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DIR Return to: Christian Theology
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#Post#: 1120--------------------------------------------------
The Cosmos
By: Olde Tymer Date: September 24, 2018, 1:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=arial].
● Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying through
the sky, carrying the everlasting gospel to preach to the people
who dwell on the earth-- to every nation, tribe, language, and
people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to Him! For the time
has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who made heaven
and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!
Although most Christians readily agree that the cosmos is the
result of intelligent design; they're divided over the very
first two verses of Genesis which read like this:
1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. 2. And
the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the
face of the deep.
Some sincerely believe the second verse indicates that the
cosmos pre-existed its current form. In other words: a great
cataclysm wrecked the original Earth so that God had to
reconstruct it. Thus; we today supposedly live on a renovated
Earth. This posit is the so-called Gap Theory; which is
explained pretty well on Wikipedia.
Others, just as sincere, believe that the six days of creation
shouldn't be taken as 24-hour events; rather, as epochs of
indeterminate length. This posit is based upon Genesis 2:4,
which reads like this:
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when
they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and
heaven."
The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is
the very same word for each of the six days of God's creation
labors. Since yowm in Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time
obviously much longer than 24 hours; it justifies suggesting
that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24 hours
too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to
interpret sometimes.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1121--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: guest24 Date: September 24, 2018, 1:53 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
It seems to me that Genesis 1:13-19 might be a bit of a problem
(not insurmountable) for the distinguished length of a day in
that on day 3 God creates a way to measure time. IOW's I could
easily see an unknown time for days 1-3 but it seems to me that
by day 3, or at least the end of day 3 time becomes a much more
tangible thing from the strict standpoint of Gen. as per a
beginnings monologue
Just a thought for what it's worth
#Post#: 1123--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: patrick jane Date: September 24, 2018, 6:33 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=135.msg1120#msg1120
date=1537813887]
[font=verdana].
● Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel flying through
the sky, carrying the everlasting gospel to preach to the people
who dwell on the earth-- to every nation, tribe, language, and
people. Fear God! he shouted. Give glory to Him! For the time
has come when He will sit as judge. Worship Him who made heaven
and earth, the sea, and all the springs of water!
Although most Christians readily agree that the cosmos is the
result of intelligent design; they're divided over the very
first two verses of Genesis which read like this:
1. In the beginning God created the Heaven and the earth. 2. And
the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the
face of the deep.
Some sincerely believe the second verse indicates that the
cosmos pre-existed its current form. In other words: a great
cataclysm wrecked the original Earth so that God had to
reconstruct it. Thus; we today supposedly live on a renovated
Earth. This posit is the so-called Gap Theory; which is
explained pretty well on Wikipedia.
Others, just as sincere, believe that the six days of creation
shouldn't be taken as 24-hour events; rather, as epochs of
indeterminate length. This posit is based upon Genesis 2:4,
which reads like this:
"These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when
they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and
heaven."
The Hebrew word for "day" in that verse is yowm (yome) which is
the very same word for each of the six days of God's creation
labors. Since yowm in Gen 2:4 refers to a period of time
obviously much longer than 24 hours; it justifies suggesting
that each of the six Days of creation were longer than 24 hours
too. In other words: yowm is ambiguous and not all that easy to
interpret sometimes.
_[/font]
[/quote]The Bible is true and accurate in its description of
creation, the earth, sun, moon and stars etc. I see many
attempts to reconcile the scriptures to include the heliocentric
model thereby making possible the Beg Bang, evolution and
endless space. That's exactly what satan would use to attack
creation and the creator. Billions have gone to the grave not
believing in God but rather evolution, aliens and trillions upon
trillions of planets and stars. Billions die believing that we
can travel the stars and make a home outside of earth.
To get back to the "day" the "yowm" I can't say. I know there
was light before the sun and moon to divide the night and day.
The moon, sun and stars were not created until day 4 yet there
was light before that. Then again at the end of the Bible, there
will be no sun or moon but light will be there. To posit that a
day could be an indeterminate amount of time is playing fast and
loose with what saith the scriptures.
#Post#: 1129--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: Olde Tymer Date: September 25, 2018, 8:58 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=arial].
Well; for sure we have to account for some time somewhere, beau
coup time-- either with the gap theory or the epoch theory --in
order to account for the 4.5 billion-year age of the earth, and
factor in the various eras, e.g. Triassic, Jurassic, Mesozoic,
Cenozoic, and Cretaceous, etc, plus the ice ages and the mass
extinction events.
There are some serious geological issues too. For example: the
discovery of fossilized sea lilies near the summit of Mt Everest
proves that the Himalayan land mass hasn't always been
mountainous; but at one time was the floor of an ancient sea
bed. This is confirmed by the "yellow band" below Everest's
summit consisting of limestone: a type of rock made from calcite
sediments containing the skeletal remains of countless trillions
of organisms who lived, not on dry land, but in an ocean.
Everest and its yellow band got up high like that by means of
tectonic plate buckling and/or subduction; which are very slow
processes requiring thousands of years.
And there are hominid issues. For example: in 1992, Tim White of
the University of California at Berkeley, discovered the
fossilized remains of a pre h.sapiens female (nicknamed Ardi) in
Ethiopia's Afar Rift who lived 4.4 million years ago. His
forty-seven member team, over a period of 17 years, discovered
portions of the remains of thirty-seven more individuals from
the same era.
And then there's the dinosaur issue. Adam and all the land
faring animals were created on the sixth day. On no other day
did God create land faring animals.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1131--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: patrick jane Date: September 25, 2018, 10:28 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Well, there's the difference because I believein a young earth,
no more that 10,000 to 12,000 years old and maybe only 6,000
years old. Carbon dating is not accurate and the Bible describes
a young earth not a billions year old earth. So you think God
created the heavens and the earth 10 billion years after he
created the rest of "outer space"?
