DIR Return Create A Forum - Home
---------------------------------------------------------
<form
action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr"
method="post"
target="_top">
<input
type="hidden"
name="cmd"
value="_s-xclick">
<input
type="hidden"
name="hosted_button_id"
value="DKL7ADEKRVUBL">
<input
type="image"
src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/btn/btn_donateCC_LG.gif"
border="0"
name="submit"
alt="PayPal
- The safer, easier way to pay
online!">
<img
alt=""
border="0"
src="https://www.paypalobjects.com/en_US/i/scr/pixel.gif"
width="1"
height="1">
</form>
HTML https://3169.createaforum.com
---------------------------------------------------------
*****************************************************
DIR Return to: Christian Theology
*****************************************************
#Post#: 26473--------------------------------------------------
30 Reasons We do not Operate Under the New Testament
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: March 8, 2021, 5:00 am
---------------------------------------------------------
30 Reasons We do not Operate Under the New Testament
HTML https://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/30-reasons-we-do-not-operate-under-the-new-testament
By Justin Johnson
One common hindrance in understanding how to rightly divide the
word of truth has been the generally wrong teaching about the
New Covenant. The general understanding is that if we are not
under the Old Testament then we must necessarily be under the
New Testament. This is not true.
There is a purpose separate from Israel’s covenants called the
mystery of Christ (Eph 3:4, Col 4:3). The mystery of Christ is
the keystone of what God has been doing for the past two
thousand years. The teaching that we are under Israel’s New
Testament confuses God’s prophetic purpose in Christ with his
mystery purpose in Christ.
No one on the planet today operates under Israel’s New Testament
(NT). Below are a few reasons why.
The NT was not a mystery. Descriptions of the NT are found in
the law, the prophets, and the psalms. The prophetic nature of
Israel’s new covenant contrasts the hidden nature of the
fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9). The subject of the mystery
can not be the subject of the prophesied NT.
Jeremiah is a prophet of Israel. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the most
popular NT verse in the prophets. Jeremiah was writing to
Israel.
Jeremiah said the NT would be made with the “house of Israel”.
Jer 31:31 is clear that the new covenant is made with the “house
of Israel, and with the House of Judah”.
Hebrews says the NT would be made with the “house of Israel”. In
case the prophecy was misunderstood, the NT fulfillment is
explained in Heb 8:8-12. The NT was applied to Hebrews of the
house of Israel and Judah.
Paul did not write Hebrews. The operation of the church today is
found in Paul’s writings. Hebrews speaks most about the New
Testament. However, Paul most likely did not write Hebrews.
There is ample evidence that Paul was not the author, most
importantly, the internal evidence of Hebrews 2:3-4.
There is no “house of Israel” in the body of Christ. As a
nation, Israel has no spiritual standing with God in this
present dispensation. They have been counted in unbelief just as
the Gentiles (Rom 11:32). There is neither Jew nor Gentile in
Christ (Gal 3:28).
The church of this dispensation is not Israel. This fundamental
dispensational truth implies that a covenant made with Israel
was not made with the church called the Body of Christ.
The first testament was not made with the Body of Christ. The
church of this dispensation has never been under the Old
Testament which was given to Israel also. We do not need a new
covenant, we need free grace.
The NT promised the forgiveness of Israel’s sins only. It never
promised the forgiveness of the sins of all men (Mat 20:28, Mat
26:28). A gospel to “all men” was part of the mystery purpose of
Christ (1 Tim 2:6).
The NT pardon would be an honour before all the nations (Jer
33:8-9). When the NT forgiveness is given to Israel, the world
will know and “they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness
and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.”
Jesus’ blood was not limited to the NT. Jesus’ blood instituted
the NT with Israel, however, his blood would also be preached to
all men through the mystery of Christ. The same blood shed at
one cross performed two purposes. There is no need to place the
mystery saints under the NT.
The Body of Christ did not exist during Jesus’ ministry to
Israel. When Jesus spoke of the New Testament blood at the
Passover meal the mystery had not yet been revealed (Mat 26:28).
The New Testament blood is not Paul’s teaching of the blood of
Christ.
NT Israel will be gathered out of all countries (Eze 36:24). The
church today does not have a country to be gathered into.
