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#Post#: 23454--------------------------------------------------
Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
By: True Believer Date: January 7, 2021, 12:49 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
A little bit about my Back Ground...
For Many years I had been a Hardcore defender of the Trinity
doctrine.. in fact, could defend it better than 90% of present
day Trinitarians.
Then I was faced with a plethora of Questions..
Who died on the Cross?
Who Sent God to do their Will?
Who's words was God speaking?
How can you blaspheme/speak words against God and it be
forgivable?
Hard facts of the Trinity Doctrine...
God from God
God became Flesh
God is the Son
then I had to ask myself.. If God was the Father of Jesus, then
who was the one the Angel said that Jesus was conceived of if
not God?
The very Beginning of the Lords prayer states "Our Father, who
art in heaven, hallowed be thy name."
Scripture that debunks the very notion of a trinity.
John 14:23,24 "Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves
Me, he will follow My word; and My Father will love him, and We
will come to him and make Our dwelling with him. 24 He who does
not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear
is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me."
Had Jesus been "God in the Flesh" their would not have been "WE'
but it would have read "I"
John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will,
but the will of him that sent me."
.Just to name a couple, but there are plenty in the first 4
books of the NT.
Please try to keep the insults to a minimum, if you can.. I know
ic can be hard as I am guilty of them as well..
There is nothing in Scripture that validates God from God, God
is the Son, Nor that Jesus was God in the Flesh.
#Post#: 23456--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validate via Scripture.
By: patrick jane Date: January 7, 2021, 1:29 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=True Believer link=topic=1173.msg23454#msg23454
date=1610045380]
A little bit about my Back Ground...
For Many years I had been a Hardcore defender of the Trinity
doctrine.. in fact, could defend it better than 90% of present
day Trinitarians.
Then I was faced with a plethora of Questions..
Who died on the Cross?
Who Sent God to do their Will?
Who's words was God speaking?
How can you blaspheme/speak words against God and it be
forgivable?
Hard facts of the Trinity Doctrine...
God from God
God became Flesh
God is the Son
then I had to ask myself.. If God was the Father of Jesus, then
who was the one the Angel said that Jesus was conceived of if
not God?
The very Beginning of the Lords prayer states "Our Father, who
art in heaven, hallowed be thy name."
Scripture that debunks the very notion of a trinity.
John 14:23,24 "Jesus answered and said to him, “If anyone loves
Me, he will follow My word; and My Father will love him, and We
will come to him and make Our dwelling with him. 24 He who does
not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear
is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me."
Had Jesus been "God in the Flesh" their would not have been "WE'
but it would have read "I"
John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will,
but the will of him that sent me."
.Just to name a couple, but there are plenty in the first 4
books of the NT.
Please try to keep the insults to a minimum, if you can.. I know
ic can be hard as I am guilty of them as well..
There is nothing in Scripture that validates God from God, God
is the Son, Nor that Jesus was God in the Flesh.
[/quote]See, now I think these verses show the triune God, with
the word "We". Father, Son, Holy Ghost. I must admit that I quit
debating this topic and started leaning towards a more non
trinitarian view of God. This is a very deep and enigmatic topic
to say the least. Thank you for starting this thread.
#Post#: 23457--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validate via Scripture.
By: True Believer Date: January 7, 2021, 1:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1173.msg23456#msg23456
date=1610047794]
]See, now I think these verses show the triune God, with the
word "We". Father, Son, Holy Ghost. I must admit that I quit
debating this topic and started leaning towards a more non
trinitarian view of God. This is a very deep and enigmatic topic
to say the least. Thank you for starting this thread.
[/quote]
The "We" in Question is God and Jesus.. a duality.
Jesus often says Him that sent me and He who sent me.
#Post#: 23462--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validate via Scripture.
