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#Post#: 1256--------------------------------------------------
The Wise Men
By: Olde Tymer Date: September 29, 2018, 11:12 pm
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[font=arial].
● Matt 2:1 . . Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of
Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise
men from the east to Jerusalem.
The koiné Greek word for these particular wise men is magos
(mag'-os) which roughly indicates scientists; and judging by
their interest in the cosmos; I'd say they were astrologers.
Back then, science was in its infancy and there was not yet a
distinct division between astrologers and astronomers like there
is now, so we probably shouldn't tag those guys as mystics.
● Matt 2:2 . . Saying: where is he that is born King of
the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to
worship him.
Now before we assume that these guys were all ethnic Persians we
need to be aware that the Jews were spread out all over the
world at this time; for example on the day of Pentecost:
● Acts 2:5-11 . . Now there were staying in Jerusalem
God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven. A crowd came
together in bewilderment, because each one heard [the disciples]
speaking in his own language. Utterly amazed, they asked: Are
not all these men who are speaking Galileans? Then how is it
that each of us hears them in his own native language?
Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea
and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt
and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both
Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs-we hear them
declaring the wonders of God in our own tongues!
I think it's pretty safe to assume that ethnic Persians would
not be interested in the Jews' religion so I posit that the wise
guys were all Jewish men; and thus knowledgeable of the
prophecies predicting a very important successor to David's
throne.
So; how did those Jewish men know to follow that star? Well;
first off we have to realize that their star wasn't a celestial
object because it was low enough in the sky to direct people to
the exact house were baby Jesus was lodged (Matt 2:9). In other
words: their star was an apparition.
But how did they know their star was related to a newborn king?
Well; according to Matt 2:12, they were in contact with God. In
other words: the men weren't acting on their own initiative:
they were on a mission; directed and supervised by divine
oversight.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1273--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Wise Men
By: Olde Tymer Date: September 30, 2018, 12:50 pm
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[font=arial].
● Matt 2:3-4 . . And when Herod the king heard it, he was
troubled, and all Jerusalem with him. And gathering together all
the chief priests and scribes of the people, he began to inquire
of them where the Christ was to be born.
Matthew, not Herod, calls Jesus the Christ. The Greek word
basically refers to anointing; which is how Jewish kings were
installed back in the Old Testament; for example David. (1Sam
16:1-13)
Right about here I get a bit curious. Why would Herod think the
king that the wise men sought was predicted in the Bible? It
seems to me that in order for Herod to be thinking that way,
he'd have to be aware of Daniel's famous seventy-week prophecy.
(Dan 9:24-27)
And why would the chief priests and scribes think that way too?
Well; they being Old Testament experts were for sure aware of
Daniel's prophecy and I'll just bet that they and their
forbearers had been keeping track of Daniel's timeline all along
and thus probably not all that surprised when rumors of a
Messiah started cropping up in their day.
Well; anyway, Herod asked the wrong question. According to Matt
2:2, baby Jesus was already born; in fact, born even before the
wise men left their country. So then, knowing where Israel's new
king was to be born was a long shot that he'd still be there.
The question Herod should have asked is: Where might the boy be
now?
FYI: Jesus' hometown Nazareth was predicted by the prophets
(Matt 2:23), but not recorded by the prophets. That's curious;
but does alert us to the fact that the prophets didn't put
everything down in writing.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1318--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Wise Men
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 1, 2018, 10:07 am
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[font=arial].
After an audience with Herod, the wise men departed for
Bethlehem; but I don't think they made it because their star
reappeared to direct them.
● Matt 2:9 . . After they had heard the king, they went on
their way, and the star they had seen in the east went ahead of
them.
It was their understanding that the king they sought was already
born even before they left home to seek him.
● Matt 2:2 . . Where is the one who has been born king of
the Jews? We saw his star in the east.
There's no telling how much time had gone by before the star
came to them in the east.
And then it stood right over the very place where young Jesus
was lodged.
● Matt 2:9 . . It stopped over the place where the child
was.
The place was a house rather than a stable.
● Matt 2:11a . . On coming to the house
The men didn't journey to Israel via motorized conveyances. Thy
likely traveled via beasts. I don't know how long it took them
to get to Jerusalem from their home towns but I strongly suspect
that it was long enough for Joseph to take his family back home
to Nazareth.
Also, Jesus was very likely no longer an infant; rather, older
by the time they arrived.
● Matt 2:11b . . They saw the child with his mother
The Greek word for "child" is somewhat ambiguous. It can refer
to any underage kid from infancy to adolescence.
I won't hazard a guess as to Jesus' age by the time the men
arrived to see him, but I'm thinking he was at least no longer
in a bassinet.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1397--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Wise Men
By: Olde Tymer Date: October 3, 2018, 3:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=arial].
● Matt 2:11c . . and fell down, and worshipped him:
The koiné Greek word for "worship" is proskuneo
(pros-koo-neh'-o). It's kind of a funny word because it
basically pictures a dog licking its master's hand; i.e. homage,
reverence, and/or adoration; viz: definitely subordination.