The New Testament included a law. Most commentators will admit
that the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:33 included a law. Though
it was changed, it was still part of the covenant (Heb 7:12).
The mystery of Christ teaches we are not under the law and are
dead to the law (Rom 6:14, Rom 7:4).
The NT law was written on their hearts. The NT differed from the
OT in that the law was not only “in their mouths”, but it was
“in their hearts” allowing them to do the law (Jer 31:33). The
letter of the NT law was not written on stony hearts but soft
hearts of flesh. In both the OT and the NT the letter of the law
was present.
The NT included the Spirit causing Israel to walk in God’s
statutes (Eze 36:27). With the law written in their hearts, the
supernatural empowerment by the Spirit would cause Israel to
keep the judgments of God. This is not the Spirit’s ministry in
this dispensation where we are instructed to “be filled with the
Spirit” (Eph 5:18).
The NT included an “unction” whereby no one needed to be taught.
Jeremiah and Hebrews explain that “they shall teach no more
every man” (Jer 31:34).
This anointing was tasted by the kingdom remnant in 1 John 2:20
and 1 John 2:27, but is not in operation today. The church today
is in need of teachers who can rightly divide the word of truth.
When the NT is fulfilled then all shall know the Lord (Jer
31:34). The fact that so few understand the gospel of the grace
of God is evidence that the NT promises are not being fulfilled
today. They will be fulfilled at Christ’s return to Earth with
the remnant of Israel.
The NT law could be broken. If those under the NT did “despite
the Spirit of grace” then there remained no more sacrifice for
sins (Heb 10:26-29).
Gentiles were strangers of the covenants of promise (Eph 2:12).
According to the NT, Jesus was a mediator for Israel of a better
covenant based upon better promises (Heb 8:6). Gentiles were
strangers from these covenants of promise. He mediates for us by
his grace.
Those under the NT are waiting for a city to come (Heb 13:14).
The church today has no city to come to Earth (Rev 21:2-3). We
are seated in heavenly places in Christ.
Those under the NT wait for future grace and forgiveness (1
Peter 1:13). We have forgiveness appropriated now (Col 1:14. Eph
4:32). Being crucified with Christ, the body of the sins of the
flesh are cut off from us (Col 2:11). The new covenant will take
away the sins of Israel in the future (Rom 11:27).
Those under the NT wait for future salvation (1 Pet 1:9). Peter
taught that salvation would come from the Lord Jesus at his
return (Acts 3:19). The believing remnant needed to endure to
the end to be saved (Mark 13:13). We have a present possession
of salvation (Rom 5:11). We have what they hope for, but this
does not place us under their covenant.
The NT resulted in dwelling in the land promised to Israel (Eze
36:28). The church today is not promised nor do they receive by
grace any land on Earth. The NT was oriented around Israel’s
earthly promises. We are not under the NT.
We are able ministers of the NT not of the letter (2 Cor 3:6).
Paul says we are able to minister. He does not make us priests
of the NT kingdom. Neither does he place us under the letter of
the NT and its promises. We are able to minister the NT
concerning the more excellent ministry of the Spirit because we
have been given the manifold wisdom of God (Eph 3:10). Paul
ministers the NT in Romans 9-11. Paul teaches about the Spirit
in Romans 8.
We received the Spirit by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:3). We did
not receive the Spirit through a promised covenant but by faith.
Our faith is in the gospel of Christ. The Spirit seals our
position in Christ. Under the NT the Spirit’s powerful signs
followed those operating under it (Acts 10:46).
The Body of Christ is under the headship of Christ, not under
the NT. In Ephesians 1:10 Paul explains that the two purposes of
God, in heaven and in earth, will be gathered together in one,
in and under Christ. We who part of his heavenly purpose are not
placed under the NT earthly purpose.
Israel’s New Covenant is Fulfilled in the Future. Romans
11:25-27 says that the covenant between God and Israel for
forgiveness of sins (the new covenant) will be fulfilled after
the present dispensation. The NT is presently incomplete. It
will be completed at Christ’s return. Our present position in
Christ is complete (Col 2:10).
If we are under the NT now, then God is still operating with the
nation Israel. Since the NT was given to that nation, concerned
that nation’s promises, and is fulfilled in that nation’s
earthly kingdom.