By: guest8 Date: January 7, 2021, 11:08 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=True Believer
link=topic=1173.msg23457#msg23457 date=1610048412]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1173.msg23456#msg23456
date=1610047794]
]See, now I think these verses show the triune God, with the
word "We". Father, Son, Holy Ghost. I must admit that I quit
debating this topic and started leaning towards a more non
trinitarian view of God. This is a very deep and enigmatic topic
to say the least. Thank you for starting this thread.
[/quote]
The "We" in Question is God and Jesus.. a duality.
Jesus often says Him that sent me and He who sent me.
[/quote]
Good evening True Believer :
If you say is true then all believers who are justified
(including yourself) have been lied to and will be condemned to
The Lake of Fire along with Lucifer,
For in Deu 6:4..God (the author) tells us this..."Hear, O
Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
There is only one GOD yet, one must be baptized in all three
entities of the GodHead. Mat 28:19.
Oh yes, the GodHead??..Col 2:6.."As ye have therefore received
Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:"
indwelling spirit of GOD Yet, to get here at this place in
time, we must first be baptized in what?: Mat 28:19.."Go ye
therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
I do not insult you but rather care about the reasons why you
changed from the Trinity. For among all doctrines of the
Bible, an error in this doctrine is by far the most dangerous.
If you wish, we can debate this misgivings of your where all can
see.
Blade
#Post#: 23468--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validate via Scripture.
By: True Believer Date: January 8, 2021, 6:59 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Bladerunner link=topic=1173.msg23462#msg23462
date=1610082497]
[quote author=True Believer
link=topic=1173.msg23457#msg23457 date=1610048412]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1173.msg23456#msg23456
date=1610047794]
]See, now I think these verses show the triune God, with the
word "We". Father, Son, Holy Ghost. I must admit that I quit
debating this topic and started leaning towards a more non
trinitarian view of God. This is a very deep and enigmatic topic
to say the least. Thank you for starting this thread.
[/quote]
The "We" in Question is God and Jesus.. a duality.
Jesus often says Him that sent me and He who sent me.
[/quote]
Good evening True Believer :
If you say is true then all believers who are justified
(including yourself) have been lied to and will be condemned to
The Lake of Fire along with Lucifer,
For in Deu 6:4..God (the author) tells us this..."Hear, O
Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:"
There is only one GOD yet, one must be baptized in all three
entities of the GodHead. Mat 28:19.
Oh yes, the GodHead??..Col 2:6.."As ye have therefore received
Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:"
indwelling spirit of GOD Yet, to get here at this place in
time, we must first be baptized in what?: Mat 28:19.."Go ye
therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of
the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
I do not insult you but rather care about the reasons why you
changed from the Trinity. For among all doctrines of the
Bible, an error in this doctrine is by far the most dangerous.
If you wish, we can debate this misgivings of your where all can
see.
Blade
[/quote]
If you would like to debate we can certainly do that as well..
as soon as you can answer one question...
Whose will was Jesus doing, if he were in fact God in the Flesh,
if not his own? because he clearly states that he is doing the
will of the one who sent him..
#Post#: 23469--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
By: patrick jane Date: January 8, 2021, 7:41 am
---------------------------------------------------------
As I understand God, He is One. God is triune in nature, three
persons of God. Therefore, the Father's Will is always done.
Jesus Christ in uncreated and God IS the Holy Ghost as well. I
believe completely in the divinity of Jesus and His knowledge
and power were diminished while He was in the flesh, in my
opinion.
#Post#: 23470--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
By: True Believer Date: January 8, 2021, 8:14 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1173.msg23469#msg23469
date=1610113293]
As I understand God, He is One. God is triune in nature, three
persons of God. Therefore, the Father's Will is always done.
Jesus Christ in uncreated and God IS the Holy Ghost as well. I
believe completely in the divinity of Jesus and His knowledge
and power were diminished while He was in the flesh, in my
opinion.
[/quote]
I believe in the Divinity of Jesus as well but Divinity does not
equal Deity.. this is where people get things mixed up...
