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#Post#: 2727--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 10, 2018, 9:31 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be anyone who does not
confirm the words of this law by doing them.
One thing that must be emphasized is that the curse is
irrevocable; so it's very important to come to grips with it;
and the sooner the better.
● Matt 5:18 . . For assuredly, I say to you: till heaven
and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle will by any means
pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
In other words: whoever deserves that curse is absolutely
certain to get it.
In point of fact, Deut 27:26 is grammatically present tense
rather than future, indicating that the curse is instant-- no
delay and no waiting period. i.e. it's already on the books
hanging over people's heads like a guillotine just waiting for
an officer to give the executioner a signal to let go the rope
keeping the blade in check.
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 77 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 4,690,532 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2734--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: guest8 Date: December 10, 2018, 8:16 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2727#msg2727
date=1544455882]
.
[font=arial]● Deut 27:26 . . Cursed be anyone who does not
confirm the words of this law by doing them.
One thing that must be emphasized is that the curse is
irrevocable; so it's very important to come to grips with it;
and the sooner the better.
● Matt 5:18 . . For assuredly, I say to you: till heaven
and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle will by any means
pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
In other words: whoever deserves that curse is absolutely
certain to get it.
In point of fact, Deut 27:26 is grammatically present tense
rather than future, indicating that the curse is instant-- no
delay and no waiting period. i.e. it's already on the books
hanging over people's heads like a guillotine just waiting for
an officer to give the executioner a signal to let go the rope
keeping the blade in check.
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 77 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 4,690,532 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
[/quote]
Fortunately for us, Olde Tymer, we during this dispensation of
Grace are not under the "Law of Moses".
Blade
#Post#: 2758--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 12, 2018, 10:19 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]POSIT: The Old Testament's God abhors human
sacrifices. Therefore, He couldn't possibly approve of the New
Testament's cross. For example: Jer 32:33-35 and Deut 12:31.
RESPONSE: The Old Testament prohibitions related to human
sacrifices all pertain to underage children rather than
consenting adults, e.g. Lev 18:21, Lev 20:2-5, Deut 12:31, Deut
18:10, cf. 2Kgs 16:3, 2Kgs 17:31, 2Kgs 23:10, 2Kgs 21:6, Ps
106:34, Ezk 20:31, Ezk 23:37, Jer 7:31, Jer 19:4, and Jer 32:35.
The Old Testament predicted human sacrifice; with God's full
approval and participation no less.
● Isa 53:6 . . The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us
all.
● Isa 53:10 . . It was The Lord's will to crush him and
cause him to suffer . . .The Lord makes his life a guilt
offering.
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 79 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 4,812,364 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2796--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 14, 2018, 7:51 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]Q: Can you cite an Old Testament example where God
approved human sacrifice?
A: Abraham lived a pretty good number of years before Israel's
covenanted law was instituted. Therefore, he wasn't obligated to
comply with it because biblical law doesn't have ex post facto
jurisdiction; viz: it isn't retroactive. (Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15,
Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17)
So then, Abraham was in a position to offer a human sacrifice
without incurring guilt; which he did.
● Gen 22:1-2 . . Now it came about after these things,
that God tested Abraham, and said to him: Abraham! And he said:
Here I am. And He said: Take now your son, your only son, whom
you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him
there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I
will tell you.
Did Abraham slay Isaac? No, but did Abraham offer Isaac? Yes.
● Gen 22:9 . .Then they came to the place of which God had
told him. And Abraham built an altar there and placed the wood
in order; and he bound Isaac his son and laid him on the altar,
upon the wood.
You see, once a gift dedicated to God is placed on an altar,
it's a done deal-- whether the offering is dead or alive makes
no difference. In point of fact, the letter to Hebrews credits
Abraham with offering his son in obedience to God's command.
● Heb 11:17 . . By faith Abraham, when he was tested,
offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered
up his only begotten son
Had God disapproved human sacrifice, He would've stopped Abraham
before Isaac was laid on the altar.
So then, the next question is: was Isaac a consenting adult?
Well; according to Gen 22:6-7, Isaac was old enough to shoulder
a load of wood; so he wasn't a little boy like so many people
like to think he was. Plus, he was mature enough to understand
the particulars of a burnt offering.