God has changed his operation. Since the fall of Israel and the
revelation of the mystery, God has been offering grace and
salvation to all men (Titus 2:11). This is not an expansion of
the NT, it is a separate thing. If God is not fulfilling the
covenant in this dispensation, then we cannot be under it.
The fellowship of the mystery is not the subject of either the
old or the new testaments. It is not the subject of prophecy.
The mystery of Christ is the keystone of what God has been doing
for the past two thousand years.
Members of the body of Christ in this mystery dispensation are
not under the prophetic new covenant made with Israel. Placing
saints today under any of Israel’s covenants robs us of the
riches of grace we have in Christ alone and usurps the promises
to Israel.
It is important that we remain consistent in our stance
regarding the distinction between prophecy and mystery if the
mystery of Christ is ever to be popularly understood.
#Post#: 26597--------------------------------------------------
Re: 30 Reasons We do not Operate Under the New Testament
DIR By: guest8
Date: March 9, 2021, 7:34 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> 30 Reasons We do not Operate Under the New Testament
>
>
HTML https://graceambassadors.com/prophecy/30-reasons-we-do-not-operate-under-the-new-testament
>
> By Justin Johnson
>
>
> One common hindrance in understanding how to rightly divide
the word of truth has been the generally wrong teaching about
the New Covenant. The general understanding is that if we are
not under the Old Testament then we must necessarily be under
the New Testament. This is not true.
>
> There is a purpose separate from Israel’s covenants called the
mystery of Christ (Eph 3:4, Col 4:3). The mystery of Christ is
the keystone of what God has been doing for the past two
thousand years. The teaching that we are under Israel’s New
Testament confuses God’s prophetic purpose in Christ with his
mystery purpose in Christ.
>
> No one on the planet today operates under Israel’s New
Testament (NT). Below are a few reasons why.
>
> The NT was not a mystery. Descriptions of the NT are found in
the law, the prophets, and the psalms. The prophetic nature of
Israel’s new covenant contrasts the hidden nature of the
fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9). The subject of the mystery
can not be the subject of the prophesied NT.
>
>
> Jeremiah is a prophet of Israel. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the most
popular NT verse in the prophets. Jeremiah was writing to
Israel.
>
>
> Jeremiah said the NT would be made with the “house of Israel”.
Jer 31:31 is clear that the new covenant is made with the “house
of Israel, and with the House of Judah”.
>
>
> Hebrews says the NT would be made with the “house of Israel”.
In case the prophecy was misunderstood, the NT fulfillment is
explained in Heb 8:8-12. The NT was applied to Hebrews of the
house of Israel and Judah.
>
>
> Paul did not write Hebrews. The operation of the church today
is found in Paul’s writings. Hebrews speaks most about the New
Testament. However, Paul most likely did not write Hebrews.
There is ample evidence that Paul was not the author, most
importantly, the internal evidence of Hebrews 2:3-4.
>
>
> There is no “house of Israel” in the body of Christ. As a
nation, Israel has no spiritual standing with God in this
present dispensation. They have been counted in unbelief just as
the Gentiles (Rom 11:32). There is neither Jew nor Gentile in
Christ (Gal 3:28).
>
>
> The church of this dispensation is not Israel. This
fundamental dispensational truth implies that a covenant made
with Israel was not made with the church called the Body of
Christ.
>
>
> The first testament was not made with the Body of Christ. The
church of this dispensation has never been under the Old
Testament which was given to Israel also. We do not need a new
covenant, we need free grace.
>
>
> The NT promised the forgiveness of Israel’s sins only. It
never promised the forgiveness of the sins of all men (Mat
20:28, Mat 26:28). A gospel to “all men” was part of the mystery
purpose of Christ (1 Tim 2:6).
>
>
> The NT pardon would be an honour before all the nations (Jer
33:8-9). When the NT forgiveness is given to Israel, the world
will know and “they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness
and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.”
>
>
> Jesus’ blood was not limited to the NT. Jesus’ blood
instituted the NT with Israel, however, his blood would also be
preached to all men through the mystery of Christ. The same
blood shed at one cross performed two purposes. There is no need
to place the mystery saints under the NT.
>
>
> The Body of Christ did not exist during Jesus’ ministry to
Israel. When Jesus spoke of the New Testament blood at the
Passover meal the mystery had not yet been revealed (Mat 26:28).