Now if these guys knew their stuff-- I think we can safely
assume so --then they didn't come all the way from the east
seeking another run-of-the-mill king of the Davidic dynasty,
rather; a very special potentate that would one day rule not
just the land of Israel; but the entire planet-- everything and
everybody on it.
● Dan 7:13-14 . . In my vision at night I looked, and
there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the
clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was
escorted into His presence.
. . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all
peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped him. His
dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and
his kingdom is the one that will never be destroyed.
Well; let the record show that the wise men were the very first
to begin fulfilling that prophecy's prediction that "all
peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped him"
● Matt 2:11-12 . .Then they opened their treasures and
presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.
Those were not only appropriate gifts for monarchs of that day,
but also valuable commodities that Joseph could put to use in
financing his family's pending sojourn in Egypt.
It would've been fun if Matthew had told us the weight of the
gold so we could put a dollar figure on it according to today's
precious metals.
● Matt 2:11-12 . . And having been warned in a dream not
to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another
route.
That was a safety measure to prevent Herod from knowing where to
find the lad because rulers in that day were typically
Machiavellian-- they didn't just crush potential threats to
their power; they utterly annihilated it; and as subsequent
events demonstrate, ol' Herod had neither conscience nor concern
for child welfare.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1600--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Wise Men
By: guest8 Date: October 14, 2018, 12:13 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=145.msg1397#msg1397
date=1538598129]
[font=verdana].
● Matt 2:11c . . and fell down, and worshipped him:
The koiné Greek word for "worship" is proskuneo
(pros-koo-neh'-o). It's kind of a funny word because it
basically pictures a dog licking its master's hand; i.e. homage,
reverence, and/or adoration; viz: definitely subordination.
Now if these guys knew their stuff-- I think we can safely
assume so --then they didn't come all the way from the east
seeking another run-of-the-mill king of the Davidic dynasty,
rather; a very special potentate that would one day rule not
just the land of Israel; but the entire planet-- everything and
everybody on it.
● Dan 7:13-14 . . In my vision at night I looked, and
there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the
clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was
escorted into His presence.
. . . He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all
peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped him. His
dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and
his kingdom is the one that will never be destroyed.
Well; let the record show that the wise men were the very first
to begin fulfilling that prophecy's prediction that "all
peoples, nations and men of every language worshipped him"
● Matt 2:11-12 . .Then they opened their treasures and
presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.
Those were not only appropriate gifts for monarchs of that day,
but also valuable commodities that Joseph could put to use in
financing his family's pending sojourn in Egypt.
It would've been fun if Matthew had told us the weight of the
gold so we could put a dollar figure on it according to today's
precious metals.
● Matt 2:11-12 . . And having been warned in a dream not
to go back to Herod, they returned to their country by another
route.
That was a safety measure to prevent Herod from knowing where to
find the lad because rulers in that day were typically
Machiavellian-- they didn't just crush potential threats to
their power; they utterly annihilated it; and as subsequent
events demonstrate, ol' Herod had neither conscience nor concern
for child welfare.
_[/font]
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]If you please Olde Tymer, I would like to add
something to your excellent post.
"Matt 2:11-12 . .Then they opened their treasures and presented
him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh. "
As throughout the Bible, different objects tells a story and
prophesis all by themselves.
The Gifts these Wise men from the east (Balthasar, King of
Arabia; Melchior, King of Persia; and Gasper, King of India)
gave to our Lord Jesus Christ was:
GOLD: A precious metal that spoke of Royalty, Kingship for a
King.
Incense: The Prayers of Saints (Rev.4). Incense was also used in
the temple.
Myrrh: a product of a plant that was used in embalmment of the
dead.
All of these gifts were allusions to the trials the Baby Jesus
would endure in the coming years.
Prophecies hidden, fulfilled and unfulfilled.
Thank you Olde Tymer for an excellent post.
Blade
[/shadow]
#Post#: 36026--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Wise Men
By: patrick jane Date: December 5, 2021, 12:27 am
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Who Were the Magi
1 hour 15 minutes
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=irWL-jHE-Tw&list=WL&index=18
The Gospel of Matthew tells us that "magi" from the East brought
gifts to the infant Jesus following a mysterious star. Western
Christianity commemorates this event with the feast of Epiphany,
on January 6. What do we know about these wise men? Where did
they come? Were they kings or Zoroastrian priests? Is there any
evidence of a new star? We'll look at all these and other
questions to reveal the meaning of this story from a
mythological and theological view point.
#Post#: 39909--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Wise Men
By: patrick jane Date: June 1, 2022, 11:53 pm
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Who Was King Herod?
According to the gospels, Jesus of Nazareth was born during the
reign of Herod the Great, King of Judea. Herod was a great
builder who reconstructed the Jerusalem Temple where Jesus
taught as well as fortresses including Masada. Who was Herod and
how did he acquire his throne? John Hamer of Toronto Centre
Place will look at the history Herodian dynasty and its
predecessor, the Hasmoneans and their short-lived, independent
Jewish kingdom, placing them into the context of the larger
Hellenistic and Roman worlds.
1 hour 19 minutes
HTML https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUe_eQUhV1o
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