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#Post#: 17287--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: patrick jane Date: September 5, 2020, 12:50 pm
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[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=1027.msg16696#msg16696 date=1598512605]
Let us break this second discourse down a little more to start
with.
!0:1 I see this as the choosing and empowerment of the 12.
!0:2-4 is naming the 12
10:5 to 10:15 is the giving of the apostles short term goals.
Giving the their mission if you will
10:16 to 10:25 To me reads as the persecution of the disciples
10:26-33 To me this is the have no fear, I am with you part
10:34-36 Best labeled as division within the households.
10:37-39 Cost of discipleship
10:40-42 Rewards
11:1 This seems to me to be the actual conclusion to chapter 10
and the second discourse, but it is also used to start chapter
11.
A even more general break down would be
10:1 Choosing and empower
10:2-4 introduction of apostles
10:5-16 Short term goal/mission
10:17-23 Long term goals/mission
10:24-42 Characteristics and traits for all disciples to carry
out the mission Jesus charged them with.
and again 11:1 the conclusion.
There is my first steps in breaking this discourse down and
examining it.
Any feedback and thoughts are more than welcome
[/quote]I agree with your breakdown and Jesus covered everything
they might think about or experience as Apostles with the power
of the holy spirit. He warns them and encourages them and
confirms that He is the Son of God again and He is the only Way.
#Post#: 17300--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: guest116 Date: September 6, 2020, 12:26 am
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Let me go back a little and provided a general overview of
Matthew.
Again, just from my perspective.
First, understand the Gospel of Matthew is the Kingdom Gospel.
It is this Gospel more than the others that tell us of the
Kingdom of God. Explains God’s program, if you will, for the
present age, despite the Jewish rejection of his son as the
Messiah. I mean the Gospel was originally written for the
Jewish audience/reader. In its totality it is meant to assure
us that Jesus is alive and will return.
The work Kingdom or idea of it appears 54 times in this Gospel.
You will find Old Testament fulfillment passages in this Gospel.
I consider it the best bridge between the Old Testament and
the New Testament. Matthew mentions the Old Testament between
129 and 136 times, depending on the version of the Bible you
use. You also are introduced t to idea of the Church. The
concern for Gentiles is also expressed in this Gospel. Now more
specifically the Instruction to the 12, the Second Discourse, it
was meant specifically for the Jews.
#Post#: 17301--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: patrick jane Date: September 6, 2020, 3:48 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=1027.msg17300#msg17300 date=1599369971]
Let me go back a little and provided a general overview of
Matthew.
Again, just from my perspective.
First, understand the Gospel of Matthew is the Kingdom Gospel.
It is this Gospel more than the others that tell us of the
Kingdom of God. Explains God’s program, if you will, for the
present age, despite the Jewish rejection of his son as the
Messiah. I mean the Gospel was originally written for the
Jewish audience/reader. In its totality it is meant to assure
us that Jesus is alive and will return.
The work Kingdom or idea of it appears 54 times in this Gospel.
You will find Old Testament fulfillment passages in this Gospel.
I consider it the best bridge between the Old Testament and
the New Testament. Matthew mentions the Old Testament between
129 and 136 times, depending on the version of the Bible you
use. You also are introduced t to idea of the Church. The
concern for Gentiles is also expressed in this Gospel. Now more
specifically the Instruction to the 12, the Second Discourse, it
was meant specifically for the Jews.
[/quote]I agree although Paul's letters tell me more about the
OT than all four gospels combined, in my opinion. I am a
Pauline dispensational Bible student so I am very aware of the
intended audience all throughout the Bible. Or I try me best to
understand who what where when how etc. Rightly dividing. Was
the Body Of Christ introduced in Matthew like in Paul's
epistles?
#Post#: 17314--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: guest116 Date: September 6, 2020, 4:22 pm
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In what manner do you mean "the Body of Christ"? I think I know
but wish to make sure before forming a response.
#Post#: 17316--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: guest8 Date: September 6, 2020, 9:06 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=1027.msg17314#msg17314 date=1599427349]
In what manner do you mean "the Body of Christ"? I think I know
but wish to make sure before forming a response.
[/quote]
Will wait for the "Body of Christ" def. from PJ and your
response to PJ.