The New Testament blood is not Paul’s teaching of the blood of
Christ.
>
>
> NT Israel will be gathered out of all countries (Eze 36:24).
The church today does not have a country to be gathered into.
>
>
> The New Testament included a law. Most commentators will admit
that the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:33 included a law. Though
it was changed, it was still part of the covenant (Heb 7:12).
The mystery of Christ teaches we are not under the law and are
dead to the law (Rom 6:14, Rom 7:4).
> The NT law was written on their hearts. The NT differed from
the OT in that the law was not only “in their mouths”, but it
was “in their hearts” allowing them to do the law (Jer 31:33).
The letter of the NT law was not written on stony hearts but
soft hearts of flesh. In both the OT and the NT the letter of
the law was present.
>
>
> The NT included the Spirit causing Israel to walk in God’s
statutes (Eze 36:27). With the law written in their hearts, the
supernatural empowerment by the Spirit would cause Israel to
keep the judgments of God. This is not the Spirit’s ministry in
this dispensation where we are instructed to “be filled with the
Spirit” (Eph 5:18).
>
>
> The NT included an “unction” whereby no one needed to be
taught. Jeremiah and Hebrews explain that “they shall teach no
more every man” (Jer 31:34).
>
>
> This anointing was tasted by the kingdom remnant in 1 John
2:20 and 1 John 2:27, but is not in operation today. The church
today is in need of teachers who can rightly divide the word of
truth.
>
>
> When the NT is fulfilled then all shall know the Lord (Jer
31:34). The fact that so few understand the gospel of the grace
of God is evidence that the NT promises are not being fulfilled
today. They will be fulfilled at Christ’s return to Earth with
the remnant of Israel.
>
>
> The NT law could be broken. If those under the NT did “despite
the Spirit of grace” then there remained no more sacrifice for
sins (Heb 10:26-29).
> Gentiles were strangers of the covenants of promise (Eph
2:12). According to the NT, Jesus was a mediator for Israel of a
better covenant based upon better promises (Heb 8:6). Gentiles
were strangers from these covenants of promise. He mediates for
us by his grace.
>
>
> Those under the NT are waiting for a city to come (Heb 13:14).
The church today has no city to come to Earth (Rev 21:2-3). We
are seated in heavenly places in Christ.
>
>
> Those under the NT wait for future grace and forgiveness (1
Peter 1:13). We have forgiveness appropriated now (Col 1:14. Eph
4:32). Being crucified with Christ, the body of the sins of the
flesh are cut off from us (Col 2:11). The new covenant will take
away the sins of Israel in the future (Rom 11:27).
>
>
> Those under the NT wait for future salvation (1 Pet 1:9).
Peter taught that salvation would come from the Lord Jesus at
his return (Acts 3:19). The believing remnant needed to endure
to the end to be saved (Mark 13:13). We have a present
possession of salvation (Rom 5:11). We have what they hope for,
but this does not place us under their covenant.
>
>
> The NT resulted in dwelling in the land promised to Israel
(Eze 36:28). The church today is not promised nor do they
receive by grace any land on Earth. The NT was oriented around
Israel’s earthly promises. We are not under the NT.
>
>
> We are able ministers of the NT not of the letter (2 Cor 3:6).
Paul says we are able to minister. He does not make us priests
of the NT kingdom. Neither does he place us under the letter of
the NT and its promises. We are able to minister the NT
concerning the more excellent ministry of the Spirit because we
have been given the manifold wisdom of God (Eph 3:10). Paul
ministers the NT in Romans 9-11. Paul teaches about the Spirit
in Romans 8.
>
>
> We received the Spirit by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:3). We
did not receive the Spirit through a promised covenant but by
faith. Our faith is in the gospel of Christ. The Spirit seals
our position in Christ. Under the NT the Spirit’s powerful signs
followed those operating under it (Acts 10:46).
>
>
> The Body of Christ is under the headship of Christ, not under
the NT. In Ephesians 1:10 Paul explains that the two purposes of
God, in heaven and in earth, will be gathered together in one,
in and under Christ. We who part of his heavenly purpose are not
placed under the NT earthly purpose.