If the narrative's chronology is tight, then the next event in
Isaac's life was the death of his mother at 127 (Gen 23:1-2).
She was 90 when Isaac was born (Gen 17:17) making him quite
possibly around 37 at the time of the Akedah.
Another Old Testament example is located in the 53rd chapter of
Isaiah.
NOTE: According to Gen 18:23-33, Abraham wasn't above
challenging God's sense of right and wrong. Had the old boy
seriously believed that offering his son Isaac as a burnt
offering was wrong, he would've said something; in point of
fact, he had three days to think about it. (Gen 22:4)
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 81 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 4,934,196 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2802--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: guest8 Date: December 14, 2018, 7:31 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2796#msg2796
date=1544795467]
.
[font=arial]Q: Can you cite an Old Testament example where God
approved human sacrifice?
A: Abraham lived a pretty good number of years before Israel's
covenanted law was instituted. Therefore, he wasn't obligated to
comply with it because biblical law doesn't have ex post facto
jurisdiction; viz: it isn't retroactive. (Deut 5:2-4, Rom 4:15,
Rom 5:13, and Gal 3:17)
So then, Abraham was in a position to offer a human sacrifice
without incurring guilt; which he did.
● Gen 22:1-2 . . Now it came about after these things,
that God tested Abraham, and said to him: Abraham! And he said:
Here I am. And He said: Take now your son, your only son, whom
you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah; and offer him
there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains of which I
will tell you.
Did Abraham slay Isaac? No, but did Abraham offer Isaac? Yes.
● Gen 22:9 . .Then they came to the place of which God had
told him. And Abraham built an altar there and placed the wood
in order; and he bound Isaac his son and laid him on the altar,
upon the wood.
You see, once a gift dedicated to God is placed on an altar,
it's a done deal-- whether the offering is dead or alive makes
no difference. In point of fact, the letter to Hebrews credits
Abraham with offering his son in obedience to God's command.
● Heb 11:17 . . By faith Abraham, when he was tested,
offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered
up his only begotten son
Had God disapproved human sacrifice, He would've stopped Abraham
before Isaac was laid on the altar.
So then, the next question is: was Isaac a consenting adult?
Well; according to Gen 22:6-7, Isaac was old enough to shoulder
a load of wood; so he wasn't a little boy like so many people
like to think he was. Plus, he was mature enough to understand
the particulars of a burnt offering.
If the narrative's chronology is tight, then the next event in
Isaac's life was the death of his mother at 127 (Gen 23:1-2).
She was 90 when Isaac was born (Gen 17:17) making him quite
possibly around 37 at the time of the Akedah.
Another Old Testament example is located in the 53rd chapter of
Isaiah.
NOTE: According to Gen 18:23-33, Abraham wasn't above
challenging God's sense of right and wrong. Had the old boy
seriously believed that offering his son Isaac as a burnt
offering was wrong, he would've said something; in point of
fact, he had three days to think about it. (Gen 22:4)
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 81 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 4,934,196 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]
I think there was something different going on here.
God had already told Abraham that Isaac would be the one who all
the nations came from. Now, He tells him to sacrifice Him prior
to his promise.... This simply was a way for GOD to test Abraham
faith in HIM. One Abraham's side, He knew that if He killed
Isaac, then God would have to resurrect him if His Promise was
to be keep. Abraham loved and had faith in GOD. This is the
reason why He was ready to sacrifice His son so readily without
argument.
Blade[/shadow]
#Post#: 2812--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 16, 2018, 9:08 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]● Ex 20:5 . . I, the Lord your God, am a
jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the
children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who
hate Me.
Q: How is that fair? holding children responsible for what their
parents do?
A: Ex 20:5-- along with Ex 34:7, Num 14:18, and Deut 5:9 --is
often construed to mean that children are held responsible for
their parents' sins; but that isn't it. What we're looking at
here is collateral damage. It is apparently God's prerogative to
get back at people by going after their posterity and/or the
people they govern.
There's a horrific example of collateral damage located at Num
16:25-34.
