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DIR Return to: Forum Pastor and Chaplain
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#Post#: 19005--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest24 Date: October 17, 2020, 10:43 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=11.msg18994#msg18994 date=1602910405]
Okay, I am going out on a limb and hope it starts a conversation
and not a conflict. I have heard and read about salvation.
There is salvation through Grace alone, there is Salvation
through Faith alone and there is Salvation through both Faith
and Grace. All of the reformers appear, to the best research I
can do, to base their salvation theory’s on Augustine's writings
on Paul or from Paul’s writings alone.
I struggle with this. You see, I have no idea what God will
ultimately do. I am not one to assume based on 2000 years old
inspired writings nor presume they still apply as originally
intended since they were not intended for humanity to become
what it has. That is my internal battle.
As I see it, no one, absolutely no one can speak for or to what
God will do with or to us as our spirit/soul passes on. We
have all made assumptions on the importance of Grace and Faith.
We even make assumptions and arguments on what each of those
means. So in deep reflection and prayer, I came to the only
answer I can come to and works for me and how I understand all
of this.
Live your life in such a way that you leave no doubt to God your
holiness, grace, and faith is/was according to his word. That
way you remove worry about how others interpret and the argument
over salvation because of grace and/or faith. I have always
believed life is to be lived for God’s glory, not for someone
else’s determination of what God’s glory and love is. You know
inside if you are doing this. So do it: Live your life for God.
[/quote]It would seem from your post that I am a very unique
individual...lol...to put it mildly
As I see it, it is NOT for us to "argue" over grace verses faith
or whether or not we need to do X to remain in Him...it is ours
to seek God with all we are and Him only and in that put our
trust. End of the story or the beginning of the story depending
on your pov. When we seek God with all our heart, soul, mind,
and strength and Him alone, He will show us everything else we
need in our lives and since His authority if final, that is all
we need.
That being said, there are ways to know if we have yet arrived
at the point in which we are assured of our salvation and that
way is the working of the Holy Spirit in our lives. There is a
huge list of things that the HS does for the believer, the short
version is the fruit of the spirit and if that is an ever
growing thing then it testifies to the work of the HS. That
being said, there are words there and many do not understand,
for example the Love there is agape and it is nothing at all
like world Love. So it is seeking God with our minds to learn
what those things mean so that we can identify them in our
lives.
There are lots of ways God works in our lives, our desire and
empowerment to be without sin is one, of course we grow more
like Christ, so that does NOT mean we are suddenly without any
sin...but maybe that is another topic.
So maybe this post is not complete without an example of
something God can do that we cannot without His power.
A little over 10 years ago, we suddenly lost our son to a freak
swimming accident. He was the glue so to speak of the kids and
each of the other kids had something serious that happened along
about the same time, causing them to run from God in different
ways, and us in the process...in essence we lost all of our kids
to one degree or other when our son died...and that is all I
will say about that at this time. But, going back to the first
few days of our sons death. There was a man from the church who
accused us of killing our son for believing in the trinity.
Here we were in deep grief, shock, trying to keep the kids
together, sending our eldest back to war the day after the
funeral, etc. and this guy feels justified to accuse us of
bringing God's judgement on ourselves through God killing our
son because we had a wrong belief about God...(wrong meaning not
matching his belief) Every fiber of our beings wanted to lash
out and destroy or at least hurt that man as badly as he hurt
us.
Well, as it so happened we didn't see him for a few weeks, when
we did, it was in a local store. My husband almost came to
blows with the man in the middle of the store. From the worlds
pov that would have been just...but God has a different plan, a
different form of justice that He wants us to adhere to, one
that is NOT in man to do without the power of the HS. So in
those moment, I asked God to show me HOW to LOVE this man, my
enemy that did so much harm and destruction to our family.
While still in the depths of grief and pain that he inflicted,
the HS in me calmed me and I was able to talk to the man till he
confessed he was wrong. He never tried to reconcile (he is dead
now) but he did confess he was wrong and that day I still marvel
at how God worked through me to do what was NOT in me to do. My
husband btw will tell you that that day he failed to trust God
to Love that man through him.