>
>
> Israel’s New Covenant is Fulfilled in the Future. Romans
11:25-27 says that the covenant between God and Israel for
forgiveness of sins (the new covenant) will be fulfilled after
the present dispensation. The NT is presently incomplete. It
will be completed at Christ’s return. Our present position in
Christ is complete (Col 2:10).
>
>
> If we are under the NT now, then God is still operating with
the nation Israel. Since the NT was given to that nation,
concerned that nation’s promises, and is fulfilled in that
nation’s earthly kingdom.
>
>
> God has changed his operation. Since the fall of Israel and
the revelation of the mystery, God has been offering grace and
salvation to all men (Titus 2:11). This is not an expansion of
the NT, it is a separate thing. If God is not fulfilling the
covenant in this dispensation, then we cannot be under it.
> The fellowship of the mystery is not the subject of either the
old or the new testaments. It is not the subject of prophecy.
The mystery of Christ is the keystone of what God has been doing
for the past two thousand years.
>
>
> Members of the body of Christ in this mystery dispensation are
not under the prophetic new covenant made with Israel. Placing
saints today under any of Israel’s covenants robs us of the
riches of grace we have in Christ alone and usurps the promises
to Israel.
>
>
> It is important that we remain consistent in our stance
regarding the distinction between prophecy and mystery if the
mystery of Christ is ever to be popularly understood.
>
--- End Quote ---
REALLY:? I do not agree with much of this post. If we are not
under the NT or the OT then what are we under.
Blade
#Post#: 26598--------------------------------------------------
Re: 30 Reasons We do not Operate Under the New Testament
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: March 9, 2021, 7:41 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Grace
#Post#: 26642--------------------------------------------------
Re: 30 Reasons We do not Operate Under the New Testament
DIR By: patrick jane
Date: March 10, 2021, 4:32 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Blade, how can you disagree with these 30 reasons? All 30 you
disagree with? You put no effort into this. ;D
#Post#: 26672--------------------------------------------------
Re: 30 Reasons We do not Operate Under the New Testament
DIR By: guest8
Date: March 10, 2021, 9:27 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Blade, how can you disagree with these 30 reasons? All 30 you
disagree with? You put no effort into this. ;D
>
--- End Quote ---
Well it was not all 30 but let me explain, will post it tomorrow
evening. Don't have time tonight. However, you are right, I did
not put much effort into it. thanks for reminding me.
Blade
#Post#: 26723--------------------------------------------------
Re: 30 Reasons We do not Operate Under the New Testament
DIR By: guest8
Date: March 11, 2021, 8:38 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
--- Quote from: Bladerunner link ---
>
> [quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1236.msg26642#msg26642
date=1615372342]
> Blade, how can you disagree with these 30 reasons? All 30 you
disagree with? You put no effort into this. ;D
>
--- End Quote ---
Well it was not all 30 but let me explain, will post it tomorrow
evening. Don't have time tonight. However, you are right, I did
not put much effort into it. thanks for reminding me.
Blade
[/quote]
Here it is for what it is worth..
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Blade, how can you disagree with these 30 reasons? All 30 you
disagree with? You put no effort into this. ;D
>
--- End Quote ---
ok, let me explain.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
>
> By Justin Johnson
>
> One common hindrance in understanding how to rightly divide
the word of truth has been the generally wrong teaching about
the New Covenant. The general understanding is that if we are
not under the Old Testament then we must necessarily be under
the New Testament. This is not true.
>
> There is a purpose separate from Israel’s covenants called the
mystery of Christ (Eph 3:4, Col 4:3). The mystery of Christ is
the keystone of what God has been doing for the past two
thousand years. The teaching that we are under Israel’s New
Testament confuses God’s prophetic purpose in Christ with his
mystery purpose in Christ.
>
> No one on the planet today operates under Israel’s New
Testament (NT). Below are a few reasons why.
--- End Quote ---
“Israel’s New Testament (NT)” being mentioned above brings up
several questions but one that is most important...How did the
NT become “Israel’s New Testament”. I find nothing above that
tells me the NT is for Israel only.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
>
> The NT was not a mystery. Descriptions of the NT are found in
the law, the prophets, and the psalms. The prophetic nature of
Israel’s new covenant contrasts the hidden nature of the
fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9). The subject of the mystery
can not be the subject of the prophesied NT.
