at how fat Australia is. Surely it must be
really long to drive across. How come nobody has done that
yet?"
On the face of it that argument looks quite damaging. People
bring the axioms they are used to using when looking at the
world as a globe and try to use them to break down the flat
earth. But that's exactly the trouble, the axioms of the two
worldviews are very different.
A fair number of globe believers don't really understand what
lines of latitude and longitude represent. Most think of them
as being ways of breaking up the ball earth into regular
sections. In reality the lines of latitude and longitude are
measurements of earth made relative to the fixed features of the
sky and the passage of time. For example, Polaris the North
Star is the central focus of the northern lines of latitude, 90
degrees north latitude meaning the North Star would be directly
overhead. (Not that anybody has actually claimed to be there,
but I digress.) Lines of longitude have been arbitrarilya
designated to come from Greenwich in England. They have no
fixed-in-time celestial marker like Polaris, although they do
have regular markers in the form of the zodiac and the sun.
Considering that these lines are the product of the relationship
between the sky and the earth, and how we primarily calculate
the measurements of the (ball) earth stem from the sky via the
Eratosthenes method, using these lines to disprove the flat
earth is irrelevant. In the globe concept, the earth is a ball
and the sky's features extend effectively infinitely out in all
directions. In the planar concept, the earth is flat and the
sky presents itself to us as though the inside of a sphere when
(assuming the dome firmament worldview) those features are
refracted through the watery medium of the dome firmament. In a
simple abstract, if the shape of the earth shifts, the shape of
the sky shifts a similar proportion.
So to goes the discrepancy of measurement of distances with
statute distances (like kilometers or miles), to relational
distances (seconds, minutes, and degrees lat/long and nautical
miles)b. Statute distances are of fixed value over the face of
the earth (or up, or nonlinearly). Relational distances like
nautical miles change depend upon your markers, in this case
celestial markers. For example, you can walk a mile on a
winding path or on a straight path and personally travel the
same distance. However, if you were measuring the distance
traveled relative to a fixed point, the winding path would
result in an absolute measurement of shorter distance than the
straight path.
On an Azimuthal plane, relational distances in the southern
hemisphere would become longer if measured statute. However
this is further complicated by how those areas were first
charted in the first place. They were almost certainly charted
relationally to the celestial features when they were first
measured. How much of that then was measured statute and how
much was measured relational? As time has passed, whosoever is
"in-the-know" of this grand conspiracy has certainly dipped
their toes into the method of measure of these southern regions,
if they were not the primary charters. If an individual wants
to know the score on how the alleged down-under was measured,
they would have to perform the relational and statute
measurements from scratch and compare notes to the accepted
values. Using celestial bodies alone as a method of proving or
disproving the Azimuthal plane as the shape of the earth is
moot.
Historically, there are records of the southern areas not
corresponding to charted values. In particular this was noted
in longer travel times for goods being shipped across the
Atlantic to or past the southern coast of Africa. Additionally,
there are reports of traversing the southern hemisphere near
along a particular southern latitude taking a great deal more
time than anticipated. If memory serves, these instances are
both noted in the works of Samuel Rowbothamp. Contemporary
indications are noted in the absence of flight-tracking south of
the equator.c Similar discrepencies are noted for freight ships
leaving Australia.d
It is far more difficult to measure the earth than the main
stream would have you believe. I would even go so far to say as
it is impossible to truly measure the earth. I'm reminded of
God challenging Job to measure the breadth of the earth. The
methods we have used or have been taught to use have been based
on faulty axioms and thus resulted in the mess of the globe.
a Exactly how arbitrary that may be relative to occulted sources
I can't say for certain.
b The definition of nautical miles has fairly recently been
given a standard statute value of roughly 1.82 km if memory
serves. This further compounds the contemporary confusion.
c Given the crackdown on flat earth content on the main stream
platforms, it would not surprise me if some simulated elements
in flight tracking have been added. I can say that when I first
came to research the shape of the world I was unable to find
consistent flight data off Brazil.
d If I can find the source again I should like to link it here.
p I have found a reference as being from Alex Gleason's "Is the
Bible from Heaven, Is the Earth a Globe" in chapter 19, p379.
Also of interest is Gleason's Chapter 17 which covers other
items brought up in this post.
#Post#: 15671--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: July 28, 2020, 11:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Excellent post sneakydove, much appreciated. I might post this
in another thread here also.
#Post#: 15729--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: July 30, 2020, 11:54 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I'm still pondering this
#Post#: 15750--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: sneakydove
Date: July 31, 2020, 8:43 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Is there anything I can clarify for you?
#Post#: 15751--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: July 31, 2020, 8:58 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: sneakydove link ---
>
> Is there anything I can clarify for you?
>
--- End Quote ---
Not yet as I agree with everything you posted. I heard that
nautical miles are roughly the same as a standard mile but I
only heard that. I also cite Job and the measuring of the earth.
My belief is that the earth beyond the Antarctic Circle goes on
for possibly tens of thousands of miles in all directions.
I believe the earth cannot be measured and that we "found out"
the earth is not what we are taught in 1946 with the V2 rocket
and images. I think most rocket launches and "missions" are
trying to collect images and data of the earth and cosmos. They
certainly were not going to announce that the globe model is
incorrect.
Nobody will ever know because nobody can explore beyond the ice
wall, but rest assured that the military of several nations has
attempted to understand and grasp the reality of what we live
in.
#Post#: 15755--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: sneakydove
Date: July 31, 2020, 10:14 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Not yet as I agree with everything you posted. I heard that
nautical miles are roughly the same as a standard mile but I
only heard that.