The working of the HS in our lives is the guarantee of salvation
(passages if needed but common so not thinking they are needed)
and it is when HE does things through us that are NOT possible
in the flesh that we know, that we, have done what it takes to
have assurance of salvation whether that is faith alone or grace
alone or a combination of all these things that come to us when
we SEEK Him with all we are and all we ever hope to be.
#Post#: 19007--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest116 Date: October 17, 2020, 2:07 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
I struggle with others casting dispersion on anyone's belief
especially at a time of grief. That was not taught in Chaplains
school, in seminary or any other place. We were taught that in
times of grief and stress it is God's love and embrace that is
needed, addressing anything in a corrective nature is a
CONVERSATION (not an accusation) for another time once you help
them through that time. So color me shocked and appalled even
if it worked out. It was and still is people like him that
drove me away and causes me great distress now.
All that said the just of what you said I find some I am not in
agreement with as I am not fully understanding. The foundation
of what you say, I find make sense. My issues has always been
we as people of God have found various ways to get wrapped up in
the details and to argue, disagree or in some way to come to a
conclusion that the way we learned is the "Only" way to
salvation, to God's grace to have proper faith. That is not
what Jesus was about and all of us who have taken the journey to
learn and understand his teachings.
Like I had said, it seems we all have chosen a position of what
we believe God wants us to do for Salvation and most believe
they have it right. So times I wonder if the true Salvation is
that we find a way to seek Salvation in his Glory and in his
holiness and the rest is just static noise. Just a thought and
only that.
Thank you lori for answering and you have provided me with
things to think on and to look into.
#Post#: 19009--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest24 Date: October 17, 2020, 4:20 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=11.msg19007#msg19007 date=1602961642]
I struggle with others casting dispersion on anyone's belief
especially at a time of grief. That was not taught in Chaplains
school, in seminary or any other place. We were taught that in
times of grief and stress it is God's love and embrace that is
needed, addressing anything in a corrective nature is a
CONVERSATION (not an accusation) for another time once you help
them through that time. So color me shocked and appalled even
if it worked out. It was and still is people like him that
drove me away and causes me great distress now.
All that said the just of what you said I find some I am not in
agreement with as I am not fully understanding. The foundation
of what you say, I find make sense. My issues has always been
we as people of God have found various ways to get wrapped up in
the details and to argue, disagree or in some way to come to a
conclusion that the way we learned is the "Only" way to
salvation, to God's grace to have proper faith. That is not
what Jesus was about and all of us who have taken the journey to
learn and understand his teachings.
Like I had said, it seems we all have chosen a position of what
we believe God wants us to do for Salvation and most believe
they have it right. So times I wonder if the true Salvation is
that we find a way to seek Salvation in his Glory and in his
holiness and the rest is just static noise. Just a thought and
only that.
Thank you lori for answering and you have provided me with
things to think on and to look into.
[/quote]I find myself smiling in agreement throughout your
response. to that point, let me share how I came to Christ.
At about six years old, my life was so out of control that I
knew I would never make it if something or someone didn't step
in. One night as I was "dreaming" of never waking up or if I
did wake up, my family would be gone, I came to the conclusion
that there had to be a creator since this world couldn't just
happen. If there was a creator, He/She/They/It would not create
something greater than He is and if nothing is greater, then all
I needed in order to survive was to become one with the creator
whomever that was....that night I prayed to a God I didn't know,
that if I was right, would He/She/It become so much a part of me
that it was impossible to tell where He began and I ended. From
that point on, God started teaching me about Him and my need to
reconcile with Him (I didn't even know there was such a thing as
sin at the time) etc.
Some years later I was sewing when my sister came in and laid on
my back. I asked her to move and she refused. I told her to
move and she refused. I took hold of her arms and set her off
me. She went running to my father crying that I scratched her
and showed him an old wound that was healing. My father went
nuts and took his belt and beat me for scratching my sister
(which I did not do). But you see, that day, the belt never
touched me. There was no sting from it's contact nor welts from
it hitting me. That day, Christ literally stood between me and
the belt that was directed at me. It was then that I took time
to look back and though my situation hadn't changed, God was
working in my life and took a kid that shouldn't have made it
and caused her to thrive.