However, the Gospel of Jesus was not spoken until after the
death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. It was not even spoken
of in Matthew for the new dispensation of Grace began in Acts
1:1
On the other hand, The dispensation of the Law was over at the
beginning of John the Baptist.
and the Dispensation of the Kingdom of God began at this time
and only lasted while Jesus was preaching throughout.
Jesus preached the Kingdom of Heaven (Millennium) during the
first part of Matthew and only through Matthew are we told about
it. I believe that Jesus being Fully God and Fully man at birth
had abdicated his divine nature as long as he was a man on
earth. He actually believe the kingdom of Heaven was at hand and
if the Jews had accepted him we would have a very different
world today. Yet, the plan of GOD was not to let the Millennium
begin in the first century but rather in the far future. We have
been at 2000 years and holding for the millennium to get here.
Blade
#Post#: 17322--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: patrick jane Date: September 6, 2020, 11:56 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
good post
#Post#: 17323--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: patrick jane Date: September 7, 2020, 12:24 am
---------------------------------------------------------
[quote author=Chaplain Mark Schmidt
link=topic=1027.msg17314#msg17314 date=1599427349]
In what manner do you mean "the Body of Christ"? I think I know
but wish to make sure before forming a response.
[/quote]The Body Of Christ (BOC) is the church - we are the body
of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:12-27 KJV -
For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the
members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is
Christ.
13 [size=14pt]For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one
body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or
free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
14 For the body is not one member, but many.
15 If the foot shall say, Because I am not the hand, I am not of
the body; is it therefore not of the body?
16 And if the ear shall say, Because I am not the eye, I am not
of the body; is it therefore not of the body?
17 If the whole body were an eye, where were the hearing? If the
whole were hearing, where were the smelling?
18 But now hath God set the members every one of them in the
body, as it hath pleased him.
19 And if they were all one member, where were the body?
20 But now are they many members, yet but one body.
21 And the eye cannot say unto the hand, I have no need of thee:
nor again the head to the feet, I have no need of you.
22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be
more feeble, are necessary:
23 And those members of the body, which we think to be less
honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our
uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness.
24 For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the
body together, having given more abundant honour to that part
which lacked.
25 That there should be no schism in the body; but that the
members should have the same care one for another.
26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with
it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in
particular.[/size]
WHO IS “THE BRIDE OF CHRIST?”
by Shawn Brasseaux
HTML https://forwhatsaiththescriptures.org/2014/09/19/bride-of-christ/
Is the Church the Body of Christ “the Bride of Christ?” Many
denominationalists, and even some professing “Pauline
dispensationalists,” answer that question in the affirmative.
Beloved, let us search the Scriptures. We should not repeat what
we have heard in church all of our lives, without first
consulting the living and written Word of God. It is shocking to
learn that the Bible usually does not say what people often
presume it says.
Never once in the King James Bible do we find the term, “the
Bride of Christ.” That is a religious term, and frankly, it is a
core doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. Furthermore, never
once does the Bible refer to the Church the Body of Christ as
“the Bride of Christ.” This should indicate to us that it is
nothing more than a man-made concept, a tradition of men, aimed
at deceiving and robbing us of the clarity of God’s Word, and
furthering a man-made theological system. “Beware lest any man
spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the
tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not
after Christ” (Colossians 2:8).
We do find in our King James Bible the following phrases and
terms: “the marriage supper of the Lamb” (Revelation 19:7,9),
“the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of
heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband” (Revelation
21:2), and “the Lamb’s wife” (Revelation 21:9). A marriage is
certainly occurring in the closing chapters of the book of the
Revelation, but who is marrying whom? We should not rip these
verses out of their contexts and fabricate the identity of the
bride and the groom (unless, of course, we seek to advance a
denominational system rather than the simple teachings of
Scripture!).
In the following Old Testament prophets, JEHOVAH God clearly
referred to the nation Israel as His wife, and He her Husband:
Jeremiah 2:32: “Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her
attire? yet my people [Israel] have forgotten me days without
number.”
Jeremiah 3:14,20: “[14] Turn, O backsliding children, saith the
LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a
city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion: [20]
Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so
have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith
the LORD.”
Isaiah 54:5-6: “[5] For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of
hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The
God of the whole earth shall he be called. [6] For the LORD hath
called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a
wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.”