--- End Quote ---
Who is speaking about the NT being a mystery. If “mystery” means
“hidden” then the NT was indeed hidden in the OT. Prophecies of
the OT revealed events to happen yet failed to mention they
would be set aside in another testament. The making of a NT was
only revealed in Heb 9:16-17. The writings of the OT were
finished in 270 BC at Alexandria, Greece.
From the beginning of the NT, it is clear this new testament
would be the defining of a specific ‘Ekklesia’. This ‘ekklesia
‘ was very specific to Jesus Christ….We see in Mat 16:18..”And I
say also unto thee, That thou art Peter,(stone) and upon this
rock, I will build my church (ekklesia) ; and the gates of hell
shall not prevail against it.” (Emphasis added)
Having said this, “The NT was not a mystery. Descriptions of the
NT are found in the law, the prophets, and the psalms.” as
described above is not true either. The mystery of the Ekklesia
(the Church) remained a mystery until Paul brought it forth in
the NT. The Mystery of the Messiah of Israel and the Savior of
the world were both prophesied in the OT and revealed in the NT.
How the “prophetic nature of Israel’s New Covenant”is brought
into the Eph 3:9 scripture escapes me. It is not mentioned in
either pre or post context of Eph 3:9.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Jeremiah is a prophet of Israel. Jeremiah 31:31-34 is the most
popular NT verse in the prophets. Jeremiah was writing to
Israel.
--- End Quote ---
How is the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34), “a popular NT verse
“when it is in the OT.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Jeremiah said the NT would be made with the “house of Israel”.
Jer 31:31 is clear that the new covenant is made with the “house
of Israel, and with the House of Judah”.
--- End Quote ---
Is this a typo error…”Jeremiah said the NT would be made with
the “house of Israel”....I hope so….for it makes no sense
whatsoever.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Hebrews says the NT would be made with the “house of Israel”.
In case the prophecy was misunderstood, the NT fulfillment is
explained in Heb 8:8-12. The NT was applied to Hebrews of the
house of Israel and Judah.
--- End Quote ---
This has to be a typo error. There is no explanation of it if it
is not a typo.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Paul did not write Hebrews. The operation of the church today
is found in Paul’s writings. Hebrews speaks most about the New
Testament. However, Paul most likely did not write Hebrews.
There is ample evidence that Paul was not the author, most
importantly, the internal evidence of Hebrews 2:3-4.
--- End Quote ---
There is much disagreement as to who wrote Hebrews. Because of
some technical/stylistic notes, I believe Paul did indeed write
Hebrews. I see nothing in Heb 2:3-4 that precludes Paul being
the author.
Paul is speaking to the Messianic Jews, those who believe in
Jesus Christ. I do agree that Paul is speaking about the NT as
it is about the Ekklesia of Jesus Christ.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> There is no “house of Israel” in the body of Christ. As a
nation, Israel has no spiritual standing with God in this
present dispensation. They have not counted in unbelief just as
the Gentiles (Rom 11:32). There is neither Jew nor Gentile in
Christ (Gal 3:28).
--- End Quote ---
I agree there is no House of Israel in the Body of Christ. I
also agree with the statement that Israel as a nation has no
spiritual standing with GOD in Church dispensation era. I am not
sure what the author is trying to convey in the last two
sentences?
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> The church of this dispensation is not Israel. This
fundamental dispensational truth implies that a covenant made
with Israel was not made with the church called the Body of
Christ.
--- End Quote ---
Agree
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> The first testament was not made with the Body of Christ. The
church of this dispensation has never been under the Old
Testament which was given to Israel also. We do not need a new
covenant, we need free grace.
--- End Quote ---
The First Testament the author mentions is most likely the OT
yet, the author makes a plural out of the two sentences by the
“given to Israel ALSO” statement. Thus I do not understand what
the author is trying to say.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> The NT promised the forgiveness of Israel’s sins only. It
never promised the forgiveness of the sins of all men (Mat
20:28, Mat 26:28). A gospel to “all men” was part of the mystery
purpose of Christ (1 Tim 2:6).
--- End Quote ---
Again, the “NT” or the “NC” I cannot tell. The New Testament
does state that because of Jesus Christ, the world’s (who GOD
loved so much) sins would be forgiven. The “NC” was specific for
the REMANT of Israel.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> The NT pardon would be an honour before all the nations (Jer
33:8-9). When the NT forgiveness is given to Israel, the world
will know and “they shall fear and tremble for all the goodness
and for all the prosperity that I procure unto it.”
