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DIR Return to: BIBLE STUDY - From The Late Lori Bolinger
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#Post#: 31611--------------------------------------------------
II Corinthians 4
By: guest24 Date: June 14, 2021, 11:56 am
---------------------------------------------------------
#1
I've thought a lot about this passage since I studied it as part
of another study...I'm wondering what all you you all see in it
that helps us today as those of the world treat us with
everything from lies and false witness to all-out persecution
(as in beatings and murder)
II Corinthians 4:
7 Now we have this treasure in clay jars, so that this
extraordinary power may be from God and not from us. 8 We are
pressured in every way but not crushed; we are perplexed but not
in despair; 9 we are persecuted but not abandoned; we are struck
down but not destroyed. 10 We always carry the death of Jesus in
our body, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our
body. 11 For we who live are always given over to death because
of Jesus, so that Jesus’ life may also be revealed in our mortal
flesh. 12 So death works in us, but life in you. 13 And since we
have the same spirit of faith in keeping with what is written, I
believed, therefore I spoke, we also believe, and therefore
speak. 14 We know that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will
raise us also with Jesus and present us with you. 15 Indeed,
everything is for your benefit, so that grace, extended through
more and more people, may cause thanksgiving to increase to
God’s glory.
16 Therefore we do not give up. Even though our outer person is
being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.
17 For our momentary light affliction[c] is producing for us an
absolutely incomparable eternal weight of glory. 18 So we do not
focus on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen
is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
Just for the record, I am looking mostly for more depth than
just the "Sunday school" answers to this passage...especially in
light of some of the persecution going on in countries that are
close to our hearts not to mention the predicted coming
persecution here. I quoted from HCSB because it is the most
literal without being cumbersome.
#Post#: 31612--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: guest125 Date: June 14, 2021, 2:47 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=1298.msg31611#msg31611
date=1623689813]
#1
I've thought a lot about this passage since I studied it as part
of another study...I'm wondering what all you you all see in it
that helps us today as those of the world treat us with
everything from lies and false witness to all-out persecution
(as in beatings and murder)
II Corinthians 4:
7 Now we have this treasure in clay jars, so that this
extraordinary power may be from God and not from us. 8 We are
pressured in every way but not crushed; we are perplexed but not
in despair; 9 we are persecuted but not abandoned; we are struck
down but not destroyed. 10 We always carry the death of Jesus in
our body, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our
body. 11 For we who live are always given over to death because
of Jesus, so that Jesus’ life may also be revealed in our mortal
flesh. 12 So death works in us, but life in you. 13 And since we
have the same spirit of faith in keeping with what is written, I
believed, therefore I spoke, we also believe, and therefore
speak. 14 We know that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will
raise us also with Jesus and present us with you. 15 Indeed,
everything is for your benefit, so that grace, extended through
more and more people, may cause thanksgiving to increase to
God’s glory.
16 Therefore we do not give up. Even though our outer person is
being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.
17 For our momentary light affliction[c] is producing for us an
absolutely incomparable eternal weight of glory. 18 So we do not
focus on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen
is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
Just for the record, I am looking mostly for more depth than
just the "Sunday school" answers to this passage...especially in
light of some of the persecution going on in countries that are
close to our hearts not to mention the predicted coming
persecution here. I quoted from HCSB because it is the most
literal without being cumbersome.
[/quote]
When I read it Lori, like you perhaps-- I wonder how folks can
miss the meaning. Yet they do.
Often, it's because they have a built-in bias of some kind, or
because they parse and parcel a few verses rather than
considering the whole of the passage, the book, the story -in
other words, the context and in so doing they miss the meaning.
There is no doubt that 'the clay jars' written of, are us. Our
physical earthen bodies and the light that is within is the
light of Christ that is not of us. So why worry? The outer
jar, though it may be destroyed, broken, shattered or
abandoned-- counts for nothing. -And when that happens all that
remains is that light (formerly hidden) that is within.