The book of Hosea recalls how JEHOVAH married the nation Israel
when He brought her out of Egyptian slavery (and made the Old
Covenant, Law, with them, in Exodus chapter 24). Hosea also
recounts how Israel became unfaithful to Him as a wife would
cheat on her husband. Israel polluted herself with the idols of
her pagan neighbors; she willfully went after other gods.
Eventually, God had to divorce Israel; essentially, He sent her
into Gentile captivity, exemplified most fully in the book of
Lamentations, when Jerusalem was destroyed 586 B.C.
Hosea 2:15-23 summarizes how JEHOVAH will forgive Israel of her
sins, restore her, remarry her, bring her back into her homeland
(the Promised Land), where she will be His earthly people
forever: “[15] And I will give her her vineyards from thence,
and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing
there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she
came up out of the land of Egypt. [16] And it shall be at that
day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi [“my
husband”]; and shalt call me no more Baali. [17] For I will take
away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no
more be remembered by their name. [18] And in that day will I
make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and with
the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground:
and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the
earth, and will make them to lie down safely. [19] And I will
betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me
in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in
mercies. [20] I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness:
and thou shalt know the LORD. [21] And it shall come to pass in
that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens,
and they shall hear the earth; [22] And the earth shall hear the
corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
[23] And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have
mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to
them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they
shall say, Thou art my God.”
Jeremiah chapter 31 explains how God will forgive Israel of her
sins: “[31] Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will
make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house
of Judah: [32] Not according to the covenant that I made with
their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring
them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake,
although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD.” Again,
JEHOVAH says that He was Israel’s husband.
God wanted the nation Israel to be His nation in the earth (see
Exodus 19:5-6; Psalm 37:11; Isaiah 2:1-4; Matthew 5:5;
Revelation 5:10; et al.). Israel is His earthly nation, and the
way God will rule over the earth is through redeemed Israel. The
planet Earth that Satan has polluted will one day be redeemed.
God will save the nation Israel and marry her to the land, the
Promised Land, the land of Canaan, thus marrying Himself to that
land as well.
Isaiah 62:1-5 proceeds to explain: “[1] For Zion’s sake will I
not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem’s sake I will not rest,
until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the
salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. [2] And the Gentiles
shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou
shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall
name. [3] Thou shalt also be a crown of glory in the hand of the
LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God. [4] Thou shalt
no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be
termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah [“my delight
is in her”], and thy land Beulah [“married”]: for the LORD
delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. [5] For as a
young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and
as the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God
rejoice over thee.”
So, to summarize the above Old Testament passages, Jesus Christ
will return to Earth one day, to restore the nation Israel, to
redeem her and make her His earthly people (the New Covenant of
Jeremiah 31:31-34, Romans 11:26-29, Hebrews 8:8-13, and Hebrews
10:15-17). At that time, JEHOVAH God will fulfill the Abrahamic
Covenant (Genesis 12:1-3) to evangelize Gentiles through Israel,
the Palestinian Covenant (Genesis 15:18-21) to give Israel her
land, and the Davidic Covenant (2 Samuel 7:12-16) to give Israel
her literal, physical, visible kingdom after David’s royal
bloodline. The way Jesus Christ will restore Earth unto Himself
is by using the nation Israel in her kingdom (called the
“1000-year reign,” “Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ,” “kingdom
of heaven,” to name a few titles). These passages interpret the
marriage situation in the book of the Revelation (the verses we
mentioned at the beginning of this study). Let us return to
these verses in Revelation and comment on them in light of what
we read from the Old Testament prophets. Notice how that, rather
than fabricating something to explain Revelation’s “marriage”
passages, we have consulted what God wrote centuries prior, so
we are on solid footing when we explain John’s words in
Revelation!
Please read Revelation 19:7-9: “[7] Let us be glad and rejoice,
and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come,
and his wife hath made herself ready. [8] And to her was granted
that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for
the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. [9] And he saith
unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the
marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the
true sayings of God.”