When you say diminished, are you saying that the Angels of God
that came down to minister to Jesus were not being completely
forthcoming???
The second you split God into 3 separate persons you are
creating 3 separate Gods.. now when a person states that Jesus
was God in the flesh then you open a can of worms you cannot
close because by that very statement Jesus was , In Fact, God,
therefore Jesus would be doing his own will and not that of
someone else..
I know many will look at what I just said and take it all out of
context because they will only focus on one thing, which is what
Trinitarians do, find the one thing they can rail against.
Example, do you believe that we are free from the Law of God?
#Post#: 23471--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
By: guest24 Date: January 8, 2021, 8:36 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=True Believer link=topic=1173.msg23470#msg23470
date=1610115261]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1173.msg23469#msg23469
date=1610113293]
As I understand God, He is One. God is triune in nature, three
persons of God. Therefore, the Father's Will is always done.
Jesus Christ in uncreated and God IS the Holy Ghost as well. I
believe completely in the divinity of Jesus and His knowledge
and power were diminished while He was in the flesh, in my
opinion.
[/quote]
I believe in the Divinity of Jesus as well but Divinity does not
equal Deity.. this is where people get things mixed up...
When you say diminished, are you saying that the Angels of God
that came down to minister to Jesus were not being completely
forthcoming???[/quote] I feel like we are trying to bite off
more than we can chew in one bite...so I'll try to jump
in...starting here. I do NOT believe that we can fully
understand the trinity in the flesh, it takes faith. That being
said one explanation I heard which is valid from the standpoint
of scripture is that of a government...One government but
different rulers. Of course, this isn't a perfect illustration
in that we have to accept it by faith but it does show the
concept in a manner that makes logical sense which as I
understand your current argument it is about logic, not
scripture.
This understanding then leaves no quandary that I understand
here. [quote]
The second you split God into 3 separate persons you are
creating 3 separate Gods.. now when a person states that Jesus
was God in the flesh then you open a can of worms you cannot
close because by that very statement Jesus was , In Fact, God,
therefore Jesus would be doing his own will and not that of
someone else..[/quote] as I understand trinity teaching (not
orthodox but mainstream) God revealed Himself in three different
personifications...iow's not three different persons which we
know that as one being Spirit would be the "logical" teaching,
but rather three different manifestations of One being. A
modern day example would be that I am daughter, wife, and
mother. One person three different manifestations of who I am
in totality. [quote]
I know many will look at what I just said and take it all out of
context because they will only focus on one thing, which is what
Trinitarians do, find the one thing they can rail against.
Example, do you believe that we are free from the Law of God?
[/quote]Not sure what you mean by this, which law? There is the
law of sin and death, the Mosaic law, the ten commandment law,
and the law of Love...which are you referring to here?
#Post#: 23472--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
By: True Believer Date: January 8, 2021, 8:45 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=1173.msg23471#msg23471
date=1610116565]
[quote author=True Believer link=topic=1173.msg23470#msg23470
date=1610115261]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1173.msg23469#msg23469
date=1610113293]
As I understand God, He is One. God is triune in nature, three
persons of God. Therefore, the Father's Will is always done.
Jesus Christ in uncreated and God IS the Holy Ghost as well. I
believe completely in the divinity of Jesus and His knowledge
and power were diminished while He was in the flesh, in my
opinion.
[/quote]
I believe in the Divinity of Jesus as well but Divinity does not
equal Deity.. this is where people get things mixed up...
When you say diminished, are you saying that the Angels of God
that came down to minister to Jesus were not being completely
forthcoming???[/quote] I feel like we are trying to bite off
more than we can chew in one bite...so I'll try to jump
in...starting here. I do NOT believe that we can fully
understand the trinity in the flesh, it takes faith. That being
said one explanation I heard which is valid from the standpoint
of scripture is that of a government...One government but
different rulers. Of course, this isn't a perfect illustration
in that we have to accept it by faith but it does show the
concept in a manner that makes logical sense which as I
understand your current argument it is about logic, not
scripture.