So...all that to say, that you are right, a lot of it is about
our experiences. My experience tells me that
Jeremiah 29:13
King James Version
13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for
me with all your heart.
is true and the details He will work out so just trust Him
#Post#: 19074--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest116 Date: October 18, 2020, 7:57 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Today in an online church discussion group, humility came up.
It reminded me of another lesser-known of the discourses Jesus
gave. In scholarly settings, this is sometimes listed as a
discourse and sometimes as "just a parable." I think
considering in anything less than a discourse and teaching
lecture that has a parable as part of it is an injustice to
Jesus' teaching. So take the time to read through Luke 14.
All of this chapter equals the discourse. Comments and
discussion afterwards is gladly accepted and sought.
KJV Bible Verses from the Book of Luke
Chapter 14
14:1 And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of
the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they
watched him.
14:2 And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had
the dropsy.
14:3 And Jesus answering spake unto the lawyers and Pharisees,
saying, Is it lawful to heal on the sabbath day?
14:4 And they held their peace. And he took him, and healed him,
and let him go;
14:5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass
or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him
out on the sabbath day?
14:6 And they could not answer him again to these things.
14:7 And he put forth a parable to those which were bidden, when
he marked how they chose out the chief rooms; saying unto them.
14:8 When thou art bidden of any man to a wedding, sit not down
in the highest room; lest a more honourable man than thou be
bidden of him;
14:9 And he that bade thee and him come and say to thee, Give
this man place; and thou begin with shame to take the lowest
room.
14:10 But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest
room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee,
Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the
presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he
that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
14:12 Then said he also to him that bade him, When thou makest a
dinner or a supper, call not thy friends, nor thy brethren,
neither thy kinsmen, nor thy rich neighbours; lest they also bid
thee again, and a recompence be made thee.
14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed,
the lame, the blind:
14:14 And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense
thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the
just.
14:15 And when one of them that sat at meat with him heard these
things, he said unto him, Blessed is he that shall eat bread in
the kingdom of God.
14:16 Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper,
and bade many:
14:17 And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that
were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
14:18 And they all with one consent began to make excuse. The
first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must
needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
14:19 And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I
go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
14:20 And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I
cannot come.
14:21 So that servant came, and shewed his lord these things.
Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go
out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in
hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
14:22 And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast
commanded, and yet there is room.
14:23 And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the
highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house
may be filled.
14:24 For I say unto you, That none of those men which were
bidden shall taste of my supper.
14:25 And there went great multitudes with him: and he turned,
and said unto them,
14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and
mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea,
and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me,
cannot be my disciple.
14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not
down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to
finish it?
14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not
able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to
finish.
14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king,
sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with
ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty
thousand?
14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he
sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all
that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
14:34 Salt is good: but if the salt have lost his savour,
wherewith shall it be seasoned?
14:35 It is neither fit for the land, nor yet for the dunghill;
but men cast it out. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
#Post#: 19112--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: patrick jane Date: October 20, 2020, 12:04 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=11.msg18994#msg18994 date=1602910405]
Okay, I am going out on a limb and hope it starts a conversation
and not a conflict. I have heard and read about salvation.
There is salvation through Grace alone, there is Salvation
through Faith alone and there is Salvation through both Faith
and Grace. All of the reformers appear, to the best research I
can do, to base their salvation theory’s on Augustine's writings
on Paul or from Paul’s writings alone.
I struggle with this. You see, I have no idea what God will
ultimately do. I am not one to assume based on 2000 years old
inspired writings nor presume they still apply as originally
intended since they were not intended for humanity to become
what it has. That is my internal battle.
As I see it, no one, absolutely no one can speak for or to what
God will do with or to us as our spirit/soul passes on. We
have all made assumptions on the importance of Grace and Faith.
We even make assumptions and arguments on what each of those
means. So in deep reflection and prayer, I came to the only
answer I can come to and works for me and how I understand all
of this.