Another is the Flood. No doubt quite a few underage children
drowned in that event due to their parents' decadence.
The same happened to the children in Sodom and Gomorrah.
Ham's punishment for humiliating his father Noah was a curse
upon his son Canaan.
A hundred and twenty thousand youngsters, along with livestock,
would've perished in Nineveh had not the adults responded
favorably to Jonah's preaching.
During Moses' face-off with Pharaoh, God moved against the man's
firstborn son along with all those of his subjects.
There are times when God chooses to judge people by going after
not only themselves; but also the things that pertain to them;
including, but not limited to, their progeny. I don't quite
understand the logic of that kind of justice; but then again: I
don't try; I just go along with it; primarily because it's
futile to find fault with God-- it's a foregone conclusion that
even if He's in the wrong; you'll come out the loser.
● Isa 45:9 . . Destruction is certain for those who argue
with their creator. Does a clay pot ever argue with its maker?
Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying: Stop,
you are doing it wrong! Does the pot exclaim: How clumsy can you
be!
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 83 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 5,056,028 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2832--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: guest8 Date: December 17, 2018, 6:55 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2812#msg2812
date=1544972882]
.
[font=arial]● Ex 20:5 . . I, the Lord your God, am a
jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the
children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who
hate Me.
Q: How is that fair? holding children responsible for what their
parents do?
A: Ex 20:5-- along with Ex 34:7, Num 14:18, and Deut 5:9 --is
often construed to mean that children are held responsible for
their parents' sins; but that isn't it. What we're looking at
here is collateral damage. It is apparently God's prerogative to
get back at people by going after their posterity and/or the
people they govern.
There's a horrific example of collateral damage located at Num
16:25-34.
Another is the Flood. No doubt quite a few underage children
drowned in that event due to their parents' decadence.
The same happened to the children in Sodom and Gomorrah.
Ham's punishment for humiliating his father Noah was a curse
upon his son Canaan.
A hundred and twenty thousand youngsters, along with livestock,
would've perished in Nineveh had not the adults responded
favorably to Jonah's preaching.
During Moses' face-off with Pharaoh, God moved against the man's
firstborn son along with all those of his subjects.
There are times when God chooses to judge people by going after
not only themselves; but also the things that pertain to them;
including, but not limited to, their progeny. I don't quite
understand the logic of that kind of justice; but then again: I
don't try; I just go along with it; primarily because it's
futile to find fault with God-- it's a foregone conclusion that
even if He's in the wrong; you'll come out the loser.
● Isa 45:9 . . Destruction is certain for those who argue
with their creator. Does a clay pot ever argue with its maker?
Does the clay dispute with the one who shapes it, saying: Stop,
you are doing it wrong! Does the pot exclaim: How clumsy can you
be!
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 83 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 5,056,028 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]Of course you did...Did WHAT? Misread
it,,,,,,"you said .."on the third and the fourth generations of
those who hate Me.
try reading it literally!
Blade
[/shadow]
#Post#: 2839--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 18, 2018, 7:09 am
---------------------------------------------------------
.
[font=arial]Q: Doesn't Acts 2:24-33 say Christ went to hell at
his death?
A: The koiné Greek word for "hell" in that passage of the KJV is
haides [haw'-dace) a.k.a. hades, which is an ambiguous word for
the netherworld-- an afterlife sphere where everybody goes when
they pass on; both the good and the bad and the young and the
old. Although haides can include fiery suffering in the
afterlife (e.g. Luke 16:23) it doesn't always mean that because
the netherworld location to which Christ departed was pleasant.
● Luke 23:39-43 . . One of the criminals hanging beside
him scoffed: So you're the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving
yourself-- and us, too, while you're at it! But the other
criminal protested: Aren't you afraid of God? Not even when
you're dying? We deserve to die for our evil deeds, but this man
hasn't done anything wrong. Then he said: Jesus, remember me
when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied: I assure
you; today you will be with me in paradise.
The koiné Greek word for "paradise" is paradeisos
(par-ad'-i-sos) which means: a park; defined as: 1) a tract of
land that often includes lawns, woodland, and pasture attached
to a country house and is used as a game preserve and for
recreation, and/or 2) a piece of ground in or near a city or
town kept for ornament and recreation, and/or 3) an area
maintained in its natural state as a public property.