--- End Quote ---
“NT Israel” sees to be the bane of the author’s existance.
Jeremiah does not state such but only about a future time. As we
can see the past it was a far future to those who were hearing
His words.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> Jesus’ blood was not limited to the NT. Jesus’ blood
instituted the NT with Israel, however, his blood would also be
preached to all men through the mystery of Christ. The same
blood shed at one cross performed two purposes. There is no need
to place the mystery saints under the NT.
--- End Quote ---
The author uses NT as if He is trying to define HIS early NT
dealings with Israel. Yes, His blood was shed for the WORLD,
not just Israel. Is the Mystery Saints speaking of the church
or of the Tribulation Saints or of the 144,000 saints? I do not
know but do know that His Church was indeed started within the
period known as the New Testament.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> The Body of Christ did not exist during Jesus’ ministry to
Israel. When Jesus spoke of the New Testament blood at the
Passover meal the mystery had not yet been revealed (Mat 26:28).
The New Testament blood is not Paul’s teaching of the blood of
Christ.
--- End Quote ---
The Church that Jesus created (the body of Christ) did not exist
until Acts chapter 2. However, this “NT BLOOD” the author speaks
of is for everyone and it represents the Blood that was shed for
the World not just Israel. While the author denies the Blood (NT
BLOOD) was not spoken of by Paul, the reality is that in many
passages, the blood of Jesus Christ was preached to the masses.
An example: Rom 3:25.[color=red].”Whom God hath set forth to be
a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his
righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through
the forbearance of God;” [/color]
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> NT Israel will be gathered out of all countries (Eze 36:24).
The church today does not have a country to be gathered into.
--- End Quote ---
The author still refers to the New Testament and pulls the
Church out of the NT. This in my opinion is Heresy
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> The New Testament included a law. Most commentators will admit
that the new covenant in Jeremiah 31:33 included a law. Though
it was changed, it was still part of the covenant (Heb 7:12).
The mystery of Christ teaches we are not under the law and are
dead to the law (Rom 6:14, Rom 7:4).
> The NT law was written on their hearts. The NT differed from
the OT in that the law was not only “in their mouths”, but it
was “in their hearts” allowing them to do the law (Jer 31:33).
The letter of the NT law was not written on stony hearts but
soft hearts of flesh. In both the OT and the NT the letter of
the law was present.
--- End Quote ---
All of this paragraph is far from what is actually written...The
author is trying to rewrite the NT. It is nothing but Heresy.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> The NT included the Spirit causing Israel to walk in God’s
statutes (Eze 36:27). With the law written in their hearts, the
supernatural empowerment by the Spirit would cause Israel to
keep the judgments of God. This is not the Spirit’s ministry in
this dispensation where we are instructed to “be filled with the
Spirit” (Eph 5:18).
>
>
> The NT included an “unction” whereby no one needed to be
taught. Jeremiah and Hebrews explain that “they shall teach no
more every man” (Jer 31:34).
>
>
> This anointing was tasted by the kingdom remnant in 1 John
2:20 and 1 John 2:27, but is not in operation today. The church
today is in need of teachers who can rightly divide the word of
truth.
>
>
> When the NT is fulfilled then all shall know the Lord (Jer
31:34). The fact that so few understand the gospel of the grace
of God is evidence that the NT promises are not being fulfilled
today. They will be fulfilled at Christ’s return to Earth with
the remnant of Israel.
>
>
> The NT law could be broken. If those under the NT did “despite
the Spirit of grace” then there remained no more sacrifice for
sins (Heb 10:26-29).
> Gentiles were strangers of the covenants of promise (Eph
2:12). According to the NT, Jesus was a mediator for Israel of a
better covenant based upon better promises (Heb 8:6). Gentiles
were strangers from these covenants of promise. He mediates for
us by his grace.
>
>
> Those under the NT are waiting for a city to come (Heb 13:14).
The church today has no city to come to Earth (Rev 21:2-3). We
are seated in heavenly places in Christ.