Considering the Old Testament prophets’ words about Israel
waiting for JEHOVAH to remarry her, who would most likely be the
“wife” of the Lamb here in Revelation? All we have to do is
remember what God’s Word said in other books, and the answer
becomes clear. The next several verses discuss Jesus Christ
returning to planet Earth, fighting Israel’s enemies; the
following chapters elaborate on Jesus Christ reigning on the
Earth with the nation Israel. The “saints” of Revelation 19:8
would be those believing Jews that survived the seven-year
Tribulation period; they will form redeemed Israel, the Jews who
will inherit the covenants and promises made to Israel’s
patriarchs through the Old Testament. Friends, the book of the
Revelation has nothing to do with us. It was written by John, an
apostle of Israel (Revelation 1:1; cf. Galatians 2:9), and the
book of the Revelation is to and about Israel: it does not
concern us.
In Revelation 21:1-4,9-10 we read: “[1] And I saw a new heaven
and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were
passed away; and there was no more sea. [2] And I John saw the
holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. [3] And I heard a
great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God
is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his
people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
[4] And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there
shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither
shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed
away. [9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which
had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked
with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the
Lamb’s wife. [10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a
great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy
Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,…”
If the Bible says, “I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s
wife,” and the next vision is that of “that great city, the holy
Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,” what would be the
“Lamb’s wife” here? It would the New Jerusalem, the Holy
Jerusalem, the Jerusalem currently in heaven (Hebrews 12:18-24)
that will come down to Earth; it was this heavenly Jerusalem
that Abraham and the other Old Testament saints anticipated
(Hebrews 11:10,16,39,40). Overall, the idea of the marriage
between JEHOVAH and Israel is actually Him marrying Israel to
the land and thus marrying Himself to her land. It is not
difficult to understand if we are open to God’s Word correcting
our distorted views courtesy of religious tradition.
THREE COMMON OBJECTIONS ANSWERED
At this point, three common objections are raised. The first is,
“Did not Paul liken our relationship to Jesus Christ as a wife
married to her husband, in Ephesians chapter 5?” The second,
“Did not Paul say that we were married to Jesus Christ in Romans
chapter 7?” The third, “Did not Paul say that we need to be a
pure virgin for Jesus Christ in 2 Corinthians chapter 11?” We
believe the Bible has answers to these questions, and we would
be more than eager to share those verses. However, we must be
mindful not to read something into the Bible text (which is what
denominationalists are trained to do).
Ephesians 5:25-33 says: “[25] Husbands, love your wives, even as
Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; [26] That
he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by
the word, [27] That he might present it to himself a glorious
church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that
it should be holy and without blemish. [28] So ought men to love
their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth
himself. [29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but
nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: [30]
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
[31] For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and
shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
[32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and
the church. [33] Nevertheless let every one of you in particular
so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she
reverence her husband.”
Indeed, the Bible does teach that the marriage relationship
between the husband and his wife should reflect and resemble,
the loving, tender, selfless union between the Lord Jesus Christ
(our Head; Ephesians 5:23; Colossians 1:18; Colossians 2:19) and
us (His Body; 1 Corinthians 12:12-13,27; Ephesians 1:22-23;
Colossians 1:24). However, we never read in the above passage
that we are Jesus Christ’s “wife” or His “bride.” We have
already seen the Scriptures’ testimony that Israel is the wife
of JEHOVAH (the Lord Jesus Christ)—does JEHOVAH have two wives
or does He have one? The Bible calls Israel JEHOVAH’S “wife,”
but it never calls us His wife; if words mean anything (and we
have no denominational agenda to promote), we conclude that we
are not JEHOVAH’S wife but rather that Israel is His wife.
Ephesians chapter 5 is describing how marriage is designed to
function, and the way to understand the marriage relationship is
to see how Jesus Christ and His Body (us) interact with each
other—the respective roles, the attitudes of each toward one
another, et cetera.
Romans 7:1-4 says: “[1] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to
them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a
man as long as he liveth? [2] For the woman which hath an
husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth;
but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her
husband. [3] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be
married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but
if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she
is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4]
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by
the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even
to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth
fruit unto God.”
Certainly, Romans 7:4 says that we are “married” (present tense)
to Jesus Christ. In that case, Revelation would certainly not
apply to us; Revelation describes a future marriage! The Church
the Body of Christ is certainly joined (“married”) to Jesus
Christ—otherwise, the members of the Body would not be saved
unto eternal life! All Romans chapter 7 is discussing is how we
are free from the Law, dead to the law of sin and dead works,
not bound to live the Christian life in our flesh and energy. We
are joined to Jesus Christ, and it is His life, not our life,
His performance, not our performance (further discussed in
chapter 8). To use this passage to teach that we are the “Bride
of Christ” is to read something into the text. Romans chapter 7
is not designed to teach marriage in the Dispensation of
Grace—that would be 1 Corinthians chapter 7.