This understanding then leaves no quandary that I understand
here. [quote]
The second you split God into 3 separate persons you are
creating 3 separate Gods.. now when a person states that Jesus
was God in the flesh then you open a can of worms you cannot
close because by that very statement Jesus was , In Fact, God,
therefore Jesus would be doing his own will and not that of
someone else..[/quote] as I understand trinity teaching (not
orthodox but mainstream) God revealed Himself in three different
personifications...iow's not three different persons which we
know that as one being Spirit would be the "logical" teaching,
but rather three different manifestations of One being. A
modern day example would be that I am daughter, wife, and
mother. One person three different manifestations of who I am
in totality. [quote]
I know many will look at what I just said and take it all out of
context because they will only focus on one thing, which is what
Trinitarians do, find the one thing they can rail against.
Example, do you believe that we are free from the Law of God?
[/quote]Not sure what you mean by this, which law? There is the
law of sin and death, the Mosaic law, the ten commandment law,
and the law of Love...which are you referring to here?
[/quote]
there is only one Law of God...
I was actually hoping you would pop in here...TY for showing
up...
#Post#: 23473--------------------------------------------------
Re: Trinity cannot be validated via Scripture.
By: guest24 Date: January 8, 2021, 9:22 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=True Believer link=topic=1173.msg23472#msg23472
date=1610117117]
[quote author=Lori Bolinger link=topic=1173.msg23471#msg23471
date=1610116565]
[quote author=True Believer link=topic=1173.msg23470#msg23470
date=1610115261]
[quote author=patrick jane link=topic=1173.msg23469#msg23469
date=1610113293]
As I understand God, He is One. God is triune in nature, three
persons of God. Therefore, the Father's Will is always done.
Jesus Christ in uncreated and God IS the Holy Ghost as well. I
believe completely in the divinity of Jesus and His knowledge
and power were diminished while He was in the flesh, in my
opinion.
[/quote]
I believe in the Divinity of Jesus as well but Divinity does not
equal Deity.. this is where people get things mixed up...
When you say diminished, are you saying that the Angels of God
that came down to minister to Jesus were not being completely
forthcoming???[/quote] I feel like we are trying to bite off
more than we can chew in one bite...so I'll try to jump
in...starting here. I do NOT believe that we can fully
understand the trinity in the flesh, it takes faith. That being
said one explanation I heard which is valid from the standpoint
of scripture is that of a government...One government but
different rulers. Of course, this isn't a perfect illustration
in that we have to accept it by faith but it does show the
concept in a manner that makes logical sense which as I
understand your current argument it is about logic, not
scripture.
This understanding then leaves no quandary that I understand
here. [quote]
The second you split God into 3 separate persons you are
creating 3 separate Gods.. now when a person states that Jesus
was God in the flesh then you open a can of worms you cannot
close because by that very statement Jesus was , In Fact, God,
therefore Jesus would be doing his own will and not that of
someone else..[/quote] as I understand trinity teaching (not
orthodox but mainstream) God revealed Himself in three different
personifications...iow's not three different persons which we
know that as one being Spirit would be the "logical" teaching,
but rather three different manifestations of One being. A
modern day example would be that I am daughter, wife, and
mother. One person three different manifestations of who I am
in totality. [quote]
I know many will look at what I just said and take it all out of
context because they will only focus on one thing, which is what
Trinitarians do, find the one thing they can rail against.
Example, do you believe that we are free from the Law of God?
[/quote]Not sure what you mean by this, which law? There is the
law of sin and death, the Mosaic law, the ten commandment law,
and the law of Love...which are you referring to here?
[/quote]
there is only one Law of God...[/quote] which one are you
referring to? I'm not following the question. [quote]
I was actually hoping you would pop in here...TY for showing
up...
[/quote]I don't know whether to be nervous, scared, or
complimented....lol
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