Probably not going to hear that in Sunday School---- "Boys and
Girls! Boys and Girls! --Look look... listen listen.... Eyes
up here on the flannelgraph. Today we are going to tell the
story of Gideon and how he sneak attacked the Midianites and
scared them so bad that their army men just started killing each
other and Gideon's men chased them and caught their leaders Oreb
and Zeeb and they chopped their heads right off-- Praise Jesus!"
"Okay boys and girls.... everyone pick up your swords and
everyone take also a trumpet. I'm going to turn out all the
lights in a minute so we can act out this scene from the Bible.
-Now light your torches and conceal them inside your clay jars
and when I give the command-- SMASH your jar so that the light
shines out, pick up your trumpet and blow it as loud as you can
and if you see any Midianites come running- whack them with your
swords!"
---'Okay, that WAS FUN! --now gather round here on the carpet
circle and everyone can have two animal crackers and a cup of
juice. Let's talk about the story...
YOU are the clay jars. Jesus is the torch light within you.
One day you are going to get smashed open and only the light
will be left.
See ya next week when we are going to talk about temple
prostitution.'
#Post#: 31667--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: guest24 Date: June 15, 2021, 7:16 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mr E link=topic=1298.msg31612#msg31612
date=1623700047]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=1298.msg31611#msg31611
date=1623689813]
#1
I've thought a lot about this passage since I studied it as part
of another study...I'm wondering what all you you all see in it
that helps us today as those of the world treat us with
everything from lies and false witness to all-out persecution
(as in beatings and murder)
II Corinthians 4:
7 Now we have this treasure in clay jars, so that this
extraordinary power may be from God and not from us. 8 We are
pressured in every way but not crushed; we are perplexed but not
in despair; 9 we are persecuted but not abandoned; we are struck
down but not destroyed. 10 We always carry the death of Jesus in
our body, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our
body. 11 For we who live are always given over to death because
of Jesus, so that Jesus’ life may also be revealed in our mortal
flesh. 12 So death works in us, but life in you. 13 And since we
have the same spirit of faith in keeping with what is written, I
believed, therefore I spoke, we also believe, and therefore
speak. 14 We know that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will
raise us also with Jesus and present us with you. 15 Indeed,
everything is for your benefit, so that grace, extended through
more and more people, may cause thanksgiving to increase to
God’s glory.
16 Therefore we do not give up. Even though our outer person is
being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.
17 For our momentary light affliction[c] is producing for us an
absolutely incomparable eternal weight of glory. 18 So we do not
focus on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen
is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
Just for the record, I am looking mostly for more depth than
just the "Sunday school" answers to this passage...especially in
light of some of the persecution going on in countries that are
close to our hearts not to mention the predicted coming
persecution here. I quoted from HCSB because it is the most
literal without being cumbersome.
[/quote]
When I read it Lori, like you perhaps-- I wonder how folks can
miss the meaning. Yet they do.
Often, it's because they have a built-in bias of some kind, or
because they parse and parcel a few verses rather than
considering the whole of the passage, the book, the story -in
other words, the context and in so doing they miss the meaning.
There is no doubt that 'the clay jars' written of, are us. Our
physical earthen bodies and the light that is within is the
light of Christ that is not of us. So why worry? The outer
jar, though it may be destroyed, broken, shattered or
abandoned-- counts for nothing. -And when that happens all that
remains is that light (formerly hidden) that is within.
Probably not going to hear that in Sunday School---- "Boys and
Girls! Boys and Girls! --Look look... listen listen.... Eyes
up here on the flannelgraph. Today we are going to tell the
story of Gideon and how he sneak attacked the Midianites and
scared them so bad that their army men just started killing each
other and Gideon's men chased them and caught their leaders Oreb
and Zeeb and they chopped their heads right off-- Praise Jesus!"
"Okay boys and girls.... everyone pick up your swords and
everyone take also a trumpet. I'm going to turn out all the
lights in a minute so we can act out this scene from the Bible.
-Now light your torches and conceal them inside your clay jars
and when I give the command-- SMASH your jar so that the light
shines out, pick up your trumpet and blow it as loud as you can
and if you see any Midianites come running- whack them with your
swords!"