#Post#: 1134--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: Olde Tymer Date: September 25, 2018, 1:23 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=135.msg1131#msg1131
date=1537889328]So you think God created the heavens and the
earth 10 billion years after he created the rest of "outer
space"?[/quote]
[font=arial]● Gen 1:1 . . In the beginning God created the
Heaven and the Earth.
I take "Heaven" to mean the colossal void out there. i.e. outer
space.
So then, chronologically, the void came first and then
afterwards the Earth, the Sun, the Moon and the Stars; which
logically makes the Earth younger than the void.
Now, in my estimation, the age of the void is a non issue. A
very serious question is the age of the Sun, the Moon, and the
Stars because chronologically the Earth's formation was
completed before any of those other celestial objects were
completed and put in place.
_[/font]
#Post#: 1137--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: guest8 Date: September 25, 2018, 7:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=135.msg1134#msg1134
date=1537899808]
.
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=135.msg1131#msg1131
date=1537889328]So you think God created the heavens and the
earth 10 billion years after he created the rest of "outer
space"?[/quote]
[font=verdana][color=red]● Gen 1:1 . . In the beginning
God created the Heaven and the Earth.
It take "Heaven" to mean the colossal void out there. i.e. outer
space.
So then, chronologically, the void came first and then
afterwards the Earth, the Sun, the Moon and the Stars; which
logically makes the Earth younger than the void.
Now, in my estimation, the age of the void is a non issue. A
very serious question is the age of the Sun, the Moon, and the
Stars because chronologically the Earth's formation was
completed before any of those other celestial objects were
completed and put in place.
_[/font]
[/quote]
[shadow=Blue,left]Sometime ago, I was watching Star-Trek
Generations. Don't laugh, it was good entertainment but each
episode put forth a vision of some future dream of the
writer(s). One of them involved the Holodeck (we are close to
having them now). The episode ended with a couple being placed
in a starship so they could travel the universe. Unbeknownst to
them, the ship they were on was part of a Holodeck program. A
digital simulation.
Now, I ask... Can we not be in a digital simulation here on
earth. We have a Limit to the Universe (largest) and a Limit to
the smallest (Quantum Physics). As God said to Himself when He
was considering the tower of Babel and the problems caused by
the ONE language in Gen 11:6[/shadow] "And the LORD said,
Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and
this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from
them, which they have imagined to do."
[shadow=blue,left]The writers were dreaming when they wrote this
episode of Star-Trek and so was mankind when He was building the
tower of Babel.
As the couple on that starship was within the holodeck; as we
are within a digital simulation controlled by GOD.[/shadow]
[shadow=Blue,left]Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 1138--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: guest2 Date: September 25, 2018, 8:44 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=135.msg1131#msg1131
date=1537889328]
Well, there's the difference because I believein a young earth,
no more that 10,000 to 12,000 years old and maybe only 6,000
years old. Carbon dating is not accurate and the Bible describes
a young earth not a billions year old earth. So you think God
created the heavens and the earth 10 billion years after he
created the rest of "outer space"?
[/quote]
Nah.
The young earth creationists still believe in a spinning ball.
Clete over on Tol actually posted a video from them.
I pissed him off so bad, all he could say was, you're stupid go
away.
:D
#Post#: 1158--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: Scripter Date: September 26, 2018, 8:01 am
---------------------------------------------------------
You can't mock 'a spinning ball' and say gravity doesn't exist
at the same time. You have to resolve whether you believe
gravity (or some force that prevents the centripetal release of
objects from earth) is 'miraculous' like feeding 5000 people
fish and bread out of nowhere, or what.
The people that represent FE here just go 'it doesn't exist'
which the most unintelligent answer in the range of things that
could be given.
Dr. DeYoung (Grace, Winona, IN), astrophysics, says all
uniformitarians expected galaxies to be concentric rings or
'tangles' of paths of individual stars when first viewed. In
MYA (millions of years ago) theory, they should have 'spun'
several times. Instead, all galaxies are slightly S shaped.
#Post#: 1161--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Cosmos
By: Olde Tymer Date: September 26, 2018, 8:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[font=arial].
● Gen 1:3 . . Then God said "Let there be light" and there
was light.
It's commonly asserted that seeing as how the Sun, the Moon, and
the Stars weren't created until the fourth day, then this
particular light had to be God's presence; but according to Gen
1:4, God had never seen this light before. And besides,
according to 1Tim 6:16, God, as illumination, isn't visible.
Space was at time thought to contain absolutely nothing until
radio astronomers discovered something called the cosmic
microwave background. In a nutshell: CMB fills the universe with
light that apparently radiates from no detectable source. The
popular notion is that CMB is energy left over from the Big
Bang; it's so-called echo.
2Cor 4:6 verifies that light wasn't introduced into the cosmos
from outside in order to dispel the darkness and brighten things
up a bit; but rather, it radiated out of the cosmos from
inside-- from itself --indicating that the cosmos was created to
be self-illuminating by means of the various interactions of the
matter that God made for it; including, but not limited to, the
Higgs Boson.
You know it's curious to me that most Christians have no trouble
readily conceding that everything else in the first chapter of
Genesis is natural, e.g. the cosmos, the earth, the atmosphere,
water, dry land, the Sun, the Moon, the stars, aqua life, winged
life, terra life, flora life, and human life.
But when it comes to light they choke; finding it impossible
within themselves to believe that Genesis just might be
consistent in its description of the creative process. I mean,
if all those other things are natural, why wouldn't the cosmos'
light be natural too? In point of fact, the creation of light
entails a whole lot more than just illumination. Light is the
centerpiece of the laws of physics; without which the Earth
would've certainly remained formless and void.
_[/font]
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