In 2 Corinthians 11:1-4, we read: “[1] Would to God ye could
bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. [2]
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have
espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste
virgin to Christ. [3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the
serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should
be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. [4] For if
he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not
preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not
received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye
might well bear with him.”
Dear friends, here again, we read no terminology about us being
the “Bride of Christ.” What Paul is doing in verse 2 is using a
simile, likening us to being spiritually (doctrinally) pure as a
chaste virgin would be sexually pure. False teachers had crept
into Corinth, and throughout this chapter (11), we read about
how the Corinthians enjoyed being misled. Paul warned them that
he was jealous over them with a godly jealousy—he did not want
some false religious system to corrupt them. He wanted them to
abandon and avoid false religion (see 2 Corinthians 6:14-18). In
the above verses, we read how Satan would use the same tactics
he used to mislead Eve, to mislead us. Satan would quote Bible,
but misquote it, ignoring the dispensational layout (see Psalm
91:11-12; Matthew 4:6; Luke 4:10-11). The Devil would cause us
to follow “another Jesus” (as in His earthly ministry; 2
Corinthians 5:16) instead of following the Jesus Christ whom
Paul preached (His heavenly ministry, “Jesus Christ according to
the revelation of the mystery;” Romans 16:25). Satan would cause
us to follow “another spirit” (as in the “spirit of bondage,”
law; Romans 8:15; Galatians 5:1-5) and ignore the spirit that
Paul preached (grace; Romans 6:14-15). The Devil would cause us
to follow “another gospel” (as in the Gospel of the Kingdom;
Matthew 9:35; cf. Matthew 4:17; Matthew 10:5-7) but to ignore
the Gospel of Grace that Paul preached (Acts 20:24; Romans 2:16;
Galatians 2:2; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4). The Church the Body of
Christ is in such shambles doctrinally today, in such confusion,
because it has allowed Satan and his policy of evil (religious
tradition) to corrupt them. Most Christians today are not
“rightly dividing the word of truth” as 2 Timothy 2:15 says;
they are mixing the dispensations in God’s Word and making Bible
study burdensome. I know; I used to be a part of that system
myself!
CONCLUSION
The Bible never calls the Body of Christ “the Bride of Christ”
(that is religious tradition, and, beloved, it will profit us
nothing in eternity). To use a concept that relates exclusively
to Israel and use it to apply to us, is to place ourselves on a
slippery slope of confusing ourselves with Israel, and we run
the risk of falling into the trap of the damnable doctrine of
“Replacement Theology!” (See our related study at the end of
this article.)
However, the Bible does say that Jesus Christ will marry
someone. This is what we want to focus on; we ignore the
religious tradition. Believing Jews who will survive the
seven-year Tribulation, Daniel’s 70th week, will stand on Earth
and see Jesus Christ return at His Second Coming (see Zechariah
12:10 and Zechariah 13:8-9). These believing Jews will be
married to Jesus Christ (JEHOVAH God the Son in the flesh) at
His Second Coming—Revelation 19:7 says, “the marriage of the
Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.” (We deal
with the “Marriage Supper of the Lamb” in another study; see the
link at the end of this article.)
According to Revelation 21:9-10, the “Lamb’s wife” is the New
Jerusalem, the Heavenly Jerusalem—Israel’s redeemed capital
city, and her Promised Land—which will come down from heaven and
land on Earth. By marrying the nation Israel, the Lord Jesus
Christ (the JEHOVAH of the Old Testament) will marry Himself to
her land, the Promised Land. These are the concepts being
advanced regarding the marriage of Revelation chapters 19 and
21. We can either believe the testimony of the Scriptures, or we
can continue with our church tradition. I prefer to believe God,
and let His critics be the liars (Romans 3:4). You?
#Post#: 17326--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: guest116 Date: September 7, 2020, 5:40 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Okay, you are going to have to give me a day to diguest this and
do research in Matthew. That is allot to work through and
refresh my memory.