---'Okay, that WAS FUN! --now gather round here on the carpet
circle and everyone can have two animal crackers and a cup of
juice. Let's talk about the story...
YOU are the clay jars. Jesus is the torch light within you.
One day you are going to get smashed open and only the light
will be left.
See ya next week when we are going to talk about temple
prostitution.'
[/quote]that was entertaining...lol
I have heard it taught my whole life that we have to be "cracked
pots" for the light to shine out, which basically means broken
as in a broken and contrite heart that is humbled and accepting
of the work of Christ whether through persecution or other
affliction or just a brokenness to the truth of our sins.
What I have been finding intriguing is the part that talks about
being persecuted but not...what amazing power to be thrown in
prison and just praise and sing and worship. We all like to
think that would but us but then we stub a toe and spend days
complaining about how life isn't fair. Or run out of money with
a bill due and cry because we don't know what to do...maybe if
we learned to rejoice and sing and worship God during the hard
times we would discover a new strength that we have only heard
about...just some thoughts.
#Post#: 31669--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: guest125 Date: June 15, 2021, 10:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
One of the things I love to do is look at Paul's letters against
the backdrop of history, not for any special kind of theological
significance but for the enrichment of those stories. Kind of
like adding sound to silent movies, or color to what was once
only black and white. And I just like Paul for being authentic.
How can you not like a guy who calls skubala exactly what it
is? (Phil 3:8 -and he didn't say "dung')
Paul hits the road... hops on a boat... hitchhikes to Europe
(Macedonia). He's doing what he thinks is best and teaching
others to do the same, and along the way he faces all kinds of
opposition which he understands better than most because he used
to be one of the oppressors. He easily forgives those who speak
against him because he used to be just like they were, --until
he wasn't anymore. He was changed and he knows it wasn't
because of any 'goodness' that was in him. It was because he was
flooded by this Light that he later so often speaks of. -And he
knows-- it's what's inside that counts.
#Post#: 31716--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: guest8 Date: June 15, 2021, 8:35 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mr E link=topic=1298.msg31669#msg31669
date=1623770567]
One of the things I love to do is look at Paul's letters against
the backdrop of history, not for any special kind of theological
significance but for the enrichment of those stories. Kind of
like adding sound to silent movies, or color to what was once
only black and white. And I just like Paul for being authentic.
How can you not like a guy who calls skubala exactly what it
is? (Phil 3:8 -and he didn't say "dung')
Paul hits the road... hops on a boat... hitchhikes to Europe
(Macedonia). He's doing what he thinks is best and teaching
others to do the same, and along the way he faces all kinds of
opposition which he understands better than most because he used
to be one of the oppressors. He easily forgives those who speak
against him because he used to be just like they were, --until
he wasn't anymore. He was changed and he knows it wasn't
because of any 'goodness' that was in him. It was because he was
flooded by this Light that he later so often speaks of. -And he
knows-- it's what's inside that counts.
[/quote]
Have you taken a good look at the books he wrote. What 13 of
them? How many epistles? What were the others? Were there any
repeats?
Are any single or group parallel other singular or groups?
A bunch of questions for you my friend.
Blade
#Post#: 31722--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: guest125 Date: June 16, 2021, 9:20 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=1298.msg31716#msg31716
date=1623807314]
[quote author=Mr E link=topic=1298.msg31669#msg31669
date=1623770567]
One of the things I love to do is look at Paul's letters against
the backdrop of history, not for any special kind of theological
significance but for the enrichment of those stories. Kind of
like adding sound to silent movies, or color to what was once
only black and white. And I just like Paul for being authentic.
How can you not like a guy who calls skubala exactly what it
is? (Phil 3:8 -and he didn't say "dung')
Paul hits the road... hops on a boat... hitchhikes to Europe
(Macedonia). He's doing what he thinks is best and teaching
others to do the same, and along the way he faces all kinds of
opposition which he understands better than most because he used
to be one of the oppressors. He easily forgives those who speak
against him because he used to be just like they were, --until
he wasn't anymore. He was changed and he knows it wasn't
because of any 'goodness' that was in him. It was because he was
flooded by this Light that he later so often speaks of. -And he
knows-- it's what's inside that counts.