Live your life in such a way that you leave no doubt to God your
holiness, grace, and faith is/was according to his word. That
way you remove worry about how others interpret and the argument
over salvation because of grace and/or faith. I have always
believed life is to be lived for God’s glory, not for someone
else’s determination of what God’s glory and love is. You know
inside if you are doing this. So do it: Live your life for God.
[/quote]Excellent. As I read this I was following and my mind
went back to 2nd grade at St. George. I used to argue for once
saved always saved but that defies common sense actually. I now
believe salvation is a process and enduring with obedience is
key. Keeping the faith and not being shaken from the glorious
gospel of Christ.
So, one might say well it is a lifelong process. . . . But what
of those whose lives are cut short? I agree with you that we
can't say definitively what God will do with each and every
person/soul on an individual basis. I believe God must examine
each of us as He does throughout our lives, and that each
person's Judgement is unique and detailed. The Holy Bible is a
book of details, after all.
God can easily place us all one by one at the Judgement Seat Of
Christ and in an instant He knows every detail of ever thought
and action and motivation, every idle thought and hurtful word
and every good thing as well. I realized this at the age of
seven and I had a question for the priests and nuns.
I concluded that every person is different and must be judged
according to their own thoughts, words and actions because I
knew that God knows all things back then. At that young age I
decided that there must be counter that God uses so naturally I
wanted to know exactly how many sins gets you to hell !!!
I thought well, I just need to stay under that ultimate number
of sins that sends a person to hell. ;D :D Kids, I tell ya. I
was on to something though.
#Post#: 19117--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest116 Date: October 20, 2020, 3:22 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Generally, on Tuesday or Wednesday mornings, I try to go walk
the Labyrinth at a local church. It is in a beautiful, treed
setting so quiet and peaceful. So easy to get into my own head.
I was thinking about commonalities that various things inside
the different denominations have and I wondered, with so much in
common why do we have such large spaces between each other in
accepting beliefs. Of course, this led my mind down the rabbit
hole. It occurred to me; Jesus was a reformer. His original
intent was to reform the Church of his people. To take it back
in some areas close to Moses and David and progressive in other
areas. Jesus did not intend to start a whole new religion. The
same can be said for Luther. He did not intend to break away
from the Catholics. No, he wanted them to return to the roots
of the belief in Christ and God and away from the Papacy. He
did not have an actual issue with the existence of the Papacy,
but at that time in history, the Bishop of Rome was more
powerful on Earth than Christ or God. He felt that was wrong.
Calvin did not intend for a breakaway religion from Luther’s
breakaway, but he saw issues in the dogma and doctrine that had
drifted from what Lutheran had intended. There is a reoccurring
process here.
Based on what I am seeing we are at an epoch again where someone
will come forward and led us into a new direction in
Christianity. The problem I have is that it is going to be two
people or groups and in two different directions. This is
dangerous for Christianity’s survival. I hope and pray I am
wrong.
Just a humble opinion and observation
#Post#: 19719--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest116 Date: October 28, 2020, 8:52 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
How many know who Philo is and why he matters in biblical
studies?
I am just courious.
#Post#: 19723--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest8 Date: October 28, 2020, 9:42 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=11.msg19719#msg19719 date=1603936379]
How many know who Philo is and why he matters in biblical
studies?
I am just courious.
[/quote]
I have read some of His works.
Blade
#Post#: 19749--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest116 Date: October 29, 2020, 12:11 am
---------------------------------------------------------
Good to know I did not want to post something that sounded like
just babbling.
Let me start with the question of what two new testament books
were written for the purpose of counter Philo's writing and
influence on the progress of Christianity?
#Post#: 19931--------------------------------------------------
Re: Chaplain's Chat
By: guest116 Date: November 1, 2020, 9:39 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
The two books in the New Testament specifically written to
counter the writings and beliefs of Philo are Hebrews and
Colossians. Those in the early movement of Christianity were so
bothered by his writings and his attempt to bringGreek and Latin
influences into the teachings of Jesus they felt compelled to
write a complete book of response to his philosophy.
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