Q: If Jesus went to paradise on the day of his death, then why
did he tell Mary Magdalene three days later at John 20:17 that
he had not yet ascended to his Father?
A: Paradise is structured somewhat like the Pacific Crest Trail
(a.k.a. PCT) which traverses the north/south length of three
states-- California, Oregon, and Washington. No matter which of
the three states you might encounter trekkers at any given
moment-- whether south in Campo San Diego, or crossing the
Bridge Of The Gods in Cascade Locks Oregon, or Snoqualmie Pass
Washington --they're all on the very same PCT.
Paradise is sort of like that. There's a section underground
(Matt 12:40, Luke 16:19-31) another in a celestial region called
the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4) and yet another section located
up in God's neck of the woods. (Rev 2:7)
According to Matt 12:40, John 20:17, and Acts 2:24-32; Christ
didn't go up during his demise, rather, he went down. I'm
guessing the section of paradise to which he and the other guy
departed was the very same one where Abraham and Lazarus were
situated in the 16th chapter of Luke.
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 85 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 5,177,860 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
#Post#: 2871--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: guest8 Date: December 19, 2018, 9:36 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2839#msg2839
date=1545138567]
.
[font=arial]Q: Doesn't Acts 2:24-33 say Christ went to hell at
his death?
A: The koiné Greek word for "hell" in that passage of the KJV is
haides [haw'-dace) a.k.a. hades, which is an ambiguous word for
the netherworld-- an afterlife sphere where everybody goes when
they pass on; both the good and the bad and the young and the
old. Although haides can include fiery suffering in the
afterlife (e.g. Luke 16:23) it doesn't always mean that because
the netherworld location to which Christ departed was pleasant.
[/QUOTE]
[shadow=blue,left] You are reading about the Hades from Greek
methology and I will give you GOD's WORD about HELL...Luk 16:19
Here, Jesus' words tells us about hell through the rich-man.
[/shadow]
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2839#msg2839
date=1545138567]
● Luke 23:39-43 . . One of the criminals hanging beside
him scoffed: So you're the Messiah, are you? Prove it by saving
yourself-- and us, too, while you're at it! But the other
criminal protested: Aren't you afraid of God? Not even when
you're dying? We deserve to die for our evil deeds, but this man
hasn't done anything wrong. Then he said: Jesus, remember me
when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied: I assure
you; today you will be with me in paradise. [/QUOTE]
[shadow=blue,left]Again through Luke 23:39-43, we see that Jesus
is in Abram's Bosom. This is a holding place for those souls who
followed the law as best they could and having faith in God (the
father from the OT), This is what Jesus will call Paradise. When
He leaves in three days he will take the captives with him. This
will be the entire resurrection of those in Abram's Bosom to
Heaven named Paradise by JESUS and Paul. (2co 12-4, Rev 2-7)
[/shadow]
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2839#msg2839
date=1545138567]
The koiné Greek word for "paradise" is paradeisos
(par-ad'-i-sos) which means: a park; defined as: 1) a tract of
land that often includes lawns, woodland, and pasture attached
to a country house and is used as a game preserve and for
recreation, and/or 2) a piece of ground in or near a city or
town kept for ornament and recreation, and/or 3) an area
maintained in its natural state as a public property.[/QUOTE]
[shadow=blue,left] Strong's
G387-Paradeisos....(παράδει&
#963;ος
parádeisos, par-ad'-i-sos; of Oriental origin (compare H6508); a
park, i.e. (specially), an Eden (place of future happiness,
"paradise"):—paradise.)
Don't know where you got your def. but here is the Strong's
definition of the G387--Paradeisos. Is this not what Heaven is
suppose to be.
[/shadow]
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2839#msg2839
date=1545138567]
Q: If Jesus went to paradise on the day of his death, then why
did he tell Mary Magdalene three days later at John 20:17 that
he had not yet ascended to his Father?[/QUOTE]
[shadow=blue,left]When Jesus died, He went to Abram's Bosom.