--- End Quote ---
From Wikipedia, which shouldn't be too compromised on this
particular subject:
--- Quote from: Wikipedia ---
> Historically, it was defined as one minute (1/60 of a degree)
of latitude along any line of longitude.
--- End Quote ---
These days a nautical mile is 1.15 miles statute. This robs it
of its relational meaning.
--- Quote ---
> I also cite Job and the measuring of the earth. My belief is
that the earth beyond the Antarctic Circle goes on for possibly
tens of thousands of miles in all directions.
--- End Quote ---
That's quite possible. Visual phenomena in the deep south
arctic probably look really odd as you near the dome wall.
There might well be an awful lot of area to cover before you get
there. Such a shame we can't just go visit.
--- Quote ---
> I believe the earth cannot be measured and that we "found out"
the earth is not what we are taught in 1946 with the V2 rocket
and images. I think most rocket launches and "missions" are
trying to collect images and data of the earth and cosmos. They
certainly were not going to announce that the globe model is
incorrect.
--- End Quote ---
No, they can't make an announcement. It goes against pretty
well every agenda. The illusion of countries being separate
entities? About as separate as football teams; they're still in
the same club or league. Evolution and space aliens? Can't let
that cat out of the bag, then the atheists might start reading
the Bible.
I agree the earth can't be measured. The predominant measuring
stick used is light, and (to borrow from John) they that are in
darkness comprehendeth it not.
--- Quote ---
> Nobody will ever know because nobody can explore beyond the
ice wall, but rest assured that the military of several nations
has attempted to understand and grasp the reality of what we
live in.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm sure they've tested it and framed aspects of it for our
consumption in the guise of ball-earthness. Satellites very
well might be fixed locations on the dome, for example. The
military will attempt to understand it only so far as it
satisfies their ends, IE for purposes of warfare. Imagine the
deceptions you can pull if you know there's a dome and nobody
else does? Project things in the sky maybe, like a giant
drive-in theater?
#Post#: 15764--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: August 1, 2020, 7:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: sneakydove link ---
>
> [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=19.msg15751#msg15751
date=1596247131]
> Not yet as I agree with everything you posted. I heard that
nautical miles are roughly the same as a standard mile but I
only heard that.
--- End Quote ---
From Wikipedia, which shouldn't be too compromised on this
particular subject:
--- Quote from: Wikipedia ---
> Historically, it was defined as one minute (1/60 of a degree)
of latitude along any line of longitude.
--- End Quote ---
These days a nautical mile is 1.15 miles statute. This robs it
of its relational meaning.
--- Quote ---
> I also cite Job and the measuring of the earth. My belief is
that the earth beyond the Antarctic Circle goes on for possibly
tens of thousands of miles in all directions.
--- End Quote ---
That's quite possible. Visual phenomena in the deep south
arctic probably look really odd as you near the dome wall.
There might well be an awful lot of area to cover before you get
there. Such a shame we can't just go visit.
--- Quote ---
> I believe the earth cannot be measured and that we "found out"
the earth is not what we are taught in 1946 with the V2 rocket
and images. I think most rocket launches and "missions" are
trying to collect images and data of the earth and cosmos. They
certainly were not going to announce that the globe model is
incorrect.
--- End Quote ---
No, they can't make an announcement. It goes against pretty
well every agenda. The illusion of countries being separate
entities? About as separate as football teams; they're still in
the same club or league. Evolution and space aliens? Can't let
that cat out of the bag, then the atheists might start reading
the Bible.
I agree the earth can't be measured. The predominant measuring
stick used is light, and (to borrow from John) they that are in
darkness comprehendeth it not.
--- Quote ---
> Nobody will ever know because nobody can explore beyond the
ice wall, but rest assured that the military of several nations
has attempted to understand and grasp the reality of what we
live in.
>
--- End Quote ---
I'm sure they've tested it and framed aspects of it for our
consumption in the guise of ball-earthness. Satellites very
well might be fixed locations on the dome, for example. The
military will attempt to understand it only so far as it
satisfies their ends, IE for purposes of warfare. Imagine the
deceptions you can pull if you know there's a dome and nobody
else does? Project things in the sky maybe, like a giant
drive-in theater?
[/quote]I've posted a longer explanation in other threads and
the Biblical Flat Earth thread is my main FE thread, but I think
the land is frozen and unreachable by any mode of
transportation. I don't think anyone can reach the "edge" or the
dome wall, if you will.
The distances and temperatures combined with communication
problems and supply problems makes extended travel literally
impossible. It would be necessary to build communication towers,
landing strips and refueling stations along with perhaps dozens
of other factors relating to things that can't be done.
The total size and scope of the earth plane is immeasurable and
it does not move, as established many times in scripture. I
think the land mass eventually forms a square shape, giving us
the Four Corners of the Earth and the four angels as depicted on
this image I will post below.
HTML https://static.wixstatic.com/media/36dd1a_d83b5bb19da14f2d8d07bde0603f9b1c~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_958,h_958,al_c,q_85/36dd1a_d83b5bb19da14f2d8d07bde0603f9b1c~mv2.webp
#Post#: 15768--------------------------------------------------
Re: Can You Debunk Flat Earth?
DIR By: sneakydove
Date: August 1, 2020, 7:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
That is VERY interesting!
I seem to recall postage stamps that depicted a map of the world
were issued in the USA. It could have been any time between the
late 1940s and mid 1980s. On those map stamps, the antarctic
was HYUUUGE. (It might have been a poster published by the post
office and not an actual stamp. These are some foggy memories
I'm working with here.)
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