#Post#: 17448--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: guest116 Date: September 10, 2020, 1:18 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
Still working on a reply that is appropriate for the amount of
information you provided.
The short answer is yes and no Matthew addresses the body of
Christ, but not in an as open and obvious way as the scriptures
you quoted. The issue I have is you are quoting scripture that
supports Paul's BOC ideals, and Matthew during the five
discourses are discussing Jesus' teaching, there was no BOC per
se to refer to at that time. Just the possibilities of it in
the very near future. This makes finding a direct reference
very difficult. However, that said I believe once I finish
reviewing and comparing, you will see that even Jesus knew these
teachings of Paul in the future would be important.
Again just my humble opinion. I am assuming your scripture
quotes are all from the KJV?
#Post#: 17449--------------------------------------------------
Re: The Five Discourses of Jesus
By: guest116 Date: September 10, 2020, 2:30 pm
---------------------------------------------------------
My short answer is NO Matthew, in fact none of the four Gospels
address the BOC directly. You can make a case for indirect
hints for it to come later on, but even that is a stretch.
In your reply on the Body of Christ (BOC) you quote 1
Corinthians 12:12-27, Colossians 2, Revelation 19:7,9,
Revelation 21:2, Revelation 21:9, Jeremiah 2:32, Jeremiah
3:14, 20, Isaiah 54:5-6, Hosea 2:15-23, Jeremiah 31, and many
many more.
My first statement from purely academic viewpoint and not from a
purely faithful believer is that Matthew is a Canonical Gospel
and almost all the quoted scriptures are canonical books not
deemed Gospels. More or less, they are in support of and the
stories leading up to and after the Canonical Gospels. The
Gospels are always given precedents over the rest. We all know
no one book is more important that the other though. They just
have different parts of the complete story to tell in the
totality of the founding and understanding of the Christian
religion.
So, let me break down some basics on your reply. There is
approximately 63 scriptures quoted. Of those 15 were from the
Old Testament, and of the OT three were from the Pentateuch
(first five books of the OT) part of the OT. There was 48 from
the New Testament, with five being quotes of scriptures from
Matthew.
The quoted scriptures from Matthew are: 4:6 4:17 5:5 9:35
10:5-7
Your question to me was: Was the Body Of Christ introduced in
Matthew like in Paul's epistles?
So back to the short answer – No. I am in agreement with Blade,
the concept of the BOC would not been introduced in the Gospels
just yet.
These are the quoted scriptures from Matthew in your reply:
4:6
down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge
concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up,
lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
4:17
for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
5:5
9:35
in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom,
and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
10:5
Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the
Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6
10:7
hand.
As you can see, even though Matthew is quoted in your reply,
there is no reference in any manner to the BOC. The closest I
found was Matthew 16:17-19 and 18:17. These are the mentions of
the Church and Peter. Not a direct mention of the Church and
the BOC as you, I believe, have implied as I understand what you
are asking.
I will include a quoted text from a doctrine journal just for a
little food for thought type. While I do not agree with all
Pauline dogma on the BOC, I think it has a valid time and place,
as well as any other theology out there. I have always
struggled with BOC so I admit that this reply is probably
lacking in actually answering your question.
Three major problems exist for the traditional view. The first
is God explicitly stated through the apostle Paul that the
Church, the Body of Christ, was a “secret,”
(μυστήριον). This
presents a serious problem for the traditional view because Paul
made this declaration long after Pentecost.
The second problem confirms the first point. No Biblical
evidence exists to support the view that anyone at Pentecost
recognized that the Church, i.e., the Body of Christ, had come
into existence. On the contrary, the Scriptural evidence
indicates at Pentecost the Twelve knew nothing about the Body of
Christ. Peter only addressed Jews. But Paul declared the Church
was that organism in which Jew and Gentile are equal. Peter
obviously did not know this else he would have addressed
Gentiles. Furthermore, only Paul wrote about the Body of Christ
(Romans 12.5; 1 Corinthians 10.16, 17, 12.12, 13, 18, 25, 27;
Ephesians 1.23, 2.16, 3.6, 4.4, 12, 16, 5.30; Colossians 1.18,
2.17, 19, 3.15). Such terminology is absent from the Gospels and
the letters of Peter, James, John, Jude.
Hope this is at least a reasonable reply.
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