[/quote]
Have you taken a good look at the books he wrote. What 13 of
them? How many epistles? What were the others? Were there any
repeats?
Are any single or group parallel other singular or groups?
A bunch of questions for you my friend.
Blade
[/quote]
You have questions, we have answers.
HTML https://youtu.be/H-9xIRe0VdA
You could say that much of what Paul wrote was building on, or
expanding on things that Peter taught. Re-Pete's.
You must have something specific in mind. Yes, his writings are
familiar to me. It's of value to consider what he wrote as well
as who he wrote it to...
#Post#: 31723--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: patrick jane Date: June 16, 2021, 9:54 am
---------------------------------------------------------
I will say this until I die: Paul is a Chosen Vessel, like other
men God chose to reveal Himself to. Paul received BY REVELATION,
progressive revelation, NEW information never before known or
revealed to God's servants. Peter could barely understand.
#Post#: 31744--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: guest125 Date: June 16, 2021, 1:13 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1298.msg31723#msg31723
date=1623855272]
I will say this until I die: Paul is a Chosen Vessel, like other
men God chose to reveal Himself to. Paul received BY REVELATION,
progressive revelation, NEW information never before known or
revealed to God's servants. Peter could barely understand.
[/quote]
Peter could barely understand.....? Understand what? English?
Greek? Hebrew? Paul? Jesus?
I think Peter did just fine, as did Paul. Now Mary..... what
ever happened to Mary? The answer to that question my
friend.....
HTML https://youtu.be/Ld6fAO4idaI
#Post#: 31745--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: guest24 Date: June 16, 2021, 4:03 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Mr E link=topic=1298.msg31722#msg31722
date=1623853239]
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=1298.msg31716#msg31716
date=1623807314]
[quote author=Mr E link=topic=1298.msg31669#msg31669
date=1623770567]
One of the things I love to do is look at Paul's letters against
the backdrop of history, not for any special kind of theological
significance but for the enrichment of those stories. Kind of
like adding sound to silent movies, or color to what was once
only black and white. And I just like Paul for being authentic.
How can you not like a guy who calls skubala exactly what it
is? (Phil 3:8 -and he didn't say "dung')
Paul hits the road... hops on a boat... hitchhikes to Europe
(Macedonia). He's doing what he thinks is best and teaching
others to do the same, and along the way he faces all kinds of
opposition which he understands better than most because he used
to be one of the oppressors. He easily forgives those who speak
against him because he used to be just like they were, --until
he wasn't anymore. He was changed and he knows it wasn't
because of any 'goodness' that was in him. It was because he was
flooded by this Light that he later so often speaks of. -And he
knows-- it's what's inside that counts.
[/quote]
Have you taken a good look at the books he wrote. What 13 of
them? How many epistles? What were the others? Were there any
repeats?
Are any single or group parallel other singular or groups?
A bunch of questions for you my friend.
Blade
[/quote]
You have questions, we have answers.
HTML https://youtu.be/H-9xIRe0VdA
You could say that much of what Paul wrote was building on, or
expanding on things that Peter taught. Re-Pete's.
You must have something specific in mind. Yes, his writings are
familiar to me. It's of value to consider what he wrote as well
as who he wrote it to...
[/quote]This is a good reason to listen to women who actually
study the word of God rather than as some do, telling them to
shut up or that they can't teach a man anything...just saying.
#Post#: 31829--------------------------------------------------
Re: II Corinthians 4
By: guest125 Date: June 17, 2021, 9:38 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Ha ha...
The gentler breed. Sometimes I wonder if men would bother
talking at all if it weren’t for women making us. We could get
along fine communicating with grunts and nods, chuckles, winks
and grimacing.
I’m pretty sure that Tower of Babel incident was precipitated by
someone’s decision to put a lady in charge of communications and
confusion was the result. Just kidding! -but in truth it all
did likely factor into Noah getting a boat.
Did you know a man and his buddies can have the best day fishing
together without exchanging a word? It’s true.
*****************************************************
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