>
>
> Those under the NT wait for future grace and forgiveness (1
Peter 1:13). We have forgiveness appropriated now (Col 1:14. Eph
4:32). Being crucified with Christ, the body of the sins of the
flesh are cut off from us (Col 2:11). The new covenant will take
away the sins of Israel in the future (Rom 11:27).
>
>
> Those under the NT wait for future salvation (1 Pet 1:9).
Peter taught that salvation would come from the Lord Jesus at
his return (Acts 3:19). The believing remnant needed to endure
to the end to be saved (Mark 13:13). We have a present
possession of salvation (Rom 5:11). We have what they hope for,
but this does not place us under their covenant.
>
>
> The NT resulted in dwelling in the land promised to Israel
(Eze 36:28). The church today is not promised nor do they
receive by grace any land on Earth. The NT was oriented around
Israel’s earthly promises. We are not under the NT.
>
>
> We are able ministers of the NT not of the letter (2 Cor 3:6).
Paul says we are able to minister. He does not make us priests
of the NT kingdom. Neither does he place us under the letter of
the NT and its promises. We are able to minister the NT
concerning the more excellent ministry of the Spirit because we
have been given the manifold wisdom of God (Eph 3:10). Paul
ministers the NT in Romans 9-11. Paul teaches about the Spirit
in Romans 8.
>
>
> We received the Spirit by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:3). We
did not receive the Spirit through a promised covenant but by
faith. Our faith is in the gospel of Christ. The Spirit seals
our position in Christ. Under the NT the Spirit’s powerful signs
followed those operating under it (Acts 10:46).
>
>
> The Body of Christ is under the headship of Christ, not under
the NT. In Ephesians 1:10 Paul explains that the two purposes of
God, in heaven and in earth, will be gathered together in one,
in and under Christ. We who part of his heavenly purpose are not
placed under the NT earthly purpose.
>
>
> Israel’s New Covenant is Fulfilled in the Future. Romans
11:25-27 says that the covenant between God and Israel for
forgiveness of sins (the new covenant) will be fulfilled after
the present dispensation.
--- End Quote ---
For what ever reason, the Author has tried to make the New
Testatment a separate document that pits Israel against the Body
of Christ (His Church) This I can assure you, in reality is not
the case.
NOTE: there were so many problems the author had with the NT in
these paragraphs above that I decided to lump them all together.
It seem the author is going around in circles trying to convince
others.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> The NT is presently incomplete. It will be completed at
Christ’s return. Our present position in Christ is complete (Col
2:10).
>
> If we are under the NT now, then God is still operating with
the nation Israel. Since the NT was given to that nation,
concerned that nation’s promises, and is fulfilled in that
nation’s earthly kingdom.
--- End Quote ---
Yes, the New Testament is incomplete and will be incomplete
until the millennium and beyond has been fulfilled. There will
not be another Testament to come as there will be not another
death of a testator to bring in a Testament. Yes, the first part
of the NT, (Matthew thru Acts chapter 1) did preach a kingdom of
Heaven Gospel. However, that changed in Acts 2, the dispensation
(of the Church or of Grace) begins and will end with the event
named Pre-Trib Rapture. At this time, a new dispensation will
begin (the Millennial) preaching the everlasting Gospel.
--- Quote from: patrick jane link ---
>
> God has changed his operation. Since the fall of Israel and
the revelation of the mystery, God has been offering grace and
salvation to all men (Titus 2:11). This is not an expansion of
the NT, it is a separate thing. If God is not fulfilling the
covenant in this dispensation, then we cannot be under it.
> The fellowship of the mystery is not the subject of either the
old or the new testaments. It is not the subject of prophecy.
The mystery of Christ is the keystone of what God has been doing
for the past two thousand years.
>
>
> Members of the body of Christ in this mystery dispensation are
not under the prophetic new covenant made with Israel. Placing
saints today under any of Israel’s covenants robs us of the
riches of grace we have in Christ alone and usurps the promises
to Israel.
>
>
> It is important that we remain consistent in our stance
regarding the distinction between prophecy and mystery if the
mystery of Christ is ever to be popularly understood.
--- End Quote ---
It seems that many Jews are part of the Church (Body of
Christ). The author appears to not be able to deal with this
fact. Most of this post is nothing but Heresy or a different
opinion on what is considered main stream.
Blade
*****************************************************
Page 1 of 1