While not a paradise, not a bad place. after three days, He had
not ascended to His Father although He did have his transfigured
body. We see this throughout the next 40 days he is on earth.
He appears within the upper room even thought the door is locked
and not by walking through the walls,but by simply appearing in
the middle of the room. Scientifically, this is one of the extra
dimensions this transfigured body has (time). (We will be like
that one day as we will see HIM as HE is.)
[/shadow]
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2839#msg2839
date=1545138567]
A: Paradise is structured somewhat like the Pacific Crest Trail
(a.k.a. PCT) which traverses the north/south length of three
states-- California, Oregon, and Washington. No matter which of
the three states you might encounter trekkers at any given
moment-- whether south in Campo San Diego, or crossing the
Bridge Of The Gods in Cascade Locks Oregon, or Snoqualmie Pass
Washington --they're all on the very same PCT.
Paradise is sort of like that. There's a section underground
(Matt 12:40, Luke 16:19-31) another in a celestial region called
the third heaven (2Cor 12:2-4) and yet another section located
up in God's neck of the woods. (Rev 2:7)[/QUOTE]
[shadow=blue,left]You dare to compare something on earth to Rev
2:7 :"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith
unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of
the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God."
[/shadow]
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2839#msg2839
date=1545138567]
According to Matt 12:40, John 20:17, and Acts 2:24-32; Christ
didn't go up during his demise, rather, he went down. I'm
guessing the section of paradise to which he and the other guy
departed was the very same one where Abraham and Lazarus were
situated in the 16th chapter of Luke.[/QUOTE]
[shadow=blue,left]Until Jesus' death, all souls believing in GOD
and following the law as best as they could went to Abram's
Bosom. After the Death, Burial and Resurrection (1 Cor 15:1-4)
of Jesus Christ, all death results in burial of the body and the
souls resides in a special place in heaven until Jesus returns
to collect His Bride. The Harpazo-Rapture[/shadow]
[quote author=Olde Tymer link=topic=131.msg2839#msg2839
date=1545138567]
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 85 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 5,177,860 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
_[/font]
[/quote]
[shadow=blue,left]There are a lot more people to find their way
to that area Old Timer in the LITTLE time we all have left.. In
fact the Bible tells us that Hell has increase in size. Isa
5:14
Blade
[/shadow]
#Post#: 2872--------------------------------------------------
Re: Hell's Population Clock
By: Olde Tymer Date: December 20, 2018, 7:53 am
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.
[font=arial]As if hell isn't bad enough, people are in it as
their selves; viz: they are never going to be free from their
own personalities-- their phobias, their hang-ups, their inner
conflicts, their memories, their anger, their hostility, their
rivalries, their prejudice, their bias, their angst, their
gender issues, their resentments, their regrets, their
disappointments, their bitterness, their animosity, their
passions, and their appetites.
Hell is even more of a hell than you might think because, having
missed out on the regeneration about which Christ spoke at John
3:3-8, people take who they are right along with them down
there.
Thus; suicide is not a good way to relieve depression. Depressed
people and/or despondent people, take that low state of mind
right along with them to the other side; and their sorrow will
be even more intensified in fire when they realize that as bad
as things were up here on the surface, their situation up here
wasn't nearly as bad as their situation down below.
You can escape poor health via death, you can escape credit card
debt, you can escape an abusive spouse, you can escape taxes,
you can escape a physical handicap, you can escape pimples, you
can escape a bully, you can escape despots and tyrants, you can
escape a life of neither promise nor future, you can escape
prison, you can escape grinding poverty, and you can escape the
Mafioso; but nobody can escape themselves.
"You've made this day a special day, by just your being you.
There's no person in the whole world like you;
And I like you just the way you are."
(Fred Rogers, a.k.a. Mister Rogers)
Well; I appreciate Fred's work with children; but the fact of
the matter is: there are grown-ups out there who do not feel
special nor do they particularly like the way they are; and
that's never going to change should they end up in the wrong
place when they leave this life.
POP CLOCK UPDATE: 87 days have elapsed since beginning the
thread. If the figures in post #1 are in the ball park, then
something like 5,299,692 new arrivals have checked into the
fiery sector of hades since Sept 24, 2018.
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